THE LONG BLUE LEADERSHIP PODCAST

In this episode of Long Blue Leadership, Co-Hosts Naviere Walkewicz and Wyatt Hornsby reflect on the leadership lessons shared by accomplished graduates of the U.S. Air Force Academy over the first two seasons.   SUMMARY The hosts highlight key moments and insights from various guests, emphasizing the importance of personal connections, resilience, and the role of mentorship in leadership. They discuss the unique experiences of leaders like Coach Troy Calhoun, Brigadier General Gavin P. Marks, Nicole Malachowski, Madison Marsh, Lieutenant General BJ Schwedo, and Carl Falk, showcasing how their journeys can inspire others in their leadership paths.   SHARE THIS EPISODE LINKEDIN [https://www.linkedin.com/shareArticle?mini=true&url=https%3A//www.longblueleadership.org/e/unscripted-lives-a-long-blue-leadership-retrospective/?token=9710235b5f89dca1bdac8792e852e9bd]  |  FACEBOOK [https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=https%3A//www.longblueleadership.org/e/unscripted-lives-a-long-blue-leadership-retrospective/?token=9710235b5f89dca1bdac8792e852e9bd]   TAKEAWAYS  - Leadership is deeply personal and requires understanding your people.  - The importance of resilience and the ability to bounce back from setbacks.  - Mentorship plays a crucial role in developing future leaders.  - Building relationships is essential in leadership roles.  - Knowing your craft enhances credibility and effectiveness as a leader.  - Leadership is about doing good and positively impacting others' lives.  - Embracing vulnerability can lead to personal and professional growth.  - It's important to risk failure in pursuit of big dreams.  - Support from family and mentors can shape one's career trajectory.  - Leaders should encourage others to pursue their passions and dreams.   CHAPTERS 00:00 Celebrating Leadership Lessons from the Air Force Academy 02:11 Highlighting Coach Troy Calhoun's Leadership Philosophy 08:09 Insights from Brigadier General Gavin P. Marks 12:59 Nicole Malachowski: Overcoming Setbacks and Embracing Dreams 19:09 Madison Marsh: A Journey of Resilience and Purpose 23:27 Lessons from Lieutenant General BJ Schwedo on Future Conflict 28:23 Karl Falk: The Importance of Support and Grit in Leadership   ABOUT THE HOSTS BIOS LT. COL. (RET.) NAVIERE WALKEWICZ ’99 Senior Vice President, Engagement With over two decades in leadership roles, my current focus at the Association of Graduates - U.S. Air Force Academy is fostering a robust network of 50,000+ alumni. This commitment involves igniting a culture of engagement and inclusivity, underpinned by a strong foundation in support of our Air Force Academy. - BIO COPY CREDIT:  LINKEDIN.COM MR. WYATT HORNSBY Senior Vice President, Marketing & Communications | Executive Editor & Writer Wyatt Hornsby is passionate about developing marketing and communications talent and cohesive, high-performance teams. He is senior vice president of marketing and communications at the Air Force Academy Foundation and the Association of Graduates. He leads the work of the foundation and alumni association marketing and communications division, while also coordinating with various Air Force Academy offices, including Public Affairs and Strategic Communications. - BIO COPY CREDIT:  LINKEDIN.COM   ALL PAST LBL EPISODES [https://www.longblueleadership.org]  |  ALL LBLPN PRODUCTIONS [https://www.podbean.com/podcast-network/longbluelinepodcast] AVAILABLE ON ALL MAJOR PODCAST PLATFORMS   CONNECT WITH THE LONG BLUE LEADERSHIP PODCAST NETWORK TEAM Send your feedback or nominate a guest at: socialmedia@usafa.org [socialmedia@usafa.org] TED ROBERTSON:  Ted.Robertson@USAFA.org [Ted.Robertson@USAFA.org]  Multimedia and Podcast Specialist | LBL Podcast Network Producer and Editor RYAN HALL:  Ryan.Hall@USAFA.org [Ryan.Hall@USAFA.org]  Assistant Director of Multimedia Production | LBL Podcast Network Director BRYAN GROSSMAN:  Bryan.Grossman@USAFA.org [Bryan.Grossman@USAFA.org] Senior Director of Strategic Communications and Publications | LBL Podcast Network Copy Editor WYATT HORNSBY:  Wyatt.Hornsby@USAFA.org [Wyatt.Hornsby@USAFA.org]  Senior Vice President, Marketing & Communications | Executive Editor & Writer | LBL Podcast Network Executive Producer   FULL TRANSCRIPT SPEAKERS Co-Hosts:  Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz ’99  |  Mr. Wyatt Hornsby Guests:  Coach Troy Calhoun ’89; Brig. Gen. Gavin P. Marks ’96; Col. (Ret.) Nicole Malachowski ’96;  2nd Lt. Madison Marsh ’23; Gen. BJ Schwedo ’87; Mr. Karl Falk ’98, Mr. Ted Robertson    Naviere Walkewicz 00:20 Welcome to our Long Blue Leadership retrospective. We're celebrating our first two seasons and the countless leadership lessons shared by some of the most accomplished United States Air Force Academy graduates.   Wyatt Hornsby 00:31 Naviere, seasons 1 and 2 have showcased amazing leadership stories and takeaways. From the very start, Long Blue Leadership has given listeners an inside look at real experiences, insights and advice from seasoned leaders, as well as those just beginning their leadership journeys. These deep dives have explored how leaders not only face challenges head-on but also find ways to inspire and empower those around them.   Naviere Walkewicz 00:58 Yes, what really sets this podcast apart is the mix of our guests’ perspectives on leadership. These discussions have touched on teamwork, perseverance, humility, excellence and service before self.   Wyatt Hornsby 01:12 In this edition of Long Blue Leadership, we're sharing a few of our favorite moments. Not easy, because there are so many. Plus, we'll give you a preview of Season 3, which launches soon.   Naviere Walkewicz 01:23 And so, without further ado, Wyatt, let's get into our Long Blue Leadership podcast.   Wyatt Hornsby Let's do it, Naviere.   Naviere Walkewicz Some of our favorite moments. This was not easy to do at all.   Wyatt Hornsby 01:33 Indeed, it was not easy. Two seasons — and Naviere, while we're at it, I just want to congratulate you; awesome job on hosting Long Blue Leadership, and also a little plug for our friend Doug Lindsay as well for doing a great job as host.   Naviere Walkewicz 01:46 It’s been an amazing journey, and I think the biggest thing for me has been just being able to share some of the stories of our graduates. So, like we said, picking just a few of them was really hard, but it's been just a beautiful transformation of where we started and where we're going in Season 3.   Wyatt Hornsby 02:01 It's been wonderful storytelling, and I hope that our listeners have been able to take away some great actionable insights for their own leadership journeys, whether they're Academy graduates or others seeking to develop as leaders.   Naviere Walkewicz 02:13 I know I personally took some things away from all of these conversations. I think some of them we’ll highlight today.   Wyatt Hornsby 02:18 Wonderful. Let's do it. Looking forward to it.   Naviere Walkewicz 02:21 So, I think you might have the first one you wanted to highlight.   Wyatt Hornsby 02:24 So Naviere, as we said, I mean, it's so difficult to find our favorites. I mean, there are just so many across seasons 1 and 2. But I'm going to tell you, I was so struck by Coach Troy Calhoun, Class of ’89. That conversation was absolutely awesome. And a couple of things stood out to me, and we'll listen to a clip from our conversation with Coach Calhoun, but a couple things that stood out to me was, I think a lot of people, when they think about Coach Calhoun and him coming on to do a conversation, they're probably going to expect him to talk about the Xs and Os and strategy and how the Falcons are looking for the season. But in this case, what Coach Calhoun did was he came in and he talked about his own leadership journey all the way from the beginning growing up in Oregon. And I just think that throughout the conversation, we learned a lot about him as a person, his family, his formative experiences. And really what I took away from it additionally, was the unique importance of athletics at the Academy, and how Coach Calhoun and his program, like all sports at USAFA, are developing leaders of character for our Air Force and Space Force. Just an awesome conversation.   Naviere Walkewicz 03:37 It was an awesome conversation. I think it really talks about — one of the things that stood out, I think, in the clip that you picked up is really about how he views leadership and taking care of people. Let’s give it a listen.   Wyatt Hornsby Indeed.   Troy Calhoun 03:49 You need to be doing something that you love, that you're passionate about. And the other part is, again, just the involvement that you have with your people. And, you know, to get in there, literally, where you're hip to hip and shoulder to shoulder. And I think sometimes, whether you're in a leadership role or maybe you have a certain rank, you think, “Well, I can't do that in order to maintain my distance professionally.” And I wholeheartedly disagree. I think you have to be able to operate from different perspectives as a leader. I think, clearly, you can still articulate and live the standards that are a part of your operation or your unit or your football program. But again, it's about people.   Naviere Walkewicz 04:46 Well said. It really is.   Wyatt Hornsby 04:47 Well said. Earlier in the conversation too, he had a point where he talked about three things, his philosophy of leadership. You talked to him about his philosophy of leadership. He talked about, as he said in that clip, being right there alongside your people. He talked about knowing your craft incredibly well — not just strategy, but also tactics. And as he mentioned in that clip really well, getting to know your people as humans and what makes them tick. It’s easy to, listening to that conversation, it's easy to see why Coach Calhoun has been here for such a long time and been so successful as head football coach.   Naviere Walkewicz 05:25 I think one of the lines I remember him sharing about when we talked about leadership was — I think I asked him, like, “It seems like it's really personal,” and he says, “Absolutely, leadership is personal.” It's about being… understanding who, you know, what's going on in their lives, because if you can understand what they're going through, then you can help them through some challenges and move them to, you know, whatever everyone else is working through together. And so, I really appreciated that he talks about getting to know his people on a personal level, and he challenges all of his coaches to do the same. I think there was a point where he even shared that if he knew some of the team members better than the coaches did, then that was a problem, right? And so, I think he wanted to make sure that being a good leader is knowing who your people are and what they need.   Wyatt Hornsby 06:07 That's right. It's just so instructive and inspiring to those of us who are developing as leaders. And I mean, it goes without saying, college football is changing. It's changing a lot. But I think for Coach Calhoun, he just talks about, as you said, that importance of relationships. And amid all those in college sports, staying focused on the relationship aspect, getting to know his players and his coaches, and remaining hyper-focused on that mission, developing leaders of character for the Air Force and Space Force.   Naviere Walkewicz 06:38 What was something that you took from that personally, that, you know, maybe has evolved the way that you lead or are thinking about leadership?   Wyatt Hornsby 06:46 You know, I'm developing as a leader every day. I've had some tremendous mentors in my life, but I really — I enjoyed what he talked about, about knowing your craft. I think that's really important, because I think it helps you build credibility with those that you lead. Of course, you can't know everything about everything that you lead, but knowing your craft, understanding not just the strategies and the tactics, and I think that helps you build credibility with your team and provide the right leadership to set the vision and the priorities for your team.   Naviere Walkewicz 07:21 I love that. I think what I took from that conversation was really about being humble. I mean, to be where he at is in his career, and I just felt across the table someone who was so humble in every day, learning from everyone around him and trying to really kind of give back in that way. That's something I always want to try and strive to do.   Wyatt Hornsby 07:41 I agree completely. And by the way, he talked about his younger sister, a 10-time all-American, which is pretty incredible. She's also an Academy graduate. And I think if I recall, he said that he looks up to his younger sister. So, I took that away, too. Just a humble, humble leader.   Naviere Walkewicz 07:59 I love that. Well, I'd like to go into one of my favorite moments, and it was with Brig. Gen. Gavin P. Marks, Class of ’96, the commandant of the Air Force Academy currently. And this one was special for me, Wyatt, for multiple reasons. I have two cadets, as you know, that are going through the Air Force Academy under his leadership, but he was also my basic cadet commander. So, when I was at the Academy as a four-degree, he was leading us through Basic Cadet Training. And a funny story I'll share with you: When I was later in my career as a civilian working at Offutt Air Force Base. He was the wing commander at office Air Force Base, and I was working at STRATCOM, Strategic Command. I turned around a corner, and I immediately go, “Huh, Gavin P. Marks!” and he started laughing, and he goes, “What year are you?” And I said, “’99,” and he said, “It's good that you still remember my middle initial.” But it stuck out to me and then the funny thing after that, I said, “I never knew you had so many teeth,” because he would scare us. But the reason why this podcast was so special was because I think it brought me to a new level of understanding that — in remembering that we're all human right, and so we all have things that we go through. And so, to hear him from his humble days, talking about his mom, I really just enjoyed his perspective on, you know, his career, which wasn't necessarily a trajectory that he was planning. He certainly had some goals of he would love to have been the commandant at the Academy, but it certainly, you know — it kind of moved in a way that we'll talk about in this clip. And so, I'm interested to hear your thoughts on that conversation before we jump into the clip.   Wyatt Hornsby 09:35 He has extraordinary presence — Gen. Marks does. And it came through not just in the podcast conversation. We had a reunion, several reunions, where he provided a senior leader briefing, and you can just feel that presence and that commitment and that dedication to the USAFA mission. And I'm really excited to hear this clip and then also share another thought on something from the conversation that really stuck out to me as well.   Naviere Walkewicz 10:00 All right. Well, let's roll the clip.   Brig. Gen. Marks 10:03 But as you command at higher levels, while the impact — and I probably should have said it this way: The impact that you would have on so many individual airmen's lives lessons, the impact that you can have on an individual airman's life magnifies based on rank. It is significant also, and I always — one of the things that I tell people all the time is, it's an oversimplification, but the only reason to have rank is to do good, is to do good things, to make things happen in a positive way that affect positively mission and benefit airmen's lives. That's it. That's all. And if rank becomes something different than that for you, you're in the wrong business, or we've given it to the wrong person. If I'm being honest with you.   Naviere Walkewicz 10:55 What did you think about when you heard that?   Wyatt Hornsby 10:56 I am glad that he is the commandant of cadets at the United States Air Force Academy. And I think that I would go so far as to say that what he said there probably reflects how many Air Force — probably all — Air Force Academy graduates feel about leadership, that it's an opportunity to do good for other people, to improve lives, to move people forward, to elevate performance, to lift others. So, super powerful.   Naviere Walkewicz 11:24 I think what was also really great about our conversation was how he talked about the importance of family. And I think when you — sometimes when you think about a leader that's made it to such levels in their career, you think, “Well, it's career above everything else.” But he actually talked about how there are a couple of times when he might have retired had he not had the support from his wife and from his family. And I thought that was really insightful as well, where he really consulted them on some of his biggest decisions.   Wyatt Hornsby 11:52 That's right, perhaps his closest and most valued partners in life.   Naviere Walkewicz 11:56 Yes, I think that's something that our listeners can really value. I know I took that to heart as well, because while it is important, and obviously our professional lives are such a huge part of our lives, our lives are much more holistic than that, right? I think having your networks of support and leadership are really important.   Wyatt Hornsby 12:14 I agree. And Naviere, while we're talking about Gen. Marks too, I gotta put in a plug, and I know we're not gonna listen to this clip, but he told an awesome story about a $20 bill and the Honor Code.   Naviere Walkewicz Yes.   Wyatt Hornsby And as I recall, he really talked about how that was one of the experiences that made him see this United States Air Force Academy — it's a unique and different kind of place.   Naviere Walkewicz 12:38 Absolutely, and so if you missed that, it's a great time for you to go back to longblueleadership.org and listen to that clip in its full entirety.   Wyatt Hornsby 12:48 That's right. Let's talk about Nicole Malachowski, Class of 1996. This conversation — it was a recent conversation that you had with her — really stood out to me on a couple of different levels. Even as a child, she set her sights on what she wanted to do in life, which was to become a fighter pilot. She was focused on that, and at the height of her career, she had a very difficult setback that she spoke I thought very openly and vulnerably about. I just really appreciated that. But in this clip that we're going to play, Naviere, and I'd love to hear your reaction before our good friend, producer Ted rolls it, I would love to just hear your thoughts about this clip and just really important advice that a mentor provided to her at a key moment.   Naviere Walkewicz 13:33 I think you teed it up perfectly. I would say, from sitting across the table, what I felt when I heard that was just a sense of pride in remembering that we all bring something to the table, and empowerment in not being afraid to go forward with it. So, let's give it a listen.   Nicole Malachowski 13:51 I remember thinking, “Thank God I didn't put myself out there. Thank God, Nicole,” you know… now I'm a 30-year-old captain, so I'm still a young person. “Thank God you didn't risk failure. Who are you to think you could be a Thunderbird? Silly girl.” Right? And in that moment, the weirdest thing happened, and I tell this story on stage sometimes. The door opened to the Officer’s Club, and in walked the wing commander, Brig. Gen. Mark Matthews. And in that moment, over walks my squadron commander, a wonderful man by the name of Dan DeBree. His call sign was “Trash.” Get it? Trash, debris. Trash walks over, super excited, very supportive of my application, and he's like, “Hey, general, did you know Nicole's applying to be a Thunderbird?” Man, I mean, you could have slowed down time. I was like, “Ix-nay on the underbird-tay,” like, “This is terrible.” Neither of these guys knew that I had removed my application, and Dan's standing there all proud. He's my squadron commander, supporting me — a great man, again. And Mark Matthews looks down at me, Gen. Matthews, and he goes, “That's great. How's your application going?” And I'm like — I looked at him, and here's what happened. I said, “You know, so it's hard to be a Thunderbird, but I probably won't get picked. They haven't had a woman, so I don't want to waste anybody's time.”   Naviere Walkewicz Oh, you said everything.   Nicole Malachowski I said it. I said all of it, and this is kind of an embarrassing story to tell, but I'm just, this is the truth, right? This is the vulnerable truth of how this happened. And he looked down at me, and I will never forget this, and I hope folks listening who have big dreams and gnarly goals remember this. He looked down at me and he said, “Nicole.” Actually, he said, “Fifi.” My call sign. “Fifi, nobody wants to lead a scripted life.” And he walked away and left me in extraordinarily uncomfortable silence. And those words, “…nobody wants to lead a scripted life…” have become my life's mantra. Every time I get the knot in my stomach that says that dream is too big or that idea is too innovative, don't rock the boat. I remember what he said, because those words, like, they lifted the weight of the world off my shoulders, told me it was OK to dream big. It was OK to buck the status quo. It was OK to be different. He was telling me it's OK to risk failure in pursuit of personal, professional growth. And it's not so much I think he's telling you and me to write ourselves into the script. What he was saying was, don't ever write yourself out of the script, and as leaders and teammates, don't you ever write anybody else or their wild ideas out of the script either.   Wyatt Hornsby 16:08 That is so powerful. I mean, I know that I have that inner critic, that voice that sometimes tells me, “Write yourself out of the script. You're not good enough. You're not going to make it. Why did you do that?” And probably a lot of us do. Naviere, what do you think?   Naviere Walkewicz 16:24 Oh, definitely. I mean, even up to that, she had had that voice in her head, and she shared, right before that clip, she finally got the courage to go into the group commander's office to submit that package. And, you know, the person working at the desk said, “Well, he really only has one, you know, one slot to give so we don't want to waste it on you.” And I think those very specific words make that inner voice, that inner critic, even louder and just kudos to the wing commander for really kind of right setting, I think a perspective that has clearly shaped her life.   Wyatt Hornsby 16:59 I agree completely. And we just talked about Gen. Marks and how he talked about doing good for others as a leader. And I think that's what we saw here with Gen. Matthews and the story that Nicole shared.   Naviere Walkewicz 17:11 Yes. There were so many amazing moments in her session with me, in her podcast, and so another one that I wanted to call out, because I think many may not know until they listen to her full story, but she actually battled a pretty critical, life-changing disease, and, frankly, she talked about resilience and how resilience is important, but really for her, it was about resurgence. I thought that was pretty powerful in that podcast as well. Did that kind of speak to you in any way?   Wyatt Hornsby 17:42 It really did. And I actually think it kind of goes back to “no one wants to lead a scripted life.” I don't think Nicole definitely had that in the script, her health challenge. But it came, and she spoke very honestly about it, about how difficult it was. She had some really, really difficult days, and she found a way forward. She wrote that new script for what she was going to do with the rest of her life. So, that moment really stuck out to me too. Super powerful conversation, and I got the sense too as I was listening to Nicole — and you did such a great job with that conversation — was that she knows who she is. You can tell that she has thought deeply about who she is as a person, as a leader, and she wants to go out and engage with and inspire other audiences and other leaders. So, really came out beautifully in this conversation.   Naviere Walkewicz 18:34 That was, in fact, I think one of her giving nuggets to others that were listening was really take the time to know who you are and know what you believe in, what you stand for, and then the rest kind of fills in the blanks.   Wyatt Hornsby Well said.   Naviere Walkewicz Well, the next one that I want to speak about is 2nd Lt. Madison Marsh, Class of ’23 and Miss America.   Wyatt Hornsby Miss America.   Naviere Walkewicz Miss America. Can we just say that? But what was so great about this particular podcast was, yes, she is Miss America, but we spent so much time getting to know her. And really, I think the depth of who Madison Marsh is, it really kind of blew my mind.   Wyatt Hornsby 19:11 Yes. And similar to Nicole Malachowski — Madison Marsh, she had something really difficult happen to her that she's going to go into in the clip that we talked about, and no one should have to go through what Madison did, but she found a way forward. And I think just her story is remarkably inspiring.   Naviere Walkewicz 19:33 I actually don't want to give it away. I think we should just roll the clip.   Wyatt Hornsby 19:35 Let's do it.   Madison Marsh 19:36 I basically printed out all of my essays that I knew that people had to submit in the past for the Academy. I did resumes. I came with my GPA, everything, and I walked right up to my congressman and I handed it to him, and I said, “I want to go to the Air Force Academy, and I want to be your nominee.” And I'm sure he was like, who's…   Naviere Walkewicz …I love every bit of this…   Madison Marsh So, I was very firm early on, and so we were able to start an incredible relationship with one another. And so, because I did that — I think that was maybe my junior year, early on in my junior year — when it came time my senior year, he fought for me all of the time to get my application in front of people, because I was his principal nominee, and we had a very, very special moment. So, he called me on Oct. 31 and told me that I had gotten early acceptance to the Academy, and so I got to tell my mom, and the next morning she passed away. So having an experience like that is — that's why the Academy and Congressman Womack are so special to me, because that was my dream for years, and my mom got to know before she passed away. And it's just everything happens at the right timing, and you never know until afterwards. And so, now I get to be here; now I get to wear the uniform. And even though she hasn't gotten to see it, she got to know about it. And it just because of those first instances where I marched up to him and I said, like, I want to be here. I got to have experiences like that. And now I get to have wonderful experiences of now serving post-Academy life.   Naviere Walkewicz 21:04 I mean, I think that clip still gives me feelings of in that moment where she shared that because I had known that her mom had passed away. But I think what was so powerful about her sharing that story was in the bit of, you know, believing in yourself, going full for something, and then having someone believe in you and champion you to the point where, when you actually get there, and having her mom spend that with her before she passed. I just — that moment was something really special.   Wyatt Hornsby 21:34 It really is powerful. It must have been an honor and a privilege to have been able to share that moment with Lt. Marsh.   Naviere Walkewicz 21:41 It really was, and I think her whole conversation — what really inspired me, first, the fact that she actually started a foundation in her mom's name, the Whitney Marsh Foundation, but also more so that it actually shaped how she was as a cadet. She talked about, when she had the opportunity to champion others, so, you know, as she progressed in her cadet years, she wanted to make sure that other cadets had someone that they could talk to, so that she would be a voice for them, that she would hear them, and she would see them. And I think that was really powerful, because sometimes she was saying how she had felt lost and how she didn't have that support. And so, she turned it around and made sure that she was that person for someone else.   Wyatt Hornsby 22:19 Another example, Naviere, of someone who uses leadership opportunities to do good for others.   Naviere Walkewicz 22:25 Absolutely. And I thought, what was also fascinating, as such a young officer, she also — to Nicole Malachowski’s point — took some time to know herself because she had been groomed, or maybe not groomed is not the right word, but she had, since early times of wanting to go to the Academy, had thought, I'm going to be a pilot and had been working towards her hours and her private pilot's license to get to the point where she could go to pilot training and become a pilot. And said, “Maybe this, this isn't my trajectory,” and looking into policy and so I think to the point of knowing who you are and knowing what you know you're really passionate about. Also, to what Coach Troy Calhoun said, they all kind of weave together. I thought that was really powerful.   Wyatt Hornsby 23:06 Agree. I thought it was very powerful too. And I'm really excited — I'm sure you are too, and a lot of graduates — just to see what she does with her life. I think that she's going to do some great work, and I think we're going to continue to hear about the amazing work that Madison Marsh is pushing forward, whether it's with cancer research and treatments or some other very, very important, worthy cause.   Naviere Walkewicz 23:29 Absolutely. No doubt about that.   Wyatt Hornsby 23:32 All right. Naviere, this next one, this was early Season 1, and our friend Dr. Doug Lindsay hosted this conversation. Doug is Class of 1992. It really stood out to me, and it was a conversation with Lt. Gen. (Ret.) B.J. Shwedo, Class of ’87. Remarkable conversation with the director of the USAFA Institute for Future Conflict about the role that graduates are going to continue to play in our nation's security.   Naviere Walkewicz 23:59 I agree. Gen. Shwedo is such a dynamic speaker, and every time I have a chance to hear from him, I learn something new. But maybe for the sake of our listeners, in case they haven't heard that one yet, can you talk about what the IFC is?   Wyatt Hornsby 24:10 The IFC is the Institute for Future Conflict. So, it stood up a couple of years ago at the United States Air Force Academy. And really the goal is to inculcate across the Academy — and I'm not going to do this justice the way Gen. Shwedo can — but to inculcate across the Academy a focus on preparing cadets for what they will be facing amid Great Power Competition and for them to be able to bring that holistic thinking and that multi-domain thinking to how to fight and win the nation's wars if they are called upon.   Naviere Walkewicz 24:45 It's pretty incredible, some of the things that our cadets are exposed to. I remember when I was a cadet, I couldn't imagine have been briefed by some of our combatant commanders and having top-secret clearance levels to understand, really, what the adversary looks like and what we're up against. But they're looking at it across all different domains, and it's preparing our soon-to-be graduates for what's up for them right after.   Wyatt Hornsby 25:11 That’s right. And one thing I'll mention before we roll the clip: Like you Naviere, I've heard Gen. Shwedo talk. In fact, we've been in probably many of the same talks, and graduates respond so well to what he shares, and I think it just instills even more confidence in the mission and the priorities of the Air Force Academy. So, without further ado, what do you say we roll that clip?   Naviere Walkewicz Let's roll the clip.   Gen. Shwedo 25:34 What we got to do is make them aware of the environment we're dumping them in. And case in point, I have one cadet he raises his hand like, you know, “Hypersonic missiles — I don't understand what's the big deal about that.” And I go, “OK, well, first of all, yes, they're fast, but as you remember from Physics 110, a ballistic missile trajectory is all mathematics. That's how the Patriot works. Hypersonic missiles can maneuver. So, all your math is now dead,” and go, “Oh, by the way, when you look down the range and you see all those antennas, NORAD, for the most part, was looking up to the north, because the quickest way to get an ICBM to the United States was over the top. You can actually take a hypersonic missile, put it in a low-Earth orbit, and that attack will come out of Antarctica.” Same cadet immediately raises his hand and goes, “So the maneuvering, is that RF, command guy?” and he's immediately trying to get into it. And I'm like, “I love you, man.” Because honestly, when you start making them aware of the threats, they immediately start thinking countermeasures. So, from the leadership standpoint, they understand that piece.   Naviere Walkewicz 26:44 Yes, I think that is huge. And it really talks about understanding what you're up against. I think what I really loved about what Gen. Shwedo said, was having the awareness allowed for them to start thinking about countermeasures. And I think that really does translate to leadership. When you have awareness of things, you can make better decisions. You can think about how you take care of your people better. It just actually translates across so many levels of leadership. What do you think?   Wyatt Hornsby 27:09 I agree completely, and I think too, just spending time with cadets — you would know better than I Naviere, you have two up on the Hill right now — but so curious, so curious. And they're here for a reason. They had choices in where they could have pursued what they wanted to do after high school, and they chose the United States Air Force Academy because they want to serve our country and, if called upon, fight and win those nation’s wars. And so, just kudos to the work not only Gen. Shwedo is doing, but the cadets too, who are just so curious and so responsive to that awareness and really thinking deeply and preparing themselves for what the world is confronting the United States and our allies with.   Naviere Walkewicz 27:53 Absolutely. I think, what I really appreciate about Gen. Shwedo as well is he's another graduate that's giving back to our Academy, right? He's facilitating all of these lessons. He's helping to really promote how we can do this better. But it goes to show how our graduates are really involved with our Air Force Academy.   Wyatt Hornsby 28:12 A lifetime of service. I think that's what Gen. Shwedo would say. He came back because he wanted to continue to serve.   Naviere Walkewicz 28:18 Yes, absolutely. Well, the last moment that we'll talk about — and again, this was so hard, because there were so many good ones — comes from Karl Falk, Class of ’98 the CEO of Botdoc. And this one was special for me, not only because we were at the Academy together, but I didn't know him then, and I know him now as a parent of also a cadet at the Academy. And his story was so, so incredible. Because when you think of a CEO of anything, you think, “Wow, this person's so accomplished. They've done all of these things.” And, you know, they must be doing great, and he is, but it started from humble beginnings. And when you take the time to listen to his podcast, it will really kind of help you see that you can start from anywhere and achieve anything, just as he did. This particular clip I have picked for us to listen to, though, is about kind of having people in your corner, and when people recognize in you, maybe before you do, how they can champion you. Let's give it a listen.   Karl Falk 29:20 You know, being in Texas, there's more spotlight on football, and I had some very good coaches. My head football coach in high school, Coach Bubba Fife — everyone in Katie knows Bubba Fife — and even to this day, he's still involved in the in the school district. But he was a big advocate for me, with coaches that came by, and there's some stuff I didn't find out until out until later in life where, you know, back then, it wasn't common for the school to provide shoes and, you know, some guys had their own pads and stuff like that. And I remember my mom years later telling me that actually Coach Fife came to her with money and said, “This is, uh — get him some shoes.” Sorry. That got to me a little bit more than I thought it was gonna be. So, I guess what I can say is, there's been a lot of people, I'm where I'm today because of a lot of people throughout my entire life, and I have a lot to be grateful for. But I was very fortunate to have those coaches in my life because — there was actually a time, this is actually a crazy story. There was a time where — so, I was the big, fat tuba player too. So, I kind of did everything because I enjoyed it, but there was a point where I kind of had to make a decision, because I was actually the guy that was playing football, and then, you know, marching band and football, and that's really tough to do. And I had made up in my mind that I was going to quit football, and because, you know, I didn't have a dad around, and my mom wasn't really into sports, like, I am and my kids are now. And I made up my mind, so I went to talk to one of the coaches, Coach Schubert, and, and I told him, I said, “I'm gonna quit football and, you know, I'm gonna be in the band.” And, and he looks at me, he goes, “No!”   Naviere Walkewicz 31:22 Right there. Sometimes the best answer you can get from a boss or a mentor or anybody is, “no.” What do you think, Wyatt?   Wyatt Hornsby 31:29 And by the way, Naviere, I'm trying to figure out the logistics. How do you play football and participate in the band? I played football in high school. I just don't know how you do that.   Naviere Walkewicz 31:40 You probably didn't change your clothes. You probably wore your uniform, though.   Wyatt Hornsby 31:43 Oh my gosh, like, I don't even know how you do that. But no, this was an extraordinary conversation. And you know, one of the things I like about the conversations that you've led and hosted, Naviere, is really going back to the beginning. And my takeaway from that conversation with Karl and that clip that we just played: He's never forgotten where he came from. As you said, he's become very successful in life. He's done well for himself, but he's never forgotten where he came from and who helped him along the way. Sometimes, Naviere, it just takes a pair of shoes.   Naviere Walkewicz 32:19 Oh gosh, that conversation was like I was getting to know someone all over again, because I got to know him as a parent of a fellow cadet. Him and his sons, Alec and Arden, were cadets there at the Prep School, now in the Class of ’27, but seeing him through his own eyes, it just opened up a whole new experience for me. And I think one of the things I appreciated about his conversation as well was he talked about some of the tough times in getting to be successful. And while, yes, he had those people in his corner that helped him get there, there were times when — I think he even said, you know, “I didn't pay myself, like we might have missed a meal so that my folks could eat,” when he was still building his business. And I think it talks about the grit and kind of hard work and perseverance it takes to become successful. So, while he never forgot where he came from, he also talked about kind of the path to get there, and just the resilience and all of that in that. And I thought that was a really powerful story he shared.   Wyatt Hornsby 33:13 Agree, and I would suspect that grit and that perseverance, those were formed early in life, but then also really developed when he was here at the Academy. What do you think?   Naviere Walkewicz 33:26 Agree. And I think, and we talked about the lifetime of service that our graduates live. His company has actually given back to the Class of ’27 through various ways. And so, I think it really does kind of show how, you know, you never forget where you come from, and then when you can, you give in ways that are meaningful. I think that's really powerful too.   Wyatt Hornsby 33:44 That's right. Well, Naviere, that was an awesome conversation. I just so enjoyed revisiting those conversations, and again, just mad congratulations to you, and thanks to you and Doug for just doing such a great job. I mean, this was tough, choosing the conversations that we just talked about, because there are just so many great ones, so many great ones. And I hope that our listeners will go back and listen to those conversations from seasons 1 and 2. But while they're at it, also tell others about Long Blue Leadership. Help spread the word, because these conversations are really impactful.   Naviere Walkewicz 34:20 Absolutely, and we can really use feedback coming directly to us at socialmedia@usafa.org. That's a way they can directly let us know what they enjoyed, what we can do better and what they can look forward to in Season 3.   Wyatt Hornsby 34:32 That’s right. I mean, the podcast space, it's competitive, and there are a lot of great podcast shows out there, and so we know we just have to continue to raise that bar and elevate what we're doing. So, our listener feedback is so important and just continuous improvement and excellence in all we do.   Naviere Walkewicz 34:49 Absolutely. Well, thanks. Wyatt. Well, before we share what's coming up in Season 3, we'd like to take a moment and thank you for listening to Long Blue Leadership. The podcast publishes Tuesdays in both video and audio and is available on all your favorite podcast platforms. Watch or listen to all episodes of Long Blue Leadership at longblueleadership.org.   Wyatt Hornsby 35:11 Naviere, this was a real pleasure. I really enjoyed talking about these awesome episodes from seasons 1 and 2. And while we're at it, let's also thank our good friend Ted, who's done just remarkable work in helping to produce this show. And our listeners may not get to hear much from Ted, but he is behind the scenes doing awesome work on the show.   Naviere Walkewicz 35:32 He really is. Ted makes us look great, and when you say congratulations to me, it's only because Ted has been right alongside me all this way, and Doug, and anyone else that's been part of this podcast. It really has been us working with Ted.   Wyatt Hornsby 35:46 So, Ted, I'm going to put you on the spot. Share with us a little bit about maybe a couple of your takeaways from seasons 1 and 2, and what this process, what this experience has been like for you.   Ted Robertson 35:59 I can think about the first day I walked in the door, had my first eyes on the studio, and I'm thinking, “We're gonna have some fun here. We're gonna touch some lives, and we're gonna do some great things.” And it's been a real privilege to be a part of the communications team. And I talk a lot about the people that I work with, but Naviere, you've become a partner, and together, along with everybody else on the team, we're looking forward to bringing some more of these moments to our listeners and just sharing what leadership is all about. And we want to make it global. So, Season 3 coming and lots of great things to come in Season 3. I hope that sort of answers your question. The highlights for me are working with all of you.   Naviere Walkewicz 36:50 Aww, thanks, Ted. And speaking of what Ted was talking about, Season 3 is coming up. Should we share some of the amazing guests we're gonna have on the podcast?   Wyatt Hornsby 36:59 I think we should, Naviere, I mean, I am like you. I am so excited about Season 3. We've got some amazing names and Naviere. One of our guests is going to be Dr. Heather Wilson, Class of ’82, 24th secretary of the Air Force. And she's also currently the president of the University of Texas, El Paso. So cannot wait to have the secretary — I don't know whether to call her Secretary Wilson or Dr. Wilson.   Naviere Walkewicz 37:23 I’m sure I'm going to find out, because I'm so excited to have that conversation with her as well.   Wyatt Hornsby 37:27 Likewise, and Naviere, I think also, we have a classmate who we’re going to be talking to?   Naviere Walkewicz 37:31 Oh, we have a couple of classmates, actually. So, one of them, Joel Neeb goes by call-sign “Thor,” — Class of ’99, Gold Will Shine — who has been a tremendously successful fighter pilot. He's authored some books, a former CEO, but he dealt with some very specific, I think, health challenges that shaped a new trajectory for him. And I'm not going to give it away. I think that's what they'll learn about in the podcast.   Wyatt Hornsby 37:56 I've had a couple of opportunities to spend time with Thor, and I'm excited about this one too. I think it's going to be an awesome conversation.   Naviere Walkewicz 38:03 Yes. And his is one where it really is about family too. I think we're going to hear some of that. And then my other classmate is with the FBI, so Mark McCulloch, Class of ’99, and I think you've actually done a story on him recently on your team.   Wyatt Hornsby 38:17 I think we did a story on him in Checkpoints a couple of years ago, written by Jeff Holmquist. Yeah, I can't wait for this one too.   Naviere Walkewicz 38:26 It's amazing what Class of ’99 is doing, but there's others. Who else shall we highlight today, Wyatt?   Naviere Walkewicz 38:43 We also have some young alumni, current board directors that will be speaking to. One of them is a Young Alumni Excellence Award winner, Emma Przybyslawski, Class of 2010.   Wyatt Hornsby 38:51 Can't wait to hear that one. And Emma — so she recently, as you said, received the Young Alumni Excellence Award. And I thought I knew Emma, and I learned a few things about her in our profile of her. So, that's going to be an awesome conversation.   Naviere Walkewicz 39:06 Can’t wait to speak with her. And then Joe Bledsoe, class president for the Class of 2011, but also working with Gen. Shwedo right now.   Wyatt Hornsby 39:13 That's right. He's a fellow up in the Institute for Future Conflict. And again, just a remarkable graduate, a fighter pilot, really looking forward to that conversation. end of year. One other that I'm really excited about, Matt Kuta, Class of 2005 co-founder of Voyager Space and a former fighter pilot, really looking forward to that conversation as well.   Naviere Walkewicz 39:36 We have so many amazing grads to share stories with, and we could go down the list, but I think that's a good one just to, you know, whet the appetite. What do you think?   Wyatt Hornsby 39:44 I agree completely. I'm just excited about Season 3 and we'll get this going.   Naviere Walkewicz 39:49 Absolutely. Wyatt, this has been a blast. Thank you so much for joining me today.   Wyatt Hornsby 39:53 And thank you for inviting me, Naviere. This was a lot of fun.   Naviere Walkewicz 39:57 Absolutely, and we thank you for joining us as well. We can't wait to share our third season of Long Blue Leadershipbeginning this February. You can expect more compelling stories from outstanding USAFA graduates, each sharing unique perspectives and practical advice on overcoming challenges and inspiring others. With a mix of thought-provoking conversations and real-life experiences, Season 3 promises to engage, inspire and empower both seasoned and aspiring leaders alike. Visit longblueleadership.org for more episodes and to subscribe. Also, nominate a guest or send us your feedback at socialmedia@usafa.org, and finally, Long Blue Leadership is available on all of your favorite podcast apps. We can't wait to see you there.   KEYWORDS leadership lessons, season highlights, guest perspectives, teamwork, perseverance, humility, service, season three preview, Gavin Marks, Commandant of Cadets, Nicole Malachowski, Thunderbird pilot, tick born illness, Lyme Disease, Coach Calhoun, Falcons Football, Madison Marsh, Miss America, Karl Falk, Bot Doc, B.J. Schwedo, Institute for Future Conflict, leadership journey, character development, personal growth, mentorship, resilience, future conflict       The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association and Foundation

In Episode 10 of Long Blue Leadership, Lt. Gen. (Ret.) Burt Field ’79, now president and CEO of the Air & Space Forces Association, discusses his leadership philosophy, and emphasizes the importance of continuous learning, effective communication, family, and the five core values by which he lives. Listen now!   SUMMARY Burt Field, a retired Lieutenant General and CEO of the Air and Space Forces Association, discussed his career and leadership philosophy. He highlighted his upbringing as an Air Force brat, his academic journey at the Air Force Academy, and his early leadership roles. Field emphasized the importance of continuous learning, effective communication, and avoiding being an "asshole" in leadership. He shared impactful experiences, such as leading during the 2011 Japan earthquake and tsunami, and the significance of family support. Field also discussed the Air and Space Forces Association's efforts in advocacy, education, and family resilience, stressing the need for strong national security and defense.   LEADERSHIP BITES 1. Values-Driven Leadership: Burt shared his 5 core leadership values - integrity, fortitude, excellence, teamwork, and service. Defining your values and using them to guide your decisions and actions is crucial. 2. Continuous Learning: Burt emphasized that as a leader, you can never stop learning, whether it's about your organization, industry, or even topics outside your expertise. Staying curious and open to growth is key. 3. Empowering Others: Burt stressed that a leader's job is to empower and inspire their team, not try to do everything themselves. Recognizing and rewarding excellence in others is vital. 4. Effective Communication: Burt noted that leaders can never communicate too much or well enough. Repeatedly delivering clear, consistent messages is essential for alignment and buy-in. 5. Humility and Inclusivity: True leadership requires humility, giving credit to others, and making the organization successful.   SHARE THIS EPISODE LINKEDIN [https://www.linkedin.com/shareArticle?mini=true&url=https%3A//www.longblueleadership.org/e/lt-gen-ret-burt-field-79-5-values-and-a-word-of-advice-for-leaders/?token=b87e9807a5861e58adaa073e88a7849f]  |  FACEBOOK [https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=https%3A//www.longblueleadership.org/e/lt-gen-ret-burt-field-79-5-values-and-a-word-of-advice-for-leaders/?token=b87e9807a5861e58adaa073e88a7849f]   TAKEAWAYS 1. Never stop learning. As a leader, you must continuously learn and expand your knowledge, even in areas outside your expertise. 2. Define your leadership philosophy and values. Burt shared his 5 core values of integrity, fortitude, excellence, teamwork, and service. Having a clear set of guiding principles is crucial. 3. Recognize and reward excellence. Identify and empower those who have put in the hard work to become experts in their fields. This builds a strong, capable team. 4. Communicate effectively, repeatedly. Effective communication is critical, but leaders often underestimate how many times a message needs to be delivered clearly. 5. Burt emphasized the importance of being inclusive, giving credit, and making the organization successful rather than yourself. Avoid toxic, self-serving leadership.   CHAPTERS 00:00 Introduction to General Burt Field 01:52 Growing Up as an Air Force Brat 05:40 Choosing the Air Force Academy 10:26 Life as a Cadet at the Academy 19:09 Leadership Development During Cadet Years 23:15 The Integration of Women at the Academy 24:12 Influential Leaders in General Field's Career 28:28 Learning from Subordinates 34:15 Career Path and Leadership Philosophy 37:54 A Chance Encounter: Love and Military Life 41:13 Building Resilient Families in the Military 42:12 The Journey to Leadership: From Air Force to AFA 45:57 Empowering the Next Generation: Education and STEM 49:46 Leadership Lessons: Insights from Experience   5 FRANK KEYS TO LEADERSHIP SUCCESS 1. "You can never stop learning. You have to learn. And whether it's leadership or anything else, you have to always learn." 2. "Everything comes from your values. When I make leadership decisions, or when I look at how we're going to move forward, or what, how we're going to accomplish the mission, it should reflect those values in my decisions, how I act, how I from the biggest thing of creating a here's the strategy, or in objectives on on what we're going to accomplish, to the smallest things, like how I conduct a meeting." 3. "If you want to be a really good leader, you need to be really good at something. So you got to put in the work when you're young to be really good and understand how hard it is to be really good at something." 4. "You cannot communicate enough, and you cannot communicate well enough. So I use this example all the time. I come up with a message. I craft it, I think about it, I write it down, I practice it, and then I deliver it, and it's awesome. I was perfect. I nobody could have misunderstood me when I'm done with that, and I really think that I have hit the mark with maybe 20% I probably got to say that again, that way or differently, about another 10 or 15 times when I can barely stand to hear myself talk anymore, and I'm still not going to get everybody." 5. "I'm going to give the credit and I'm going to take the blame. That's how you become a good leader."  - Lt. Gen. (Ret.) Burt Field ’79, October 2024   ABOUT GEN. FIELD BIO Lt. Gen. Burt Field, USAF (Ret.), is President and Chief Executive Officer of the Air & Space Forces Association, leading the Association’s professional staff in its mission to advocate, educate, and support the Air & Space Forces. As CEO, he oversees operations and resourcing for AFA and its 113,000 members, including events, publications, and the Mitchell Institue for Aerospace Studies, the nation’s only think tank dedicated to air and space power.   A veteran of 35 years of Air Force service, Field retired from active duty in 2015 following his final tour, as Deputy Chief of Staff for Operations, Plans, and Requirements. Throughout his career, Field commanded a squadron, the Air Force Weapons School, three wings, a numbered Air Force, and a sub-unified command. A command pilot with over 3,400 flying hours in the F-16 and F-22, he served twice on the Joint Staff and completed a tour in the State Department as the military assistant to Ambassador Richard Holbrooke, the Special Representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan. In his last assignment, he led policy and requirements decision-making for air, space, irregular warfare, counter-proliferation, homeland security, and cyber operations. Prior to that assignment, he served as the Commander of United States Forces, Japan, and Commander of 5th Air Force from 2010-2012 where he led the U.S. military response to support Japan during the earthquake, tsunami, and nuclear disaster of 2011.   Following his retirement, he served as the Vice President of Strategic Planning for Lockheed Martin Aeronautics, developing strategies that guided and contributed to over $5 billion in growth in a five-year period. He also managed a $500 million New Business Funds portfolio for independent research and development. Since 2020, he has been an independent defense consultant, served as a subject matter expert working with and mentoring Airmen at all levels, and a member of the Board of Trustees for the U.S. Air Force Academy Falcon Foundation.   Field graduated from the Air Force Academy in 1979 and earned a master’s degree in business administration from Golden Gate University in San Francisco. He and his wife, Lisa, have two sons, both officers in the USAF. - Bio image and copy credit: AFA.org     CONNECT WITH GEN. FIELD LINKEDIN [https://www.linkedin.com/in/burt-field-16819714/] | FACEBOOK [https://www.facebook.com/AirAndSpaceForcesAssociation] | AIR & SPACE FORCES ASSOCIATION [https://www.afa.org/]     ABOUT LONG BLUE LEADERSHIP Long Blue Leadership drops every two weeks on Tuesdays and is available on Apple Podcasts, TuneIn + Alexa, Spotify and all your favorite podcast platforms. Search @AirForceGrads on your favorite social channels for Long Blue Leadership news and updates! https://www.facebook.com/AirForceGrads https://www.youtube.com/@AirForceGrads https://twitter.com/AirForceGrads https://instagram.com/AirForceGrads https://www.linkedin.com/company/aogusafa     TRANSCRIPT SPEAKERS GUEST:  Lt. Gen. (Ret.) Burt Field ’79 | Host:  Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz ’99   Naviere Walkewicz 00:00 My guest today is Lt. Gen. (Ret.) Burt Field USAFA Class of ’79, president and CEO of the Air & Space Forces Association. He spent 35 years in the Air Force, retiring in 2015 as deputy chief of staff for operations, plans and requirements. Gen. Field has held many positions of leadership throughout his career, including squadron command, the Air Force Weapons School and three wings. He has served as a command pilot with over 3,400 hours in the F-16 and F-22. He completed a tour in the State Department as the military assistant to Ambassador Richard Holbrooke. He has also served as the commander of United States Forces, Japan, and commander of the 5th Air Force from 2010 to 2012. In his post military career, he served as vice president of strategic planning for Lockheed Martin Aeronautics. He has been an independent defense consultant and has served as a subject matter expert, working with and mentoring airmen. He is also a member of the board of trustees for the United States Air Force Academy Falcon Foundation. Today, we'll talk with Gen. Field about his life before, during and after the Academy. We'll discuss his role in leading the Air & Space Forces Association. And finally, we'll ask the general to share advice in leadership development. Gen. Field, welcome to Long Blue Leadership.   Burt Field 01:23 Thank you, Naviere. Please call me Burt.   Naviere Walkewicz 01:24 OK, yes, sir, Burt. Will do. And I will say that was quite an introduction. You have had an incredible and ongoing career.   Burt Field 01:30 Well, frankly, and no false modesty, I was lucky to be in the right place at the right time and take advantage of the opportunities presented to me.   Naviere Walkewicz 01:39 Well, I appreciate you saying that, and I think our listeners are really going to enjoy hearing about what some of those right places at the right time kind of look like. But here's what we do at Long Blue Leadership: We like to rewind the clock a little bit and start with Burt as a child. What were you like growing up? Where was home?   Burt Field 01:56 Well, I'm an Air Force brat. My dad was a fighter pilot. I like to say his first assignment was the Korean War, flying F-86s and his last flight was in an F-4 over Hanoi. Now, didn't get shot down, but that was his last flight. So, I grew up traveling around both country and the world and went to a bunch of different elementary schools and then three high schools before I ended up at the Air Force Academy.   Naviere Walkewicz 02:27 Wow. I can imagine some of our listeners have also been some kind of service brat. As I always say, I was an Air Force brat as well. Are you an only child? Do you have siblings?   Burt Field 02:37 I have three sisters. I have one older sister and two younger sisters, which irritated me to no end when I was a kid, but now we couldn't be closer.   Naviere Walkewicz 02:49 So did you get special benefits because you were the only boy of all the girls?   Burt Field 02:53 Of course not. Now, their stories are a little different, but of course not.   Naviere Walkewicz 02:57 Understood. And did they also serve as well.   Burt Field 03:01 They did not. None of them did. My older sister’s a doctor. My next down is an accountant and CFO, and the one below that is a bunch of different medical community things and a nutritionist.   Naviere Walkewicz 03:15 Wow. So, you are the one who followed in the military family footsteps.   Burt Field 03:18 I was, but interestingly enough, I never really thought about it growing up. My dad just happened to be in the Air Force. He just happened to fly airplanes. And you know, whoever you were, your dad was a doctor, lawyer, plumber, dentist, truck driver, whatever, and now let's go play ball. And that's pretty much the extent of it. But when I was in high school, I knew that I needed to start figuring out what I was going to do, because I'm pretty sure my dad wasn't going to let me just lay around the house after I graduated. And I was definitely afraid of being bored, and nothing really sounded good — doctor, lawyer, dentist, plumber, truck driver — none of it was good. So, I came into the house one day in my junior year, and I attribute this to the Air Force Association: The magazine was laying on our coffee table, and it was face down, and on the back was a picture of the F-15, which was one of the brand new airplanes that was coming out. And I looked down at it, and for whatever reason, it clicked, and I said, “That does not look boring.” And I went and talked to my dad, because I figured he might know how to do this. So, he did some research for me, and he said, “Well, to go to pilot training…" And this was 1974 and that's the wind down of the Vietnam War and letting a lot of people out of the Air Force, “…to go to pilot training, you have to be an Air Force Academy graduate, or distinguished graduate from ROTC.” Well, my dad had retired, or was about to retire, and we were going to move to Florida for my senior year, and I was going to go to the University of Florida, like everybody in my family did, except for two, and so I knew that the Air Force Academy would provide me an avenue, and the University of Florida would provide me an avenue to be a bellboy down in a Key West hotel when I graduated.   Naviere Walkewicz 05:18 So you chose the Air Force Academy, of course. So, that's interesting. Forty-five years later, you are now the president and CEO of the Air & Space Forces Association, which was what kind of caught your eye in high school.   Burt Field 05:34 It's really kind of amazing. And the editor of the magazine — they have a bunch of back issues at our headquarters building, and he found that magazine.   Naviere Walkewicz 05:47 Oh my goodness, I hope that's framed in your office now.   Burt Field It is.   Naviere Walkewicz Oh, that's amazing. What a story. And we're going to talk more about that. I really want to hear more about that role, but let's stay in the childhood range a little bit. So you were going to go to the Air Force Academy. Were you already involved in sports? Was that something—   Burt Field 06:06 Yeah, so, I played baseball growing up. We moved around a lot, so it was hard to play a lot of other sports. I did Pop Warner football, played basketball, you know, on teams growing up. And I was a good athlete but not a great athlete, and so I wasn't recruited for going to come here to the Academy. But I played football, I wrestled and played baseball until my sophomore year, when I blew up my shoulder and couldn't throw anymore. Then I just wrestled and played football for the rest of my high school career, and then when I came here, I just played intramurals until a friend of mine that was a couple years older was on the rugby team, and so he kind of said, “Hey, come on out, you'll like this.” And so it was the rugby club back then, and it was a way to get out of stuff in the afternoons when you're a freshman. So I came down and I played on the rugby team for a few years.   Naviere Walkewicz 07:10 I have a lot of rugby friends, and it definitely is, it's a family, for sure.   Burt Field 07:15 It is. And it was really that way back then. It was all local Colorado sports teams. You know, the guys who were 45 and over down to other colleges around the state.   Naviere Walkewicz 07:28 Your extended family.     Burt Field Right.   Naviere Walkewicz So, speaking of family, how did your — I think I know how your dad felt about you wanting to come to the Air Force Academy. How about your mom?    Burt Field 07:37 She was pretty proud of me. Both of them were mad because I only applied to one place.   Naviere Walkewicz 07:44 So, it was here or a bellboy.   Burt Field 07:48 It was here or a bellboy somewhere. But they were pretty proud of me, and they were really proud, obviously, when I graduated.   Naviere Walkewicz So, you came into the Academy. You had a little bit of an idea of what to expect, because your dad had been the military, right?   Burt Field 10:06 Well, no, nobody is prepared for the Academy.   Naviere Walkewicz That’s true.   Burt Field I mean, your dad went to the Academy and…   Naviere Walkewicz They were classmates.   Burt Field And you were not prepared.   Naviere Walkewicz That's true.   Burt Field Because you are immediately thrown into the deep end of a very cold, murky pool and told to start swimming. But the interesting thing: I came out with a few guys from my local area, and the way we did it back then is, you told the Academy what hotel you were gonna stay at, and they came and picked you up in a bus and they drove you onto the Academy and dropped you off at the base of the ramp, and you jumped off the bus, and all your newfound friends started telling you all the things that were wrong with you personally, with your family, your genetics, your upbringing, and how you would never amount to anything ever in your entire life. And then they take you — I wasn't really good with authoritarian figures.   Naviere Walkewicz 11:10 Well, I can imagine, with three sisters, you probably chose your own path, right?   Burt Field 11:15 So, you can imagine — as we're most of my classmates. We all are kind of like that. So, I wasn't sure that this was for me, but it was 1975 and everybody had long hair. So as soon as I got my head shaved, I said, “Well, I'm staying here at least until I get my hair back.”   Naviere Walkewicz 11:37 That was a good thing then.   Burt Field 11:39 That kept me here. And so then I kept staying. But that first day was a bit of a shock, as it is with everybody around here. But, I have a great memory. I was standing in line getting something issued to me, and the guy behind me and I started talking, and he actually graduated from the high school that I spent my ninth and 10th grade in in Las Vegas, Nevada. His name's John Pickitt. And so we became friends, and he's the godfather of our oldest child, along with Tom McCarthy, who you met earlier today.   Naviere Walkewicz 12:16 Wow. I mean, it really is… We talk about family a lot in our podcast, and family spans way beyond blood.   Burt Field 12:26 Yep, it sure does, especially with graduates of the Air Force Academy.   Naviere Walkewicz 12:31 Yes, 100%. Wow. So you jumped into that murky pool and making friends along the way. What was life like for you as a cadet? Were you really strong in your academics? I mean, obviously you were an athlete, because you were doing everything.   Burt Field 12:45 I mean, everybody did that kind of stuff. So, I got good grades in high school, and I got good grades here, except for one semester. So, I was on the supt’s list every semester except for one. That's just the way it was.   Naviere Walkewicz That's amazing.   Burt Field I would do it different now, if I had it to do over again, because I got on the dean's list by cramming instead of doing my homework. And so every young person that goes to the Air Force Academy, I tell them, “There's one way to success and happiness at the Air Force Academy…” I don't tell them this, not that they're going to be happy, because they're not. But I tell them, “Do your homework every night.”   Naviere Walkewicz 13:32 That’s right. I think there was a saying: “If you wait to the last minute, it only takes a minute, but then you get to see…   Burt Field You really reap the results.   Naviere Walkewicz 13:42 Exactly, exactly.   Burt Field So, that's no different than a lot of my friends. And back then, you’re pretty restricted to the Academy, especially your first year, and then gradually you get out more and more. So, it wasn't like we were out and about very much.   Naviere Walkewicz Right.   Burt Field We stayed around here. We worked out a lot. We played games, sports on the weekends, and that was it.   Naviere Walkewicz 14:07 And were you 1 and 3? What was the squadron change like? Was it 2 and 2 back then?   Burt Field 14:13 And so 1 and 3. So, I was in 35 as of Doolie, and the only squadron— 35 and 38, they're still together, but it was carpeted, and we had carpeting, and so we took a lot of heat from people just because of that.   Naviere Walkewicz Because you had it nicer?   Burt Field Yeah, then I went into 27 and graduated from 27.   Naviere Walkewicz 14:38 OK, and your son is also a graduate from your legacy squadron, 27.   Burt Field 14:42 He is. He graduated in 2008.   Naviere Walkewicz 14:43 Love that legacy. Great. What a wonderful legacy. So your cadet time sounds like it was pretty pleasant, or…   Burt Field 14:50 Oh yes, just like everybody's. Everybody leaves here with a love-hate relationship with the Air Force Academy and it changes over time from mostly hate to mostly love. So, that was no different with us. I had a group of great friends, both in my squadron and outside my squadron, from the rugby team and a couple other places. And so it was like — I tell everybody, 13th, 14th, 15th and 16th grade.   Naviere Walkewicz 15:24 I love that. That's a great way to put that into an analogy, yes, because you're still developing.   Burt Field 15:31 Classes, you know, five or six classes a day. I play sports after school. I go home and do homework or avoid homework and go to bed so I can't go out during the weeknights. Can't go out very often on the weekends. And, there you go.   Naviere Walkewicz 15:45 That's right. That's very much like high school, absolutely. So we like to talk about how you developed as a leader, even early on. And so we're getting to know you a little bit better. While you were cadet, did you hold any leadership positions in particular?   Burt Field 16:02 Well, I was the — what did I do? I did something as a third-classman. Oh yeah, chief of training? Or whatever.   Naviere Walkewicz 16:11 Sounds like it could be accurate.   Burt Field 16:12 Back in the day, the the guy that was in charge of training for the freshman. I was an ops officer when I was the, I mean, op sergeant when I was a junior, squadron commander when I was a senior. So nothing hugely out of the ordinary. I like that kind of role and that kind of challenge, but I wanted to stay inside my squadron. So, when I got offered a chance to, “Hey, do you want to be on a group staff or wing staff?” I declined.   Naviere Walkewicz Tell me more. Why?   Burt Field Because my brothers were my squadron.   Naviere Walkewicz OK, I love that, yes.   Burt Field So, I didn't want to leave that for six months or four months, or whatever the time period was back then.   Naviere Walkewicz 17:05 So, leadership in your squadron, and this is interesting, and this is a good topic, because some of our listeners, some of the challenges that they experience in leadership is on a peer level, or maybe, you know, how do you lead someone that you're really close with? How do you earn that trust? So maybe you can share some lessons that you have learned about yourself during that time.   Burt Field 17:24 Well, I always tell people that the hardest leadership challenge that we face is when you have no authority and you still need to lead, and regardless of what we say about cadet squadron commanders, you know, we can all think we're in charge, but we're not that in charge. And so what you had to do is you had to lead by influence and by doing the right thing. And so whether we agree with that, it's the right thing, because I don't want to do it, because it's no fun, because I'd rather do something else. Everybody knows what you have to do at the Air Force Academy on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, on the way through the week. And so we just went and did it. And I encouraged people to come and do it all with me, whether it's doing drill, whether it's playing intramural sports, whether, “Hey, it's your turn to be the referee for this season,” whether we want to go to these whatever it was. So you just encourage people to do that, and then you talk to people and try to empower them so that they can figure that out on their own, and then later pass that on as leaders themselves.   Naviere Walkewicz 18:44 No, those are really great examples. And I think just leadership tidbits that some of our listeners can take, and it really is some of the best ways, just leading by example and then inviting them to join you on that, absolutely. OK, so your cadet career was, I think, really important to you, because it formed you, and it formed you like you said your brothers, because you were the last class of all men cadets together. So how did that translate? And if I may be so bold, you started having women cadets there while you're at the Academy as well. Can you share some of the dynamics of that then at the Academy, and maybe some of the stories that you saw of how that really evolved into a stronger Academy that we have today?   Burt Field 19:26 Yeah, let me put some of this in perspective, and I'll start with a story. I get a large ration of crap from my friends that are in ’80 and ’81 that I'm really close with because of my role in terrorizing the women of the Class of ’80, which I said, “Exactly, what role was that?” Basically, these guys considered us the source of all evil. My perspective was different, and it's just my perspective. When I talked to my classmates, most of them — I'm talking about most of them, not all of them — we were children that grew up and came of age in the late ’60s and early ’70s, which was basically that whole protest movement, grow your hair long, protest the Vietnam War, and we really didn't care that much that women were coming into the Air Force Academy, because most of us were smart enough to know that the only reason that women were not in my class and they were in that class was an accident of birth and the accident of when the legislation passed to do the right thing in the United States of America. So there's nothing special about being the last all-male class. There's nothing special about being the first class that had women in it, other than, you know, it was the end of one way of doing business and the beginning of another way of doing business. To your point, I think it makes the Air Force stronger. It certainly makes our Academy better. While they were here, the first semester, all the women were in one part of the state, in one part of the Academy over in Fairchild Hall. And they were only in 20 squadrons, so 1 through 20.   Naviere Walkewicz In Vandenberg?   Burt Field In Vandenberg, I'm sorry. So we're they were only in 1 through 20 the first semester, for whatever reason. Then they came the next semester to our squadron, and you know, well, one of them I'm still friends with, so, to me, it was a no brainer. I wish I was more profound on this. This is one of the things that my friends from later classes yell at me about. But I didn't consider it to be that big of a deal. I didn't, at the time, think that this is some big historical event and change in the Air Force or the military, or anything else that we could all maybe talk about better today than I could back then. So for me and my friends that I knew, it was not an issue. I don't think I treated women any different than I treated men, and I don't think I treated women or men badly, regardless of my role and their role at the Academy.   Naviere Walkewicz I really appreciate that perspective.   Burt Field Yeah, so, you know, bluntly, most of us just didn't care.   Naviere Walkewicz 22:50 You were there just trying to get through the Academy, right?   Burt Field 22:53 That sounds terrible, but, I mean, I didn't spend a lot of time thinking about social implications of race, sex, gender, however you want to put it. I was just trying to get through the day without getting yelled at, like everybody else.   Naviere Walkewicz 23:12 Thank you for sharing that, because I think it's sometimes a question that people have, and it's really helpful to hear a perspective that really is, “We're all just trying to get through the Air Force Academy, we all come in, and we hope that we all graduate.”   Burt Field 23:23 Yeah, and some of them, very impressive, had huge careers. You know, Susan Helms, just one of my heroes, frankly, as a person, as an officer, that have nothing to do with her role in space. That just makes me more in awe of her. But, you know, there's a lot of great, great people out there, and a lot of them are women.   Naviere Walkewicz 23:49 Yes, thank you. Thank you for sharing that, and I appreciate that you said that. You know, Gen. Holmes is one of your heroes as well. Let's talk about some of those that maybe inspired you in leadership roles. It could be while you're a cadet, or maybe early in your career as an officer after you graduated. Maybe talk about some of those influencers.   Burt Field 24:09 Well, I had some great AOCs. My freshman AOC was a guy that was a Fast FAC in Vietnam, and actually was the guy that gave me a ride in a T-37, which was fantastic and really solidified what I wanted to do. My sophomore and junior year, my AOC was not that guy.   Naviere Walkewicz We learned from those leaders too.   Burt Field We'll probably talk about leadership philosophy later, and if you'll remind me, my last bullet on my leadership philosophy partly came from him. And then my senior year, we had a great guy named Ken Lawrence that came in that several of us are still in touch with. And he was both a welcome relief and a great role model for us as we spent that last year here at the Academy, before we went off. I went out in the Air Force and my first two squadron commanders, the first one was a guy named Tiny West, 6-foot-5, 270 pounds, barely fit into an F-16, and taught me how to fly fighters.   Naviere Walkewicz 25:21 I totally understand his call sign then.   Burt Field 25:24 Just a great guy. A second squadron commander was a guy named John Jumper, who ended up being the chief of staff of the Air Force and is still kind of like a second father to me.   Naviere Walkewicz Oh, wow.   Burt Field Let's see. And then multiple people along the way that you know, from crusty old majors and young captains that taught me how to fly the F-16 and in what we called RTU at the time, now, FTU in how we kind of learn together. Because when my class showed up at Hill in the B course, we went into the 34th at the time, tactical training fighter squadron. We were their first class, and the high-time guy in that squadron with F-16 time had 30 hours. So they were teaching all of us second lieutenants how to do this. Went from there down to Nellis and served under Tiny and John Jumper. So, that was how I started. And there's lots of great people in that time frame that obviously I'm still in touch with, and taught us how to fly. There's my squadron commander in Korea, which was my second assignment, another great role model. And then just on and on. When I came back to Nellis on my third assignment, I worked for a guy named Sandy Sandstrom. Sandy was one of my RTU instructors, also, and we became really lifelong friends. And he and his wife, Jeannie, have sadly passed away, but we, Lisa and I keep in touch with both their children to this day. Yeah. But anyway, there's a lot of great leaders, both above us in squadron commander roles, and then you watch your fellow officers and brothers and sisters, and see and you learn stuff, watching them, how they develop relationships, how they train, how they identify what's important, how they communicate, how they focus, how they connect. All of those things are important, and you can learn something from everybody around you. And if you don't, you're probably missing out.   Naviere Walkewicz 27:48 I appreciate that perspective. I think, especially as someone who is more experienced in leadership, the fact that you are looking to continue to learn and see what you can kind of pick up from those even that support you and serve under you. Can you share an example? Is there one that sticks out in your memory of someone that you're like, “Wow, that's something I really took back”?   Burt Field 28:08 Are you talking about somebody that served under me?   Naviere Walkewicz Mmm-hmm   Burt Field Oh, yeah, so, there's thousands of these. I'll tell you two stories. So I'm a squander commander, and I had a friend, a very close friend of mine, who was a squadron commander, and one of his guys was coming to our squadron, and he said, “This is a great guy. You're going to love him. Really good pilot…,” blah, blah, blah. It's his second assignment. And so he shows up in the squadron and we have about four or five guys about that that time in their career, and they're ready to become flight leads, which is leading flights in the fighter community. And so I put him in without really thinking this through, and one of the other guys came up and said, “Hey, I need to talk to you.” And he came in my office, and he explained to me how I wasn't looking at everybody through the same lens and was probably missing some of the things other people were seeing. And I mean, pretty blunt, pretty focused, not yelling, and just a straightforward conversation. And I sat back and thought for about five seconds, and I said, “Holy cow, Bruce Fisher is totally correct. I have missed the boat on this, and I'm never going to do that again.”   Naviere Walkewicz Wow.   Burt Field And so that was one guy. The second example I have is in Japan when I was a 3-star general. I was there during the earthquake, tsunami and nuclear disaster, and it was a wild time. It started on a Friday. On Monday, so Friday was the earthquake and the tsunami. Saturday was the first explosion in one of the nuclear reactors. Monday was the second explosion in another nuclear reactor. On Monday, I also went up with the Japanese minister of defense and the head of their military to a place up near the epicenter, or the center of where the disaster area was, and they stood up, for the first time, a joint task force in Japan to take to take on the role of trying to work through all the things they had to work through. So we tried to land at the airport and could not. We tried to land at one of the air bases and barely could in a helicopter, in a helicopter. So I flew over Sendai Airport, where we couldn't land, and it was totally flooded, and it looked like when you tell your 5-year-old son to pick up his room and he shoves everything over into the corner, so there's trucks and cars and toys and giraffes and boxes over in the corner of the room and he says, “I'm good.” That is exactly what this airport looked like, except those were real cars, those were real cranes, those were real age equipment that was working on airlines, all swept away into the corner. So came back, and that night, met a guy named Rob Toth. Now we were getting a lot of people in to help, and Rob Toth had actually, he was the commander of the special ops group that was down at Kadena that we had brought up to Yakota. And he said to me, “Sir, my name is Rob Toth.” He's a colonel. And he said, “My guys have been up to Sendai, and I think we can open Sendai in about two weeks.” And I looked at Rob, and I said, “Rob, no way,” except I added a word in between “no” and “way.” And he said, “Sir, I know how you feel, like, I knew you'd feel like that, but just listen to me.” And I said, “No, that thing's not gonna be open until the summer.” And he said, “Sir, hold on. Let me tell you something.” Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm starting listening to him, I'm thinking, “OK, here's a special ops guy telling me how his experts think that they can go up and solve an enormous problem for us. They know how to do this. And I am telling him no, because I flew over it in a helicopter and it was flooded. Why don't you just ignore your opinion and say yes to a good idea?” Because all I have to do is say yes, and the worst that can happen is I'm going to be right. The best that can happen is he's going to be right and they're going to open the airport. Well, guess who was right? Not me.   Naviere Walkewicz He was right. Oh, wow.   Burt Field So, three weeks later, the first airplane, well, two weeks, a week later, the first airplane landed on it, and three weeks later, the first commercial airplane landed there.   Naviere Walkewicz Wow.   Burt Field Just say yes to good ideas.   Naviere Walkewicz 33:14 I think that's a leadership nugget right there.   Burt Field 33:16 And it's all from somebody that, you know, he had never met me before. I'm a 3-star general. He's a colonel. Took a lot of courage to tell me that, and keep persisting when I said, “Forget it,” because I was busy and didn't believe it, and I had just been there, so if you're not listening to people, you're probably not gonna make the best decisions.   Naviere Walkewicz 33:38 That’s an incredible story. Thank you for sharing that.   Burt Field You bet.   Naviere Walkewicz Oh, that's fantastic. So, your career was outstanding. I mean, I think you had the opportunity to really lead and impact a lot of lives by the time you put on your third star. Had you known that was your destiny? When you graduate the Academy you want to be pilot. We knew you went into the Academy to fly.   Burt Field 34:01 To fly fighters.   Naviere Walkewicz To fly fighters.   Burt Field Actually, to fly F-15s.   Naviere Walkewicz 34:07 OK, OK, so very specific.   Burt Field 34:08 Yeah. So I ended up going to third lieutenant to Langley Air Force Base. And I kind of, I was fortunate enough, because I traded with a guy that was from California. I was going to George. He was from California. He had the Langley slot, so we switched, and I went out there because I wanted to fly in an F-15 to make sure I liked it, because it was after sophomore year, before junior year. And I knew that I wasn't all that fired up about the Air Force Academy at the time. It was not the most fun place I'd ever been. And so I wanted to ensure that this was something I really wanted to do. Fortunately, I went to a great squadron, great people. They welcomed us with open arms, and I flew three or four times, five times during that third lieutenant and just loved every second of it. Now, of course, I didn't fly the F-15, except in the back seat a couple times later on. But I was lucky enough to get an F-16 out of pilot training. So 1980, F-16, go through that RTU with those guys, and we're all learning this together and into a squadron where we're all learning this together. Cool part about the first squadron I was in is we had… there was a squadron, which means that we had 25 people in the squadron. So squadron commander, an ops officer, and 23 other folks. And when I went in there, 12 of us were lieutenants and classmates.   Naviere Walkewicz Oh, my goodness.   Burt Field And so it was really cool to go through that experience with people like that. But it's 1980, the Cold War is in full swing. We're pretty sure that we're going to be in a fight with the Soviet Union, and basically I didn't want to die in that fight. And so I figure what you need to do to not die is be the best there is. And I was went to work with a bunch of other guys that felt the same way, and so we helped each other. We competed with each other. We pulled people along. We got pulled along. And we all became really good at what we did. And it was just that drive to be really good at what was important — which was flying — that drove me, and that's what drove me to try to go to the Weapons School. That's what drove me to go back as an instructor. That's what drove me to train people to be the best that they could be, so that when we went to combat, we would all come back, because anybody can lead men and women into combat. I want people that lead them home.   Naviere Walkewicz I'm so glad that—   Burt Field Anyway, so that's what drove me. That's what drove me. You know, because I had friends that didn't come home.   Naviere Walkewicz 37:27 So part of what you've shared with us today, and I think we're really appreciative of how much you're sharing, because I think it gives us a sense of really who you are, and the family aspect with your brothers, the family aspect with your extended family at the Academy, on your teams. When did your family come into play? Because I had the opportunity to meet your wife, Lisa, and she's lovely. When did she come into your life?   Burt Field 37:54 Well, I like to tell everybody that I met her at a bachelor party, which I did. But, we were in pilot training at Willie Air Force Base in Phoenix, and somebody was getting married, and we're going to have a bachelor party, but it already required way too much planning, and somebody had to host it, and that meant somebody had to go buy stuff for it. And basically we just went down to where we went every Friday night, and that was the bachelor party. And I met her that night, and then we just started talking on the phone, and we started dating, and then we got married. And so we got married in 1981 and she's still putting up with me.   Naviere Walkewicz 38:48 Wow. She’s literally been part of your life since the Academy.   Burt Field 38:53 Oh, yeah, so I married her a year and a half after I graduated, and so we have two sons, and both of those boys are in the military. My oldest son is a University of Florida grad.   Naviere Walkewicz 39:06 So he did follow the family footsteps.   Burt Field 39:09 But he's smart. He graduated with a high GPA, and anyway, he's a maintenance officer in the Air Force. And my youngest son is a C-130 pilot in the Air Force, and he's the 2008 grad from the Academy, and he's married to our daughter-in-law, Natasha. And right now, both David and Natasha fly C-130s for the Alaska Air Guard up in Anchorage in Elmendorf.   Naviere Walkewicz 39:36 That’s amazing.   Burt Field So, it’s the family business.   Naviere Walkewicz So, dad, you and your son?   Burt Field 39:39 Not only that, well, one of the reasons, when we bring up Lisa, when I met her, she said, we started talking, and I have short hair, because most people, have long hair. She goes, “Obviously, you're in the Air Force.” And she had told that to her roommate, and I said, “Yeah.” And she said, “Oh, my dad was in the Air Force.” And we said, “Where'd you all live, and what'd your dad do?” Well, her and my dad flew together and so stationed in the same places, sometimes at the same time. And when we went home and called our parents and said, “Hey, do you know this guy or this guy?” Without hesitation, both of them said, “Oh yeah, I know Dave.” “I know Burt,” and so they were in the other squadron. They didn't really hang out together, but they knew each other. So both my dad and my father-in-law were F-100 pilots and fighter pilots. And so Lisa is also an Air Force brat. So both of us are — we call ourselves nomads because we've never really lived anywhere longer than five years.   Naviere Walkewicz 40:44 I used to say that, and now I actually can. But can you claim anywhere longer than five years now?   Burt Field 40:52 No, getting close though. So I've been in five years, five years in a couple places, but never longer.   Naviere Walkewicz 40:58 Oh my goodness, what an incredible story.   Burt Field 41:00 Yeah. So anyway, this is one of the things we're doing in AFA now. And I think the Air Force is Air Force and Space Force are recognizing that if you want strong and resilient airmen and guardians, you need strong and resilient families behind them. And you need to have that kind of family dynamic that's supportive of what you do with your life and what the country is asking of you and your family to be all in and if we can work with the families to change that dynamic, to make sure that we're focused on building strong and resilient families, then the strong and resilient guardian and airmen will come out of that effort. So both the Air Force and the Air & Space Forces Association, that's part of what we're doing these days.   Naviere Walkewicz Before I get into the last couple of questions I want to ask you, what is the best way that anyone that's listening can learn more about the Air & Space Forces Association?   Burt Field  Well, we can go to afa.org, simple as that, and do that. That shows you how to contact us. For another thing, you can join, which is what I would like you to do, and become a member, and then you get access to all of that information. And you can find out how to do that again, on that website. But joining gives you access to that information. It gives you access to what we do. It tells you where the chapters are that are close to you, that are similar-minded people doing similar things. And we have about 120,000 members right now. We have about 230 chapters in every state except Maine, and in several foreign countries where we have airmen and guardians stationed. Those chapters can do a lot of this work, whether it's working with your local government officials, with your state officials, like your congressmen or your senators, and it arms you with the things that you can deliver these messages with. It also arms you with how can I get access to these kind of programs that help with my family, my friends’ family, the people I work with, their family. Where can I direct an airman when she needs some help? Where can I put a guardian in touch with somebody that can help him get through something that he's got a problem with? So, you have a lot of resources at your disposal that can help both you and your brothers and sisters you work with   Naviere Walkewicz  That is outstanding. So I mentioned two questions. I'll start with the first and then we'll come back after a short break. The first one is, some of our listeners aspire, at some point to be a C-suite executive. What's the coolest thing that you've done, or that's happened for you since being CEO?   Burt Field  Oh, man, that's a hard question.   Naviere Walkewicz  Well, take a minute to think about that. But first we're going to take a moment and thank you for listening to Long Blue Leadership. The podcast publishes Tuesdays in both video and audio, and is available on all your favorite podcast platforms. Watch or listen to all episodes of Long Blue Leadership at longblueleadership.org. So have you had a chance to think about something cool that's happened since you’ve been CEO?   Burt Field  I would say that the coolest thing about this job is that you get some pretty good access. Because of what we try to do in support of the Space Force and the Air Force, I've been able to spend some time with the chief, the CSO and the secretary. And you know, the vice chief, the vice CSO, chief master sergeant of the Air Force, chief master sergeant the Space Force. So that part has been really interesting to me. Next week, I'm going to something with Secretary Austin, and so that that's kind of interesting. And then we do some work up on the Hill. And so I've been able to go up there and meet a few of the members up at the Hill. The good news, though, is that I knew a lot of those guys already, so, you know, because I'm old and. But it's still good to be able to listen directly from a leader on what he or she really is trying to communicate, as opposed to get it interpreted by somebody else or through some rumor or, “Here's why their vision doesn't match up with what I know we should be doing.” So, it helps us in our mission to kind of advocate for those strong forces when you know exactly what the leadership is thinking and what they're driving at.   Naviere Walkewicz  No, that's powerful, and that's transparency that you're able to bring to the members of your organization and all of their families. So, we like to leave our listeners with kind of leadership lessons, and I wanted to go back earlier in our conversation. You said, “Remind me to tell you about a leader that's shaped one of my bullets, maybe on how not to lead.” Or something to that effect. So what are your lessons of leadership that you want our leaders to take away today from you?   Burt Field  Well, so first off, you can never stop learning. You have to learn. And whether it's leadership or anything else— when I was in Japan during that disaster, I didn't know the first thing about nuclear power plants. Virtually nothing. I knew that there's some kind of nuclear reaction. They put something in water. It made steam power to turbine. Viola, you have electricity, period. There's a chance I might not even know that. So, I found a couple books that in the three or four hours a day that I didn't have work, I read so I could learn about nuclear power plants, the effect of nuclear radiation on the human body. What we can with withstand, what makes you sick and what kills you. So you have to always learn. And that goes double for being a leader, and you can never rest on your laurels. And so, I have been fortunate to be in a lot of different leadership positions and work for a lot of great leaders, most of them military, but some of them civilian as well, like Richard Holbrooke, a completely different leadership style than most military people. In fact, when I was working for Richard, my direct report was the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, Mike Mullen. And I talked with Adm. Mullen virtually daily, and my other virtual three-times-a-week conversation was with Dave Petraeus, who was running Afghanistan at the time, because of what a Richard's job was and they always want to know what he was thinking. So, it was interesting to watch all three of those who have three distinct leadership styles and learn from take the best from all of that. It was a learning experience. But the upshot of it is, having been exposed to people like that and being able to ask them questions about leadership, why they did things, helped shape my leadership philosophy. So, one of the things that I think everybody should do is kind of define what they think leadership is and have a leadership philosophy. And so, the way I look at leadership, it's, how how do you empower people? How do you inspire people? How do you get people to get the job done? Because you can't do it yourself. You're not going to win the war, you're not going to make all the sales, you're not going to get all the gross profit, you're not going to reduce all the expenses, you're not going to fight all the fights. You're going to be part of a team if you're going to be successful. So, how do you inspire that to happen? And how do you ensure that that team that you're building has the resources that they need? And resources come in all shapes and sizes. Some of it is equipment, some of it is money, some of it is the people that are in those roles? Do they have the education, the training, the experience and access to what they need to be successful? So that's what your job is, in my opinion, as a leader. And then how you go about doing that? You need to have a list of things that you do. So I start with values. You should have a set of values. For the cadets listening, and you're going to go into the Air Force, the Space Force, and if you cross commission into something else, every one of our services has a set of values, which are your values. Now you can have more, but your values include those. But at my stage of life, I have about five, and it's integrity, which everybody knows, and most people say, “Hey, that's when you do the right thing when no one is looking.” In the last four or five years, I added a second one to that, and I call it “fortitude.” Fortitude is when you do the right thing when everybody is looking. Then excellence. You know, from Excellence in All You Do. Teamwork and service. So those are my five values. And so when I make leadership decisions, or when I look at how we're going to move forward, or how we're going to accomplish the mission, it should reflect those values in my decisions, how I act, how I from the biggest thing of creating a here's the strategy, or in objectives on what we're going to accomplish, to the smallest things, like how I conduct a meeting. So, that that's the second thing. So everything comes from that. I think you need to be really good at something. If you want to be a really good leader, you need to be really good at something. So, you got to put in the work when you're young to be really good and understand how hard it is to be really good at something. Normally, when we “grow up,” in quotes, and become leaders of large organizations, there's a whole bunch going on in that organization that you will have little or no expertise in, but you know how to recognize excellence, and you know how to recognize effort that it takes to become excellent. And so you can look for those because you've seen it in yourself. So, that's the other thing. The next one is communication. You cannot communicate enough, and you cannot communicate well enough. So I use this example all the time. I come up with a message, I craft it, I think about it, I write it down, I practice it, and then I deliver it, and it's awesome. I was perfect. Nobody could have misunderstood me. When I'm done with that, and I really think that I have hit the mark with maybe 20%. I probably got to say that again that way or differently, about another 10 or 15 times when I can barely stand to hear myself talk anymore, and I'm still not going to get everybody. So, one of the things that you have to recognize as a leader is you're probably miscommunicating. So, you have to check and recheck to make sure that the message is going out the way you think it should be heard. So, communication is really important, and probably one of the biggest things that infects an organization is somebody misperceiving what somebody else is communicating, and then they get mad, and everybody's feelings get hurt, and on it goes. And we've all seen that. I told you about the “say yes to good ideas.”   Naviere Walkewicz  That was fantastic. Burt, is there anything that I didn't ask you that you would really like to leave with our listeners today?   Burt Field  I think we pretty much covered it, and I appreciate the opportunity to come on and chat with you and watch your act, because you're very comfortable doing this, and I need to take some lessons from you.   Naviere Walkewicz  Thank you so much for that compliment. And I must just say it has been a pleasure being on Long Blue Leadershipwith you. I can't wait for our listeners to hear more about your story and the way that you will, I think, affect great change for our Air and Space Force leaders.   Burt Field  Thank you, Naviere, it's really an honor to be on here and I appreciate the opportunity to share some of the lessons that I've been able to learn throughout my career, and also what the Air & Space Forces Association brings to the table, and why our cadets and our grads and all those out there who care about strong Air Forces, strong Space Forces, a strong national security and defense in the future.   Naviere Walkewicz  Thank you so much.   KEYWORDS Air Force brat, leadership philosophy, Air Force Academy, rugby team, squadron commander, family dynamics, career progression, leadership challenges, communication importance, resilience, Space Force, education programs, family support, military service, leadership lessons       Long Blue Leadership is a production of the Long Blue Line Podcast Network and presented by the United States Air Force Academy Association of Graduates and Foundation

Col. (Ret.) Nicole Malachowski ’96 shares her insights on leadership, resilience, resurgence, perseverance, advocacy, and how she continues to serve her country, even after her military career. ----more---- A SHOW NOTE:  There are two ways to learn from Col. Malachowski's leadership journey.  - If you're short on time, the audio version delivers the highlights of her stories in 40 minutes. Her leadership bites, takeaways, keys to leadership and transcript are below.  - The video version is 1:46:00 and is well worth the investment of your time. This version includes stories and details about the Colonel's journey she hasn't shared before. Click the "Play" button in the video above and settle in for a most enlightening conversation.    SUMMARY Col. (Ret.) Nicole Malachowski ’96 is a trailblazer who has broken barriers in both military aviation and advocacy. She was one of the first women to fly combat fighter aircraft, accruing more than 2,300 flight hours in six different aircraft and serving in multiple high-stakes missions, including Operations Deliberate Forge and Iraqi Freedom. But her story doesn’t end there. As the first woman to fly with the U.S. Air Force Thunderbirds, a White House Fellow, and a key advisor on military and veterans' issues, Nicole’s career has been defined by leadership at the highest levels. After being medically retired due to a Tick-Borne Illness, she turned her focus to advocacy, leading efforts to improve care for the wounded, ill, and injured service members through the Air Force Wounded Warrior Program. Now a passionate advocate for Tick-Borne Disease research, Nicole serves on several national committees and advisory boards, including the Department of Defense's Congressionally Directed Medical Research Program.   NICOLE'S LEADERHIP BITES * "Leadership is a journey." * "The runway behind you is always unusable." * "Don't think you have to be perfect to be a leader." * "Believe those who believe in you." * "Nobody wants to lead a scripted life." * "Courage, compassion, and curiosity drive me today." * "It's okay to admit when you make mistakes."   SHARE THIS EPISODE LINKEDIN [https://www.linkedin.com/shareArticle?mini=true&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.longblueleadership.org%2Fe%2Fcol-ret-nicole-malachowski-96-how-a-leaders-defied-lifes-gravity%2F%3Ftoken%3D328aa7f96356047c125f8b1526f8eb11]  |  TWITTER [https://x.com/intent/tweet?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.longblueleadership.org%2Fe%2Fcol-ret-nicole-malachowski-96-how-a-leaders-defied-lifes-gravity%2F%3Ftoken%3D328aa7f96356047c125f8b1526f8eb11] |  FACEBOOK [https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.longblueleadership.org%2Fe%2Fcol-ret-nicole-malachowski-96-how-a-leaders-defied-lifes-gravity%2F%3Ftoken%3D328aa7f96356047c125f8b1526f8eb11]   TAKEAWAYS 1. Leadership is personal - It's about understanding what motivates and drives each individual on your team, and tailoring your approach accordingly. 2. Believe in those who believe in you - Mentors like Mick Jaggers who supported and encouraged Nicole were pivotal in her development as a leader. 3. Don't write yourself or others out of the script - As General Matthews told Nicole, "Nobody wants to lead a scripted life." Embrace opportunities to dream big and take risks. 4. Radical acceptance is key - When Nicole's military career ended unexpectedly, learning to accept the situation allowed her to move forward and find new purpose. 5. Personal values guide your path - Nicole's core values of courage, compassion and curiosity have been instrumental in navigating life's challenges and reinventing herself.   CHAPTERS 00:00  The Journey of Leadership 02:01  Colonel Malachowski's Early Life and Aspirations 06:01  Navigating the Air Force Academy 09:46  Leadership Lessons from Soaring 14:07  Overcoming Challenges in Pilot Training 17:50  Key Leadership Experiences in the Air Force 21:59  Becoming a Thunderbird Pilot 25:47  Transitioning to Civilian Life 30:02  Advocacy and New Beginnings 34:09  Personal Values and Resilience 37:54  Final Thoughts on Leadership   NICOLE'S KEYS TO LEADERSHIP SUCCESS * Leadership is a journey that requires growth and learning. * It's okay to admit mistakes and seek help. * Resilience is key to overcoming challenges. * Personal values guide decision-making and actions. * Mentorship plays a crucial role in personal and professional development. * Failure is often the price of entry for success. * Authentic leadership is about understanding and connecting with people. * The importance of representation in leadership roles. * Transitioning to civilian life can be a new beginning. * Embrace opportunities and seize the moment.   ABOUT NICOLE BIO Colonel Nicole Malachowski (USAF, Ret.) is a pioneering leader whose distinguished career spans combat aviation, military advocacy, and public service. As one of the first women to fly fighter jets, Nicole’s journey included over 188 combat hours and multiple leadership roles, including F-15E Flight Commander, Instructor Pilot, and Flight Lead. She also made history as the first woman to fly with the USAF Thunderbirds. Throughout her career, Nicole demonstrated exceptional leadership, serving in high-level roles such as a White House Fellow and Executive Director of the ‘Joining Forces’ program, where she advised the First Lady and Dr. Jill Biden on veterans' issues. After being medically retired due to a neurological Tick-Borne Illness, Nicole transitioned to a new mission: advocating for service members, veterans, and others impacted by chronic illnesses. She’s a leader in the national Tick-Borne Disease community, serving on key advisory boards and government committees, and actively mentoring wounded veterans through the Air Force Wounded Warrior Program. Nicole is also a sought-after speaker, author, and consultant, sharing her experiences of overcoming adversity and breaking barriers to inspire the next generation of leaders. Her accomplishments include two master's degrees, induction into the Women in Aviation Pioneer Hall of Fame, and founding her own speaking and consulting firm. Today, Nicole continues to serve and lead, using her story to drive change and impact communities across the country.  - Adapted from Col. Malachowski's bio at nicholemalachowski.com   READ NICOLE'S FULL STORY HERE [https://nicolemalachowski.com/pages/about]     CONNECT WITH NICOLE LINKEDIN [https://www.linkedin.com/in/realmalachowski/] |  FACEBOOK [https://www.facebook.com/NicoleMalachowskiLLC]  |  INSTAGRAM [https://www.instagram.com/realmalachowski/]  |  NICOLE'S LINKTREE [https://linktr.ee/realmalachowski]     ABOUT LONG BLUE LEADERSHIP Long Blue Leadership drops every two weeks on Tuesdays and is available on Apple Podcasts, TuneIn + Alexa, Spotify and all your favorite podcast platforms. Search @AirForceGrads on your favorite social channels for Long Blue Leadership news and updates! https://www.facebook.com/AirForceGrads https://www.youtube.com/@AirForceGrads https://twitter.com/AirForceGrads https://instagram.com/AirForceGrads https://www.linkedin.com/company/aogusafa     ABRIDGED AUDIO TRANSCRIPT DOWNLOAD THE UNABRIDGED VIDEO TRANSCRIPT HERE [https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/js3jcj8nh3zshuc7/LBL_S2_EP008_NICOLE_MALACHOWSKI_TRANSCRIPTION_UNABRIDGED_VIDEObv9r7.pdf]  SPEAKERS GUEST:  Col. (Ret.) Nicole Malachowski ’96  |  HOST:  Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz ’99   SPEAKERS Naviere Walkewicz, Nicole Malachowski   Nicole Malachowski  00:11 You know, leadership is a journey. We're always put into positions that we're supposed to grow into. Don't think you have to be perfect to be a leader. It's okay to admit when you make mistakes, it's okay to ask for help, and it's okay to have failures, as long as you overcome them. And I like to remind folks at all levels of leadership, you know that the runway behind you is always unusable. All you ever have is the runway that's in front of you.   Naviere Walkewicz  00:34 My guest today is Colonel Retired Nicole Malachowski, USAFA class of ’96. Her career has been nothing short of extraordinary. Colonel Malachowski is perhaps best known as the first woman to fly as a pilot with the Thunderbirds, a singular distinction that set her path to reaching even greater heights. However, what you might not know is that her journey took an unexpected turn when she faced a sudden life altering loss of her place in the Air Force. The challenges that followed were extreme and personal, but through them, Colonel malikowski demonstrated a resilience and strength that not only transformed her own life, but also empowered her to help others with their own struggles. In today's conversation, we'll dive deep into the personal and professional journey that led her to transition to civilian life, the lessons she learned from the hardships she faced along the way, and how she now advocates for others, sharing the wisdom she's gained from the tough battles she's fought and won. We'll also take a look back at her time at the academy, her experiences as a pilot and the leadership principles that have guided Colonel malikowski, she has become a powerful voice for resilience, perseverance and leadership, and I'm excited to hear her insights on all of these topics. Colonel Malachowski, may I call you Nicole?   Nicole Malachowski  02:34 Yes, please.   Naviere Walkewicz  02:34 Welcome to Long Blue Leadership, and thank you for being here.   Nicole Malachowski  02:37 Thank you for having me.   Naviere Walkewicz  02:38 It's a pleasure. It truly is. I think one of the things that's so exciting for our listeners is really getting to know you. And you know, I think there's no question about who you are in the media, I mean, all the things you've accomplished, but some things that are most special is when we just sit down and kind of get to know you behind the scenes.   Nicole Malachowski  02:53 Indeed, let's do it.   Naviere Walkewicz  02:54 So let's go back to even before the Academy. Where did you grow up? Where are you from? And what were you like as a little girl?   Nicole Malachowski  03:00 Sure, yeah. So I was actually born in central California, in a town called Santa Maria, and I was born, I consider very lucky, because I was born a woman in America, so there was a lot of opportunities, you know, afforded to me. Also very lucky to be born into a solid, you know, middle class family, you know, I was a kid who always had a roof over my head and food on the table, which makes it a lot easier, right, for you to seize opportunities and to be your best. And think it's important that we acknowledge that not everybody is born into that position. And so I was very, very lucky, I will tell you, I was definitely the loner, definitely an introvert. Always have been. A lot of people would be surprised by that, but I am a solid INFJ on the Myers Briggs, but as a young kid, just very quiet, kept to myself. I was very much a dreamer, very curious about things, so I loved to dive into books. I loved school. I was the kid that would take my lunch box, you know, out into the middle of the football field by myself and just stare up at the sky and the clouds moving by, and dream about things. I remember being in the Girl Scouts during junior high we moved down towards Southern California, where I learned about Civil Air Patrol, and then from there, in high school, we actually made a big move to Las Vegas, Nevada. I continued my time in Civil Air Patrol as a cadet, but also joined the Air Force Junior ROTC at my high school.   Naviere Walkewicz  04:16 I'm just drawn to this visual of you with your lunch box in the middle of the football field looking up at this guy. So were you dreaming about flying?   Nicole Malachowski  04:24 I was, you know, I went to an air show when I was five years old, and I remember seeing an f4 phantom fly by, and it flew by so low, and it was so loud, I had to cover my ears. And I remember, like, my chest rumbling, you know, the smell of jet fuel. And I remember thinking, man, like there's a person in there, like, I want to be, you know, that person. And I had come from a family that, you know, honored and respected military service. So both of my grandfathers were career military my father had been drafted into the army during Vietnam. So I knew that, like, you know, military service was honorable and noble and good. And when I discovered that that was a military plane. I remember as a kid putting one plus one is two. I'm like, wait, you can fly jets and serve in the military. That's what I'm going to be. And wow, that was around 1979 and that's right, there are no boundaries on things. So looking up at the sky, watching planes, and of course, in high school in particular, moving to Las Vegas, Nevada, because Nellis Air Force bases there. So, I mean, I would watch the red flag launches and watch how those jets fly. And of course, I would see the six ship of Thunderbirds flying by as a kid, thinking that was pretty cool. So to be honest, I set my sights on the Air Force Academy in elementary school.   Naviere Walkewicz  05:34 Oh, my goodness.   Nicole Malachowski  05:35 Yeah. So when I was five and decided to be a fighter pilot, you had decided, I mean, I was maniacally, maniacally focused. I did not have a backup plan. I am so lucky that things worked out because I have no idea what else I would have done, you know, with my career, but I remember in sixth grade, I wrote a letter to the Air Force Academy. They responded. The admissions office responded with a personalized letter letting me know I'm kind of young to apply now, but here's the application process. They sent me a whole bunch of Air Force Academy swag, and that was it sixth grade. I was going to the Air Force Academy, goodness, when you were actually old enough to apply. Now to the academy.   Naviere Walkewicz  06:13 Let's talk about that process. What was it like for you? Well, I mean, I think it was more exciting than anything else. I told you. I had stayed maniacally focused. I was very particular and organized about prioritizing how my application would look. So of course, I strove to have the good grades, and obviously stayed involved with the activities like Civil Air Patrol or participating in sports like running cross country and track, as well as doing, you know, community service type activities. So I was indeed focused on making sure that application looked good. I remember the thing I was probably the most nervous about were those interviews with your, you know, senators and your representatives, and wondering if I was going to be able to interview well. So I was, you know, putting my best foot forward. And I remember my senior year, it was approximately October, maybe coming up on November about this time, right? And I went to the mailbox to get the mail, and I had the application had already been in, right? Because everything was done before the fall, and I saw this giant envelope from the Air Force Academy. And I thought, No way, because it's only like October or November. And I started shaking, and I opened it right there at the mailbox. I had to go up the street. I opened it, and I feel bad because I think I littered like the envelope all over the street, but I remember opening it up, and the first line was, congratulations. You know, you've been accepted to the class of 1996 and I instantaneously just started crying and running as fast as I could back to my house.   Naviere Walkewicz  07:38 Had you been to the Academy prior to the acceptance?   Nicole Malachowski  07:41 No, never stood a foot on at all. And I remember when my parents came to drop me off for for Jacks Valley and everything basic training, when we came up over that hill, over Monument Hill, and you can see the chapel and the kind of imposing, you know, white buildings on a hill, I was like, Oh, wow, that's extraordinary. And I was really just excited. People ask, were you nervous that day? I was not, because I was just so happy that this, to me, was like the first step of the rest of my life. It was that first real step towards this goal of serving my country, you know, like people my family had, and getting to fly jets while I do it, how cool is that? I don't remember any highs or lows. I do remember I got my enjoyment becoming a cadet, you know, soaring instructor pilot.   Naviere Walkewicz  08:28 So let's talk about that. That is a, kind of a key leadership role as well.   Nicole Malachowski  08:32 Yes, that was my leadership role. So my senior year, I was the cadet soaring squadron commander. Oh, let's talk about Yes, yes. So obviously, between freshman, sophomore year, I signed up as soon as I could, you know, to take soaring, and when I discovered that you could actually apply to be a soaring instructor, and I remember that was a really like growth experience, because it's one thing to be able to fly a glider, it's another thing to be able to try to teach somebody how to do that. And I really, I I give a lot of credit to this, you know, sorry, instructor upgrade program teaching me the skills of, how do you communicate something technical? How do you communicate something hard, this idea that you need to be able to communicate it not just in one way, but two or three different ways, because each of your students is going to come at it with a different skill set or a different perspective or a different personality that responds to different type of teaching. So learning how to tailor your instruction and your care and your leadership to each individual was something I learned here, you know, as a sophomore, this idea that I would carry that on into my career as a leader and, you know, ultimately into being, you know, a fighter squadron commander. This tailored leadership actually started here, but soaring is what was my respite. Soaring is where I refilled that tank. It's one thing to be successful yourself. It's a whole different level to teach somebody else to be successful.   Naviere Walkewicz  09:55 So you knew you enjoyed Well, obviously you enjoyed the flying? And soaring, the leadership aspect, I think, was something that was new to you then. Or had you done that in Civil Air Patrol? Did you also have leadership there?   Nicole Malachowski  10:06 Yeah, I had leadership experience in Civil Air Patrol, but I think this was a different level. You know, my senior year becoming the cadet soaring squadron commander, it was really cool, because not only were you trying to take inputs from your peers and your colleagues on things we could improve or do differently, you know, valuing the other cadets opinions. But how do I translate that to leadership? How do I go now and talk to the real officers, the active duty officers in charge, and go, these are maybe resources we need, or things culturally, you know, that we need to change, and that was hard for me, you know, because I had never done that before. How do you advocate for your peers in a way that's understood, you know, by the active duty leadership. So that was really something that, again, would become important in my military career, because when you're put in a leadership role, you know, it's about, I think, advocating for the people who you are, you know, accountable for and responsible to, yes, and so how can you do that and do it in a way that it's received? Well, yes, you know, by the leadership above you,   Naviere Walkewicz  11:07 After you graduated from the Academy, you went on to pilot training.   Nicole Malachowski  11:11 I was slated to go early right after graduation, and I was a casual status Lieutenant flying gliders. Of course, went out for a jog and broke my ankle. So this would be my first kind of little, little detour. And I ended up, they offered me to go, to go to shepherd a lot later, or as soon as my ankle was healed, I could go to Columbus Air Force Base Mississippi right away. And I said, I gotta go, like, I cannot sit around and wait. I want to go to Columbus Air Force Base Mississippi. And everyone's like, what you're going to turn down, like, the chance of going to fighters to like, have to fight for it at Columbus. I like, I can't be stagnant. I need to go. So showed up at Columbus Air Force Base Mississippi, and again, really grateful for all of the flying experience that I had. I think that just those foundational procedures, you know, foundational knowledge, was vital to being a little more comfortable than other people that didn't have that experience. It was easy to be slightly ahead of the curve early on, but as I like to tell people, I fell flat on my face across the starting line my second check ride in pilot training, I failed. Now, pilot training at that time was about a year long. There were about 10 check rides, and at that time, failing one check ride, statistically, traditionally, would take you out of the running for graduating high enough to be a fighter pilot. This was devastating to me, and I remember even having fleeting moments that night of like, maybe I should just quit. Now this is, of course, the youth in me, right? I'm a 21 year old kid, and I'm just getting a little bit emotional about it, but if I can't be a fighter pilot and I just knock myself out of the running, I should quit. And I didn't call my parents because I didn't want to tell them I was too, like, embarrassed maybe, to say, like, hey, my dream that you all have supported is about to come to an end, because I messed up, and I made a really junior varsity mistake. And so I called my mentor, Sue Ross, and then she just let me talk, and she's like, are you done? And I'm done. And she goes, Well, are you going to do that again tomorrow? And I said, Sue, how am I supposed to get back in the jet tomorrow? How do I face my peers? I've been telling them I'm going to fly strike Eagles this whole time. Like this is so embarrassing. What if I fail again? What if I fail again tomorrow? And I remember, she talked me off the ledge, man, you know, and I came away. I came away with that conversation, realizing that indeed, I think I rarely believe failure is the price of entry for achieving something great, because if you have the right mindset, you come away with failures, I think a lot more committed, a lot more dedicated, a lot more focused, and I think a lot more humble, and all of those characteristics and traits are good things. You know, it worked out for me, and I did finish fourth in my class, and I had an extraordinary class. It was a time of great cultural change in the Air Force, because we were the first group of women to come through pilot training with the option of flying fighter aircraft.   Naviere Walkewicz  14:04 So talk about your time while you're in uniform. You had some key leadership positions. You were squadron commander. Can you share some of your stories with that and maybe even some high points and some lessons learned, where you as a leader felt that maybe, maybe it was a low point or a failure, but you grew from it?   Nicole Malachowski 14:20 Sure, sure. Yes. I mean, I had so many, you know, different fun assignments. You know, obviously when you're in your first fighter squadron, I got out at RAF Lake and Heath out there in England. I mean, what a rage right to be a lieutenant flying strike Eagles at 500 feet, 500 miles an hour, up Loch Ness, to live in the dream, you know, becoming in my second squadron, which was at Seymour Johnson Air Force Base, becoming a, you know, flight lead and upgrading to instructor pilot. Very nervous to go into the instructor pilot upgrade. I went in very young. In fact, when I got to that squadron, the weapons officer said, hey, I want to put you in the instructor upgrade. And I was like, no. Away like I am not ready for that. I am not good enough for that. And I was new to the squadron. There were people technically older and more experienced than me. They were in the queue, and he wanted me to jump the queue, a guy by the name of Michael Jaggers, call sign, Mick, I'm still friends with him to this day, and I remember I avoided him. I avoided him like the plague because I did not want to upgrade to instructor. And I remember saying, Mick, I just am not sure I can do this. And he looked at me, and he said, it's not your job to get through it. It's not your job to get through it alone. It's my job. It's my job to ensure you have what it takes and what you need. It's my job to teach you to be a good instructor. So your success is going to be my success. I will not let you fail. What a glorious man, what a wonderful instructor. And the lesson learned here to people is this, believe those who believe in you. Believe those who believe in you.   Naviere Walkewicz  15:52 It's true, though it really is. And those people, I think sometimes your trajectory can change or just like, accelerate, because someone gave you a little bit of courage that you just needed that little piece.   Nicole Malachowski 16:03 And to learn as I gained experience and credibility how to replicate that and how to be that person for other people, right? Because it's about turning around. It really is about lifting up other people. Your success isn't your own. It's how can you help other people achieve the best of themselves? And that's what you know Mikey and Mick did for me. And of course, the rest, you know, being history, because then I had the credentials I needed to apply to be a Thunderbird. And then from the Thunderbirds, I could become a commander, yada yada, you know, but being an instructor pilot, again, in the F 15 e how extraordinary to teach a brand new pilot or WSO, not only to fly the aircraft, to how to employ it as a weapon system and then to turn around and go to war with them. There's no bigger honor. There's nothing, I think, more humbling than that.   Naviere Walkewicz  16:49 Can you share something that maybe you learned from the perspective of how to lead better?   Nicole Malachowski 16:55 So let's be honest, when you go into a fighter squadron, things are a little bit one note, right? I mean, we all are cut from a similar cloth. We all kind of have similar personality traits. You know, you don't want your fighter pilots any other way, putting the effort into understanding what drives and motivates individuals. So learning at that age how to put your arms around everybody that you're responsible for, not just the ones that maybe are easiest to lead, or maybe the ones you're the most comfortable, you know, interacting with as a leader is, how do I figure it out? You know, there were some guys that, if I were to call them on up to the front of the room, in front of the whole squadron, to compliment them on something they did, maybe a check right they had. Or this goes for my fighter squadron command as well. You know, they would love it, right? Because it it was how they were extrinsically motivated, and that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. If that's what they need, and that's what you need to do to get the best of their strengths and best of their commitment go for it. And then were others that low? If I were to bring them in front of their peers to compliment them, they would shut down and never talk to me for the rest of the you know, their assignment. And so that's where I would take the time to write a handwritten note, maybe put it on the seat of their Humvee, or put it in their helmet, you know, in the fighter squadron. And then when they'd see me walking down the hallway, we give the knowing nod that they were acknowledged for their awesome, whatever it was, and we would move on.   Naviere Walkewicz  18:13 Yes. And so what I'm hearing, in a really, kind of summarizing way, is leadership is personal.   Nicole Malachowski 18:19 Very. it's all about people and it's about authenticity and connections.   Naviere Walkewicz  18:25 So speaking about personal and authenticity, I'd be remiss if we didn't talk about your journey to the Thunderbirds.   Nicole Malachowski  18:31 I knew this was gonna come.   Naviere Walkewicz  18:32 It's here, and so you know it is. It's a different time. There was no woman Thunderbird pilot before you.   Nicole Malachowski 18:40 I grew up in Las Vegas, Nevada, so the Thunderbirds were part of the backdrop. I knew that the Thunderbirds, you know, as a kid, were special and were considered, you know, elite. And kind of going back to my personality, I love being told that, you know, you can't do things. And the truth is, people laugh at this, but the truth is, when I applied to be a Thunderbird, I did it because the way my career was going, I wasn't ready to, I wasn't on timeline to go to ide yet or to go to ACSC, but I had, like, a weird year kind of gap, and I didn't they didn't really know what to do with me. I didn't know what to do with them, and my husband was going to be PCs in the Nellis. This is, like, a true story. Wow. I know people want me to say, well, I had this big, long dream when I was Thunderbird. Also thought about it was always in the background. Is something that, you know, wasn't, was an option. And I, you know, because of a lot of people who put a lot of effort into me, I was indeed qualified, you know, to get in there and to give it a try. But it wasn't something that was like an ultimate goal. I did not know they had not had a woman Thunderbird pilot when I applied, did not even occur to me. Remember, I had never known an Air Force without women fighter pilots in it. That's right, that's and we had all achieved the age where we had acquired the hours needed, and it just lined up with the timing. And I'm like, Well, that would be kind of fun and different to do. And. So I always tell people, you know, when you get those butterflies in your stomach that says, This could be something cool, something different, that is your cue to go do it. Don't worry about what anybody else is saying. And so, you know, I was able to put that application in. And in fact, I was I put that application in, and when I went and told everyone I was going to apply, generally speaking, people were really tickled and happy and happy and supportive. But as the days went by, people started to think about it. I heard, you know, it's too hard to be a Thunderbird, you probably won't get picked. I mean, statistically, no one gets picked to do that. They've never had a woman before. Are you sure you want to do that and this and that? And I remember the day I turned my application in. This was back when you still had hard copies, and you still had to mail them, okay, 2005 took it over to the group commander's Chief of Staff, slid it across the desk. I was super nervous, because the voice in my head was like, Nicole, other people become Thunderbird pilots, not you. That was the other people become Thunderbird pilots, not you. What are you doing? Why are you risking this? But I kept thinking, what's the worst that's going to happen? I don't get picked, like most people don't get picked, and I go back to flying strike Eagles with my community, which I love, like life is good, right? Either way, it's a win, win. So as I slid that application across the desk, said, I'm applying to be a Thunderbird. Here's my application. I remember the staff looked up to me and said, you know Nicole, It's hard to be a Thunderbird. You know Nicole, you probably won't get picked. And the exact words were, you know Nicole, they've never had a woman before, and the colonel can only stratify one person in that moment. Let's, I think there's leadership lessons here, because this person was not trying to be mean, right? What was coming out was, I think the unconscious bias all of us have to check ourselves on every day at all ages. I think what was coming out were the cultural paradigms of the Air Force at that time. And I think what was coming out, you know, were other people's expectations about what I should or shouldn't be doing. And in that moment, the truth is, I grabbed my application and I took it back, I went across to the officers club and grabbed a beer like any good fighter pilot would, and I remember thinking, thank God I didn't put myself out there. Thank God Nicole, you know, now I'm a 30 year old captain, so I'm still a young person, you know. Thank God you didn't risk failure. Who are you to think you could be a Thunderbird, silly girl, right? And in that moment, the weirdest thing happened. And I tell this story on stage, sometimes the door opened to the officers club, and in walk the Wing Commander, Brigadier General Mark Matthews, for whatever reason, comes over and starts talking to me. Now, this is weird, right? I'm a captain. He's a brigadier general. I don't know why he was talking to me, you know, like walking amongst the people that day, or, you know, just making small talk. And so I'm trying to hold my own talking to him a little bit nervous. It's a little you're probably still feeling a little bit down from totally down. And in that moment, over walks my squadron commander, a wonderful man by the name of Dan Debree. His call sign was, trash. Get it? Trash, debris. Trash. Walks over, super excited, very supportive of my application. And he's like, Hey, General, did you know Nicole's applying to be a Thunderbird now? Man, I mean, you could have slowed down time. I was like, ixnay on the underbird Fae like, this is terrible. Neither of these guys knew that I had removed my application. And Dan's standing there all proud. He's my squadron commander supporting me. A great man again. And Mark Matthews looks down at me, general Matthews, and he goes, that's great. How's your application going? And I'm like, I looked at him, and here's what happened. I said, you know, sir, it's hard to be thunder, but I probably won't get picked. They haven't had a woman, so I don't want to waste anybody's time.   Naviere Walkewicz  23:11 Oh, you said, I said it.   Nicole Malachowski  23:13 I said all of it. And this is kind of an embarrassing story to tell, but I'm just this is the truth, right? This is the vulnerable truth of how this happened. And and he looked down at me, and I will never forget this. And I hope folks listening who have big dreams and gnarly goals remember this. He looked down at me and he said, Nicole, actually. He said, Fifi. My call sign, Fifi. Nobody wants to lead a scripted life. And he walked away and left me in extraordinarily uncomfortable silence. And those words nobody wants to lead a scripted life have become my life's mantra. Every time I get the knot in my stomach that says that dreams too big or that idea is too innovative, don't rock the boat, I remember what he said, because those words, like they lifted the weight of the world off my shoulders, told me it was okay to dream big. It was okay to buck the status quo. It was okay to be different. He was telling me, it's okay to risk failure in pursuit of personal professional growth, and it's not so much. I think he's telling you and me to write ourselves into the script. What he was saying was, don't ever write yourself out of the script. And as leaders and teammates, don't you ever write anybody else or their wild ideas out of the script, either. And so nobody wants to lead a scripted life. And I, I hope what you're hearing in these stories, and maybe what I'm realizing just chatting with you, is these little turning points, these pivot moments where these really important people, the mark Matthews, you know, the Mikey whiteheads, the Mick Jaggers, the Sue Rosses, the Kim Jamesons, they all come at that right moment. You got to be open to that you know, and and how important your actions and your words are to making or breaking somebody else's journals.   Naviere Walkewicz  24:48 Yes, yeah, so you took that application back.   Nicole Malachowski 24:52 Sure did. Sure did. I did not get the number one stratification from the colonel, but I did from the general. And. So that worked out for me. When I really started thinking about, I think I was putting myself back in the kid in high school with her brown bag lunch out on the football field watching the Thunderbirds fly over that can tend to see that those six jets smoked behind in red, white and blue, screaming over your high school. You know, you wanted to be a fighter pilot. Since you're a kid, I'm staring up at them, thinking, there's people up there. You know, I want to be one of those people. This idea that there would be a little kid watching me as a Thunderbird pilot, and maybe someday go, maybe I could fulfill whatever my dream is. Maybe I could join the Air Force too, a little girl going, maybe I could be a fighter pilot someday. And I think the gravity and the weight of the mission of the Thunderbirds started to really impact me, because it had indeed impacted me as a kid, and the idea that I could be a part of that. And I think the other thing was, and maybe this sounds cheesy or trite, but it's not, you know, sitting at Al UD, drinking my one beer at three in the morning after I land from my night combat mission, sitting with all these great Americans from all over the country, from every different background, and thinking, I could go tell their story, and that's what Thunderbirds get to do. You get to represent the world's greatest Air Force and tell the stories of these airmen who are out there getting the job done, those tech piece those crew chiefs, you know, the folks that are working at the tower, the folks in the food hall, our medical professionals, the cyber the whole thing, right? And all of a sudden it got really exciting to me, like I could go out there with this team, with this mission, and we could represent our friends with the honor and the dignity and the respect that they deserve. And I think those two things kind of collided together, and I started getting really excited about excited about this Thunderbird thing. Ended up back at Lake and Heath painfully excruciating waiting for the vinyls. And when we got back from Iraq, they give you the kind of three weeks of downtime. My husband was a gracious man and took me on a Cruise of the Baltic Sea. We're sitting in our cabin in Oslo Norway, and the phone in the cabin rings. The phone in your cabin, phone in my cabin rings. It's about 10 o'clock at night, but full sun outside, because it's summertime in Norway. And immediately we looked at each other, and both of our heart we've talked about this, both our hearts sank, because why does a phone call come to military people on vacation? It's not never it's never good. Yeah, and I was a flight commander at the time. So was he we immediately thought something disastrous had happened, an aircraft accident, a death, you know, a car accident. And we let it ring another time, and he's like, You need to pick it up. And I picked it up. And I said, Hello. And they go, is this Captain malikowski? I said, Yes. And they go standby for the commander of Air Combat Command. Oh my gosh. And I looked at my husband, and I was like, What is going on? Well, I knew this was the consolation call. There was, I think, I think there was five or six of us who had made it to finals. Three people were getting good position. The other were not. And it is tradition that the commander of Air Combat Command calls all six, coach is very gracious and professionally courteous. And so I thought this was my consolation call. So I'm waiting, and it feels like an eternity, and all of a sudden I hear Stevie there, and I said, Yes. He goes, Ron keys which was General. Ron Keyes, Commander, Air Combat Command. I'm a young captain. I'm like, you've got to be kidding me. And I go, sir, how are you? He goes. We have a pretty amazing Air Force that we can find you in the middle of the Oslo Norway fjord, don't we? I said, Yes, sir, we do. He goes. Well, I know you're on vacation, so I want to keep it simple. I want to offer you a job. And I said, Yes, sir. He goes. How would you like to be Thunderbird number three? And I said, I stayed as professional as I could in my voice, but I was looking at my husband gesticulating, jumping up and down like you're not gonna believe I said, Sir, I would absolutely love that. He goes, Okay, great. You're the next Thunderbird number three. Look forward to watching you fly and get back to your vacation. And he hung up the phone. You know, the Thunderbirds are, at that time, 125 people from 25 different career fields who came together to make that mission happen. Wow, never been in a squadron with that many high performing, highly motivated people in my life. I am still dear friends with my crew chief, still friends with people on the team. It is such a crucible experience. It's a one off, you know. Well, fast forward. Finish up the Thunderbirds. I get a phone call. He goes, it's Viking blurling. I'm like, How the heck did this guy that I met once get my phone he goes, Hey, when I was an Air Force officer, a young fighter pilot, I did acse as a White House fellow, and I think you should be a White House fellow. I said, Well, what's the White House Fellowship? So he explains it to me, and I'm like, there is no way I will get picked as one of 12 to 15 people across the United States, across all career fields, including civilians, to be a White House fellow. Colin Powell was a White House fellow. I am not a White House fellow. This is ridiculous. So I entertained his conversation. He says, I want you to think about I'm gonna call you back tomorrow, same time. Boom. Phone rings. Viking borling, you're applying to be a White House fellow, no, sir. I'm not. Third day ping. Phone calls. You're applying to be a White House fellow. Anyways, I applied to be a White House fellow. Went through that whole process, semi finals, regional panel interviews, and then the finals, and was selected to be a White House fellow. I got assigned outside of the White House to the US, General Services, Administration, yes, like, it was exciting. And I was like, this is where the nuts and bolts happen? Well, the GSA also runs what's called the office of the president elect. Between election and inauguration, the incoming president and their team needs to have a place to get ready, like our current incoming administration is doing. It's a physical office building where they make decisions about cabinet secretaries, or they get their intelligence briefings and all of that. Guess who got put on the presidential transition support team to be up close and personal for the peaceful transition of power between George Bush and Barack Obama? Wow. The extraordinary part about the White House Fellowship was most of the fellows were civilian, and I had been nothing but military since I was 17 years old and showed up at the Air Force Academy. So to be able to look at leadership and teamwork and professionalism from a completely different lens, to see how people from the education field or from healthcare would solve a problem was fascinating. You know, we in the military can look to solve problems a very specific way, and a lot of us are a little bit very specific in how we do it. And so to learn how to look at problems and solve things in different ways was extraordinary.   Naviere Walkewicz  31:23 So your career trajectory is just really incredible. Because you've kind of talked about how you've been put in these places based off of circumstance, but then when you get there, it's all about, how do you make the most of it, seize the opportunity and see what's available.   Nicole Malachowski  31:38 A lot of times, you know, as human beings, we go, Well, I don't have this, or I can't do this right now, or not resource this way, man, find a way. Yeah, ask yourself the right question. What is it I can do right now with what I have?   Naviere Walkewicz  31:49 Well, that makes me feel like that's a really good lead into kind of what circumstantially happened to you, unexpectedly. Yes, so you're medically retired from the Air Force. Do you want to talk about how that happened?   Nicole Malachowski  32:00 And sure, sure, you know, the the greatest honor of my career was serving as the commander of the 3/33 fighter squadron. I enjoyed that, and I remember also during that time being physically fit, mentally fit, spiritually fit. And I remember feeling ill in the summer of 2012 like I had the flu, but within three months, I started having severe neurological problems, so things like word finding, slurring my words, inability to read write, inability to type, dropping things with my right hand, dragging my right leg, getting lost, driving home, and I remember going into a grocery store and having a complete panic attack because I didn't know what a grocery store was or why I was in there so very Alzheimer's dementia like symptoms. So in fact, what was happening was my brain was becoming inflamed with an infection. So over the next four years, my symptoms would wax and wane. They would come and go, they would change in severity. Obviously, I could no longer fly. I was grounded, but they said, Hey, you can stay in the Air Force. You just can't fly. And I said, that's great, because honestly, I just want to lead airmen. Lead airmen and be a part of a team. So, you know, there's a lot of details, you know, to this story, but my symptom list was like 63 symptoms long, covering every system in my body. And so they cast the net wide, and that's where tick borne illness came into it. And at that time, I was in a wheelchair. I couldn't talk. My husband was wheeling me around, and I remember when the doctor said, we come on in. We have the diagnosis. We know what's wrong with her. The doctor says she'll never fly again. And my husband said, Well, how long until she's better? And she goes, Well, treatment is going to take at least two years. And it was in that moment, it wasn't that I wasn't going to fly again, that hurt. But when they said two years, I knew that the military was going to medically retire me, I knew it was over, and I couldn't speak or say anything, and I was just devastated. I remember my goal was to be the commandant of the Air Force Academy. That was my dream. And all that just came crashing, you know, crashing down. And in that moment, so for nine months I couldn't walk, talk, read or write. I spent another year and a half in rehab, and during that time, obviously went through my medical evaluation board, but I was medically retired, I fought to stay in and then I realized my body wasn't gonna let me and once I accepted that it was over, you know, I was able to move forward so radical acceptance was a hard thing to come by. But the day of my retirement, December 29 2017 came, I was home alone because I was bedridden and house bound for two years. Um, was very hurtful. Remains hurtful. How my Air Force career ended. I love the Air Force based on all the stories that I told, but this moment is very painful for me. It still is. And, you know, I thought, well, what are you going to do about it? You know, you can't. Change that you were bit by tick, can't change that you have a brain injury. What are you going to do? Girl, you know, the fighter pilot in you is not going to quit. And that's when I decided, well, I'm going to, you know, I got to do something. And the phone rang, and the phone rang, and it was during this time, a gal by the name of Buff Bucha, retired colonel, had been in a helicopter accident broke her neck in Afghanistan. She said, Hey, how you doing? I said, I'm not good. She goes talk to me, and I remember for two hours just vomiting everything out to this person I didn't really know very well. Well, she was calling from the Air Force Wounded Warrior program, wow, and the Wounded Warrior program swooped in to save me, and I ended up becoming a trained ambassador and a trained mentor, which I still am to this day. I'm able to help other airmen who are being discharged, but I just want to give a shout out to the Air Force wind Warrior Program, psychologically and mental health wise, I don't know that I would have recovered, and that I would have recovered to the place that I am today without them. And so I want for the active duty, listening for people in the reserve and the guard. It is for you, yeah, it is for everyone, and it is literally a life saving program.   Naviere Walkewicz  32:45 Maybe talk about what you've been doing then since.   Nicole Malachowski  36:16 Yeah, I do leadership consulting and professional speaking, but predominantly, that helps pay the bills, and I enjoy it. Predominantly, I do patient advocacy work at the national level, so I'm on several government boards. I'm on several nonprofit panels. We've tripled them, and IH funding through the state and like TicK Act and things like that. I'm currently on a National Academies of Science Committee. Can't talk about that because our report will come out in the spring. I hope everyone will read it. But Lyme disease, I went from being a fighter pilot to being an expert on ticks and Lyme disease. Who knew the path to success is always going to be non linear.   Naviere Walkewicz  36:49 Yes, you also mentioned you have children. You have twins. Do so how is it talk about, like family life in this new kind of in the way that you're working now, right? You're not in uniform anymore. You're still pushing amazing things forward. You're consulting what's it like being a mom?   Naviere Walkewicz  37:06 Man, it's harder, it is harder to raise 14 year old twins than it is to get shot at  in combat, I will tell you that. So you know, the person that's been missing in this whole time we've been talking is the most important person in my life, which is my husband, Paul. So we will be married. We just, yeah, just had our anniversary. 23 years. I met him in my first fighter squadron in the late 90s. He's an F-15E WSO. So we met flying together. And my biggest cheerleader, my biggest supporter, the greatest human being on Earth, is my husband, Paul.   Naviere Walkewicz  37:38 I want to talk about this resurgence, because I feel like that is really important for some of our listeners. When they're, you know, they're thinking about you said you got to know who you are and what's important to you. And how did you get to that clarity?   Nicole Malachowski 37:52 You really need to be able to answer the question, what is it I value and why? And I'm talking about your personal values, the ones that you're going to wake up with every day and go, these are my values. And so I'll tell you what mine are. Mine are courage and compassion and curiosity, and I developed those as I went through this deep thinking and deep reinvention, when I lost my career and compassion, courage and curiosity are what drive me today.   Naviere Walkewicz  38:18 We'll ask for Nicole's thoughts on reinvention, resilience and leadership. But before we do that, I'd like to take a moment and thank all of you for listening to long blue leadership. The podcast publishes on Tuesdays in both video and audio, and is available on all your favorite podcast platforms. Watch or listen to all episodes of Long blue leadership and subscribe at longblue leadership.org so we have had an incredible journey together, and really where we'd like to go. One final thought on leadership, if you might, leave your listeners with something about leadership, and I can say just from being in this short amount of time with you, your your 3 Cs are coming out in spades, your compassion, your curiosity and your courage. So thank you.   Nicole Malachowski  39:01 Thank you. You know leadership is a journey. We're always put into positions that we're supposed to grow into. Don't think you have to be perfect to be a leader. It's okay to admit when you make mistakes, it's okay to ask for help, and it's okay to have failures, as long as you overcome them. And I like to remind folks at all levels of leadership, you know that the runway behind you is always unusable. All you ever have is the runway that's in front of you.   Naviere Walkewicz  39:25 Well said, well said, Thank you so much for being on long blue leadership.   Nicole Malachowski  39:29 Thank you for having me. And here's a shout out to the current cadets that are working hard up on the hill, yeah, wishing them best and hoping they take it one day at a time.   Naviere Walkewicz  39:36 Absolutely. And for our listeners, I mean, I think that it's, it's it's certainly one thing to say, you know, you get to meet these incredible leaders, but my ask of you is to share this with your networks, because it's great if you felt something and you've had an impact in your life, but imagine the magnitude you can have by sharing some of the stories of our leaders like Nicole today with your networks and the change we can make together. So until next time, thanks for being on. Long blue leadership, thank you for joining us for this edition of long blue leadership. The podcast drops every two weeks on Tuesdays and is available on all your favorite podcast apps. Send your comments and guest ideas to us at social media@usafa.org, and listen to past episodes at longblueleadership.org.   KEYWORDS leadership, resilience, resurgence, Air Force Academy, mentorship, aviation, women in military, pilot training, overcoming adversity, personal growth, fighter pilot, mentorship, leadership, Thunderbirds, women in military, self-doubt, White House Fellowship, WASP, Air Force, personal growth, diversity, WASP, Air Force, medical retirement, resilience, leadership, Lyme Disease, tick-borne illness, self-discovery, personal values, reinvention, advocacy         The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association and Foundation

In this episode of the Long Blue Leadership Podcast, Cadet First Class Andrew Cormier opens up about his inspiring journey from growing up in Massachusetts to becoming a squadron commander at the U.S. Air Force Academy. He reflects on the early influences that shaped his values, the value of community service and service before self, sharing the leadership lessons he’s learned along the way.   SUMMARY Andrew also talks about launching his own podcast, designed to help fellow cadets explore their career paths and grow as leaders. Throughout the conversation, he highlights the importance of understanding diverse career opportunities, the personal growth that comes from podcasting, and the power of community engagement. With a focus on national pride and perspective, he emphasizes that true leadership is about serving others—putting the team first rather than seeking personal recognition.   5 QUOTES 1. "It's not about you. It's not about you. It's about the team." 2. "When you're a leader, it's your job. There shouldn't be any extra, you know, kudos given to you. Everyone has their own piece in the puzzle, and just because your face is more prominent than others does not mean that the mission is any less doable with like one piece missing or another piece missing." 3. "I just really urge people to try to understand other people's perspectives and listen more than they talk, because those pieces for me, like I'm a Pretty staunch capitalist, but I recently bought the Communist Manifesto. I want to understand where these ideas stem from." 4. "American ideals are amazing, and they need to be protected. And in order for me to have any say in that, I need to have skin in the game. And that's what I look at my service as is me gaining skin in the game." 5. "It's not difficult, it's just super time consuming and kind of annoying. And so, I mean, it even like stays true to today, everything I have to do isn't necessarily difficult. I'm a management major. I don't know what the Astro or aero people are going through. I'm sure that's very difficult. But for me, it's more just like getting the reps in it, and it's very gradual." - C1C Andrew Cormier ’25, October 2024   SHARE THIS EPISODE LINKEDIN [https://www.linkedin.com/shareArticle?mini=true&url=https%3A//www.longblueleadership.org/e/c1c-andrew-cormier-25-service-before-self-lessons-in-leadership/?token=472436a4f416209a6482b78199c99284]  |  TWITTER [https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?text=Check%20out%20For%20the%20Zoomies!https%3A//www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=https%253A//www.longblueleadership.org/e/c1c-andrew-cormier-25-service-before-self-lessons-in-leadership/?token=472436a4f416209a6482b78199c99284] |  FACEBOOK [https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=https%3A//www.longblueleadership.org/e/c1c-andrew-cormier-25-service-before-self-lessons-in-leadership/?token=472436a4f416209a6482b78199c99284]   CHAPTERS 00:00:  Introduction to Cadet Andrew Cormier 02:52:  Andrew's Early Life and Background 05:52:  Discovering the Military Path 08:46:  Community Service and Humanitarian Efforts 12:10:  Transitioning to the Air Force Academy 15:07:  Experiences in Basic Training 17:57:  Leadership and Followership at the Academy 20:47:  Becoming a Squadron Commander 24:11:  The Role of a Squadron Commander 27:12:  Starting the Podcast Journey 34:54:  Understanding Career Paths in the Air Force 39:30:  The Impact of Podcasting on Personal Growth 44:45:  Engagement and Value in the Cadet Community 52:36:  Navigating Post-Graduation Decisions 01:00:05:  The Importance of National Pride and Perspective 01:04:53:  Leadership Lessons: It's Not About You   ANDREW'S 5 KEYS TO LEADERSHIP SUCCESS 1. Leadership is not about you, it's about the team. As a leader, your job is to represent and protect your people, not focus on personal privileges. 2. Seek to understand different perspectives and listen more than you talk. Don't take American ideals and freedoms for granted - they need to be actively defended. 3. Balance future planning with living in the present. Don't become overly fixated on the future at the expense of enjoying the moment. 4. Perseverance, critical thinking, and resourcefulness are key to success. Rely on these core strengths rather than trying to control everything. 5. Diverse experiences and mentorship are invaluable. Seek out advice from those who have walked the path you want to follow, and be open to learning from a variety of backgrounds.   ABOUT ANDREW BIO C1C Andrew D. Cormier is a cadet at the U.S. Air Force Academy (USAFA) in Colorado Springs, CO. Cadet Cormier is the commander of squadron 15, the Mighty War Eagles. C1C Cormier is originally from Fitchburg, MA and entered the Air Force Academy in June of 2021 following his lifelong passion to “serve others.” Throughout his cadet career he has held the squadron position of Diversity & Inclusion NCO and Spark Innovator, but on an unofficial level has hosted the “For the Zoomies” podcast interviewing over 75 officers to better understand their experiences in the Air Force for the sake of helping cadets make career decisions, as well as been a widely trusted barber in the dormitories. C1C Cormier plans to complete his Bachelor of Science in Business Management in May 2025. Immediately following graduation he intends to commission as a Second Leiutenant in the U.S. Air Force and become an Acquisitions Officer. - Copy and Image Credit: Andrew Cormier    CONNECT WITH ANDREW LINKEDIN [https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-cormier-21841020b/]  |  INSTAGRAM [https://www.instagram.com/for.the.zoomies/]  |  TWITTER [https://www.twitter.com/ASAF_IE]   RECOMMENDED LISTENING:  FOR THE ZOOMIES PODCAST with C1C Andrew Cormier   LISTEN NOW! [https://open.spotify.com/show/2hGIi75d6ydm7d0PanbXjf]     ABOUT LONG BLUE LEADERSHIP Long Blue Leadership drops every two weeks on Tuesdays and is available on Apple Podcasts, TuneIn + Alexa, Spotify and all your favorite podcast platforms. Search @AirForceGrads on your favorite social channels for Long Blue Leadership news and updates! https://www.facebook.com/AirForceGrads https://www.youtube.com/@AirForceGrads https://twitter.com/AirForceGrads https://instagram.com/AirForceGrads https://www.linkedin.com/company/aogusafa     FULL TRANSCRIPT SPEAKERS GUEST:  C1C Andrew Cormier  |  HOST:  Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz ’99   Naviere Walkewicz 00:00 My guest today is Cadet 1st Class Andrew Cormier, USAFA Class of ’25. Andrew stands out among the finest examples of those who have taken the service-before-self aspect of their work as developing leaders very seriously. In Andrew's case, he helps and supports his fellow cadets by guiding them to their optimal career paths through the guests and their experiences on his podcast. This is a new approach for Long Blue Leadership, and one we think you'll appreciate, because we're looking at leadership through the eyes of one who both follows and leads, thriving in both spaces. We'll talk with Andrew about his life before and during his time at the Academy. We'll ask where he's headed when he graduates. We'll discuss the role he's taken on as a podcaster, and we'll ask how he's successfully led and followed. We'll end with Andrew's takeaways and leadership tips. Andrew, welcome to Long Blue Leadership. We're so glad you're here.   Andrew Cormier Thanks for having me, Naviere.   Naviere Walkewicz Absolutely. So it's got to be a little bit different being on the other side of the podcast mic.   Andrew Cormier Yeah, no, it's definitely interesting to be here. I've done a few before, but they weren't in person, and this was like the highest quality, so I have a little bit of imposter syndrome, not gonna lie.   Naviere Walkewicz Oh goodness. Well, we'll learn from each other, right? I think that's the best. We can always be learning; we can always get better. So, I'm excited to take in some of the things that you do as well. Feel really good about that. Well, one of the things we like to do on Long Blue Leadership is we rewind the clock a little bit. Some clocks are further rewound back than others, and so I'm really excited to kind of get to know. Where were you before the Academy? Where'd you grow up? What was life like?   Andrew Cormier OK, I'm not as chronologically advanced, like, relative to maybe my experience in high school. I grew up in Fitchburg, Massachusetts, lot of pride coming from the East Coast. My parents, my dad, he worked as a general contractor, so I spent a lot of summers laying tile, you know, doing framing houses, all that sort of stuff, just like, you know, a general laborer. Honestly, just like sweeping up a lot of dust and mess, as he actually did all the hard work. And then I went to a tech school, Montachusett Regional Vocational Technical High School. That's a mouthful, but I went there mostly because my brother went there. I wasn't a huge decision maker back then, like I consider myself somewhat now. And I studied machine technology, and working on metal pieces like running lathes and mill machines and electronic discharge machines, just to — I didn't really know what preparing for the future was like, but that was the kind of path I was on. But then, I grew up playing hockey and lacrosse, and I realized that I had an opportunity with that somewhat, and I was traveling the East Coast playing lacrosse. Think it was after a tournament in Ashton, Pennsylvania, me and my dad got a phone call from Coach Wilson, the Air Force Academy lacrosse coach, saying, “Hey, we saw you play this weekend. We'd love to have you out.” And so that's like a really quick rundown of where I come from, but I guess moral of the story: I really appreciate the background, the kind of blue-collar experiences that I've had when it comes to growing up in Massachusetts.   Naviere Walkewicz No, that's awesome. And I think it's, it's great know that you're not afraid to get your hands dirty, to work hard and grit. I mean, that kind of is also synonymous with hockey. I feel like you work hard, you dig. So let's talk about that a little bit more. Older brother then. So you're one of two? Any other siblings?   Andrew Cormier Yeah, just me and my brother.   Naviere Walkewicz OK, and so what was it like growing up with an older brother? You know, were you always the one that he got to test things on? Or what did that look like?   Andrew Cormier No, my brother — he's about three and a half years older than me, so we never really were in school at the same time. He was always, four grades ahead. So we went to all the same schools, but he was leaving just as soon as I was arriving. But no, he was a great big brother. I was more of like the wild child, me and my mom will sometimes look at the family videos, and it's me kind of just being this goofball, like not appreciating things, like complaining, whining, all this stuff while Zach's over here, trying to help me. Like, I remember this video: We lived in this house where the driveway was very steep, and so we would just like drive our little like plastic carts down the driveway right, and my brother was over here, like, trying to push me up the hill, and I'm over here, like yelling at him—   Naviere Walkewicz Go faster!   Andrew Cormier No, I was like, “Stop, Zach, stop!” Like, looking back, I'm like, wow, I was just a goofball. He's over here trying to help me, right? But no, he was. He was a great big brother. And to be honest, growing up, I consider myself to have, like, a really spongy brain in terms of, I want to learn things through other people's experiences so that I don't make the same mistakes myself. And so when I would see my brother do all these things, he got into lacrosse. I got into lacrosse. He went to Monty Tech. I saw what cool opportunities there were with that. I went there. And so it was kind of like he tested the waters for me, and then I ended up, following suit. And it's, it's kind of changed since then, I've come to a little bit more of like an independent person. But, you know, growing up, you kind of always look up to your big brother.   Naviere Walkewicz Yes, I love that. And so, aside from being recognized through your lacrosse sport, how? How did the military come into play? Was that something always on the radar? Is it somewhere in your family, maybe not with your dad or your mom, but elsewhere?   Andrew Cormier Yeah, um, my family wasn't big on the military, not that — you know, we grew up pretty disciplined, but the on my mom's side, her parents are immigrants from Canada. There's not a whole bunch of military history there. But on my dad's side, my Pepe, his dad, was drafted for the Korean War, and so he did communications for four years, and then he got out. But beyond that, I mean, he passed when I was young, so I never really got to really — he never really had the opportunity to instill lessons into a sentient person, more or less. So, yeah, I felt more or less like I was doing this for the first time, like it wasn't a huge military thing. But in high school again, my brother, it was an open house. I was in seventh or eighth grade. I get brought to the Marine Corps Junior ROTC program at my high school. And I was really like, what's going on here?   Naviere Walkewicz In an excited way, or?   Andrew Cormier Kind of. It was more like, intrigued, not super— my first question after he gave his little pitch was, “So do I have to serve?” And he was like, “No, no, no.” And I was kind of relieved. So that's kind of my initial impression. I go to school, I'm not enrolled initially, and to be honest, I don't remember what urged me to enroll in the program, but I ended up enrolling. I loved it.   Naviere Walkewicz What year was that?   Andrew Cormier It was freshman year, so I did all three years, because I transferred to a different school my senior year, but I did it all three years, and I loved it, mostly because of the service aspect of it. We did a lot of — it wasn't like, I feel like ROTC, especially at the Academy, because, you know, if other cadets see this, they’re probably gonna flame me for it. But this has, it has this perception of collecting badges and ribbons and, cadet general, all that sort of stuff. And that was so far from what my program was all about, we were doing a bunch of community service. Like, you know, in Fitchburg, we would go near the Boys & Girls Club and pick up trash in the area. Obviously, picking up the trash wasn't fun, but just like, going out and do something with your buddies on the weekend, that was fun. Countless Salvation Army collections, like we'd sit outside the grocery store—   Naviere Walkewicz Ring the bell?   Andrew Cormier Yeah, collect money. All those sorts of things were what really pushed me on. And then I think the culminating thing that really pushed me to want to pursue this was, my sophomore year, we did a humanitarian trip after Hurricane Harvey hit in Texas. So we went down to Wharton, raised a whole bunch of money, took 50 of the about 100 cadet corps, and we posted up in this Boys & Girls Club gymnasium, all on cots. We'd march to breakfast at Wharton Community College, and then we'd spend the day going back and forth in teams, in our vans, either bringing cabinetry to houses, flooring to houses, drywall to houses. And then we'd install it, because it was all flooded up to pretty much the knee from Hurricane Harvey. And so that week that we spent down there was super impactful to me, especially at the end. There was a bunch of little projects, but centrally, there was a big project, because this house was basically destroyed. And coming from a tech school, we have a bunch of plumbers, carpenters, cabinet makers, all the all these different trades coming together, and they ended up doing something really good for this one family. And so they left for a week, and then they were able to reintroduce them on that Friday, and it was super heartwarming. I don't know how I feel saying that word, because I emasculated myself, but, that sort of feeling. It was like, “Wow, we really, like, helped a family,” and it was impactful to me. And so, you know, now at the Academy, I'm like, I haven't had time to do community service, and I feel bad about it, but that's kind of what really got me interested in it.   Naviere Walkewicz Well, I think it's fascinating how, you know, your ability — you worked with your dad, so I think you brought some of those skills, and then again through school. But I think a heart of service is kind of the theme that we're hearing early on in this conversation. What I think we're going to even talk about more. So you were discovered through lacrosse, the little — you went on a, probably an intercollegiate, tour of the Academy. And were you like, “Yes, this is it,” or was it still like a “Well…”   Andrew Cormier Yeah, so backtrack a little bit. My senior year I ended up transferring to Northfield Mount Hermon. It's a college preparatory school, so I was boarding there. And I say that because when I came here, I was really interested in old schools that have a lot of heritage, a lot of tradition. My school, it was like, I — all my fellow “Hoggers” are going to be disappointed that I forget the year that it was founded by Dwight L. Moody, but it's a very old school. Lots of traditions, a lot of fun stuff to like, you know, students are looking forward to and seeing what a lot of the freshmen had to do in my trip here, despite it being a relatively younger school compared to West Point and Annapolis, I was like, “That's cool.” Like, I like the hierarchy structure of it. I really like seeing it. The chapel was out, so I got to see, ya know, it was one of those sort of situations where I was really looking for a school that had fit the criteria of getting able to, you know, serve tradition. And I really wanted to play college lacrosse and at that time it looked like it was gonna fit those descriptions.   Naviere Walkewicz Yeah, so the Academy it was, and what was day 1 like for you?   Andrew Cormier 12:41 A few disclaimers: I want to say that, one, I didn't end up making lacrosse team, so I don't want to be, you know, claiming I made it and I didn't. And two, so…   Naviere Walkewicz …so let's pause there a second. So you were initially recruited, but you got and you had to do the whole application and get in on your own, because you ended up not being a recruited athlete?   Andrew Cormier Yes, and I got denied my first time.   Naviere Walkewicz OK, let's talk about that.   Andrew Cormier Yeah, so I, I applied Well, trade school, education, trade one week, education, other week. So you can see I might be slightly deficient in in certain academic realms. And so that's why I transferred to college Preparatory School, because I wanted to, you know, go all in on my academics, hopefully, you know, get me in. It worked in terms of really opening my perspective, but didn't work in terms of getting me into the Academy the first try, which I was initially a little bummed about, but now looking back on it, I'm like, that was, you know, the Falcon Foundation, shout out to him, or shout out to them, and Gen. Lorenz, everyone. We actually had the dinner last week that was super fun. But I didn't get in. But I got offered Falcon Foundation Scholarship, and I ended up going to again, picking schools off of tradition, Marion Military Institute, which is the oldest one on the list of options. And yeah, I went there for a year during COVID, and that's where I guess the gap is because I'm a Class — I was Class of 2020 in high school, graduating Class of ’25, there's that gap. I hope I answered your question.   Naviere Walkewicz That's fantastic, actually. And, and I think for those listeners who may not be aware of the Falcon Foundation. You know, we have a number of different college preparatory, military preparatory programs that are affiliated with our Academy. And I think it's a wonderful testament to — you apply for the Air Force Academy. You don't apply for a preparatory school, but the Academy recognizes when we have areas that are maybe just under the cut line, but someone we're really interested in, and how do we get them there? And so I think it's fantastic that you were able to get a Falcon Foundation Scholarship. And I don't call that a gap. I call that just an extra year of preparatory So, yeah, it's wonderful.   Andrew Cormier I was definitely prepared more.   Naviere Walkewicz Yes, OK, so you came in on day 1 feeling pretty good then, because, you know, where others might have been the whole basic training experience, just kind of, you know, knock their socks off. You're like, “All right, we know this military thing.” Is that true?   Andrew Cormier Yeah. And, I mean, I guess in terms of, I know how to make a bed, I know how to wear a uniform, that was less daunting. I'm a management major. I don't know what the Astro or Aero people are going through. I'm sure that's very—   Naviere Walkewicz I'm glad you put that caveat in there. OK.   Andrew Cormier Yes, I'm a management major. All the assignments are more or less easy, but it's more just like getting the reps in and it's very gradual. So I don't want this to make it sound like the Academy is easy by any means, because what's difficult about it is the task-saturation they have you doing. It's like stuffing 10 pounds of sand in a 5-pound bag, that sort of deal. That's where it's difficult, at least for me. And so coming into it with hearing those sort of perceptions, that's how I went into it feeling, and I was kind of right. I mean, basic training wasn't super rigorous.   Naviere Walkewicz You were fit.   Andrew Cormier I was, you know, I was able to memorize things.   Naviere Walkewicz Good, your mind is a sponge, so that was probably helpful.   Andrew Cormier Yeah, I had all my— my bed making skills were already down pat, so all the really tactical things were taken care of, and I understood that I was going to get yelled at no matter what. And coming into it with that, I was just like, OK, this is a game of attrition, and I just can't quit.   Naviere Walkewicz I love that. So how did you translate what you felt was maybe not as difficult and you saw others struggling? Have there been times where you've had to step up and take on a role of being more of a support or a leader amongst your peers?   Andrew Cormier Yes, of course. I mean, in my baby squad, we had — I wasn't the only, not only preppy, but also they call them prepsters. I was technically a prepster because I didn't go to the “P” but, you know, I was still did a prep year, and we had a prior enlisted person, and so the four or five of us had already seen all this stuff before. And when it came to studying the Contrails, showing people how to, you know, make their closet and all those sort of things. And also when it came to just being away from home, I had been away from home since I was about 17, and I got there when I was 19 or 20. And so acclimating to living away from home is kind of difficult challenge. And so just being there for the people that are like, “I miss home, I miss my mom, I miss my dad, I miss my home food” and all this sort of stuff. You know, there, there aren't a lot of opportunities for chit chat during basic training, at least towards the beginning, but towards the end, I'm like, you know, “You got this, let's power through.”   Naviere Walkewicz And yeah, I love that. So let's talk about, while you've been a cadet, maybe some of the ways that you've been a follower and some of the ways that you've been a leader, aside from the one you just kind of shared, what have been some ones that have stood out to you as you're continuing to develop your leadership skills?     Andrew Cormier 18:48 OK, following — very much freshman year you're following. Trying to think of some concrete examples. I think credibility, like understanding where you fall on the credibility hierarchy is somewhat a dictator, an indicator of where you should be in terms of leading and following, and I understood that relative to the rest of my baby squaddies, I might have been slightly above the average in terms of credibility, but in terms of the entire squadron, lowest of the low.   Naviere Walkewicz Tell me why. Let's talk about that. What do you mean?   Andrew Cormier Well, I mean, I remember freshman year when we were getting quizzed on our shoulder board rankings. It's a ground-cloud horizon, and freshmen just have the cloud because their heads in the clouds. They're, very unfamiliar with this place. And you know, it's true, not only do you not know what it's like to have a bunch of GRs in a week as a freshman, just coming out of basic training, but you also don't know what it's like to understand an organization. I didn't understand what a reporting structure like — you know, I didn't understand a lot of these intricacies, and I tried my best to have some humility and understanding that and just keeping my ears open for it. And with that credibility spectrum I was confident in the sense that I could be self-sufficient NS take care of what I needed to take care of on the academic front, the knowledge, the K-test front, athletic front. But when it came to, oh wow, I’ve never been in a 100-person organization before and at the bottom of it, this is a time to take some notes. I think that’s definitely a theme’s that’s definitely followed through with the podcast especially. I kind of avoided giving a concrete example of the followership.   Naviere Walkewicz 25:00 You had mentioned you thought it was a whole bunch of KPP, so what is the role really like as a squadron commander?   Andrew Cormier 25:07 It's different than I thought it would be. You know, I think there's this perception of leadership at the Academy, amongst cadets, that leadership is land-naving through the athletic fields and like Jacks Valley. You know what I mean? Like, leadership is these super tactical things, like, how can you be as close to George Washington as possible? But, one, there's not many opportunities. And if you're doing that, opportunities for that sort of stuff, and if you're doing that stuff, you're probably not delegating as you should. And so I think the biggest takeaway that I've gotten from this position is like representation of your people and protection of them.   Naviere Walkewicz Talk about that.   Andrew Cormier 25:57 So even this past week — I don't want it to be tainted that he's a very good friend of mine, because I would have done this for anybody in my squadron. But he received some paperwork from somebody else, his supervisor. He works a group job, so the paperwork was coming from a wing person, and it was outlining how he had failed to do this and all this stuff, and then at the end, it had said something about his like, — I'm super cool. People mess up all the time. I mess up all the time. That's understandable. Mistakes are gonna happen. But the last paragraph rubbed me the wrong way, because it said something about his character, that, knowing him, well, I didn't really — it seemed very out of character. And so, you know, I've had cadet squadron commanders in the past that are just like, you know, hey, I'm going to trust everything that that the wing person said, issue all of the demerits, tours, paperwork that comes with the recommendation and leave it at that, but my attempt to really take this position seriously is to get the perspective of my friend, see what his opinion on it was like. Maybe let me gather a little bit more evidence. And upon doing that, the statement that was at the bottom of it was completely not apparent in the evidence. And this really raised an alarm for me, because if I weren't to do that, not only was it sent to me, but it was sent to permanent party. I'm like, this is, you know, kind of throwing some dirt on his reputation, and it's not true. And so what happened was I immediately texted the guy. It was cool. I worked with him over the summer on wing staff, and I went to his room, and I was like, “Hey, so, you know, just trying to get some understanding. I'm not here to press you about this, but I want to understand what's actually going on here. This is what is outlined in the Form 10. This is the evidence that I gathered from my friend, and they don't really seem to be congruent.” And then he starts giving his case, and I don't disagree with any of the things where he actually, you know, failed to do things. But then, when it came to the part about his character, he was like, “Yeah, so that's the issue. I did that out of anger of somebody else.” Because I remember seeing the group chat and the message was sent, and then my friend responded super politely, super respectfully, and then his co-worker was like, you know, kind of escalatory, aggressive. And then, as a result, both of them got negative paperwork. And I believe that only the negative character should have been put on his co-worker, not on my friend. And he admitted to that, and he was like, “I'm willing to walk that back, because it doesn't give an accurate representation of his character.” And so, you know, my friend was super appreciative, because, you know, we ended up having a permanent party conversation the next day, and we cleared everything up, and they were like, “Thank you for investigating this a little bit more. Because if you didn't, we probably would have just ran with the guy's recommendation and maybe thought a little bit less of him.” So, um, I guess when it comes to protecting my people, maybe that's now thinking back on it, maybe that's a first sergeant job to handle, like the discipline stuff, but maybe that it was my friend that took a little bit more ownership of it, and wanted to make sure it's correct. But that's more or less an example of protecting my people, or representing my people, I guess they kind of go hand in hand on. I guess, another note of protecting—   Naviere Walkewicz Or even what you've learned since being in the role of squadron.   Andrew Cormier 30:04 Yeah.   Naviere Walkewicz Peer leadership is hard, wouldn’t you agree?   Andrew Cormier 30:04 It is very difficult. And I think maybe part of the reason why I was selected was because I have a relatively good reputation in squadron to be friendly. Last semester I was D&C. So, you know, I'm outside of the formation, making corrections –   Naviere Walkewicz What is D&C?   Andrew Cormier D&C: drilling and ceremonies. So I'm outside of the squadron making corrections as people are marching. And it's not an easy thing to do when it's somebody older than you as well. And I'm over here cracking jokes with them and making sure that I do it to everyone, not just certain people. I dig in a little bit more to my friends who I know can accept it, and then it might ease the tension of all the other people who might be not doing it right. And then I go talk to them, like, “Hey, chest up a little bit,” or, like, “'Fix your dress.” But yeah, I think that that was a big piece of me getting picked for it, because I have to uphold a standard, especially in today's Cadet Wing. I don't know if the listeners are privy to all the change going on in the Cadet Wing, but there's a much larger emphasis on standards. “Hey, I'm low key doing you a favor by correcting you so that you don't end up in a three-star’s office.” And so as much as it's made cadet life as a whole, somewhat more difficult, it's made my job as a squadron commander, supposed to enforce these standards, a little bit easier, because they know that I'm not like the highest person that's like enforcing this. This isn't me power tripping. This is me trying to look out for people. That perception makes a big difference.   Naviere Walkewicz No, that's really helpful, and probably more than you thought we were going to be talking about, because you were probably thought we spending a lot of time talking about For the Zoomies, and I'd like to get there. So let's, let's talk about that right now. So, when did it start and why?   Andrew Cormier The reason changed over time, but I started it. I came out of CST, combat survival training, after my freshman-year summer. So it was approximately July timeframe. And I've always been an avid podcast listener. Loved hearing conversations, new ideas, learning, you know, while I just drive. I might think I'm a little bit more productive, like multitasking. And so I've always wanted to start one, but I wanted to be meaningful, not just me and my friends just yapping in some microphones. So what I did was, after freshman year, all of the fever dream of it was over. I could start projecting into the future, not just living in the present. I started projecting into the future, and I'm like, “Oh crap, I have an active-duty service commitment. I actually have to think about that decision for a little bit.” And I was scared because I didn't want to be a pilot. We had Career Night, which is one night every year, and then Ops, which was a whole year out. So I'm just like, I'm not the type to just sit back and let things happen to me. And so to address this issue, I went ahead and was like, you know, Col. Rutter. I went asked him, “Hey, is this feasible? What sort of problems you think I could run into? You know, like, PA, whatever?” And he was like, “Dude, go for it.” And so I started off just interviewing AOCs around base, getting — he was my first episode, talking about A-10s, even though I didn't want to be a pilot, you know, even though I don't want to do that, I'd like to learn more about it. Same thing, maintenance, acquisitions — being a management major was something I was very exposed to in the classroom, and then, you know, it just kind of like expanded. I covered a decent number of AFSCs, and then I started getting to the point where I had this better picture of not only what job I wanted, but also a holistic understanding of how these jobs and career fields intertwined, and it gave me a better picture of what the Air Force does as a whole. And so that was like a big learning piece for it, but it transitioned to, “OK, I don't want to just interview people and like, “Oh, this is what a maintenance officer does the entire time.” People get out after five years. And the reputation right now is that if you want to be a president, go to the Naval Academy. If you want to be a CEO, go to West Point. If you want to be a FedEx pilot, go to the Air Force Academy. And I heard that joke plenty of times, and as funny as it is, I'll admit it, I laughed at it, but like, I don't want that to be the perception of this place, because we produce much, much better leaders than just, pilots, not to poo-poo pilots, but like, CEO versus pilot, like it's, a different game. And so my idea was, how can I highlight that being an airline pilot, a cargo pilot, whatever it is, is not the only avenue to take after commissioning, what else can we do? And that's where I started picking up more perspectives, both on leadership, “What is it like to be a consultant?” I did, you know, definitely lean more towards things that I was interested in, but like equity research, private equity — all these different things, like podcasts, specifically about getting an MBA out of a service academy, all these sort of, like, super tangible things that, because I'm the target audience, I felt would, felt like it would resonate with the cadet wing, and so that was kind of like the motivation moving forward. And you know, it's had so many opportunities for me, like last week. Shout out Ted Robertson behind me, invited me to interview Dr. Ravi Chaudhary, and I'm getting all these super cool opportunities to expand my network and learn what it's like to do things at a more strategic level. And so it's been this really interesting, evolving project over the past two years, and I'll even share this little story. So this summer, I worked a cadet summer research program at Lockheed Martin in D.C. And one of the last days that we were there, they had this quarterly face to face, because it's a global, the corporate strategy arm is a global thing. So they have a like an in person thing every year — or every quarter. And how they started it was, we're gonna talk about just things that you've picked up, whether it's personal life, listen to a podcast, read a book that you wanna share with people. And so I was at the end of this big circle, and I was like, “What am I gonna say?” You know, like, all these people are spouting off this knowledge and wisdom, and I'm sitting here as this intern, trying to come up with something that would be useful to them, and then I actually started thinking. I was like, you know, this podcast changed my perspective on a lot of things, and I get a lot of praise for it, but as much as, like, you know, I acknowledge it was a good thing to help other people expand my own knowledge base of this, it had some downfalls and drawbacks as well. Namely, being I became super fixated on the future, and I was unable to really focus on the present, living in the moment like, get a little dark here, I was a little existential at certain points of time, because I was just constantly thinking future, and I'm like, What am I doing like right now? And it became like a frustrating thing for me, because not only was I interacting with a lot of older people, it was kind of making me feel unrelatable to my peers, and that was bothersome to me, because, you know, I never want to be perceived as this person who's a sycophant, like, just brown-noser and all that sort of stuff. And so it was definitely some drawbacks. And then I, like, brings me to the point of the reason why I started this was that fear. I started because I was scared of not knowing what the future was going to entail. It was this fear of uncertainty. And, you know, reflecting upon that I came into the Academy this, like this confident person and like, where'd that go? Am I not confident? Like the two things that I think if anybody can have will be successful in any realm of life, is perseverance and critical thinking. Those two things, in my opinion, will carry you anywhere. And I felt like I had those things, but I was just discounting them so heavily, to the point that I was like, I need to figure all this stuff out, or else I'm gonna be screwed, when in reality,why am I not just relying on these two things that I know, that I have, you know, maybe you can work in resourcefulness, but I have these two things. Why am I discounting those? And I think that was the big reflection point that I was able to share with the people in this room at this, you know — face to face. And I was like, you know, I had this really big pendulum swing to trying to control everything. And I really don't perceive myself to be a control freak. As, like, a micromanager. I think if you talk to anybody in the squad, they, they won't perceive me that way. But when it comes to my own future, like I want to — in the past — I'm trying to correct it. I'm still not perfect, but I was trying to correct for this. And I'm like, No, that's it's not right. That's not a long term, feasible thing I'm gonna end up burning out, never really living in the moment, never really enjoying things. And so, like that was a big learning lesson from this whole idea.   Naviere Walkewicz And you learned that when you're sitting in that circle, or did you learn that — was that when it kind of culminated into how you articulated it? Or had you already felt that way?   Andrew Cormier 41:40 The cadet experience, like I said, is very task-saturating, and so I never feel like I have a time to reflect during the semester. This was about July, like this past July, and so although I was working, it was like four day weeks, so I had a decent amount of time to reflect. I always treat my Christmas breaks and my summer breaks as points to reflect, and because that's the only time I have, like, the bandwidth to. And like that whole time period, like I was just so locked in on — like all this work I have my my notion planner and checking boxes, Life is checking boxes. And it took me, you know, shout out to Cylas Reilly, 100% because as much as we're different — like, he's much more, like, happy go lucky, like super high energy guy — being with him on the C-SERP at Lockheed, he, allowed me to put my hair down a little bit like, just take a little road trip, talk about stuff, not be so analytical about everything. And so I guess that's that point where — I had about month, because this was at the end of it. I was leaving the next day. And so we had about a month to talk about things. I had a month to reflect on it, and then this was something that was — like it had been the first time I'd ever put it to words, I'll say that. It wasn't the first time I was trying to process it, but it was the first time that I was putting it into words.   Naviere Walkewicz How did you feel after you said that?   Andrew Cormier Uh, slightly cathartic. I don't know it is. It's weird because as soon as you put something to words, then you can, like, I feel like understanding is like, if you can talk, if you can think about it, that's like, the lowest level of understanding. If you can talk about it, that's slightly higher. But then writing about it is the highest level. And so, like, I always keep a journal, and I've been trying to write about it, to put it into more concise words. But that was a big — it was kind of like a breakthrough of like, I'm having a higher understanding of this lesson that seems to be apparent in life.   Naviere Walkewicz Wow. And I think that's something that our listeners can — and those watching too — can really gravitate toward, because, you know, sometimes we get so caught up in the churn of the “what's next?” and the “do this” and “get here.” And I think an important lesson you just shared with us, and I love that you've learned it earlier on, is the key of reflection and really assessing “where am I?” and “how do I feel about that?” and “what's next?”. So For the Zoomies. Let's talk about that. First off, I mean, you've gotten a lot of praise for it, because they're fantastic, your episodes. What has the cadet wing — how have they embraced it?   Andrew Cormier 44:31 You know, I wish Spotify had a little bit better of the data. I can't attach an IP number to a listen. But to be honest, I was never looking for listens. But then as soon as I started growing, I'm, you know, a little bit more tied to it. It's kind of like seeing a lot of likes and stuff on Instagram or whatever.   Naviere Walkewicz Affirmations are wonderful.   Andrew Cormier 44:53 Yeah, but so I think it was received somewhat well. And I always try to add value to the cadet wing. Some of them I admit are a little bit selfish. They're mostly for me, like I really want to talk to this person. But then I had an episode with the Office of Labor and Economic Analysis about a change in how cadets were going to get matched their AFSCs, and I was thankful that — shout-out to Maj. Ian McDonald. He's the person who reached out for me. He is a representative from OLEA who was like, “Hey, I heard about your podcast. This might be a good episode idea.” And I'm like, “You're a genius. You're a genius.” And so we sat down — him and Col. Joffrion in the economic department. They were—.   Naviere Walkewicz Justin Joffrion?   Andrew Cormier Yes, classmate, my upper-classmate. He's ’98.   Andrew Cormier OK, OK. And so we sat down and we walked through how cadets — because the initial, or I guess the legacy system, was OPA, your class, rank, your major, and then your preference. Those were the three things that would get put into this algorithm, this black box, and then you'd be spit out your AFSC. Now, and I think it's still in pilot. Maybe it's confirmed for a Class of ’26 but at least for the ’24/’25 those were, you know, where it was being tested, and it was much more like an open job market, where you actually able to submit a narrative about things that you projects that you've worked on, capstones, research that you've done, and it was super impactful. Because one, I really appreciate the new system, to be honest, because the military can be very — I’ve studied a lot of Austrian economics in my time, so I'm very of the mind, like, free markets, don't tell people what to do, like, they'll pick what's right for them. And so seeing this moving more towards a market structure, I was like, this is a good idea. But being able to share that with the Cadet Wing — that's the highest-listen episode, because I think it really, like, drives value. People don't want to, they want to know how the system works so that they can game the system. And one of my questions on the episode was like, “So, are you worried about people gaming the system? Because they know how it works?” And they're like, “Do it. We want you to get the right job.” And so, yeah, it's been super impactful to me that cadets valued the product that I put out there. And they would value it because it was useful to them. I wouldn't want it to be artificially inflated just for the sake of that affirmation, even though it feels good, but, yeah, it felt good to be able to contribute in that way.   Naviere Walkewicz I love that. So that's the most listened from the cadet perspective, what was been the most rewarding from the podcast seat, from your side of it?   Andrew Cormier Like, most rewarding in terms of—   Naviere Walkewicz Either a guest episode or just the experience of podcasts, okay, I'll let you take it where you'd like.   Andrew Cormier I have a lot of people pose this sort of question to me a lot about, like, who's your favorite episode? Like, who's your favorite guest? And, you know, they, like, kind of hint at, like, all, like, Gen. Clark, like, or anyone with stars was probably a really cool episode. And, you know, it is an honor and a privilege to be able to get an hour on their calendar because they're super busy. They're strategic thinkers. They don't usually have a whole bunch of time on their hands, but they were able to open up their calendar to me, and so it's an honor, and usually I do come away with a lot of practical knowledge from those things. I shouldn't say that those are always the most enjoyable. One of my favorites thus far has been with Julian Gluck, Cosmo. Because, you know, we sit down, same thing with Sam Eckholm, we sit down and we just — it is a little bit of yap-sesh, so maybe it's more for the people who are looking for entertainment than advice or information on the Air Force as a whole. But we just sit down and talk about cadet life. And I really enjoy the evolution of the Academy experience, year over year. And Sam Eckholm, being a relatively recent grad. Cosmo being — I think he's 2010, so it's like, you know, in these sort of 10-year chunks, and then even…   Naviere Walkewicz Is he ‘08 or ‘10?   Andrew Cormier He might be — in that timeframe. Yeah. And even Dr. Chaudhary, which was super fun, because for the first half of the episode, we were just talking about spirit missions. And so usually, with these senior leaders, it's more of “What's the strategic landscape?” “What can cadets take away from this?” But with him, it was like, you know, talking about chickens on the freaking football field and like, going up on Flat Iron. And so I always enjoy those episodes from a personal perspective of really having institutional pride, is seeing the evolution of this place and seeing the ebbs and flows of it. And it's like telling that — it makes me understand that the difficulty of this place and like the perception that the cadet wing is getting softer. It's not something that's been this ever since ’59 it's been this gradual decline, persistently. It's a thing that comes and goes and honestly, we're more-or-less on an uptrend than not, relative to the adversaries that we're facing. So I guess that's a big piece of it is, as much as I really enjoy learning and getting different people's perspectives on, “Oh, what base should I choose given these goals?” Or, you know, “What does a maintenance officer do at Red Flag?”   Naviere Walkewicz Yes, oh, my goodness. Well, I think one of the things that you've highlighted in and this journey of yours is, yes, it's about impact. Yes, it's about, you know, taking care of one another. But there's also this intrinsic piece which is really about relationships, and that's what I hear when you talked about the ones that you really enjoyed most. I think it was that human connection. That’s that thread that connects us.   Andrew Cormier Yeah, I think you hit the hammer on that thing. You know what I’m trying to say.   Naviere Walkewicz Yes, no, I'm with you. So, Andrew, what's next for you? Upon graduation, we know you're not going to be a pilot. What are you going to be doing?   Andrew Cormier 52:29 I dropped 63 Alpha Acquisition Manager.   Naviere Walkewicz And that's what you wanted?   Andrew Cormier Yes, first pick.   Naviere Walkewicz So you gamed the system properly?   Andrew Cormier Yes. I gamed it properly, yes. And I think the narrative piece of it, I included how I went to Lockheed, and they're very — the project I was working on, was very acquisition-oriented, so I think I really put a lot of emphasis on, “Give me this.”   Naviere Walkewicz “I really, really want this.” I’m so happy for you.   Andrew Cormier Thank you. Thank you. But so we just put in base preferences. That was a pretty long conversation with a lot of people that I had to have.   Naviere Walkewicz Including Chloe. Is she…?   Andrew Cormier Yeah, no, she was the main stakeholder outside of me. We probably had three different conversations about it. I'd talk to her first, go get some other input from grads. Talk to her again, more input. Talk to her, and then finally, input. And so, you know, I talked to my sponsor, Maj. Bryce Luken. And the reason I talked to a lot of people that I wanted to be somewhat like, like, I envision myself as them somewhat in the future. You know, they're reservists, entrepreneurial, very like — not sit back 9 to 5, but how are we gonna, you know, improve national security and have our own spin on things, have autonomy over, you know, what we do and our time and so, like, those are the criteria over, like, who I was talking to, so I had a conversation with him. He's like, “You should go to L.A.” I'm like, “Air Force people aren't going to L.A. That's Space Force…” Like, Boston. And so he's like, “Dude, you should go to Boston, MIT, Lincoln Lab.”   Naviere Walkewicz Hopefully you talked to Cosmo as well.   Andrew Cormier I actually haven't, but yeah, I should let him know I ended up putting in Hanscom. But you know Col. Misha, I saw him at the Falcon Foundation dinner, Forrest Underwood. Yes, they were giving me the same like urging me go to Boston. You're a young professional who wants to get his hands dirty. Don't go to, you know, Langley, where — you know you can still be industrious down there, but you'll be under-resourced compared to if you went to Boston.   Naviere Walkewicz See, and that's great feedback that you know maybe others aren't thinking about in their decisions. So I think that's a really great process in the way you approached it. People that are in the ways of where you want to go. And also the important people in your life that you want to make sure stay important.   Andrew Cormier Yeah. I mean, at the end of every single episode on the podcast, I always ask for advice for cadets looking to pursue a similar path. Emphasis on “pursue a similar path.” I get a lot of advice, and not that I think anyone is, you know, basing their advice off of maybe an incomplete conclusion. But when you're getting advice, you really have to understand, what are what is their envisioning or like, how are they envisioning your outcome, and is their envision outcome the same as like, what you want? And so I think getting to your point, I really look — I got the advice. Same thing. This past Sunday, I called up Chase Lane, who went to Langley first. And I think that's why he really stuck out to me. But he urged me to go to Boston. And also, kind of like, walked me through. He's like, you know, Chloe works at Space Foundation. She really wants to be in the space world. And so, she's like, “Let's go to Patrick. Right near Cape Canaveral, Cocoa Beach.” Super cool location, you know. I mean, prayers out to the people in Florida right now. I hope that they're all right. But like, you know, that'd be a good spot. Uh, relative, you know, Boston, wet snow every single day. But you know, he kind of like, Chase, walked me through how I should approach a conversation like this. And so, you know, the other night when I sat down with Chloe, as much as you know, I want to value her perspective and wanting to value all inputs, understand where those inputs come from, and find a middle point, a middle ground for everybody, because the team won't last if we're only valuing certain inputs. And you know, it does take a little bit of convincing, but also more of like, open your eyes to what the opportunity really is. Are you making assumptions about this? Am I making assumptions about this? Let's clear those up. And so that's a sort of conversation that we ended up having. And, you know, she's on board with Boston now and so.   Naviere Walkewicz I think that's wonderful. I think communication is key. Luckily for you, you're big on communication, And no, I think that's wonderful for our listeners, even. You know, yes, there's probably times when you have to make a decision, there's a lead decision maker, maybe in in a partnership or in a relationship, but when you take in all of those perspectives, like you said, I think the end of the day, when you're coming to that decision, you're in a place of transparency and, yeah, you kind of go for it together. So I think that's great lessons for all of our listeners. Andrew, we're going to get to some of the key thoughts that you have, and I also would love for you to share, and you have a limited to think about this, but something that is, you know, unique to you, that you would love our listeners to kind of hear or learn about you. I think that's one of the things that we've been able to pick up in Long Blue Leadership, is it's kind of neat when people just know what's relatable or what they think is really cool. So, give you a second on that. But before we do, I'd like to take a moment and thank you for listening to Long Blue Leadership. This podcast publishes Tuesdays in both video and audio, and is available on all your favorite podcast platforms. Watch or listen to episodes of Long Blue Leadership at long blue leadership.org   Naviere Walkewicz 58:38 So Andrew, here we are, and we can go in either order. I think, you know, we always like to make sure our listeners kind of have a way to encapsulate the leadership lessons you want to leave them with that's close to you. But also just kind of, what's the thing you want to leave them with that's all about, Andrew?   Andrew Cormier It's weird talking about myself, to be honest, because I bet I'm always on the other side of the microphone.   Naviere Walkewicz Yes. It's much easier asking the questions.   Andrew Cormier Yes. I think one thing that I really wanted to talk about that I guess wasn't outlined in this, was the regular question of “Why'd you come?” versus “Why'd you stay?” And like I mentioned before, the service piece was why I came, but seeing how I haven't done community service really since high school, the reason why I've been staying is because American ideals are amazing, and they need to be protected. And in order for me to have any say in that, I need to have skin in the game. And that's what I look at my service as, is me gaining skin in the game. And, you know, I just, I am by no means a scholar of American history. Massachusetts Public Education did not teach me about the Alamo, unfortunately, so when I went to San Antonio for the first time, I was learning it. But what they did teach me was about our founding fathers. And, you know, being from Massachusetts, Plymouth Rock, it's where the Pilgrims landed, and what it really took for people to come across an entire ocean, fight tyranny. Like ask me, “How do you think I like my tea?”   Naviere Walkewicz How do you like your tea?   Andrew Cormier In the harbor. You know what I mean? Yeah, like, there's this sort of state and then largely national pride as — it's audacious what has transpired over the past 250 years, and I just want Americans not to take that for granted. I recently watched Civil War. Have you seen that movie? It's like, kind of a journalist’s take on what would happen if, you know, states seceded. And it's like a, it's like a reminder of, “Oh, this actually happened. There was a civil war,” but like, you know, we were able to remand it, and like those reminders, tell me that this, this should not be taken for granted. And so, you know, with the kind of, like national landscape, the whole climate, I just really urge people to try to understand other people's perspectives and listen more than they talk, because those pieces for me, like I'm a pretty staunch capitalist, but I recently bought TheCommunist Manifesto. This is probably gonna get clipped or something, but I bought it, and I still haven't started reading it yet, because this semester’s been crazy. But I want to understand where these people are coming from.   Naviere Walkewicz Critical thinking.   Andrew Cormier I want to understand where these ideas stem from. And I want to listen, and I want other people to listen as well. I want a more general understanding of the ideas that are guiding all of this change. What are they actually rooted in? And I think that understanding will make it much more clear as to like, a direction that we should all head in rather than, you know, all this public descent over very more or less menial things that are petty and not worth having the uproar that is ensuing. So I don't know, I guess. I don't know exactly where I was going with that, but my national and state pride gives me this urge to go, in some way, shape or form, defend these ideals and to encourage other people to look at — you know, I didn't mention a whole bunch about Northfield, Mount Herman, but I went to four schools in four years, Monty, Tech, NMH, Marion Military Institute and then here, all four different years, Massachusetts, Alabama, Colorado — in, you know, Massachusetts, my hometown, it's blue collar, NMH, super liberal. I was very international. I was in class with a Malaysian prince. I was exposed to very different perspectives there than I was when I was in Alabama. Here, there's people from all corners of the United States, and so there's this expanding perspective that allows me to be like, what we have here really shouldn't be taken for granted. I think I'm just beating a dead horse at this point, but I just really want Americans to think a little bit more and, like, listen a little bit more and understand a little bit more. I'm off my soapbox.   Naviere Walkewicz 1:04:27 I'm really glad you shared that perspective. I mean, I think it's an insight into you know, your deeper calling, and, like you said, why you stay but the threads of everything you've shared have played into that part of that of who you are at the fabric of Andrew. So, any additional leadership nuggets you want to leave with our listeners?   Andrew Cormier 1:04:53 I don't want to defer to other things that I said earlier in the conversation, but it's not about you. It's not about you. I have a couch in my room. It's like,   Naviere Walkewicz Tell me more about that.   Andrew Cormier It’s a squadron commander privilege. I have my own room. I have all these like privileges. I have up top parking. It's very like ivory tower-centric. And that's like the perception of this. But it's not about me at all. It is about going and defending my friend. It is about when permanent party is directing frustration towards me, how do I not pass that frustration onto them? How do I make sure that the voices below me are heard. How do we reopen Hap’s? Those are the jobs that are mine, and that involves no, like — it's my job, that I think that's the main thing. When you're a leader, it's your job. There shouldn't be any extra, you know, kudos given to you. Everyone has their own piece in the puzzle, and just because your face is more prominent than others does not mean that the mission is any less doable with one piece missing or another piece missing. So I guess it's not about you, it's about the team.   Naviere Walkewicz 1:06:23 So, For the Zoomies, just to kind of recap, where is it headed, and how can they find it, our listeners?   Andrew Cormier 1:06:33 Spotify podcasts, or Apple podcasts, I guess that's where you can find it. I'm not gonna lie; it's been on a little bit of a hiatus. I've been returning to posting, but had to give myself a break at the beginning of the semester. To be honest, I'm looking to just get to 100 episodes upon graduation and calling it a repository. I'm looking forward to some of the upcoming guests. I reached out to Gen. Mike Minihan the other day on LinkedIn, and he got back to me, and I was like, wow, so maybe he might be on the show by the time this is released. But yeah, I kind of want cadets to understand more. There's a lot of things that are advertised about pilots, but there's more out there. And I want this also be a testament of you don't need to do something in your extracurricular time that is an Academy club. Cadets can do their own thing. Yeah, I hope that answers the question.   Naviere Walkewicz That's outstanding. Is there anything that I didn't ask you that you want to share before we close out this amazing episode?   Andrew Cormier No, I think, I think I'm good. I've been talking way too long.   Naviere Walkewicz Well, it's that, well, we want you to talk because you've been our guest. But Andrew, it's been a pleasure.   Andrew Cormier It's been a really — I didn't say this in the beginning, but really, thank you for having me on. It means a lot to me that, you know, I'm the first cadet here, and I don't know what the plan is moving forward, but it means a lot to me that you saw enough in me to put me in company with all the other guests that you have on the show so far, and so I just hope you know it's pressure for me not to do anything to let you guys down.   Naviere Walkewicz Well, I think you being who you are, you've already not let us down. You're amazing. Thank you so much.     KEYWORDS Air Force Academy, leadership, cadet experience, community service, podcasting, military career, personal growth, mentorship, squadron commander, humanitarian efforts, Air Force Academy, leadership, career paths, podcasting, personal growth, cadet community, national pride, decision making, leadership lessons       The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association and Foundation

Dr. Ravi Chaudhary, Assistant Secretary of the Air Force for Energy Installations and Environment, is a leader who has taught his team to, "Eat no for breakfast." He lives by a value he learned from his mother at an early age: "If you do your full duty, the rest will take care of itself."   SUMMARY In this edition of Long Blue Leadership, Dr. Chaudhary discusses his role in modernizing and reoptimizing Air Force installations to withstand kinetic, cyber, economic, and extreme weather threats. He emphasizes the importance of ruggedizing installations for the Great Power Competition. Dr. Chaudhary shares his background, including his upbringing in Minneapolis and his parents' immigrant journey, and highlights the values instilled in him. He also discusses his work on the implementation of microgrids and microreactors to enhance energy resilience at critical installations like Eielson Air Force Base.   5 QUOTES 1. "If you do your full duty, the rest will take care of itself." - This quote from Dr. Chaudhary's mother reflects the importance of dedication and doing one's job well. 2. "We eat no for breakfast." - This quote highlights Dr. Chaudhary's team's determination to not accept limitations and push boundaries. 3. "Love what you do. Love our nation." - Dr. Chaudhary emphasizes the importance of passion and patriotism in leadership. 4. "America is not about what goes on entirely in Washington. It's about neighbors. It's about what you do for your neighbors." - This quote reflects Dr. Chaudhary's belief in the power of community and service. 5. "Get out of the way and let them in." - Dr. Chaudhary's advice on enabling the next generation of leaders to excel.   SHARE THIS EPISODE LINKEDIN [https://www.linkedin.com/shareArticle?mini=true&url=https%3A//www.longblueleadership.org/e/the-honorable-dr-ravi-i-chaudhary-93-leading-through-the-great-power-competition/?token=7abe20911d68b73f68b74080969f94f2]  |  TWITTER [https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?text=%22Eat%20NO%20for%20breakfast!%22%20Listen%20to%20Dr.%20Ravi%20Chaudhary%20on%20the%20Long%20Blue%20Leadership%20podcast!%20]  |  FACEBOOK [https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=https%3A//www.longblueleadership.org/e/the-honorable-dr-ravi-i-chaudhary-93-leading-through-the-great-power-competition/?token=7abe20911d68b73f68b74080969f94f2]   CHAPTERS 00:00 Introduction to Dr. Ravi Chaudhary and His Role 03:07 The Importance of Air Force Installations 06:08 Dr. Chaudhary's Early Life and Family Background 09:03 Lessons from Family: Service and Community 11:52 Reflections on the Air Force Academy Experience 14:54 Leadership Lessons from Cadet Days 18:01 The Role of Innovation in the Air Force 20:48 Strategic Imperatives for Future Operations 23:59 Optimism for the Future of the Air Force Academy 25:07 A Lifelong Dream: Becoming a Pilot 27:31 Launching Innovations: The GPS Program 28:36 Inspiring the Next Generation of Pilots 30:14 Adapting to Modern Challenges in Aviation 32:40 Navigating Change: The Evolution of Standards 34:57 Learning from Failure: A Personal Journey 35:42 The Role of the Assistant Secretary 38:55 Preparing for Great Power Competition 41:09 Innovative Energy Solutions for the Future 44:58 Leadership Lessons and Final Thoughts   5 KEYS TO LEADERSHIP 1. Embrace failures as opportunities for growth. Dr. Chaudhary shared how his failures, like failing a check ride, ultimately helped him grow as a leader. 2. Keep moving forward, even in the face of adversity. Dr. Chaudhary emphasized the importance of keeping your "legs moving" and not giving up when faced with challenges. 3. Leverage the bonds formed with your team. Dr. Chaudhary highlighted how the bonds he formed with his classmates at the Academy carried over into his missions, demonstrating the power of camaraderie. 4. Empower and enable the next generation. Dr. Chaudhary expressed optimism about the capabilities of the current cadets and emphasized the need to get out of their way and let them excel. 5. Maintain a service-oriented, patriotic mindset. Dr. Chaudhary's passion for serving his country and community was evident throughout the interview, underscoring the importance of this mindset in effective leadership.   ABOUT DR. CHAUDHARY ’93 BIO Dr. Ravi I. Chaudhary is the Assistant Secretary of the Air Force for Energy, Installations, and Environment, Department of the Air Force, the Pentagon, Arlington, Virginia. Dr. Chaudhary is responsible for the formulation, review and execution of plans, policies, programs, and budgets to meet Air Force energy, installations, environment, safety, and occupational health objectives. Dr. Chaudhary most recently served as the acting Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Navy for Energy. Prior to this role, he served as the Director of Advanced Programs and Innovation, Office of Commercial Space Transportation, at the Federal Aviation Administration. He provided technical leadership and oversight for the commercial space industry, to include research and development activities to support Department of Transportation and White House National Space Council initiatives. Prior to this role, he served as Executive Director, Regions and Center Operations, at the FAA. In this role, he was responsible for leadership, integration and execution of aviation operations in nine regions nationwide. Dr. Chaudhary served as second in command to the Deputy Assistant Administrator and was responsible for providing Department of Transportation and FAA-wide services in the areas of operations, safety, policy, congressional outreach and emergency readiness for the National Aerospace System. Dr. Chaudhary commissioned in the Air Force in 1993 upon graduation from the United States Air Force Academy. He completed 21 years of service in a variety of command, flying, engineering and senior staff assignments in the Air Force. As a C-17 pilot, he conducted global flight operations, including numerous combat missions in Afghanistan and Iraq, as well as a ground deployment as Director of the Personnel Recovery Center, Multi-National Corps, Iraq. As a flight test engineer, he was responsible for flight certification of military avionics and hardware for Air Force modernization programs supporting flight safety and mishap prevention. Earlier in his career, he supported space launch operations for the Global Positioning System and led third stage and flight safety activities to ensure full-operational capability of the first GPS constellation. As a systems engineer, he supported NASA’s International Space Station protection activities to ensure the safety of NASA Astronauts. Dr. Chaudhary is a DoD Level III Acquisition Officer and has published numerous articles in future strategy, aircraft design, business transformation and space operations.  - Bio Copy Credit to AF.MIL   CONNECT WITH DR. CHAUDHARY LINKEDIN [https://tr.ee/davxVecz-4]  |   INSTAGRAM [https://tr.ee/AK7Ky0c6TF]  |  TWITTER [https://www.twitter.com/ASAF_IE]     ABOUT LONG BLUE LEADERSHIP Long Blue Leadership drops every two weeks on Tuesdays and is available on Apple Podcasts, TuneIn + Alexa, Spotify and all your favorite podcast platforms. Search @AirForceGrads on your favorite social channels for Long Blue Leadership news and updates! https://www.facebook.com/AirForceGrads https://www.youtube.com/@AirForceGrads https://twitter.com/AirForceGrads https://instagram.com/AirForceGrads https://www.linkedin.com/company/aogusafa     FULL TRANSCRIPT OUR SPEAKERS Guest, The Honorable Dr. Ravi I. Chaudhary ’93  |  Host, Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz ’99   Naviere Walkewicz 00:00 My guest today is the assistant secretary of the Air Force for energy installations and environment, the Honorable Dr. Ravi Chaudhary USAFA, Class of ’93. Against the backdrop of Great Power Competition, Dr. Chaudhry leads the modernization and reoptimization of the Air Force to ruggedize our installations across the globe against what he describes as kinetic threats, as well as non-kinetic cyber, economic and extreme weather threats. He has served as acting deputy assistant secretary of the Navy for energy; the director of advanced programs and innovation, Office of Commercial Space Transportation at the Federal Aviation Administration; and he has led in the commercial space industry research and development in the support of the Department of Transportation and the White House, National Space Council. We'll talk with Dr. Chaudhry about his life before, during and after the Academy. We'll discuss his role, modernizing and re-optimizing initiatives and strategies for the Air Force. We'll touch on leading through new and changing threats and making decisions with climate in mind, and we'll discuss Dr. Chaudhary's work with the secretary of the Air Force and leadership at the base, command and warfighter levels. Finally, we'll ask Dr. Chaudhary to share advice for developing and advanced leaders. Dr. Chaudhary, welcome to Long Blue Leadership. We're so glad to have you.   Dr. Chaudhary 01:18 Navier, thank you so much. Thank you for that way too kind of an introduction, and I only have one regret. On this weekend, did you have to mention that I was in the Navy for a little while? You just about blew me away. I know you've got some white clear liquid here. I'm just about ready to find out what the clear liquid is.   Naviere Walkewicz Cheers.   Dr. Chaudhary 01:40 Off we go, and we'll let our audience speculate, and depending on how it goes, we'll critique ourselves. Just an honor to be here, and congrats to you on your career of service in the Air Force.   Naviere Walkewicz Thank you so much. This is truly a pleasure. And I think what we love about Long Blue Leadership is it's really about our listeners getting to know you. And we have so many different listeners that are really excited. So let's start with the hat. I've noticed we've got a hat on right here. “Air Force Installations: Best in the World.” Let's talk about it.   Dr. Chaudhary Yeah, let's talk about that. Because we do have the best installations in the world. Our installations are power projection platforms. Every Air Force installation has a mission that begins and terminates with it. If you go all the way back in our history, Gen. Hap Arnold had this to say about our installations: “Air bases are the determining factor in air operations.” Think about that. Think about why we need to make sure that our installations are ready to go, and why we invest in them as an Air Force. It's because you can't get the jets out of town unless they have a good runway that works, unless they are hardened and ready to absorb the types of blows that have come to us in the past. And I'm telling you right now that we've got to be ready for this future, in a decade of consequence in Great Power Competition. We've got to focus on ruggedizing and ensuring that our installations are as survivable as they ever have been.   Naviere Walkewicz Absolutely. Well, I can say that that is certainly true, having been at bases where we've seen some challenges, it does halt and sometimes stop operations. So yeah, you're right. Yeah. So it's incredible the work you're doing, and we're going to talk about that today. But before we get there, can we rewind the clock a little bit?   Dr. Chaudhary Please don't rewind it too far, but I have a feeling you will.   Naviere Walkewicz Just a little bit. Just enough to kind of get to know who Ravi was as a young boy. What were you like growing up? Tell us about your family and where you grew up.   Dr. Chaudhary That's cool. So, I was born and raised in Minneapolis, Minnesota. I grew up there all my life. My parents came from India in 1960s and they always dreamed to do the unusual, it was the American Dream that brought them to this country. And they had kids, you know, and growing up as a South Asian American, you know, people in community would be like, “Hey, you know, why are you going to join the military? Why are you going to, you know, once you just be a doctor or engineer or lawyer or something like that?” Kind of fit the stereotype. But I always thought about it this way: If my parents would give up everything they wanted in their life, their language, their culture, everything to pursue their dreams, wouldn't they want that for their children as well? And so off I went to the Air Force Academy, and the values that my parents instilled in me rang true just about every single day. In fact, when I grow up, my mom would always tell me this. She'd say, “You know, if you do your full duty, the rest will take care of itself.”   Naviere Walkewicz That sounds very familiar to me.   Dr. Chaudhary And she would say, in the Sanskrit word for that — and my faith tradition is Hinduism — the Sanskrit word for that is “dharm.” If you follow your dharm, everything will take care of itself. And lo and behold, I'm getting choked up a little bit, because when I showed up and opened that Contrails and saw that quote, I knew that Mom and Dad had prepared me, had prepared me for the challenges that would come, not just the Academy, but everything from 9/11 to deploying to Iraq to raising a family and making sure they have everything they need to prosper. So, all that brought me to an institution that honestly brought out the flavor and gave me in the same opportunity that this country gave my father. So, it's just been a pinch-me career, and it's just an honor to be here with you today and with the entire AOG team talking about this.   Naviere Walkewicz 05:36 That's amazing. I mean, I, thinking about what you just said, that your parents came and they pursued a dream. What was that like in your household? What did that look like?   Dr. Chaudhary 05:45 Here's what it looked like. My dad — he actually came to this country with about $165, $80 of which went to his tuition. He was at University of Missouri, and then he eventually went to University of Minnesota. The rest he used to get a house and fill the fridge. And so, when he was looking for an opportunity to serve, he wanted to be in the U.S. Department of Agriculture and serve as a fed and so he didn't get that chance. So, what he did, he literally drove, put me and my brother and my mom in a car and drove to Washington. When he drove to Washington, he dropped us off at the Lincoln Memorial and walked up the stairs of the Capitol. Two senators from Minnesota, one was walking out, Sen. Walter Mondale. He said hello to him. He didn't know him from Adam. And then he went to the office of Hubert Humphrey and he sat down with him, and he told his story to Hubert Humphrey and Hubert Humphrey said, “This is what America is all about.” And he was kind enough to give my dad a shot in Minneapolis. And he spent his entire career, 25 years, as a federal inspector in the U.S. Department of Agriculture.   Naviere Walkewicz My goodness.   Dr. Chaudhary It's an incredible story. But you know what? It all came together about a year and a half ago when I was confirmed and during my swearing, and it was honored to have Sec. Kendall swear me in, but to have my dad walk up the front steps of the Pentagon with my mom and I. We go up the stairs, and I said, “Dad, would you turn around for a second?” And he turned around. I said, “You know, you can see the Lincoln Memorial and you can see the Capitol.” And I said, “Look what you've done in one generation.” That is the embodiment of the American dream. And as he was kind of — I'm getting choked up — he wiped the tears from his eyes. He realized that that that what this country has given to us is something that we've got to always think about giving back and giving back, and that's really what my career has always been about, giving back to the country that has given my family everything.   Naviere Walkewicz 07:59 That is amazing. Wow. I mean, I'm almost without words, because I can see what your dad has instilled in you, made possible, but instilled in you as a servant leader as well. I'm just… that's pretty impressive. So, tell me about your mom, because it sounds like she also instilled some pretty incredible traits in you and some beliefs in how to treat people. What did that look like in, her leadership in your life?   Dr. Chaudhary 08:26 What can I say about my mom? She's a pillar of the community back in Minneapolis. She runs a nonprofit called Seva. In Hindi, seva means service, to serve, serve your fellow citizens, serve your nation. And again, I told you about her, her enduring quote, “If you do your full duty, the rest will take care of itself.” So, in that nonprofit, she is actually bringing cultural-specific services, health services, to the Asian American community. One thing she did during Covid was incredible. She pulled together a meal team, and she served somewhere around 20,000 seniors. And it wasn't just Asian Americans, anybody in the Minneapolis community that was struggling, that couldn't get food, that was having a tough time. And then, as you know, after the George Floyd tragedy occurred, the town, the city went through a tough time, and there was an area right around one of the police stations where the riots were going on and everybody was fleeing when. When the community was fleeing, she was mobilizing her team to go in. They were going in and they were rescuing people from shelters to get them to a safe place. And two days later, she brought a team into the community that was still smoldering and set up meal stations to just give people sandwiches, bread, whatever — to just make everybody feel good and move forward, and that's what America is about. Sometimes we get so wrapped up in the times and differences, but we realize that America is more than just Washington. America is about neighbors and neighbors caring for each other. So, where did I learn that? I learned that from my mom, but the Air Force Academy brought it out, and I applied that every single day, whether it was a mission launching GPSs, doing engineering — tough engineering problems, or flying missions into the CENTCOM AOR, where we had to bring crews to bear to execute incredible missions. And so, reflecting on that — boy, you're really tearing me up today…   Naviere Walkewicz No, not at all…   Dr. Chaudhary …because you're bringing this all out of my heart, and it's just an honor to be here and humbling to tell the story. But I know that there are thousands and thousands of grads out there that have just as inspiring stories, and that's why I love to come to AOG. That's why I like to spend time with our cadets today, which was just as incredible. I went down to Jacks Valley and got to see the assault course as well. Luckily, I didn't have too many flashbacks.   Naviere Walkewicz I was going to say, did you have your rubber ducky with you?   Dr. Chaudhary Yeah, I did not. They didn’t push me through it, but the demo was incredible. And I know our secretary was equally impressed with the cadets and the caliber of students that are here, the caliber of our cadets, and how I'm so optimistic for the future of our Air Force and Space Force.   Naviere Walkewicz 11:33 Absolutely. And I can share, based off of what you shared about your mom and dad, there's no reason why you're [not] able to take on a job that almost seems impossible with the scope and breadth of what you're responsible for. So, I can't wait to get into that as well. Can we go to when you're at the Academy? I want to know more about you as a cadet, because as interesting as you are as an adult, what were you like as a cadet?   Dr. Chaudhary 11:54 There’s a lot that I really shouldn't disclose. Okay, so we've got to be really, really careful. So, me and my classmates, we have this thing called “mutually assured destruction.” You know stories about me, I know stories about you. Just leave it there. But let me tell you, the Academy was just the honor of a lifetime. But you know what — going through it with your classmates is something. I was just having lunch with our cadets today. I was a grad of Delta Tau Deuce, and to spend time with them and tell them stories, and hear about their stories, about what Deuce is like these days, was absolutely just, I was just blown away with it. But yep, I was primarily in Deuce. I had the just pleasure of beaing a squadron commander and having peers that really care for each other, peers that I keep in touch with. To this very day, I have them up on text.   Naviere Walkewicz Oh, wow.   Dr. Chaudhary And we share with each other. We have challenges. We go through it together, but I will tell you one story about why your cadet story matters, and you don't realize it until the balloon goes up. When I graduated from pilot training, I graduated essentially the day after 9/11 and I was actually in the planning room when 9/11 happened, and within a few weeks — I did my check ride that day — within a few weeks, I was at Charleston Air Force Base, and my squadron commander had me look out the window and said, “We don't have time to mission qual you. We don't have enough pilots. We're going to marry you up with a crew to go down range.” And you know what he did? He married me up with two people, one who was my classmate from the Class of 1993,   Naviere Walkewicz Really?   Dr. Chaudhary Two was a member of my squadron from Deuce, and he was a new aircraft commander. We had an experienced first pilot, and I didn't know nothing from nothing. I was a brand-new co-pilot. And so, getting ready for that, for those missions, a new environment for me, required something that our squadron commander knew that if I put three Academy graduates together, the bond that they've had in their years was going to carry them through toughest conditions, in unknown conditions. And sure enough, we clicked and did well. But to anybody who's a current cadet and listening in and wondering, “Hey, is this bonding — is what's going on now, the time that we have together here in the Academy going to amount to anything?” I'm here to tell you, it does and through my own life experiences, and quite honestly, in a number of missions, we fly working it together as a team. The bonds we create as cadets carry over for decades.   Naviere Walkewicz 14:54 So maybe you can share some of those bonding moments at the Academy. You said you were a squadron commander. What were some of the lessons you learned from a leadership aspect, in leading your peers, but also while still trying to bond with them?   Dr. Chaudhary 15:08 Yeah, when you look back, sometimes you're separated by age and rank, right? You got age and you got rank and your peer groups kind of set you that way. At the Academy, it's completely different because your peers, as a senior, you're all peers and colleagues, and to take on a leadership role is what I would say is the toughest challenge of all. To lead a team of peers and colleagues can be challenging. And there's challenges that really kind of come with everything like that, but to me, you can't do it without collaboration, without consulting folks and being inclusive in how you give people a voice. Now the jury is out — I'm not going to judge whether I was successful or not. Probably not, you know? But I will say we did one thing: It was gonna be we were gonna be the athletic squadron of the year. We were a beast. In fact, we decided that we were gonna go for one thing: We were the athletic squadron. And so, we did.   Naviere Walkewicz That’s impressive!   Dr. Chaudhary We kicked some serious buttt. So, back in the day, you do what was called a sweep. So, if you swept all your sports and intramurals that day, you would, the next day, you would get Mitch’s Mountains. And so, the lore of Mitch’s Mountains was incredible. And today, interestingly enough, we had what I would call Mitch’s Mountain version 2.0 — probably half the calories and twice the caffeine. I don't know what it is. But I actually whipped out a picture of an old Mitch’s Mountain. And I show them, they're like, it was really funny, because to see the look in their eyes and to see an original Mitch’s Mountain, it was like, oh, you know they looked at and they're like, “That's what a Mitch’s…” And they're like, “There's an Oreo cookie on top!” I'm like, for us, “Ok, this is a nice 2.0” and everything, like you gotta go back to…   Naviere Walkewicz 17:05 So, how many of those did you get? If you were actually the athletic squadron, you must have swept multiple days.   Dr. Chaudhary 17:12 You see the love handles on me right now? That was the one challenge. Because, you know, [you‘ve] got to stay in shape. But we kicked some serious butt; we would sweep all the time. I was actually on the water polo team…   Naviere Walkewicz 17:25 …we share that. I did not enjoy it. It sounds like you might.   Dr. Chaudhary 17:30 I don't know. So, I'm a decent swimmer. I'm pretty good. Grew up in Minnesota, tons of lakes. I could say I'm a decent swimmer, but I can tell you I am not a water polo player. So, what they used me for in water polo…   Naviere Walkewicz Were you the buouy?   Dr. Chaudhary I was the anti-buoy, because whoever was the good player, they'd say, “Go and put your arms over that one and get them underwater,” so that our fellow water polo teammate could go in and score. And so, probably one of my most beloved plaques in my life is my water polo plaque because we were Wing champs.   Naviere Walkewicz Oh, my goodness!   Dr. Chaudhary We ran the tables and were Wing champs, and that plaque still sits on my desk. It’s one of my most beloved things. You know, my wife, she's getting ready to toss it. I'm like, “No, no, not that!”   Naviere Walkewicz Not the water polo plaque!   Dr. Chaudhary She's like, “Oh, what about this graduation plaque from the Academy?” You can get rid of that, but don't get rid of my water polo plaque. That is beloved. So anyways, I was asking cadets today, “What's Deuce like?” I'm like, “So are you guys a training squadron?”   Naviere Walkewicz What are they like?   Dr. Chaudhary They're like, “We're the standards squadron.” And I'm like, “Wow, that's impressive.” I'm like, “What about Mach One? Are they the training?” So, they're like, “Mach One. Nah, not really.” They're like, “We're No. 1 in SAMIs. We're No. 1 is…? I'm like, “Oh, wow, they still have SAMIs and stuff like that.” Have fun. Yeah, that was a haze for me. Triple threats were always a haze, yes, so I never liked that, because well…   Naviere Walkewicz 18:49 Maybe the Deuce team does now.   Dr. Chaudhary 18:53 Mach One, they loved it. I’ve got friends from Mach One. They're gonna kill me, but yeah, they love it. They're all into it. Cleaning their rooms and Deuce would be on the corner going, “Would Mach One please go to bed?” So anyway, sorry. But yeah, it was an interesting time, you know, talking with some of our cadets.   Naviere Walkewicz 19:26 I love these stories. So, were you this happy as a cadet?   Dr. Chaudhary 19:31 No, I was not a happy cadet. I was a surviving kid. I was trying to get through the next day. And honestly, to me, it was always a wonder to be there, and I was always grateful for being there to serve. I was in a tough major, aero major, and honestly, it didn't come right away to me. And so I was not one of those sterling cadets that just rocks the house and everything. I was on the Comm List for a good portion of the time, but the academics took some time for me. I spent a lot of time in the aero lab. And, you know, the cool thing is, …  I did projects and drag reduction, and we we tested these winglets on the tips of wings, and we did flow visualization. I had this professor. His name was Tom Yechout, and I was talking to some aero majors today. They're like, “You know, Tom Yechout?” And I'm like…   Naviere Walkewicz He's still there.   Dr. Chaudhary “He teaches controls here” I go, “Well, he taught me flight controls as well.” But he supervised me, and one time, I think, maybe at the last reunion, he brought me to the cabinet, and he opened up the cabinet and he showed me the hardware that we used for our project.   Naviere Walkewicz 20:39 From your class?   Dr. Chaudhary 20:43 Yeah.   Naviere Walkewicz That’s amazing!   Dr. Chaudhary And here's why I'm telling you that: When in my interview with Sec. Kendall, he sat me down and he was talking about, “Hey, in your in your team, we're doing some drag reduction activities.” And he's like, “What do you know about blended wing body aircraft?” And it turns out, not only had I done some research on that, I had done a project at Staff College and to me, you know, my message to cadets out there who are working on a project who are wondering, “Hey, is this going to amount to anything? Does this matter?” I'm here to tell you that it does, because the type of work that goes on at this Academy is literally out of this world. We got folks who are working with SpaceX. I went down and that we're actually doing a project called the blended wing aircraft, which is like a big flying manta ray. It's going to reduce fuel consumption by roughly 30% to reduce fuel for fuel consumption across our Air Force and extend our range.   Naviere Walkewicz How are we going to do that?   Dr. Chaudhary Well, we're going to build a prototype in 2027. One of my sections is operational energy, and we have a team dedicated to reducing drag on aircraft, finding efficiencies. Why is this important? Well, it's because in Great Power Competition, we know that our adversaries are going to come after our logistics and fuel — our resources. And as a logistician, you know that. Our adversaries are targeting our installations, they're going to target our fuel resources. So, what's the best thing we can do? We can be as efficient as we can with our fuel and flying C-17s, is one thing you get to know real quick that if you land at an austere location, you're going to drain that fuel bladder almost instantly. And what does that mean? That means less sorties. That's less fire missions if you're flying Apache’s out of there. That means less fuel for generators if you lose power. That means less ability to get your CAPs in the air, and we've got to embody that as a department and be ready for what that challenge holds for us. So getting efficient with our field, to me, isn't something that we're going to do because we're nice. We're going to do it because it's going to be an imperative. It's going to be a strategic imperative, and we've got to be ready for that. And so, we've been working hard at those things. The blended wing body aircraft is a long-term thing that it's been out there for a long time, but we've got to proof it. And so, it's really cool…   Naviere Walkewicz It’s almost full-circle for you.   Dr. Chaudhary Yeah, it's incredible. And we just were at this, at the plant for Jet Zero. We did a visit there to spend some time with them and look at look at their production facility. And what do I see when I walk in the conference room? Five cadets sitting on the end of the table, learning, taking notes, interacting with the top systems engineers. And interestingly enough, one of those cadets had come and visited me and spent the summer — actually, three of them. She was part of a team of three that came and visited my organization and worked on the impacts of strategic temperature changes and how it will affect payloads for tanker aircraft. And so, they did this research, presented me this paper, and now here I am seeing them at industry being on the leading edge. And to me — let me tell you that filled me with so much optimism and excitement for the future, and most importantly, what we're producing here at the Air Force Academy, a top-notch engineering school that is regarded across the industry. So, a little turn to academics there, but big shout out to what we're doing across our academic programs. I just think we're on the right track, and we need to keep up the momentum.   Naviere Walkewicz 24:30 No, that's huge. I was actually going to ask you, how are you leveraging some of our cadets in some of the things you're doing? But it sounds like they're already doing it.   Dr. Chaudhary 24:40 Check! Done. They're rocking the house. Just, just leading the way. It's awesome.   Naviere Walkewicz 24:43 That's amazing. Yeah. So, let's talk about — and I'm really curious — so, after you graduate the Academy, did you know you always wanted to be a pilot, by the way? Did you know you wanted to fly?   Dr. Chaudhary 24:50 I can't remember a day where I wasn't drawing airplanes. And you're asking me about when I was younger. You know, “What kind of kid were you?” I was a kid who was drawing airplanes. OK, I was the kid with the airplane books. I was a kid who was checking out every single airplane book and library and learning about them and trying to understand them and wanting to know more. And so naturally, it was just — I can't think of a day where I didn't want to be an aerospace engineer, be a pilot. And you know, sometimes the ebb and flow of demand for the Air Force —there was a time of reduction in pilots for the for the Academy, and I didn't get that opportunity then and it was a bummer. But you know, if you do your full duty, the rest will take care of itself. And so, I landed at Los Angeles Air Force Base where we launched this program. I got to launch rocket programs. And you may have heard of this particular payload: It's called GPS.   Naviere Walkewicz 25:44 I might have heard of that one, yes…   Dr. Chaudhary 25:47 …and it was the first time we were doing it. And we're young lieutenants, and we're at Los Angeles Air Force Base, and I was getting the responsibility for third-stage engines and ordnance systems and some of the avionics, and my boss said, “We don't have time. We're launching rockets every single month. I need you to go out to this corporation called Thiokol, and I want you to buy that rocket.” And by the way, he said it in a way that was like, “Don't screw this up,” right?   Naviere Walkewicz The undertone was there.   Dr. Chaudhary Yeah, we’ve had that don't-screw-it-up moment. And so that was one of them. And so, the one thing that I remember is that our Academy demands a lot, and it demands a lot for a reason. Because leaders will be demanding a lot of brand new officers. Now the jury's out as to how well I did, but we had three we had three successful missions, and we delivered full operational capabilities for our department. And to me, I look back on that. I, believe it or not, still keep in touch with the captain who welcomed me, who brought me on the team and, in 2018, I got the incredible opportunity to let the last Delta II rocket go. And I brought my wife and my daughter with me, and that kind of brought the whole band back together. And it was cool to have kind of the old space cowboys and in the room again going, “Well, let's, let's let this rocket go for one last time.”   Naviere Walkewicz That is really cool.   Dr. Chaudhary And the best part of it was, after that rocket went and you felt the rumble — the rumble of a rocket, there's nothing like it in the world. When you feel the rumble go into your stomach — I leaned over my daughter. I go, “What do you think?” She said, “I am doing that.”   Naviere Walkewicz 27:34 I was just going to ask you, did it bleed over into your daughter?   Dr. Chaudhary 27:38 Now, she's a cadet at Georgia Tech. She just finished field training, and of course, like every good Academy graduate should do, buck the system. So, she bucked the system with her dad and said, “I'm gonna do ROTC and go to Georgia Tech. So, good luck this weekend against Navy. I'll kind of vote for you, but just want to let you know the Academy is a lot easier than Georgia Tech.” So, she and I jaw back and forth, but watching her grow has been really cool. And I got a chance to take her up and fly and get her ready for her career. She wants to be a pilot. And let me tell you, we got nothing on this next generation. They are ready for technology. They are ready for the leading edge, and we've just got to enable them. Honestly, we've got to get the hell out of the way and let them in. There's one situation, we had new avionics on the aircraft. I won't bore you with the details, but it allows you to deconflict from traffic. It's a GPS-based instrument, and I was kind of flying with her one time a few years ago, and I said, “All right, well, this is what is so, you know that little piece, you know 2,000 below you, positive means 2,000 above you. It's closing it…” She's like, “Dad, Dad, Dad, stop, stop!”   Naviere Walkewicz 28:58 She knew…   Dr. Chaudhary 29:00 She knew how to interact with that technology, and honestly, I didn't. I was learning how to interact with that technology. So, we've got to really make sure that we're blazing a path for our next generation, but at the same time, make sure that that we're not getting in their way. And I think sometimes we do that as grads. We’re like, “I was like this when I was there…” You know? I was at Mitchell Hall today, and I saw the 0-96 up there and it's memorialized. And I walked by that thing…   Naviere Walkewicz 29:32 Did you scan the QR code to fill one out?   Dr. Chaudhary 29:33 Yeah, I did not do the QR code. I was like, that's too much for me. But when you look at it, you know, I thought, I'm like, that's probably where that thing ought to be right now. It's a great remembrance of why it's important, why standards are important, and then the example of how it paid off in combat conditions and saved a life was pretty important. But I'll be honest with you, we find other ways today with this next generation. I can remember flying one mission and we lost SATCOMMS with a particular field, and we were roughly maybe six hours out for Iraq in the combat zone, and we didn't know the status of the field. And one of the things you need to do is make sure the field's not under attack. So, before we did that, we're like, “Hey, how do we get our 30-minute… You know, it just wasn't happening. But you know what we're doing. We had brevity codes. And all along the line, all the C-17s that were lined up miles after miles going all the way back to Azerbaijan at 30,000 feet. We're all on. We're communicating. … We're using brevity code, so, we're not giving anything away. We're using our brevity code, and we're saying this is the status of the field. And we're relaying, we're literally relaying a half world away. That's a testament to our pilot corps, testament to duty. And so it's really in the spirit of that 0-96 there that we've adopted. So, when people say, “Oh, that tradition is going to ruin us, you know, we're going to lose standards.” I could tell you that, even though we got rid of that thing, that we're still an effective force. And I think we have to understand that a little more and as we kind of move through a period of change at USAFA — I was talking to our cadets about, “Hey, what do you think about the changes?” and, “Yeah, well, restrictions, but I understand on the importance.” I'm going to hearken back to 1991 or so, when the first Gulf War kicked off, and we were cadets when that thing kicked off, and almost instantly we moved into BDUs. We started wearing those every day. We started creating the warfighter mindset. We sealed off to make sure that we had good security. We canceled a lot of passes, and you  know what we did? We moved from a fourth-class system to a four-class system. Sound familiar? Sound familiar? That was after the war kicked off. Think about that. After the war kicked off. Our superintendent is trying to do it before the war kicks off, to make sure that we're ready, ready to fight the fight and get into it. So, I have a lot of respect for our superintendent and taking this step. I do agree that we've got to get execution right. Sometimes you get some growing pains with those things, but I think we've got to step back in the grad community and digest a little bit and get behind some of the changes that have been going on. And I was talking to some cadets last night, I go, “What do you think of this?” And they're like, “We understand it. It hurts a little bit.” Because the expectations … the environment that we're in has now changed. And you know, honestly, I'll shoot straight from the hip and say that sometimes it feels like the goal post is being moved on you, because you meet one standard, and then they move again. Yeah, you know, things get tough, but we're a resilient institution, and when you get down to the brass tacks of who we are as grads, the core of what we do and execute our mission will never go away. And we've just got to blaze a path for our next generation to be successful.   Naviere Walkewicz 33:24 Absolutely. Well, speaking of blaze a path — and I think some of our listeners want to hear sometimes, you know they have times when they fail at things in leadership. How do you grow from that? Can you share a time when you experience failure and what it looked like, to help inspire them through that.   Dr. Chaudhary 33:42 Yep. Well, worst day of my life was when I failed a check-ride. I failed a simulator check-ride in the C-17. And it hurt. It hurt bad. I had aspirations in my career. I was like, “What's this gonna mean for me?” But you know some really smart folks, and that's when you turn to people who you really go to for advice, and it's like, you know, “Ravi, there are those who have and those who will.” So honestly, I just needed a smack in the head. They're like, “Get over it, man. You know, whatever you failed check-ride. Go out there, clean that thing up and those ups and downs in a flying career occur.” I'm being 100% honest with you, my failures are stacked up right next to my successes. And so, I think, to me, the failures were the things that helped me grow, grow through things and sometimes you think, “OK, well, that failure was unfair. I got, you know, I got a raw deal out of that.” Maybe I did, maybe I didn't, but you keep moving forward. Keep taking one step after another. Now I'm not a football guy. I love football. Watch about I never played football, but I do know what running back coaches say. I think, I'm not sure, they say, “Above all, always keep your legs moving. Don't ever up when you're running. Keep your legs moving.” And so, to me, I've always taken that advice. I've given that advice to other people too, especially when they come to me with challenges.   Naviere Walkewicz 35:09 That’s great advice. So maybe we can talk about your role now a little bit. And so, can you actually explain what you do? It might actually be shorter to say what you don't do, because when I look at the description, it's quite a bit. We have listeners that are parents and that maybe don't have a lot of military background and really understand. So, I think it's wonderful to share with the full community.   Dr. Chaudhary 35:31 Yeah, let me talk about the position. So, the job is one of those long titles. It's the assistant secretary for energy, installations and the environment. First thing first. I'm not a military member. I am a presidential appointee, so my job is as an appointee, a Senate-confirmed appointee. That means that you go through a hearing like you see in TV, and you get voted on, right? You get the vote. I was lucky enough to have after a period of being held, I had a bipartisan vote. And so that was pretty neat to have that. But my role specifically is to ensure that our installations are ready for the fight, for the future fight, and for current conditions. Things that I lose sleep over: Right now we're in a decade of consequence that our secretary and chief regularly say that decade of consequence includes great power competition in which China and Russia seek to shape the world order in ways that that work to their advantage, in autocratic manner, and so we've got to be ready for that, and that includes establishing an important deterrence. So, my job is to make sure installations are strong and present an approach of deterrence, and when deterrence failed, be ready to win. So, what does that mean for us? That means ensuring that our installations have power capabilities, that have strong runways, that have strong hangars, strong facilities, and included in which — families live on installations as well — to ensure we have top-notch housing. So, you'll see me reaching across all those areas, but importantly enough, making sure that those installations have the right power is critical. Our adversaries have declared their intent and have the capacity to go after our critical infrastructure, and that's the one thing that keeps me up at night: making sure that we have critical redundancies and opportunities to if somebody comes after our infrastructure tries to cut our power, we have redundant capabilities, that our control systems are cyber hardened. And you mentioned earlier, both kinetic and cyber threats. So roughly in the past two decades, as China has modernized our CENTCOM theater has really shaped an environment in which CONUS installations are under threat a little bit, but not entirely. We could be relatively confident that Grand Forks would be generally safe from ISIS from a major attack. In Great Power Competition, all of that goes out the window. Our adversaries, to include Russia and China, know how to go after critical infrastructure. They know how to employ cyber capabilities, and that's why we've got to make sure that we are pursuing cyber hardened energy control systems that protect you from those threats, and the ability to island from the local grid when we need to. So, here's one thing we're doing. I'm on a march over the next five years to bring 20 or so micro grids across our most critical installations. A micro grid — it's kind of like a power bar. You plug it in the wall and you can plug in renewable energy, you plug in wind, geo, you know, all kinds of things into that — solar — to build critical redundancies. So ultimately, building those redundancies allows you to harden your capabilities at the installation and micro-reactors give you the ability to manage and distribute power where you need it. Now we can also put in battery storage. So, battery storage allows you to — when the balloon goes up, boom, put in a firewall with the local community and get the jets out of town. Keep your employed in-place mission moving and build critical redundancies. Then once the jets are out of town, plug back in and share that power with a local community, because we know that our adversaries are going to be driving civil disruption to affect the efficiency of our installations as well, too. So that dynamic is really complex.   Naviere Walkewicz Wow, and the time is compressed.   Dr. Chaudhary And the time is compressed, so we won't have time to react as quickly. So, we've got to prepare for an all-new environment in our installations. And it goes right back to the Hap Arnold quote. We've got to make sure that they're ready to ensure our operations are effective. And I was recently at Eielson Air Force Base, and what we're doing at Eielson is really novel. We're going to put in a small, modular micro-reactor, a small baby nuclear reactor.   Naviere Walkewicz Is there a small version of that?   Dr. Chaudhary Yeah, there is a small version, but it hadn't been developed yet, and we decided that we're going to push on with this new capability and bring it to Eielson Air Force Base. The key is to now — back in the day, we used to do something, proof it military-wise, and then see if it's viable in the in the commercial market, right? Not anymore. We're going to do it all concurrently. So, we're going to pursue a Nuclear Regulatory Commission license. We've been engaging the local community. They love it, including tribal nations, who know that power advantages are going to be important for sharing in the community. And so that will be the first micronuclear reactor in any installation. We're looking to award in the spring or sooner, and then get this thing up and running in 2027. Why is this important at Eielson? And you're like, “Whoa, it's way up in Alaska.” Eielson is a critical entry point for the INDOPACOM theater.   Naviere Walkewicz I was gonna say, where it's located…   Dr. Chaudhary It's where the one of the highest concentrations of our 5th-gen fighter force is at. It’s where we do air defense, and it's where our mobility forces will be moving from Fort Wainwright all the way down range. So that's a critical node, and there's a few more of those that we've got to really, really stay focused on. So, energy and, by the way, a happy Energy Action Month as well. This month is Energy Action Month where we're looking at how we can improve power consumption across our Air Force and be more efficient. And bringing these micro-grids online is going to be a crucial, crucial aspect of that.   Naviere Walkewicz 42:07 Well, something I've learned about you is that you're not afraid to push the envelope, push the speed, but do it, like you said, concurrently and to find some solutions. And I don't know that there's anyone else that could do it just like are you're doing it.   Dr. Chaudhary 42:19 It's not me, it's my team. I have an incredible team of folks that refuse to accept anything [less] than excellence in our department. In fact, we have a saying in our organization that, “We eat no for breakfast.” So, I dare you to tell us no and that we can't do something. One of our coolest announcements recently that we were told “no” to for roughly three years, was a new apartment complex at Edwards Air Force Base. So, some folks may not know this, but Edwards Air Force Space is very isolated, and it's located in the desert, and so it takes roughly 45 minutes to get to the base once you get through the gate. And so, isolation of our military members, especially our junior enlisted, has been around for roughly four decades or more. And when we said, “Hey, let's do a venture-backed business model that allows us to bring state of the art departments not in MILCOM timeline like right now, timeline…” And so, we just announced an all-new venture commercial apartment complex that we just broke ground on, and we're going to start building, hopefully done by 2026 and these are timelines that allow us to move the Air Force forward aggressively. Another thing that we're doing is, I just announced a $1.1 billion investment in our dormitories and CDCs. As you know, quality of life is so critical. Back to this: If we're going to be, say that we're the number, have the number one installations in the world, we've got to live up to it, and that means our families need that too, as well. So, you've heard a lot about the GAO reports, everything from mold to decrepit housing. We're going to fix that, we're going to get ahead of it, and we're going to stay ahead of it. And so that's why our secretary, in our most recent president's budget, announced this. All we need is a budget now, yeah, and so, so our secretary is pressing hard for that, and we know that once that budget is approved, we can get working on these things and start changing quality of life and start upping our game in our installations.   Naviere Walkewicz 44:23 Well, I'm gonna take one of those leadership nuggets as “just eat no for breakfast,” but we're gonna learn more about your final takeaway lessons. Before we do that with you. Dr Chaudhary, I wanna thank you for listening to Long Blue Leadership. The podcast publishes Tuesdays in both video and audio, and it's available on all your favorite podcast platforms, watch or listen to all episodes of Long Blue Leadership at longblueleadership.org. Dr Chaudhary, this has been incredible. If you might leave our listeners with one thing, what would you like to share with them when it comes to leadership, or maybe just some lessons or anything about you that you'd like to share?   Dr. Chaudhary 44:57 Love what you do. Love our nation. I love my country because it's given me and my family everything. And I want everybody to believe that, you know, sometimes we get in these periods where we feel divided right across the spectrum, and it doesn't matter what your affiliation is, sometimes you just feel that. But I want folks to remember that America is not about what goes on entirely in Washington. It's about neighbors. It's about what you do for your neighbors. And to me, that's our biggest strength as a nation. You know, many years ago, our forefathers felt that the values of equality, fair treatment and self-determination would be enough to topple an empire, and it is. We should believe that too, and I want everybody to know that. So, it's an honor to be here. But before I go, I want to say thank you for just an intriguing hour. It's an honor to be here, and I want to give you my personal challenge coin…   Naviere Walkewicz Oh my goodness…   Dr. Chaudhary …and say thank you so much. It embodies a lot of what we do, military family housing, airfields, of course our beautiful 5th-gen fighter aircraft and our wind power and capabilities as a symbol of what we've got to do for installation school.   Naviere Walkewicz 46:16 That is an honor, sir. Thank you. Thank you so much. Oh my goodness, thank you.   Dr. Chaudhary 46:20 It was a great hour, and just a pleasure to spend time with…   Naviere Walkewicz 46:26 It was my pleasure. There’s so much I wanted ask you and I know we’re limited on time … Is there anything we can do for you?   Dr. Chaudhary 46:36 Just keep doing what you do. Keep making sure that our grads out there have a voice, have a say, and can contribute to all this institution has to offer our nation. And so, you're doing it, and I can't thank you enough for it.   Naviere Walkewicz 46:49 Thank you very much.     KEYWORDS Air Force, Dr. Ravi Chaudhary, leadership, installations, energy, community service, innovation, military, great power competition, sustainability, Air Force Academy, leadership, aviation, innovation, energy solutions, GPS, pilot training, military standards, personal growth, resilience     MORE FROM DR. CHAUDHARY ON THE FOR THE ZOOMIES PODCAST with C1C ANDREW CORMIER ’25     The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association and Foundation