009 Kass - From MTL to Top Gun

014 Adrian Butler - How Top Gun Legends Won Worlds in Year 1

From opening two gyms in two years to building a first-year Worlds champion, Adrian Butler takes us inside one of the most talked-about seasons in cheerleading. In this episode, we break down the rise of Top Gun Legends — how the athletes bought into the vision, the pressure of carrying the Top Gun name, and the tiny routine changes that helped shape their Worlds-winning run. Adrian also shares his philosophy on coaching, athlete development, routine construction, musicality, and why creating emotion matters just as much as difficulty. From building culture inside the gym to creating moments that make crowds erupt, this conversation goes far beyond the scoresheet. We also watch and analyze routines together, including the evolution of the Legends routine from early season to Worlds Finals, and talk about what truly makes a routine memorable. Takeaways * Leadership and Trust * Creating Memorable Moments Emotional Connection * Artistic Expression Chapters * 00:00 The Rise of Top Gun Legends * 13:32 Inception of Top Gun Legends Routine * 34:08 The Art of Emotional Connection in Music * 40:06 Strategic Music Changes and Surprises * 47:45 Strategic Team Development and Progression * 53:39 Building a Culture of Excellence and Value * 01:01:33 Trends in Cheerleading and Skill Development

013 Kyle - Building Winning Routine Across the Globe

From teaching himself backflips in his backyard in rural Iowa… to choreographing Worlds-level routines across the globe, Kyle Spirit FX has become one of the most influential voices in competitive cheerleading. In this episode, we dive into what it actually takes to build winning routines in different countries, across different score sheets, and for completely different team cultures. From South America’s explosive growth in cheerleading, to adapting choreography for Open, United, and ICU score sheets, Kyle breaks down the strategy behind routines that don’t just score well… but leave an impact. We also react to some unforgettable Worlds performances, including the viral Chilean routine that had everyone talking, and discuss why creativity, pacing, participation, and performance matter more than ever in modern cheerleading. This conversation goes far beyond choreography. It’s about leadership, integrity, global growth in the sport, and understanding what really makes a routine memorable. Because cheerleading is more than counts. Takeaways TAKEAWAYS * How Kyle went from a small-town athlete to building a global choreography company * Why South American cheerleading is growing so quickly * The differences between ICU, Open, and United score sheets * How score sheets influence routine construction * Why themes either completely work… or completely miss * The importance of full-team participation in modern choreography * How international teams are pushing creativity in the sport * What separates a good routine from a winning one * Why integrity and relationships matter in the choreography world Chapters * 00:00 From Backyard Tumbler to Global Choreographer * 08:02 Building Routines Across Different Score Sheets * 16:59 Why South America Is Changing Cheerleading * 22:46 The Reality of Non-Tumble Divisions * 30:22 Themes, Creativity & What Actually Wins * 40:33 Advice for the Next Generation of Choreographers

012 High School Cheer Rules - Explained with Coach K

This week on More Than Counts, I sit down with Coach K, the creator behind High School Cheer Rules, to break down one of the most misunderstood parts of cheerleading: legality. From viral stunt videos to hidden deductions that can completely change rankings, we talk about how high school cheer rules actually work, why different competitions sometimes interpret rules differently, and how coaches can better protect their teams from costly mistakes. We also dive into the differences between high school, All-Star, and ICU-style cheerleading, how rules evolve over time, and why some programs seem “ahead of the curve” when new skills become legal. Along the way, Coach K shares her journey from high school coach to one of the internet’s go-to voices for legality education. And of course, we end the episode the More Than Counts way: by reviewing a listener-submitted routine and discussing what makes it effective beyond just the skills. Because cheerleading is more than counts. It’s strategy, safety, creativity, and understanding why the rules exist in the first place. TAKEAWAYS * Why legality deductions happen more often than coaches think * The biggest differences between high school and All-Star cheer rules * How rule interpretations can vary between competitions * Why understanding the “why” behind the rules matters * How elite programs prepare for future rule changes * What makes a routine feel clean, strategic, and intentional CHAPTERS 00:00 – Meet Coach K & the world of High School Cheer Rules 08:15 – Why high school legality is more complicated than people realize 21:59 – Breaking down common stunt deductions 29:06 – All-Star vs. school cheer: what changes? 34:43 – The future of cheer rules & skill progression 42:30 – Listener routine review and feedback

011 Leon - How Australia Does Cheer Differently… and Still Wins

What if everything you think you know about cheerleading… depends on where you are in the world? In this episode, I sit down with Leon to unpack what cheer looks like in Australia—and why it’s so different from what we see in North America. From the way programs are built, to how dance and cheer are deeply connected, to coaches taking on choreography themselves… this is a completely different system. And yet—it works! We talk about what it actually takes to grow a sport in a country where there’s no traditional pathway, how teams prepare for international competitions like Summit on a completely different season timeline, and what it means to build athletes not just for routines—but for life. This episode is a reminder that there isn’t just one way to do cheerleading. And sometimes, doing it differently is exactly what leads to success. Takeaways * Cheerleading growth in Australia * Choreography and coaching in cheerleading Mental preparation for competitions * Collaboration and support in the cheerleading community Chapters * 00:00 The Growth of Cheerleading in Australia * 14:10 Preparing for Competition * 20:22 Routine Elements and Impact * 28:55 Looking Ahead to 2026

010 Dahlston Delgado - The Mind Behind Your Favourite NCA Routines

What does it actually take to build a routine that wins—and one that people remember? In this episode, I sit down with Dahlston Delgado—the choreographer behind 13 routines at NCA this year, and creative forces shaping cheerleading both on and off the competition floor. We break down his process from the very first skills check to the final performance—how he builds structure, layers movement, and makes decisions that balance the score sheet with the audience experience. We also get into the differences between college and all-star choreography, what changes when you’re building for NCA vs UCA, and how his work on Stumble and Broadway has shifted the way he sees routine design. Plus, we watch and analyze real routines—including one submitted by a listener—and talk through what works, what could be elevated, and how small decisions create big impact. This conversation is a deep dive into the strategy, creativity, and emotion behind elite routines—and a reminder that the best performances don’t just score well… they make you feel something. Chapters * 00:00 The Journey to Choreography * 08:10 The Impact of TV on Choreography * 19:23 Choreographing for Texas Tech Large Co-ed * 24:44 Choreographing for Mississippi State All Girl * 48:34 Analyzing a Listener's Routine