KIND CURIOSITY

S2E17: Who Gets Remembered? What Researchers Are Teaching Us About Slavery, the Holocaust, and National Memory

17 min · 11. maj 2026
episode S2E17: Who Gets Remembered? What Researchers Are Teaching Us About Slavery, the Holocaust, and National Memory cover

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In this solo episode, I reflect on my conversation with Dr. Joandi Hartendorp and the bigger questions her research raises about how nations tell the truth about difficult history. Her work on Dutch Holocaust and Slavery education reveals how some atrocities. That contrast opens a larger conversation about how the United States teaches slavery, the Holocaust, and Black history. Joandi Hartendorp — Were we “good” or “bad”? Common ground in Dutch Slavery and Holocaust education [https://research.uvh.nl/nl/publications/were-we-good-or-bad-common-ground-in-dutch-slavery-and-holocaust-/] Michael Rothberg — Multidirectional Memory: Remembering the Holocaust in the Age of Decolonization [https://complit.ucla.edu/book/multidirectional-memory/] Susan Neiman — Learning from the Germans: Race and the Memory of Evil [https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/27/books/review/learning-from-the-germans-susan-neiman.html] Daina Ramey Berry & Kali Nicole Gross — A Black Women’s History of the United States [https://www.beacon.org/A-Black-Womens-History-of-the-United-States-P1524.aspx] Keisha N. Blain — Set the World on Fire: Black Nationalist Women and the Global Struggle for Freedom [https://www.si.edu/object/set-world-fire-black-nationalist-women-and-global-struggle-freedom-keisha-n-blain:siris_sil_1094166]

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25. maj 202649 min
episode S2E17: Who Gets Remembered? What Researchers Are Teaching Us About Slavery, the Holocaust, and National Memory artwork

S2E17: Who Gets Remembered? What Researchers Are Teaching Us About Slavery, the Holocaust, and National Memory

In this solo episode, I reflect on my conversation with Dr. Joandi Hartendorp and the bigger questions her research raises about how nations tell the truth about difficult history. Her work on Dutch Holocaust and Slavery education reveals how some atrocities. That contrast opens a larger conversation about how the United States teaches slavery, the Holocaust, and Black history. Joandi Hartendorp — Were we “good” or “bad”? Common ground in Dutch Slavery and Holocaust education [https://research.uvh.nl/nl/publications/were-we-good-or-bad-common-ground-in-dutch-slavery-and-holocaust-/] Michael Rothberg — Multidirectional Memory: Remembering the Holocaust in the Age of Decolonization [https://complit.ucla.edu/book/multidirectional-memory/] Susan Neiman — Learning from the Germans: Race and the Memory of Evil [https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/27/books/review/learning-from-the-germans-susan-neiman.html] Daina Ramey Berry & Kali Nicole Gross — A Black Women’s History of the United States [https://www.beacon.org/A-Black-Womens-History-of-the-United-States-P1524.aspx] Keisha N. Blain — Set the World on Fire: Black Nationalist Women and the Global Struggle for Freedom [https://www.si.edu/object/set-world-fire-black-nationalist-women-and-global-struggle-freedom-keisha-n-blain:siris_sil_1094166]

11. maj 202617 min
episode Were We “Good” or “Bad”?: Dutch Holocaust and Slavery Education with Dr. Joandi Hartendorp artwork

Were We “Good” or “Bad”?: Dutch Holocaust and Slavery Education with Dr. Joandi Hartendorp

In this episode, I talk with Dr. Joandi Hartendorp. She is a researcher, educator, and advisor whose PhD at the University of Humanistic Studies in Utrecht compares Dutch Holocaust education with Dutch slavery education. In her dissertation [chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://research.uvh.nl/ws/portalfiles/portal/58761801/Common_ground_in_Holocaust_and_Slavery_education_Joandi_Hartendorp.pdf], Were we “good” or “bad”? Common ground in Dutch Slavery and Holocaust education, she asks how textbooks, teachers, and commemorations shape collective memory of “sensitive history”—and how they often minimize Dutch perpetration in both cases. We speak about our shared experience of being Black and raising our daughters in a world that seems them as the least of the "others." The most surprising aspect of this conversation for me was the mention of Black Pete (Zwarte Piet) and how for years of her young life she did not realize it was racist. I will be sure to have her back to discuss the progress of making Queen Nikkolah day, the celebration of the land.

27. apr. 20261 h 17 min