BONUS: Why we need to be brave and ask the difficult questions with Naomi Fisher

S2 E5 Power, knowledge and language in neurodiversity with Helen Pluckrose

Have you noticed that the way some people talk about neurodiversity has changed? Have you heard that diagnostic language is violent, that neurodivergent people are oppressed by neuronormative standards and that it’s ableist to suggest that it’s preferable to be non-disabled, if that’s an option? Have you noticed strange similarities in the way that disability, race and gender are discussed, and wondered why that might be? Our guest this week is Helen Pluckrose, a social and cultural commentator and co-author of the bestselling book, Cynical Theories: How Activist Scholarship Made Everything about Race, Gender and Identity - and Why This Harms Everybody and she’s here to explain what’s going on from her perspective. In this fascinating interview Helen explains how the dogma of critical social justice theory has spread through disability studies and affects the way that many think about and research neurodiversity. She traces the evolution of these ideas from postmodernism to activist academic circles today - and from there into online conversations. We discuss the kernels of truth which underpin these narratives, and why she thinks that activist scholarship has the potential to do harm. We bring it back to neurodiversity and what this means in real life. Helen has many bold and interesting ideas and we can’t wait to hear what you make of them. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit neurosense.substack.com [https://neurosense.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]

S2 E4 Recognising our responsibility with Alison Flynn

This week’s guest is Dr Alison Flynn, a clinical psychologist who has specialised in working in neurodevelopmental and forensic services. She told us of her strong sense of professional responsibility, particularly when it comes to working with people who have been poorly served by the systems that were supposed to care for them. We talk about the need to have robust discussions about issues such as diagnosis, whilst also recognising the potential implications of such conversations. We discuss the need to ensure that we do not remove the structures which people use to get support before there are other options in place. Alison talks to us about the history of harm from psychology towards neurodivergent people, and how this might shape the way people show up in this space. We cover many topics, including the challenges faced by people trying to navigate systems of support, the school to prison pipeline, the inherent political nature of the work that we do as clinical psychologists, and what it means to be neuroaffirmitive. Alison is a wealth of knowledge and we think you’ll agree this is a lively and interesting discussion. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit neurosense.substack.com [https://neurosense.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]

S2 E3 Autism online with Jon Machnee

This week, we speak to Jonathan Machnee, an autistic computer engineer and independent autism researcher from Canada. Jon got in touch after the response to our episode with Uta Frith because he is particularly interested in the online dynamics around autism and neurodiversity. Jon is the host of Christianity on The Spectrum, a long form podcast where he talks to people about the intersection of Christianity and autism, and many other things besides. In our discussion, Jon reflects on his own relationship with autism, his experiences as part of the autistic self-advocacy community, and what he has learnt from years of ethnographic research into what autistic people say online. Jon has a real clarity of thought and depth of experience. We cover a wide range of topics, including the double empathy problem, the heightened sense of social justice often associated with autism, masking, and the concept of the autism spectrum itself. Do let us know what Jon’s interview brings up for you, and any reflections you would like to share with other listeners. We think this one could be a great conversation starter. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit neurosense.substack.com [https://neurosense.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]

S2 E2 Why lived experience expertise needs checks and balances with Dan Lovesey

Dan Lovesey is an autistic researcher, academic and creative who is part of the disability and inclusion team at The University of Law, UK. He has recently completed his PhD and has written a book about neurodiversity and the creative industries, Creative Minds, Divergent Paths. Dan got in touch with us because he was concerned about the lack of balance he saw in conversations about neurodiversity. He felt that lived experience expertise was being presented in some cases as if it applied to everyone and thought that this had the potential to do harm. In this frank conversation, Dan explained why he thinks that lived experience expertise isn’t treated in the same way as academic or clinical expertise, and how this can lead to ideas not being adequately tested or challenged. He says there’s a difference between being an autistic expert, and an expert in autism, and that it’s crucial that we make that distinction. Enjoy the show. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit neurosense.substack.com [https://neurosense.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]

S2 E1 Blaming children's brains for the failings of the school system with Chris Bagley

Dr Chris Bagley is a psychologist, teacher, writer and musician with an interest in the evolution of ideas, educational transformation and systems change. He is Director of Research at social enterprise, States of Mind [https://www.statesofmind.org/], Co-Director at Square Peg [https://www.teamsquarepeg.co.uk/] CIC and a Tutor at The Institute of Education, University College London. I (Naomi) first met Chris several years ago, as we were both critiquing the education system and trying to imagine ways that education could be different. I was immediately struck by how clearly Chris sees the problems in the school system and how it (doesn’t) work for the most marginalised young people. He is always thinking about the effect of education on the children who are labelled the failures - who could also be seen as those whom school has failed. In this in-depth and wide-ranging interview, Chris tells us about being a psychologist in the school system, and how he feels that it pathologises the young people who don’t fit its requirements. He explains how the medical model and our model of education interact to protect each other. Children’s distress about school is labelled and treated as a medical problem, meaning that we don’t ask important questions about whether our education system is really fit for purpose. His first book, States of Mind, written with Bea Herbert, was recently published and is available from all good booksellers. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit neurosense.substack.com [https://neurosense.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]