Chip Conley: The Modern Elder: The Wisdom of Not Knowing Yet

Jennifer Petriglieri - The Couple at the Centre: Jennifer Petriglieri on the Unit of Analysis We've Been Missing

In this week’s 4-Quarter Lives Podcast, Avivah Wittenberg-Cox is joined by Jennifer Petriglieri, Professor of Organisational Behaviour at INSEAD Business School and author of Couples That Work, to explore how longer lives are reshaping modern coupledom, careers, and power dynamics inside relationships. Jennifer argues that living and working longer removes the pressure to “have it all at once” and replaces it with a need to sequence ambitions across a lifetime. For couples, this means the old idea of a fixed deal or settled marriage no longer holds. What works in your 30s rarely works in your 50s or 60s. Instead, she introduces the idea of a more fluid marriage, one that adapts as careers, caregiving roles, and personal identities evolve. The conversation digs into why midlife has become such a critical inflection point. Empty nesting, career ceilings, and shifting energy levels often collide at the same moment. Jennifer explains why women in particular are driving the rise in midlife divorce, not because relationships are broken, but because being “supported” is not the same as being seen and celebrated. They explore the hidden role of power in couples, how it is shaped by thousands of small decisions over time rather than money alone, and why resentment builds when desire and agency go unspoken. Jennifer also maps her three major transitions in dual-career couples onto four-quarter lives, showing how reinvention now repeats several times as careers stretch into later decades. Looking ahead, Jennifer shares practical tools for navigating mobility, retirement, and reinvention together, from simple decision exercises to small daily practices that build connection. She closes by reimagining the future of coupledom, calling for relational literacy to be taught early, normalized often, and practiced intentionally throughout longer lives. Jennifer Petriglieri is Professor of Organizational Behavior at INSEAD and a leading expert on dual-career couples, leadership, and identity at work. Her research focuses on how professionals navigate ambition, relationships, and power over long careers. She is the author of Couples That Work, a widely cited book on modern coupledom and career sustainability. Jennifer teaches globally, advises organizations on leadership and talent, and is a frequent speaker on how longer lives are changing the way we work and love. Useful Links: * Jennifer’s Website: https://www.jpetriglieri.com [https://www.jpetriglieri.com] * Book: Couples That Work: https://www.jpetriglieri.com/books/ [https://www.jpetriglieri.com/books/] * Jennifer Petriglieri on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jpetriglieri/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jpetriglieri/] * INSEAD: https://www.insead.edu [https://www.insead.edu] Get full access to 4-Quarter Lives | Elderberries at elderberries.substack.com/subscribe [https://elderberries.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_4]

Michael Fossat: After the Ladder: Schneider Electric Builds Career Architecture for the 21st Century

In this week’s 4-Quarter Lives, we republish Avivah Wittenberg-Cox’s conversation with Michael Fossat, head of Schneider Electric’s Future Ready program and Director of HR at Schneider Electric France. With a 180-year history, Schneider is now focused on assisting and driving the energy transition to an electric and digital future. Yet this 150,000 strong company discovered that employees over the age of 50 (what Avivah calls Q3) weren’t as motivated and engaged as the rest. Schneider determined to fix that, especially given the talent wars they feel pressing on their business needs every day. The Future Ready Program is their response. Michael Fossat has worked at Schneider for much of his professional career. Passionate about sustainable business and people’s central role in achieving it, he joined Schneider Electric in France as an HR apprentice in an industrial department, participated in the creation of HR shared services for the entire group and worked in the R&D division, before moving to Barcelona to create the HR Metrics function globally. Returning to Paris he was successively HR VP for one of the business units, HR head of Central and Eastern Europe and HR leader for European plants and distribution centres. He is currently Head of HR for Schneider Electric France. Since 2021 he has also headed up the Future Ready Program, bringing to the role a wide knowledge of what motivates people across the group. RELEVANT LINKS * Schneider Electric [https://www.se.com/ww/en/] website * Schneider Electric – Company Purpose [https://www.se.com/ww/en/about-us/company-purpose/] * Schneider Electric Senior Talent Program white paper [https://urlr.me/yThSL] * https://www.kornferry.com/content/dam/kornferry/docs/pdfs/KF-Future-of-Work-Talent-Crunch-Report.pdf [https://www.kornferry.com/content/dam/kornferry/docs/pdfs/KF-Future-of-Work-Talent-Crunch-Report.pdf] * https://www.aarpinternational.org/ [https://www.aarpinternational.org/] * Articles by Avivah on other Corporate Initiatives: Unilever [https://www.forbes.com/sites/avivahwittenbergcox/2021/05/23/flexibility-for-all--unilevers-vision-of-the-future-of-work/?sh=380a73ac75c6] and Aviva [https://www.forbes.com/sites/avivahwittenbergcox/2020/10/28/your-car-gets-an-annual-check-up-what-about-your-life/?sh=7cdd9fce813c] Get full access to 4-Quarter Lives | Elderberries at elderberries.substack.com/subscribe [https://elderberries.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_4]

Michael Fossat: After the Ladder: Schneider Electric Builds Career Architecture for the 21st Century

In this week’s 4-Quarter Lives, we republish Avivah Wittenberg-Cox’s conversation with Michael Fossat, head of Schneider Electric’s Future Ready program and Director of HR at Schneider Electric France. With a 180-year history, Schneider is now focused on assisting and driving the energy transition to an electric and digital future. Yet this 150,000 strong company discovered that employees over the age of 50 (what Avivah calls Q3) weren’t as motivated and engaged as the rest. Schneider determined to fix that, especially given the talent wars they feel pressing on their business needs every day. The Future Ready Program is their response. Michael Fossat has worked at Schneider for much of his professional career. Passionate about sustainable business and people’s central role in achieving it, he joined Schneider Electric in France as an HR apprentice in an industrial department, participated in the creation of HR shared services for the entire group and worked in the R&D division, before moving to Barcelona to create the HR Metrics function globally. Returning to Paris he was successively HR VP for one of the business units, HR head of Central and Eastern Europe and HR leader for European plants and distribution centres. He is currently Head of HR for Schneider Electric France. Since 2021 he has also headed up the Future Ready Program, bringing to the role a wide knowledge of what motivates people across the group. RELEVANT LINKS * Schneider Electric [https://www.se.com/ww/en/] website * Schneider Electric – Company Purpose [https://www.se.com/ww/en/about-us/company-purpose/] * Schneider Electric Senior Talent Program white paper [https://urlr.me/yThSL] * https://www.kornferry.com/content/dam/kornferry/docs/pdfs/KF-Future-of-Work-Talent-Crunch-Report.pdf [https://www.kornferry.com/content/dam/kornferry/docs/pdfs/KF-Future-of-Work-Talent-Crunch-Report.pdf] * https://www.aarpinternational.org/ [https://www.aarpinternational.org/] * Articles by Avivah on other Corporate Initiatives: Unilever [https://www.forbes.com/sites/avivahwittenbergcox/2021/05/23/flexibility-for-all--unilevers-vision-of-the-future-of-work/?sh=380a73ac75c6] and Aviv [https://www.forbes.com/sites/avivahwittenbergcox/2020/10/28/your-car-gets-an-annual-check-up-what-about-your-life/?sh=7cdd9fce813c] Get full access to 4-Quarter Lives | Elderberries at elderberries.substack.com/subscribe [https://elderberries.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_4]

Helen Tupper: The Squiggly Career: Amazing If on Reinvention, Retention and the Leap

In this episode of 4-Quarter Lives, we re-visit a conversation between Avivah Wittenberg-Cox and Helen Tupper, Chief Executive of Amazing If, a company redefining careers for individuals and companies. Together they explore the intricacies of career transitions during midlife and how organizations can support these changes. The conversation also delves into personal experience, highlighting the essential balance between work and life. Helen Tupper is co-founder and CEO of Amazing If, a company with an ambition to make careers better for everyone. Together with her business partner Sarah Ellis, she is the author of three books: The Squiggly Career, You Coach You and, most recently, Learn Like a Lobster: Confidence boosting tools to help you get unstuck at work and reignite your career. Sarah and Helen are also hosts of the podcast Squiggly Careers which has had 4m downloads and their TED talk, The best career isn’t always a straight line [https://www.ted.com/talks/sarah_ellis_and_helen_tupper_the_best_career_path_isn_t_always_a_straight_line], has been watched by almost 2m people. In 2023 Helen was awarded a place on EYs International Winning Women programme. Prior to founding Amazing If, Helen held leadership roles for Microsoft, Virgin and BP and was awarded the FT & 30% Club’s Women in Leadership MBA Scholarship. Some Useful Links: * Amazing If website [http://www.amazingif.com]. * Book: The Squiggly Career [https://www.amazingif.com/books/], by Helen Tupper and Sarah Ellis * Book: Learn Like a Lobster [https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=Helen+tupper&crid=129DZNEGM61Y5&sprefix=helen+tupper,aps,147&ref=nb_sb_noss_1], by Helen Tupper and Sarah Ellis * The Squiggly Careers podcast [https://www.amazingif.com/listen/]. * Helen Tupper’s LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/helentupper/] Get full access to 4-Quarter Lives | Elderberries at elderberries.substack.com/subscribe [https://elderberries.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_4]

Alistair McQueen: The Midlife MOT: How Aviva Made Purpose a Business Lever

This week we revisit a conversation between Avivah Wittenberg-Cox and Alistair McQueen, Head of Savings and Retirement at Aviva, the UK’s largest general insurance company and a major life and pensions provider. Aviva also has a significant presence in Canada and Ireland. Alistair leads Aviva’s pensions business, helping six million people save for and live in retirement, as well as representing Aviva in the media and with government. He is also a member of the Association of British Insurers’ retirement working group; the Money and Pensions Service long-term savings challenge group; the Department for Work & Pensions Mid-life-MOT board; the Business in the Community Age Leadership Team; and sits on the advisory board of Bravestarts – a social enterprise with the goal of supporting a fuller working life. Some Useful Links: * Aviva – How Long will Retirement Be? [https://www.aviva.co.uk/retirement/retirement-planning/how-long-will-retirement-be/] * Aviva Mid-Life MOT app. [https://www.aviva.co.uk/retirement/tools/mid-life-mot-app/] * UK Government Mid-Life MOT [https://www.yourpension.gov.uk/mid-life-mot/] * Brave Starts – new opportunities [https://www.bravestarts.com] for over 45s. Get full access to 4-Quarter Lives | Elderberries at elderberries.substack.com/subscribe [https://elderberries.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_4]