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Melody or Witchcraft

Podcast de Kathryn Petruccelli

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Conversations with today's poets and writers about Emily Dickinson and about the scope and sources of creative influence and the relevance of the past. Guests choose a Dickinson poem and one of their own to read. kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com

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18 episodios

episode Bonus Bit: Matt Donovan artwork

Bonus Bit: Matt Donovan

Matt and I discuss Hanif Abdurraqib’s work, specifically Matt brings up Little Devil in America: Notes in Praise of Black Performance [https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/49247757-a-little-devil-in-america]. There’s a touch of general chatter after the official recording’s end for those of you who (like me) crave a peek behind the curtain, so to speak, and that then leads into some info for Sylvia Plath fans: Matt reveals a new project that the Boutelle-Day Poetry Center at Smith College (Plath’s alma mater) will roll out. “Brooke” referred to in the conversation is Brooke Steinhauser of the Emily Dickinson Museum. “Jen” referred to in our conversation is Jen Jabaily-Blackburn [https://www.jenjabailyblackburn.com/] from the Center. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe [https://kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_2]

11 de may de 2026 - 5 min
episode Matt Donovan: filling in the gaps artwork

Matt Donovan: filling in the gaps

Matt Donovan [https://mattdonovanwriting.com/] is the author most recently of We Are Not Where We Are (Bull City Press, 2025) which was co-authored with Jenny George, and The Dug-Up Gun Museum (BOA 2022). He is the recipient of a Whiting Award, a Rome Prize in Literature, a Pushcart Prize, and an NEA Fellowship in Literature. Donovan serves as the director of the Boutelle-Day Poetry Center at Smith College. If you’re reading this somewhere other than Substack, these notes will be abridged and photos will not appear. Join the Ask the Poet Substack (kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com) for complete show notes with images, correct poetry formatting, and regular notices of new episodes. The poem as Matt read it and as we discussed it appears as below (which is what you’ll find on the poets.org site from The Further Poems of Emily Dickinson (Little, Brown, and Company, 1929), edited by Martha Dickinson Bianchi and Alfred Leete Hampson). Empty my heart of thee —Its single artery,Begin to leave thee out —Simply extinction’s date. Much billow hath the seamOne Baltic — they,Subtract thyself, in play,And not enough of meIs left to put away —“Myself” meant thee. Erase the root, no tree ;Thee — then no me —The Heavens stripped,Eternity’s wide pocket picked. Below is the version in Thomas Johnson’s 1955 The Complete Poems of Emily Dickinson. (You’ll see there are a couple differences – one very significant one in the first line of the second stanza considering my conversation with Matt!) Empty my Heart, of Thee —Its single Artery,Begin, and leave thee out —Simply Extinction’s Date – Much Billow hath the Sea – One Baltic — They –Subtract thyself, in play,And not enough of meIs left – to put away —“Myself” meant Thee – Erase the Root – no Tree –Thee — then – no me —The Heavens stripped –Eternity’s vast pocket, picked – The View from Under Emily Dickinson’s BedMatt Donovan “The Emily Dickinson Museum in Amherst rents outthe poet’s bedroom where she wrote.” —New England Public Radio Some chair legs and the legs of the provided writing deskyou ignored. Several inches of wallpaper vine tangleand pink roses clustered just above the room’s cream trim.The heating vent’s grid with its darkness divided intolittle squares and the pleated hem of the white dress wornby a headless mannequin intended as a stand-in for the poet.Isn’t this what you wanted? To pay for an hour alonein this room, and then, for reasons you never tried to name,shimmy-shove your way beneath after the docent leaves?To be scrunched, wedged between floor and slats, badassand weird-ass all at once, craning your neck, taking it in.Maybe don’t sweat the low-hanging why-am-I-doing-thisthat comes knocking if you let it. You’ve made a strange choice,but that’s more than OK, and now this is where you are,unsure where to place your hands or what to do with everythingyou can see from within this cramped space you chose. Other Dickinson poems referenced: A narrow Fellow in the Grass [https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/49909/a-narrow-fellow-in-the-grass-1096] The Installment: Art installment at the Dickinson Homestead (Amherst, Massachusetts) by Matt Donovan and Ligia Bouton: “A Something Overtakes the Mind.” [https://www.emilydickinsonmuseum.org/opening-reception-a-something-overtakes-the-mind/] Matt notes the help of Megan Ramsey, Emily Dickinson Museum Collections Manager. Here is a short introductory video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-fqf8VlpAk] about her background and her work cataloguing the collection and managing the warehouse. You’ll be able to find other videos online produced by the museum that look at various pieces held by the museum but that are not necessarily displayed to the public. In addition, on the website, you can virtually look through the collection of objects owned by the museum [https://www.emilydickinsonmuseum.org/museum-collection/], from Dickinson’s shawl to tea cups to her nephew’s banjo… People mentioned in the interview: Walt Whitman [https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/walt-whitman] Jenny George [https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/jenny-george] James Wright [https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/james-wright], his book The Branch Will Not Break [https://poets.org/book/branch-will-not-break] Ross Gay [https://www.rossgay.net/about] Thank you for listening and reading. Please leave a comment! Please rate the podcast wherever you listen! Please consider supporting this work and its future by becoming a paid subscriber to Melody or Witchcraft. New Workshop Opportunity: This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe [https://kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_2]

11 de may de 2026 - 36 min
episode Kelli Russell Agodon: led by the dead artwork

Kelli Russell Agodon: led by the dead

Kelli Russell Agodon [https://d.docs.live.net/fbd9a6288ba8b308/Desktop/EDM/PODCAST/agodon.com]‘s next book Accidental Devotions will be published by Copper Canyon Press in May 2026. Her previous collection, Dialogues with Rising Tides, was a finalist for the Washington State Book Awards. Kelli is the cofounder of Two Sylvias Press and teaches in Pacific Lutheran University’s MFA program, the Rainier Writing Workshop. She is also the cohost of the poetry series Poems You Need with Melissa Studdard. If you’re reading this somewhere other than Substack, these notes will be abridged and photos will not appear. Join the Ask the Poet Substack (kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com) for complete show notes with images, correct poetry formatting, and regular notices of new episodes. Best Witchcraft is Geometry To the magician’s mind – His ordinary acts are feats To thinking of mankind. Fact Check: I called the religious fervor that dominated Dickinson’s era the “Second Great Revival” – it’s more commonly referred to as the “Second Great Awakening.” Here’s one place to find out more [https://www.americanhistorycentral.com/entries/second-great-awakening/]. And here’s Wikipedia’s version. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Great_Awakening] A fuller version and citation for a quote I referenced: “How do most people live without any thoughts. There are so many people in the world (you must have noticed them in the street) How do they live. How do they get strength to put on their clothes in the morning.” (L342A, August 1870; T.W. Higginson quoting Emily Dickinson in letter to his wife) Kelli and I were both a bit off on the “I’m out with ‘lamps’…” quote. It’s “I’m out with lanterns looking for myself.” That line comes from a letter Dickinson wrote during the time the family was moving back to the Homestead from the house they lived in when she was 9-25 years old. The house sat not far from the Main Street Homestead on North Pleasant Street, Amherst. (It no longer exists.) She was not pleased about the move at the time. She also would not get in a carriage but walked while their belongings were being transferred. Here’s more of the context the quote comes from—she’s likening it to a funeral procession and being her wry self in the process: “I cannot tell you how we moved. I had rather not remember. I believe my ‘effects’ were brought in a bandbox, and the ‘deathless me,’ on foot, not many moments after. I took at the time a memorandum of my several senses, and also of my hat and coat, and my best shoes - but it was lost in the melee, and I am out with lanterns, looking for myself.” (Letter 182, January 20, 1856 to Elizabeth Holland) I comment that Adrienne Rich [https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/adrienne-rich] “was talking about” Emily & Susan possibly being romantically involved back in the 70s. (Or, more specifically, she talks about how ignoring that possibility has stunted our interpretations of ED’s genius.) Rich’s article from 1975, “Vesuvius at Home: The Power of Emily Dickinson,” can be found here [https://www.scribd.com/document/576458090/Vesuvius-at-Home-the-Power-of-Emily-Dickinson-by-Adrienne-Rich]. In the article, Rich talks about many important aspects of how Dickinson was—and in some respects still is—portrayed and the damage it does. Here is a bit from early in the article: Virtually all criticism of this poet’s work suffers from the literary and historical silence and secrecy surrounding intense woman to woman relationships—a central element in Dickinson’s life and art; and by the assumption that she was asexual or heterosexually “sublimated.” ... [L]esbian/feminist criticism has the power to illuminate the work of any woman artist, beyond proving her a “practicing lesbian” or not. Such a criticism will ask questions hitherto passed over; will not search obsessively for heterosexual romance as the key to a woman artist’s life and work; will ask how she came to be for herself and how she identified with and was able to use women’s culture, a women’s tradition; and what the presence of other women meant in her life. Books referenced: The Gorgeous Nothings by Marta L. Werner and Jen Bervin. Here is a page with the book/stats [https://books.google.ie/books/about/The_Gorgeous_Nothings.html?id=PH0xMwEACAAJ&redir_esc=y] on the book. Here’s a lovely page with a bit more about it [https://gwarlingo.com/2014/the-gorgeous-nothings-emily-dickinsons-envelope-poems/] and nice representation of some of the scans. The Envelope Poems [https://www.ndbooks.com/book/envelope-poems/] is the small, abbreviated version of Dickinson’s poems on scraps. Other Dickinson poems referenced: Forever – is composed of – Nows [https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/52202/forever-is-composed-of-nows-690] The Poets light but Lamps— [https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/56822/the-poets-light-but-lamps-930] “Forever might be short” that Kelli mentioned as her opening quote is from this one: To love thee Year by Year —May less appearThan sacrifice, and cease —However, dear,Forever might be short, I thought to show —And so I pieced it, with a flower, now. People mentioned: Thomas Wentworth Higginson [https://www.emilydickinsonmuseum.org/thomas-wentworth-higginson-1823-1911-correspondent/] Elizabeth Bishop [https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/elizabeth-bishop] Walt Whitman [https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/walt-whitman] (Sylvia) Plath [https://poets.org/poet/sylvia-plath] Rick Barot [https://d.docs.live.net/fbd9a6288ba8b308/Desktop/EDM/PODCAST/rickbarot.com] Edna St. Vincent Millay [https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/edna-st-vincent-millay] (Rainer Maria) Rilke [https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/rainer-maria-rilke] Susan Huntington Gilbert Dickinson [https://www.emilydickinsonmuseum.org/susan-huntington-gilbert-dickinson-1830-1913-sister-in-law/] Martha “Marty” Silano [https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/martha-silano] Kelli talks about correspondences of writers that we have and notes the “Bishop to Lowell” letters. Go to the link to learn about the book Words in Air: The Complete Correspondence between Elizabeth Bishop and Robert Lowell [https://www.barnesandnoble.com/blog/words-in-air-the-complete-correspondence-between-elizabeth-bishop-and-robert-lowell/]. Terrance Hayes [https://www.britannica.com/biography/Terrance-Hayes] The link will take you to a Britannica article about him which I picked because you can see him wearing two watches in the picture. Linda Bierds (University of Washington) [https://english.washington.edu/people/linda-bierds] (Jack) Kerouac [https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/jack-kerouac] Langston Hughes [https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/langston-hughes] Jane Hirshfield [https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/jane-hirshfield] Places & other references: Sylvia Beach Hotel’s Emily Dickinson Room that Kelli mentions staying in when writing her earlier book, seems to have been a victim of progress. There are still seven author-themed rooms in the newly branded “Hotel Sylvia [https://www.hotelsylvia.com/rooms/?filters%5B%5D=author-themed-rooms&filters%5B%5D=literary-genre-themed-rooms]” – Maya Angelou and Agatha Christie among them, but things look a bit more standardized. And poor Em doesn’t seem to have made the cut at all. Some background on the Anything that Moves [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anything_That_Moves] magazine. The Burren [https://www.nationalparks.ie/burren/] is an area in County Clare, in the west of Ireland known for its unusual landscape of dissolving and porous limestone. Maria Popova’s article about Emily & Sue’s letters can be found here [https://www.themarginalian.org/2018/12/10/emily-dickinson-love-letters-susan-gilbert/]. (Small note: in it, Popova mentions Susan and Austin marrying in the “fall,” however, they were married July 1st (1856)). This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe [https://kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_2]

4 de may de 2026 - 37 min
episode Victoria Kennefick: the sensitive heart artwork

Victoria Kennefick: the sensitive heart

Dr. Victoria Kennefick [https://www.victoriakennefick.com/] is a writer, poet, editor and teacher who lives in Tralee, Co. Kerry (Ireland). She completed a PhD in Irish and American Literature at University College Cork and was a Fulbright Scholar at Emory University. Her debut collection, Eat or We Both Starve (Carcanet Press, 2021), won the Seamus Heaney First Collection Poetry Prize and the Dalkey Book Festival Emerging Writer of the Year Award. It was shortlisted for the T.S. Eliot Prize, the Costa Poetry Book Award, Derek Walcott Prize for Poetry and the Butler Literary Prize. Her second collection, Egg/Shell (Carcanet Press, 2024) was a Poetry Book Society Choice for Spring 2024 and won the Farmgate Café National Poetry Prize 2025. She was the 2025 Arts Council of Ireland/Trinity College Dublin Writer Fellow. If you’re reading this somewhere other than Substack, these notes will be abridged and photos will not appear. Join the Ask the Poet Substack (kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com) for complete show notes with images, correct poetry formatting, and regular notices of new episodes. Another quick note: The formatting of Dana Levin’s poem from Episode 7 [https://kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/p/dana-levin-poetry-as-an-endurance] was incorrect and now has been corrected. I cannot live with You – It would be Life – And Life is over there – Behind the Shelf The Sexton keeps the Key to – Putting upOur Life – His Porcelain – Like a Cup – Discarded of the Housewife – Quaint – or Broke – A newer Sevres pleases – Old Ones crack – I could not die – with You – For One must waitTo shut the Other’s Gaze down – You – could not – And I – could I stand byAnd see You – freeze – Without my Right of Frost – Death’s privilege? Nor could I rise – with You – Because Your FaceWould put out Jesus’ – That New Grace Glow plain – and foreignOn my homesick Eye – Except that You than HeShone closer by – They’d judge Us – How – For You – served Heaven – You know,Or sought to – I could not – Because You saturated Sight – And I had no more EyesFor sordid excellenceAs Paradise And were You lost, I would be – Though My NameRang loudestOn the Heavenly fame – And were You – saved – And I – condemned to beWhere You were not – That self – were Hell to Me – So We must meet apart – You there – I – here – With just the Door ajarThat Oceans are – and Prayer – And that White Sustenance – Despair – Valentine Poem for my ValentineVictoria Kennefick Surely by now, you must be familiarwith my heart’s alarming habits – how itexpands beyond the parameters of its rusty cage.How lumps of its slick muscle push throughthe bars in such an unsightly manner – all shinyand hot. I am ashamed of its size and hungeryet still try to offer you its bloody chambers.At times, I quickly shove it in your pocket or satchelwhen you’re not looking. Others, I sneak itinto your tin cigarette box, or lob it into the bootof your car as you drive away from me back to the city(What am I to do?). Sometimes, I even manageto balance it on the tiny freckle tuckedinto the palm of your hand. I’ve secreted itinto envelopes, Friday night dinners, and maybe eveninto poems where it thumps clumsily behindtangible descriptions trying to mask its ooze and bulk.I have tried to hide the lumbering oaf that is my heart, like this –thinking you would find it and see how careless I am with it.How free. Oh! What a grift – because here I must come clean.I have wanted to tell you how desiccated it was.How it had been shrunk to the size of a screw top –dry and crumbling – I never, ever wanted to use it again.Do you understand? I thought I was dead and my pulsethe sound of pebbles caving in on my chest like a grave.I didn’t think it would be painful letting it grow againto the size of the whole world, that it would become a planetlike this, that it would be where you live. People & concepts mentioned: The Master Letters [https://www.emilydickinsonmuseum.org/roomitem/master-letters/] Victoria’s mention of Walt Whitman [https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/walt-whitman] “shouting at the traffic”perhaps came from here: “Beat! beat! drums!--blow! bugles! blow! / Over the traffic of cities--over the rumble of wheels in the streets…” (from “Beat! Beat! Drums!”) I make reference to the idea that Emily’s brother Austin “wanted to be planting trees.” From emilydickinsonmuseum.org: “Emily Dickinson came from a family of nature lovers. Her mother, Emily Norcross, was an avid gardener who passed on her skills to her daughters, Emily and Lavinia. The poet’s brother Austin shared her extensive knowledge of and delight in the natural world. While a student at Amherst College, Austin’s life-long interest in landscape design was sparked by the lectures of Edward Hitchcock about the careful landscaping of European cities and towns. As Treasurer of Amherst College (1873-1895), Austin Dickinson took particular pleasure in landscaping of the College grounds, cultivating at the same time a close relationship with prominent landscape architects Frederick Law Olmsted and Calvert Vaux. He later led the effort to drain and beautify the town common, and spearheaded the drive to form a new style of park-like cemetery in Amherst after the fashion of Mt. Auburn Cemetery in Cambridge.” Victoria mentions Seamus Heaney [https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/seamus-heaney]’s first book, Death of a Naturalist, and the iconic Heaney poem “Digging [https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/47555/digging]” The “reverend” Victoria refers to would be Charles Wadsworth, whom Dickinson met in her one venture outside the state of Massachusetts in 1855 where he was preaching in Philadelphia. She apparently fell quite hard for him and there’s some evidence (an unannounced visit to the Homestead etc.) that the feeling was mutual. However, he was already married. Some believe Wadsworth may be the “master” of the Master Letters. (W.B.) Yeats [https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/william-butler-yeats] (William) Wordsworth [https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/william-wordsworth] “Learning Cert” refers to the final exams required of secondary school students in Ireland. (Patrick) Kavanaugh [https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/patrick-kavanagh] Sylvia Plath [https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/sylvia-plath] Other Dickinson poems mentioned: “Faith” is a fine inventionFor Gentlemen who see!But Microscopes are prudentIn an Emergency! Recorded February 12, 2026. Thank you for taking the time to repost, review, comment, and share! New workshop opportunity: This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe [https://kathrynpetruccelli.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_2]

27 de abr de 2026 - 38 min
Muy buenos Podcasts , entretenido y con historias educativas y divertidas depende de lo que cada uno busque. Yo lo suelo usar en el trabajo ya que estoy muchas horas y necesito cancelar el ruido de al rededor , Auriculares y a disfrutar ..!!
Muy buenos Podcasts , entretenido y con historias educativas y divertidas depende de lo que cada uno busque. Yo lo suelo usar en el trabajo ya que estoy muchas horas y necesito cancelar el ruido de al rededor , Auriculares y a disfrutar ..!!
Fantástica aplicación. Yo solo uso los podcast. Por un precio módico los tienes variados y cada vez más.
Me encanta la app, concentra los mejores podcast y bueno ya era ora de pagarles a todos estos creadores de contenido

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