How did it make sense?

Ep 28: Nathalie Lasselin - “You were nearly hit by a tug. They didn’t see us.”

On today’s episode of How did it make sense I am joined by Nathalie Lasselin, a filmmaker, technical diver, explorer, and someone who dives where most people wouldn’t even go looking. Nathalie’s story starts with an ambitious expedition called Urban Water Odyssey, a 44-mile dive along the St. Lawrence River with a large support team. The plan was meticulous, the team trained, and everything seemed under control, until the dive ran late, the river got busy, and night fell. When Nat surfaced, she was struck by a boat, and only then did the team realise a tugboat was approaching. They pushed her out of the way, but the near-miss revealed a gap in the operation: no dedicated lookout, broken communication, and the kind of task overload that makes obvious risks invisible. What makes this episode powerful is not just the incident, but the deeper learning behind it. Nat breaks down how the expedition’s delays created cascading failures, how people’s perception of risk changes under pressure, and how the team culture their focus, trust, and ability to respond saved her life. This conversation is a reminder that you can’t design risk out of real-world operations; you can only build resilience and a team that can fail safely. Find Nathalie here: Website : www.aquanath.com [http://www.aquanath.com] Non profit organisation : www.aquasubterra.org [http://www.aquasubterra.org] Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/NathLasselinofficialpage/ [https://www.facebook.com/NathLasselinofficialpage/] Linkedin: https://ca.linkedin.com/in/nathalie-lasselin-72419721/en [https://ca.linkedin.com/in/nathalie-lasselin-72419721/en] Instagram: @aquanathstudios Vimeo: https://vimeo.com/aquanath [https://vimeo.com/aquanath] CHAPTERS 0:00 Start of the story: Urban Water Odyssey 1:20 The dive runs late and conditions worsen 2:40 Nat surfaces and is hit by a boat 4:00 The tugboat appears: “They didn’t see us” 5:20 What went wrong: no lookout & communication failure 7:00 The role of team culture in the rescue 8:40 The bigger lesson: resilience and failing safely 10:00 Recommended reads and mindset resources Connect with Gareth: Human in the System [https://www.humaninthesystem.co.uk/] Transforming teams. Unlocking human potential. Using principles from Human Factors (HF), High-Reliability Organisations (HRO), and Human and Organisational Performance (HOP), we develop and deliver highly immersive and impactful programmes using the High-Velocity Learning LAB (HVLL) concept. We give you the know-how, the tools and the support to make results stick and empower your people to achieve the extraordinary. We help you answer the question "How do we uncover those hidden stories in our organisation?" Find us on Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@HITS-HDIMS [https://www.youtube.com/@HITS-HDIMS]

Ep 27. Steve Smith - “How could you have tied the wrong anchor knot?”

Today on How Did It Make Sense? I’m joined by Steve Smith, a kindred spirit and expert in outdoor education and safety. Steve has spent decades in the outdoor education and safety world, worked across wilderness programs, Outward Bound, and the Student Conservation Association, helping people navigate the tricky balance between risk and learning. He’s also the author of Safety Science for Outdoor and Experiential Education, where he unpacks how we can learn from near misses, mistakes, and everyday operational decisions. In this episode, Steve shares a story that had me holding my breath: an experienced climbing instructor almost leaned back over a 100-foot cliff on a slipknot instead of a proper anchor. The near-miss was caught just in time, but, the story is far more than about one careless moment. We unpack what created the situation, how organisational decisions, over-engineered safety measures, and human nature all collide in high-stakes environments. Resources mentioned / Connect with Steve Safety Science Book on Kindle [https://gmlnk.com/api/v1/track/link/click/691cc36cede40620b37088fa/1767654833851/?link=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FSafety-Science-Outdoor-Experiential-Education-ebook%2Fdp%2FB0G99BD12G%2Fref%3Dtmm_kin_swatch_0%3F_encoding%3DUTF8%26dib_tag%3Dse%26dib%3DeyJ2IjoiMSJ9.ptQiBM0de3ek36ONagCovNY21Qbvq2az29OsWtprdFVem7a_9acY-XYh-7Rdcj_tDzGlRQ-x5eoN-TyqI9aH1AlMWGb3GtJaB1McFEG7hB6XX_n9fmNbuuOj8uYD_XZ0i2g0Nj9lURfsSDS2NfINOTlohaSXov5hnLTRl6D-M_cQRDOrVBnkanbyV0duXaDEBs3asGwnkfqcM7k_av3V4v2eZopodMVeYg0dpHunGEg.ulEvLPnpt6RWbpt2aiNq14nrpcROKndszea4FBDh_cI%26qid%3D1767654747%26sr%3D8-1] and Amazon [https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=9798218878870&crid=11SN3MYCZPX1F&sprefix=%2Caps%2C252&ref=nb_sb_noss_2]. His Beneficial Risk book is available here [https://sagamorepub.com/products/beneficial-risks-1]. Online classes [https://gmlnk.com/api/v1/track/link/click/691cc36cede40620b37088fa/1767654884660/?link=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.outdoorrisk.com%2Fsafety-science] associated with the chapters of the book LinkedIN [https://gmlnk.com/api/v1/track/link/click/691cc36cede40620b37088fa/1767654987877/?link=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Fexperiential%2F] and website [https://gmlnk.com/api/v1/track/link/click/691cc36cede40620b37088fa/1767654956989/?link=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.outdoorrisk.com%2F] Connect with Gareth: Human in the System [https://www.humaninthesystem.co.uk/] Transforming teams. Unlocking human potential. Using principles from Human Factors (HF), High-Reliability Organisations (HRO), and Human and Organisational Performance (HOP), we develop and deliver highly immersive and impactful programmes using the High-Velocity Learning LAB (HVLL) concept. We give you the know-how, the tools and the support to make results stick and empower your people to achieve the extraordinary. We help you answer the question "How do we uncover those hidden stories in our organisation?" Contact us here [https://www.humaninthesystem.co.uk/contact]

Ep 26. Sabine Fürst - "She's just a midwife"

In this episode, I’m joined by Sabine, a former midwife and flight attendant turned consultant, as we explore the hidden human factors at play in healthcare, specifically in the labour ward. Sabine’s research shines a light on the power dynamics between midwives and obstetricians, how professional identity shapes behaviour, and why normality and safety are not the same thing. We discuss how discourse, accountability and silos influence teamwork, often leaving women disempowered despite the best intentions of professionals. Whether you work in healthcare, safety or corporate teams, there is so much to take from this conversation about human factors and how culture is co-created. Sabine shares the personal story behind the phrase ‘she’s just a midwife’, how it ignited her research, and why language like this matters. We also talk about the creative ways professionals navigate control and power, why team education still comes too late, and how cross-disciplinary conversations can help break silos. Connect with Sabine: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sabine-f%C3%BCrst-1487891a8/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/sabine-f%C3%BCrst-1487891a8/] Resources Mentioned 1. The Lancet Editorial on Empowering Women During Childbirth 2. Read it here [https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/issue/vol406no10498/PIIS0140-6736(25)X0027-1#closeFullCover] 3. WHO: Labour Care Guide – The Next Generation Partograph 4. Read the publication [https://iris.who.int/bitstream/handle/10665/380666/9789240080591-eng.pdf?sequence=1] Connect with Gareth: Human in the System [https://www.humaninthesystem.co.uk/] Transforming teams. Unlocking human potential. Using principles from Human Factors (HF), High-Reliability Organisations (HRO), and Human and Organisational Performance (HOP), we develop and deliver highly immersive and impactful programmes using the High-Velocity Learning LAB (HVLL) concept. We give you the know-how, the tools and the support to make results stick and empower your people to achieve the extraordinary. We help you answer the question "How do we uncover those hidden stories in our organisation?" Contact us here [https://www.humaninthesystem.co.uk/contact] Find us on Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@HITS-HDIMS [https://www.youtube.com/@HITS-HDIMS]

Ep 25. Justin Featherstone - Now the rope is cut, I am truly alone in this crevasse. What happens now?

In this powerful episode of How Did It Make Sense?, I speak with Justin Featherstone MC leadership consultant, former Army officer, and mountaineer. Justin shares an extraordinary account of survival after being trapped in a crevasse on Mont Blanc, this conversation dives deep into what happens when the unthinkable occurs and how leadership, trust, and human connection make all the difference. Justin reflects on the life-or-death moment his climbing rope was severed, leaving him suspended upside down in the ice, and how a memory from combat (where kindness and accountability intersected) gave him the will to survive. We explore how true leadership is built not through hierarchy, but through vulnerability, courage, and compassionate decision-making. This episode is essential listening for those in the health and safety space, leadership development, and anyone curious about how people truly behave under pressure. Books/resources Nancy Kline – A time to think [https://www.amazon.co.uk/Time-Think-Listening-Ignite-Human/dp/0706377451/ref=asc_df_0706377451?mcid=ebf16b7012ee3a8291a38b03c7ba4cfb&tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=697287344587&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6494878109049982774&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9044885&hvtargid=pla-466245171593&psc=1&gad_source=1] - Time to think: listening to ignite the mind. Cassell Illustrated. Professor Michael West – The Kings Fund Leadership [https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/insight-and-analysis/videos/michael-west-leadership]- The King’s Fund (2019, October 25) Rosalinda Torres – What it takes to be a leader TED Talk [https://www.ted.com/talks/roselinde_torres_what_it_takes_to_be_a_great_leader/transcript] Connect with Justin on LinkedIn linkedin.com/in/justin-featherstone-mc-frgs-frai-9b958b6 [https://www.linkedin.com/in/justin-featherstone-mc-frgs-frai-9b958b6] Connect with Gareth: Human in the System [https://www.humaninthesystem.co.uk/] Transforming teams. Unlocking human potential. Using principles from Human Factors (HF), High-Reliability Organisations (HRO), and Human and Organisational Performance (HOP), we develop and deliver highly immersive and impactful programmes using the High-Velocity Learning LAB (HVLL) concept. We give you the know-how, the tools and the support to make results stick and empower your people to achieve the extraordinary. We help you answer the question "How do we uncover those hidden stories in our organisation?" Contact us here [https://www.humaninthesystem.co.uk/contact] Find us on Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@HITS-HDIMS [https://www.youtube.com/@HITS-HDIMS]

Ep 24. Marcus Dimbleby - You hit the aircraft crash alarm! Why did you do that?!

What happens when someone tests your emergency plan—and no one’s ready? In this episode of How Did It Make Sense?, I speak with Marcus Dimbleby, ex-RAF Wing Commander and now partner at Effective Direction, about the moment he walked into an ops room and triggered the crash alarm on purpose. We unpack how critical thinking, red teaming, and stress testing systems reveal the hidden flaws in safety procedures, leadership cultures, and team behaviours. It’s a story that moves from chaos to commendation, with lessons every business leader and risk manager should hear. Connect with Marcus: 1. Marcus Dimbleby on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcusdimbleby] 2. effectivedirection.com [https://www.effectivedirection.com] Resources Recommended: 1. Big Things Fast [https://www.bigthingsfast.com/] by Jose Corella and Marcus Dimbleby 2. Gary Klein [https://www.gary-klein.com/welcome] – recognition-primed decision making and naturalistic decision making. 3. Daniel Kahneman – Thinking, Fast and Slow [https://www.bigthingsfast.com/] Connect with Gareth: Human in the System [https://www.humaninthesystem.co.uk/] Transforming teams. Unlocking human potential. Using principles from Human Factors (HF), High-Reliability Organisations (HRO), and Human and Organisational Performance (HOP), we develop and deliver highly immersive and impactful programmes using the High-Velocity Learning LAB (HVLL) concept. We give you the know-how, the tools and the support to make results stick and empower your people to achieve the extraordinary. We help you answer the question "How do we uncover those hidden stories in our organisation?" Contact us here [https://www.humaninthesystem.co.uk/contact] Find us on Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@HITS-HDIMS [https://www.youtube.com/@HITS-HDIMS]