Fixing Music Licensing for Cheerleading, Sports & Performing Arts | Chantal Epp | Kick & Snare Podcast

From Bratmobile to CD Baby President: Molly Neuman’s story is a masterclass in building a career

In this episode, Molly Neuman joins Michael Nevins to share how CD Baby has changed (and what’s coming next), why the artist “DIY” journey is way more complex than people think, and how platforms earn trust when the experience is intuitive and fair. They also get into the pressure artists feel to do everything (music, content, business), and why it’s worth being honest about what success can look like. Along the way: Riot Grrrl, music scenes, and community-building; drumming as both craft and metaphor (multiple limbs / multiple priorities); and the mindset Molly uses to navigate a long, evolving career in music and tech. 00:00 - Kick & Snare intro 00:18 - Meet Molly Neuman (CD Baby President) 02:43 - Squiggly careers 04:53 - What CD Baby does today (and why “DIY” is more complex than it sounds) 06:59 - Molly’s Downtown journey: Songtrust → CMO → CD Baby 08:58 - Repositioning CD Baby: infrastructure, operations, and competing in a crowded market 11:24 - “By artists, for artists” + modern artist needs (global scale, new expectations) 12:38 - UX is the brand: why product experience beats logos 14:05 - Labels as filters: identity, taste, and trust (Discord, scenes, discovery) 18:26 - Labels as filters: identity, taste, and trust (Discord, scenes, discovery) 22:40 - Scenes, movements, and Riot Grrrl: how it grew (and what it wasn’t) 37:15 - Representation and visibility: why it changes people’s lives 42:12 - Career growth via new environments (Kickstarter lessons, scaling Songtrust) 44:36 - Untapped opportunity: supporting more women creators 45:51 - Getting her start as a drummer: learning by watching the kick drum 52:28 - Getting better in your 50s 53:51 - Drumming and leadership: multitasking, anticipation, staying in time 55:36 - Artist tools: being real about what artists need now 58:05 - What Molly’s listening to right now + closing

Is AI a Revolution Like Electricity? Cliff Fluet on Music Rights & What’s Next

Cliff Fluet (partner at Louis Silkin, joint head of Media & Entertainment; Chair of Music Technology UK; founder of Eleven Advisory) joins Michael Nevins to unpack how music, tech, and IP are colliding in the age of AI. We cover: why MusicTechnology UK focuses on funding + ecosystem building, why Cliff believes AI is a paradigm shift on the scale of electricity, and his core argument: “Copyright isn’t the problem. Licensing is the answer.” Plus: the case for focusing on outputs vs inputs, the music industry’s data problem, and practical advice for founders and people breaking into music tech. * Cliff Fluet (Louis Silkin): #MusicTech [https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/musictech] #AI [https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/ai] #Copyright [https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/copyright] #Licensing [https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/licensing] #MusicIndustry [https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/musicindustry] #startups [https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/startups] 00:00 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiWY0F8n2rc] - Start 00:23 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiWY0F8n2rc&t=23s] - Intro: Cliff Fluet (Louis Silkin, MusicTech UK, Eleven Advisory) 01:54 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiWY0F8n2rc&t=114s] - From hi-fi salesman to Warner Music: Cliff’s origin story 04:00 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiWY0F8n2rc&t=240s] - Warner Music in the CD boom → internet flips the industry 04:47 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiWY0F8n2rc&t=287s] - New media at Warner: early streaming + disruption 05:51 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiWY0F8n2rc&t=351s] - The jump to radio: “I’ve got to go on the other side and get some rights from you.” 06:57 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiWY0F8n2rc&t=417s] - Private practice: advising mobile + early streaming (Pandora → DSPs) 07:58 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiWY0F8n2rc&t=478s] - Why “legal + strategic” (and founding Eleven Advisory) 09:22 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiWY0F8n2rc&t=562s] - Building MusicTech UK: the what and the why 12:56 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiWY0F8n2rc&t=776s] - The #1 problem for music tech startups 16:03 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiWY0F8n2rc&t=963s] - Community + “space & place”: H.O.M.E. + Tileyard Studios ecosystems 19:48 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiWY0F8n2rc&t=1188s] - Does the UK get enough credit for music innovation? 23:58 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiWY0F8n2rc&t=1438s] - AI as a revolution (not an evolution) 33:47 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiWY0F8n2rc&t=2027s] - AI training data + copyright: can we “unscramble the egg”? 34:23 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiWY0F8n2rc&t=2063s] - Key thesis: “Licensing is the answer” (outputs vs inputs) 38:13 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiWY0F8n2rc&t=2293s] - Flying the plane while building it: contracting in uncertainty 44:13 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiWY0F8n2rc&t=2653s] - The music industry’s biggest blind spot: data 48:16 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiWY0F8n2rc&t=2896s] - Disruption vs curiosity: what founders get wrong 51:56 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiWY0F8n2rc&t=3116s] - Career advice: curiosity wins 54:25 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiWY0F8n2rc&t=3265s] - What Cliff is listening to now 56:23 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiWY0F8n2rc&t=3383s] - Cool tech: Bria & Uhmbrella 57:07 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiWY0F8n2rc&t=3427s] - Closing: “help write music’s next verse.”

Privacy Law, Songwriting, and Collaboration: How Alan Chappell Gets The Mix Right

Michael Nevins welcomes guest Alan Chappell, President of Chappell and Associates, ad tech privacy expert, and multifaceted musician. Alan shares insights into balancing a demanding legal career with his passion for music, discussing his songwriting process, the impact of AI on the creative industry, and experiences working with renowned producers like Jimmy Einer and Jerry Harrison. The conversation explores the evolution of music technology, incorporating personal anecdotes about Alan's musical journey and his perspectives on the integration of creativity and business. Alan also offers advice for aspiring creatives, emphasizing the importance of embracing chaos in the creative process. More about Alan and his music: https://thisischapell.com/ And More about Chappell & Associates: https://thisischapell.com/chapellassociates/

Drummer. Artist. Disruptor. Advocate. How Richard Burgess & A2IM Empower Independent Music

In this episode of The Kick & Snare Podcast, host Michael Nevins talks with Richard James Burgess, President & CEO of A2IM (American Association of Independent Music). They explore what defines “independent,” how A2IM supports its member labels, the challenges of streaming payouts, the battle for fair compensation from platforms like TikTok, and what’s next for music and AI. Richard also shares stories and insights from his varied music career as a drummer, signed artist, producer, artist manager, label exec, and his current role at A2IM.  Fun facts: Richard coined the term “EDM” (Electronic Dance Music), produced Spandau Ballet, and was an innovator and early adopter in music tech, He contributed to the development of the the first Simmons electronic drum kits and championed the The Fairlight CMI, a ground breaking digital synthesizer, music sampler, and digital audio workstation, This episode is an essential listen for anyone passionate about independent music, digital rights, music tech, and innovation in the music industry. 🌐 Learn more about A2IM: https://a2im.org/ [https://a2im.org/] 00:00 - Intro: Meet Richard Burgess 01:16 - Discussion Outline and Topics 03:12 - Understanding A2IM and A Definition of “Independent” in Music 05:27 - History and Mission of A2IM and Digital Disruption 11:01 - Indies vs Majors: A Complicated Relationship 13:25 - Misconceptions About Independent Labels 14:31 - The Critical Role of Independent Labels in Music Innovation 17:05 - Support and Advocacy for Independent Labels and Artists 20:51 - Challenges and Opportunities in the Digital Music Landscape 25:08 - The Impact of AI on Independent Music 27:45 - Supporting Artist Well-Being Through A2IM Programs 30:48 - Health Insurance for Artists 34:10 - Reflecting on a Decade at A2IM 38:34 - Transitioning Leadership at A2IM 41:55 - A Journey Through Music: From Drummer to Producer 43:38 - From Drummer to Studio Musician 44:40 - From Drummer for Hire to Signed Artist 46:29 - Transition to Producing, Including Producing Spandau Ballet 47:06 - Coining The Terms “EDM” and “New Romantic Movement” 48:24 - Why Drummers Are Often Great Producers 49:52 - The Move To Artist Management, Smithsonian Folkways, And How Lead Belly Played A Role 50:53 - Getting Involved With A2IM 51:20 - Studying at Berklee with Alan Dawson 53:45 - Advice for Artists & Labels: Finding Your Audience

Fixing Music Licensing for Cheerleading, Sports & Performing Arts | Chantal Epp | Kick & Snare Podcast

🎙️ In this episode of The Kick and Snare Podcast, Michael Nevins speaks with Chantal Epp, founder and CEO of ClicknClear, a music rights tech company solving licensing issues for choreographed sports like cheerleading, dance, and gymnastics. Chantal shares her journey from music licensing at a Peter Gabriel startup to becoming a two-time world champion cheerleader and creating a solution to a widespread problem in the sports and performing arts world. We dive into: ✅ How ClicknClear helps athletes and teams license music legally ✅ The unique challenges of music rights for sports routines ✅ Building inclusive cheerleading programs & Paralympic initiatives ✅ The role of Music Technology UK in supporting founders ✅ Challenges facing music tech startups today 🔔 Subscribe for more conversations at the intersection of music, technology, and business. 👉 For more on Click n Clear: https://www.clicknclear.com 👉 Follow Kick & Snare Podcast: https://kickandsnare.com 00:00 - Introduction to Chantal Epp & ClicknClear 03:50 - The Challenge of Music Licensing in Sports 05:47 - The Role of Education in Music Licensing 07:22 - Chantal’s Journey as a World Champion Cheerleader 09:15 - Advocacy for Inclusive Cheerleading And Other Sports 15:01 - Navigating Language and Inclusion 19:15 - The Importance of Community and Music Technology UK 21:04 - Key Challenges Facing Music Tech Startups 24:14 - Women in Male-Dominated Industries 30:06 - Chantal’s Personal Connection to Music 33:17 - The Therapeutic Power of Music #MusicTech #ChantalEpp #ClicknClear #MusicLicensing #Cheerleading #AdaptiveSports #MusicTechnologyUK #KickAndSnarePodcast #FounderStories