How to Govern AI When You Can't Predict the Future (with Charlie Bullock)

Why We Should Build AI Tools, Not AI Replacements (with Anthony Aguirre)

Anthony Aguirre is the CEO of the Future of Life Institute. He joins the podcast to discuss A Better Path for AI, his essay series on steering AI away from races to replace people. The conversation covers races for attention, attachment, automation, and superintelligence, and how these can concentrate power and undermine human agency. Anthony argues for purpose-built AI tools under meaningful human control, with liability, access limits, external guardrails, and international cooperation. LINKS: * A Better Path for AI [https://betterpathfor.ai] * What You Can Do [https://betterpathfor.ai/what-you-can-do/] CHAPTERS: (00:00) Episode Preview (01:03) Attention, attachment, automation (13:58) Superintelligence power race (26:39) Escaping replacement dynamics (40:15) Pro-human tool AI (53:30) Guardrails and verification (01:03:24) Defining pro-human AI (01:10:37) Agents and accountability (01:17:28) International AI cooperation (01:25:28) Rethinking AI alignment (01:32:43) Optimism and action PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing [https://aipodcast.ing] SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://podcast.futureoflife.org [https://podcast.futureoflife.org] Twitter (FLI): https://x.com/FLI_org [https://x.com/FLI_org] Twitter (Gus): https://x.com/gusdocker [https://x.com/gusdocker] LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/future-of-life-institute/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/future-of-life-institute/] YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-rCCy3FQ-GItDimSR9lhzw/ [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-rCCy3FQ-GItDimSR9lhzw/] Apple: https://geo.itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1170991978 [https://geo.itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1170991978] Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2Op1WO3gwVwCrYHg4eoGyP [https://open.spotify.com/show/2Op1WO3gwVwCrYHg4eoGyP]

How to Govern AI When You Can't Predict the Future (with Charlie Bullock)

Charlie Bullock is a Senior Research Fellow at the Institute for Law and AI. He joins the podcast to discuss radical optionality: how governments can prepare for very advanced AI without locking in premature rules. The conversation covers why law often trails technology, and how transparency, reporting, evaluations, cybersecurity standards, and expanded technical hiring could help. We also discuss private oversight, state versus federal rules, and the risk of concentrating power in companies or government. LINKS: * Radical Optionality website [https://radical-optionality.ai/] * Charlie Bullock [https://law-ai.org/team/charlie-bullock/] CHAPTERS: (00:00) Episode Preview (01:04) The pacing problem (06:18) Defining radical optionality (11:03) Assumptions under uncertainty (16:00) Industry convenience concerns (20:41) Political will realities (26:48) Private governance limits (30:28) Government misuse risks (36:29) Balancing institutional power (42:25) Transparency and reporting (49:35) Evaluations, security, talent (58:26) State law preemption (01:04:20) Historical nuclear analogies PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing [https://aipodcast.ing] SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://podcast.futureoflife.org [https://podcast.futureoflife.org] Twitter (FLI): https://x.com/FLI_org [https://x.com/FLI_org] Twitter (Gus): https://x.com/gusdocker [https://x.com/gusdocker] LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/future-of-life-institute/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/future-of-life-institute/] YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-rCCy3FQ-GItDimSR9lhzw/ [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-rCCy3FQ-GItDimSR9lhzw/] Apple: https://geo.itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1170991978 [https://geo.itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1170991978] Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2Op1WO3gwVwCrYHg4eoGyP [https://open.spotify.com/show/2Op1WO3gwVwCrYHg4eoGyP]

How to Govern AI When You Can't Predict the Future (with Charlie Bullock)

Charlie Bullock is a Senior Research Fellow at the Institute for Law and AI. He joins the podcast to discuss radical optionality: how governments can prepare for very advanced AI without locking in premature rules. The conversation covers why law often trails technology, and how transparency, reporting, evaluations, cybersecurity standards, and expanded technical hiring could help. We also discuss private oversight, state versus federal rules, and the risk of concentrating power in companies or government. LINKS: * Radical Optionality website [https://radical-optionality.ai/] * Charlie Bullock [https://law-ai.org/team/charlie-bullock/] CHAPTERS: (00:00) Episode Preview (01:04) The pacing problem (06:18) Defining radical optionality (11:03) Assumptions under uncertainty (16:00) Industry convenience concerns (20:41) Political will realities (26:48) Private governance limits (30:28) Government misuse risks (36:29) Balancing institutional power (42:25) Transparency and reporting (49:35) Evaluations, security, talent (58:26) State law preemption (01:04:20) Historical nuclear analogies PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing [https://aipodcast.ing] SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://podcast.futureoflife.org [https://podcast.futureoflife.org] Twitter (FLI): https://x.com/FLI_org [https://x.com/FLI_org] Twitter (Gus): https://x.com/gusdocker [https://x.com/gusdocker] LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/future-of-life-institute/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/future-of-life-institute/] YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-rCCy3FQ-GItDimSR9lhzw/ [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-rCCy3FQ-GItDimSR9lhzw/] Apple: https://geo.itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1170991978 [https://geo.itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1170991978] Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2Op1WO3gwVwCrYHg4eoGyP [https://open.spotify.com/show/2Op1WO3gwVwCrYHg4eoGyP]

Why AI Is Not a Normal Technology (with Peter Wildeford)

Peter Wildeford is Head of Policy at the AI Policy Network, and a top AI forecaster. He joins the podcast to discuss how to forecast AI progress and what current trends imply for the economy and national security. Peter argues AI is neither a bubble nor a normal technology, and we examine benchmark trends, adoption lags, unemployment and productivity effects, and the rise of cyber capabilities. We also cover robotics, export controls, prediction markets, and when AI may surpass human forecasters. LINKS: * Peter Wildeford Blog [https://blog.peterwildeford.com] CHAPTERS: (00:00) Episode Preview (01:12) AI bubble debate (06:25) Normal technology question (15:31) Mythos security implications (30:47) Robotics and labor (40:27) Social economic response (48:57) Forecasting methodology (59:49) AGI policy timelines (01:11:13) Forecasting with AI PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing [https://aipodcast.ing] SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://podcast.futureoflife.org [https://podcast.futureoflife.org] Twitter (FLI): https://x.com/FLI_org [https://x.com/FLI_org] Twitter (Gus): https://x.com/gusdocker [https://x.com/gusdocker] LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/future-of-life-institute/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/future-of-life-institute/] YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-rCCy3FQ-GItDimSR9lhzw/ [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-rCCy3FQ-GItDimSR9lhzw/] Apple: https://geo.itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1170991978 [https://geo.itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1170991978] Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2Op1WO3gwVwCrYHg4eoGyP [https://open.spotify.com/show/2Op1WO3gwVwCrYHg4eoGyP]

Why AI Evaluation Science Can't Keep Up (with Carina Prunkl)

Carina Prunkl is a researcher at Inria. She joins the podcast to discuss how to assess the capabilities and risks of general-purpose AI. We examine why systems can solve hard coding and math problems yet still fail at simple tasks, why pre-deployment tests often miss real-world behavior, and how faster capability gains can increase misuse risks. The conversation also covers de-skilling, red teaming, layered safeguards, and warning signs that AIs might undermine oversight. LINKS: * Carina Prunkl personal website [https://carina-prunkl.squarespace.com] CHAPTERS: (00:00) Episode Preview (01:04) Introducing the report (02:10) Jagged frontier capabilities (05:29) Formal reasoning progress (12:36) Risks and evaluation science (19:00) Funding evaluation capacity (24:03) Autonomy and de-skilling (31:32) Authenticity and AI companions (41:00) Defense in depth methods (48:34) Loss of control risks (53:16) Where to read report PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing [https://aipodcast.ing] SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://podcast.futureoflife.org [https://podcast.futureoflife.org] Twitter (FLI): https://x.com/FLI_org [https://x.com/FLI_org] Twitter (Gus): https://x.com/gusdocker [https://x.com/gusdocker] LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/future-of-life-institute/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/future-of-life-institute/] YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-rCCy3FQ-GItDimSR9lhzw/ [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-rCCy3FQ-GItDimSR9lhzw/] Apple: https://geo.itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1170991978 [https://geo.itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1170991978] Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2Op1WO3gwVwCrYHg4eoGyP [https://open.spotify.com/show/2Op1WO3gwVwCrYHg4eoGyP]