Data Renegades

Ep. #11, Contrarian Bets and AI Skepticism with Michael Stonebraker

On episode 11 of Data Renegades, CL Kao sits down with Michael Stonebraker, legendary database pioneer and creator of Ingres and Postgres. They explore the origins of modern relational databases, why specialized systems outperform one-size-fits-all platforms, and what today’s AI hype gets wrong about enterprise data. Stonebraker also shares hard-earned lessons on startups, research, and staying relevant over five decades in tech.

Ep. #10, Data Modeling Matters Most with Toby Mao

On episode 10 of Data Renegades, CL Kao and Dori Wilson sit down with Toby Mao. They explore how real-world data problems at Netflix and Airbnb led to the creation of SQLGlot and SQLMesh, and why data modeling remains the hardest challenge in data engineering. The conversation also dives into how AI is reshaping engineering workflows, without replacing the need for strong architectural thinking.

Ep. #9, Radical Accountability in Software with Wes McKinney

On episode 9 of Data Renegades, CL Kao and Dori Wilson sit down with Wes McKinney, creator of Pandas and co-creator of Apache Arrow. They explore how AI coding agents are reshaping software development, why data infrastructure remains surprisingly resistant to automation, and what semantic layers mean for the future of analytics. Wes also shares bold predictions about “radical accountability” in software and the changing bar for startups.

Ep. #8, One Human Plus Agents with Scott Breitenother

On episode 8 of Data Renegades, CL Kao and Dori Wilson sit down with Scott Breitenother to explore how AI is reshaping the modern data stack and redefining the role of data teams. They discuss the evolution from spreadsheets to autonomous agents, the realities of data democratization, and why future workflows may revolve around one human working alongside multiple AI assistants. The conversation blends practical lessons from building Brooklyn Data and Kilo Code with forward-looking predictions about the next wave of data tooling.

Ep. #7, Truth-Seeking Data Systems with Bryan Bischof

On episode 7 of Data Renegades, CL Kao and Dori Wilson sit down with Bryan Bischof to explore his journey from pure mathematics to building real-world ML systems. They dig into recommender systems, surprising data bugs, and why truth-seeking should guide data teams. The conversation also covers modern data tools, visualization limits, and the realities of “self-serve” analytics.