S5 E10 Fallen Society: Hallie Rubenhold’s THE FIVE

S5E11 Falling & Bouncing Back: Gossip Girl with Cecily von Ziegesar

If you’re gonna do GOSSIP GIRL, you gotta reveal the gossip girl herself:  Cecily von Ziegasar. In her FIRST podcast interview ever (XOXO!!!) Cecily tells IWAW what it was like to write for teens back when no one else was writing for teens. In addition to many personally inspiring experiences, Cecily shares the classic novel that helped her write GOSSIP GIRL.  And guess what?  That 1920 novel features a fallen woman!  In Season 5, we’ve gone from MUCH ADO, in which Hero finds her virginal reputation ruined by gossip, to GOSSIP GIRL, in which characters swim in gossip.  Amidst the constantly changing currents, the girls rise, sink, and swim to the surface again.  Does GOSSIP GIRL demonstrate female resilience?  Does it mean the fallen woman trope has died?  Or does it mean fallen women are society’s main spectacle? This discussion mostly focuses on the book series from the early 2000’s, but we do touch on the television series at several points.  And, yes, we do talk about Chuck Bass…because, well, he’s Chuck Bass. Along the way, Sonja shares a Christmas tradition, and Vanessa & Cecily are rather surprised. You know you love us! XOXO, the IWAW Girls

Sharon McMahon interview: WE ARE MIGHTY

Sharon is–deservedly so–America’s Government Teacher.  She joins us today to talk about her eloquent and beautifully-illustrated children’s book, WE ARE MIGHTY.  Join Sonja and Vanessa in finding out how Sharon adapted her work for a younger audience, her own experience in high school history class, finding her writing voice, how to find untold stories to tell, and why she dropped pre-med as her major…in a surprisingly eerie story.  Along the way, Sharon shares her love of pigeons and feeds Sonja and Vanessa some baby carrots. REFERENCES: To learn more about Emma Lazarus, the poet Sharon mentions, click here. [https://www.womenshistory.org/education-resources/biographies/emma-lazarus] To learn more about the American Exchange Project that Sonja is involved in, go to the American Exchange Project website [https://americanexchangeproject.org/]. For more details on Sharon McMahon’s banned commencement address, check out this Newsweek article from April 2026 [https://www.newsweek.com/sharon-mcmahon-uvu-graduation-cancelled-charlie-kirk-11893211]. To read the address that Sharon had prepared to give:  Sharon McMahon: My Message to the Class of 2026 [https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/commentary/2026/04/30/sharon-mcmahon-my-message-class/?shem=rimspwouoe,]

S5 E10 Fallen Society: Hallie Rubenhold’s THE FIVE

Hallie Rubenhold’s THE FIVE sheds light on the lives of the 5 women who were murdered by Jack the Ripper in London in 1888.  So much of history has focused on these women’s final hours, their deaths, the macabre nature of their wounds, and the assumption that they were all bad women who put themselves in harm’s way.  In other words, since they were seen as fallen women, they were in essence blamed for their own murders. Sonja and Vanessa offer a brief bio of each woman, and an overview of Rubenhold’s carefully reasoned and meticulously-researched argument for seeing these women as 3 dimensional people who deserve to be remembered and their loss mourned.  And while no one would claim that Victorian England was a fair playing field, we’ll explain how Rubenhold’s research reveals how Victorian society was astonishingly stacked against women, specifically. Along the way, there are honestly not a lot of bright spots, but a “jolly bonnet” and an unlikely tattoo can be made out under the gas lamp lights of this grim historical time and place for women.  REFERENCES: Please, please, please treat yourself to reading Hallie Rubenhold's The Five [https://hallierubenhold.com/books/the-five/].  She writes a compelling narrative for each woman, and you’ll come away with a breathtakingly detailed impression of the complicated world these women were doing their best to survive.  The writing is fresh, and the amount of literal digging Rubenhold must have done to get past all the false narratives to actual truth is stunning.  It’s historical narrative at its best, and the final chapter is an impassioned, moving assessment of how laws, religion, social mores, journalists, and historians have all failed these women.  THE FIVE is a tour de force, and we could not recommend it more highly.

S5E9:  Take the Rake to Court:  The 1793 Sewing Girl Rape Case with John Wood Sweet

Please note that this episode deals with a historical account of sexual assault. Spoiler note: there are a couple of spoilers about the historical events involved, but even if you are aware of the outcome of this case, Sweet's recounting of the story and the context he uncovers and explains is fascinating and so, so worth your time. If you pick up a copy of John Wood Sweet’s 2022 study, THE SEWING GIRL'S TALE: A STORY OF CRIME AND CONSEQUENCES IN REVOLUTIONARY AMERICA, you will see award stamps for not one, not two, but SIX awards bestowed up this absorbing masterpiece of narrative history.   We did not know about THE SEWING GIRL'S TALE when we planned our Fallen Women season, but when we came across it, we knew we had to include it because it is a thrilling read.  Add to the joy of reading it that the stars aligned for us to interview John Wood Sweet himself.   Join Sonja and Vanessa as Sweet explains why this trial could only have happened in the 1790s, why it was the first rape case to be covered in newspapers, and how New York rippled in reaction to the verdict.  To say that Sweet researched deeply to create this work would be an understatement, and when you consider it’s page-turning quality, it really is a must read for anyone who loves history, finding women otherwise lost to history, and seeing a shift in public sentiment towards the assumption that women are to blame for their own undoing.   Along the way, Sonja nerds out about New York, and Vanessa fangirls on five paragraphs about a piece of jewelry.

Author interview: Laurie Dove's MASK OF THE DEER WOMAN

IWAW loves a great mystery/thriller, and if you do, too, you should treat yourself to reading Laurie Dove’s 2025 novel, MASK OF THE DEER WOMAN There will be NO spoilers in this show!  Sonja and Vanessa visit with Dove about the compelling issues underpinning this gripping story.  There are so many positive reviews of the novel, so here’s just a sample:  “A beautifully written tale about the Indigenous girls who disappear twice, once in life and once in the news. Clever, elegant and utterly compelling, MASK OF THE DEER WOMAN is a brilliant exploration of identity and the struggle of being separated from one’s culture. Hypnotic and beguiling, I was hooked from the first sentence.”—Christina McDonald, USA Today bestselling author of These Still Black Waters. In our interview, Dove talks about what sparked her desire to write MASK OF THE DEER WOMAN, why she felt compelled to turn to fiction, and how she understands the role of storytelling.  Plus, this is only the first of the Carrie Starr novels, and Dove lets us in on when we can expect the next installment.   Along the way, Sonja defends The Book of Kells, and Vanessa wishes she could be in a book club with Starr.