We Thought It Would Be Easy

Ed Fries: The Father of the Xbox is Really a Hacker at Heart

Ed Fries joins hosts Jordan Weisman and Jonathan Grant to show how a teenage arcade hacker became the exec who helped turn Microsoft into a gaming powerhouse. Curiosity first, constraints as fuel, and a ruthless respect for shipping, that hacker ethos still drives how he works & builds things today. Check out Ed's venture fund 1Up Ventures - where he's building a community of the most talented, experienced, and creative independent game developers in the world. https://1upfund.com/ Don't forget to check out the IDGA, he world’s largest nonprofit membership organization supporting the people who make games. https://igda.org/ Quick reference mentioned by Ed:  • Amir Satvat’s “Dear parent” letter: A frank, supportive overview for families weighing game careers, with realistic odds and next steps. https://www.linkedin.com/posts/amirsatvat_dear-parent-of-a-college-high-school-or-activity-7316429901132165125-vFYb/  • Amir Satvat’s “Harsh truth about game degrees”: Data on employability by role, what to study, and practical alternatives. https://www.linkedin.com/posts/amirsatvat_the-harsh-truth-about-game-degrees-too-many-activity-7324100230067453952-YaW2/ 00:00 Jordan Weisman and Jonathan Grant welcome Ed Fries 07:13 Early Hacker Days 17:37 Excel's "Sindogs" Bug 25:07 Joining Microsoft's Games Group 29:00 Navigating Corporate Politics 36:28 Xbox Origins & Brand Battles 46:39 Building Game Portfolios 59:52 Post-Microsoft & Family Focus 01:05:48 Passion vs. Profit in Gaming 01:15:22 1Up Ventures & New Bets 01:21:23 Advice for Young Creators 01:27:52 Regrets & The Fickle Nature of Pitches 01:34:57 Closing & What's Next Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wethoughtpod Follow us on X: https://www.x.com/wethoughtpod Follow us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/we-thought-it-would-be-easy

Daniel Dociu: From Guild Wars to The Expanse, Making Art That Serves Story First

Art Director & visual powerhouse Daniel Dociu joins Jordan Weisman and Jonathan Grant to torch “style bibles,” praise imperfections, and argue that art should grow like aged cheese - slow, organic, story-first. He recalls sketching Crimson Skies, turning Guild Wars into a “playable painting,” and painting The Expanse covers with zero notes. The trio spar over rapid prototyping, AI’s coming shake-up, and how small, gutsy teams can still out-create lumbering megaprojects. Check out Daniel's INCREDIBLE ArtStation, where you can find many examples of his amazing work: https://www.artstation.com/daniel_dociu 00:00 Jordan Weisman and Jonathan Grant welcome Daniel Dociu 05:12 Daniel's Unique & Definitional Style 07:27 Style Can't Be Frozen - It Must Be Grown 12:31 Style Guides vs Real Creativity 17:32 Conducting an Art “Orchestra” of Hundreds 23:44 Becoming Distinctive by Accepting Imperfection 32:22 Directing Art by Starting Conversations 35:09 On Sequels & Sameness 40:19 Navigating AI's Role in Creativity 40:27 AI, First Chairs, and the Future's Smaller Teams 45:56 Concentric Development: Prove Fun Before Polish 49:41 Personalization vs. Localization in Gaming 54:25 The Destructive Nature of the Approvals in Games 01:08:08 Painting The Expanse: A No-Notes Approval Story Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wethoughtpod Follow us on X: https://www.x.com/wethoughtpod Follow us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/we-thought-it-would-be-easy

Mitch Gitelman: On Building MechCommander, Shadowrun, Battletech - and Why Kindness Wins

Mitch Gitelman: Building MechCommander, Shadowrun, Battletech - And Why Kindness Wins Game-making maestro Mitch Gitelman sits down with Jordan and Jonathan to spill the wild origin story of how “a kid who didn’t know what a pixel was” bluffed his way into Sony - and then built classics like MechCommander, Shadowrun Returns, and BattleTech. From goat-pasture negotiations and Microsoft war stories to why “improvise, adapt, overcome” (and a lot of kindness) still beat crunch and corporate ego, this episode all about creative hustle and staying human in AAA chaos. Check out SLICE - Seattle Loves Indie Creators Expo, is a one-day games industry conference that Mitch is helping out with: https://seattleslice.org/ Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wethoughtpod Follow us on X: https://www.x.com/wethoughtpod Follow us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/we-thought-it-would-be-easy

Kevin Konrad Hanna: From Game Developer to Directing the Hit Hellboy Documentary and Taking Home Film Awards

Our guest this week is Kevin Hanna - who started as a scrappy game developer before making an unlikely leap into directing documentaries, including the acclaimed film about Hellboy creator Mike Mignola. He joins Jordan and Jonathan to share candid insights about the creative hustle, turning lunch-table dreams into award-winning reality, and why true creativity means making your own luck, even when the odds are against you. Watch Mike Mignola: Drawing Monsters on Amazon Prime: https://amzn.to/4dfzPho Check out Ink On Paper (Kevin's film studio) on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@inkonpaperstudios Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wethoughtpod Follow us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/we-thought-it-would-be-easy

Chris Taylor: Creator of Total Annihilation on Big Risks and Never Asking Permission

In this episode, storied game designer Chris Taylor (Total Annihilation, Supreme Commander) joins Jordan Weisman and Jonathan Grant for a candid conversation about fearless creativity, costly mistakes, and why groundbreaking games often mean never waiting for permission. From pioneering real-time strategy to surviving the brutal highs and lows of independent studio life, Chris shares his boldest bets - and what it truly takes to deliver on ambitious game-design dreams. Check out Chris' web‑based RTS project Kanoogi: https://www.kanoogi.com/ 00:00 Jordan Weisman and Jonathan Grant welcome Chris Taylor 03:10 Chris Taylor's Early Career and Hardball 08:09 Transitioning to Boxing Games 12:18 Taking the Leap: Leaving EA for Total Annihilation 15:08 The Rise of Total Annihilation: A New Genre 21:00 Balancing Complexity: The Challenge of Game Mechanics 29:00 The Role of Trust in Creative Teams 34:37 Subtraction in Design: Knowing What to Remove 40:25 Creative Freedom and Game Development 43:52 From Cave Dog to Gas Powered Games 55:13 Work-Life Balance in Game Development 01:00:18 The Pain of Innovation 01:04:34 Lessons from Mistakes and Expectations Management 01:13:50 The Burden of Expectations & Navigating Failure 01:19:01 The Evolution of Game Development 01:24:11 The Changing Landscape of the Gaming Industry Follow Chris: https://x.com/DeathBot9 Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wethoughtpod Follow us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/we-thought-it-would-be-easy