Ep. 151 – How Mark Homer Buys & Sells Agencies Without a Pile of Cash

Ep. 151 – How Mark Homer Buys & Sells Agencies Without a Pile of Cash

Featuring: Mark Homer, Grandin Holdings In episode 151, I sit down with Mark Homer, founder of Grandin Holdings and a serial technology and marketing entrepreneur who's scaled and exited multiple agencies over more than 30 years at the intersection of marketing and tech. Mark and I demystify the world of M&A for agency owners — the headspace blockages, the myths about needing piles of cash, and the surprisingly creative ways deals actually get structured. We talk through his own exit in the legal marketing space, why your network is your richest source of deal flow, and how building real systems (including handing off sales) is what makes a business both sellable and worth keeping. If you've ever assumed M&A is too expensive, too complex, or only for the people making headlines, this conversation will change how you think. Mark shows that most deals are quiet, creative, and life-changing in ways that have nothing to do with a Forbes cover. Key Bytes • Buying out a partner is an M&A transaction — most owners have already done a deal without realizing it. • Your network is a bigger source of deal flow than any sourcing system; just tell people what you're looking for. • A lot of owners want to sell for reasons that have nothing to do with how your business is running. • Building systems and handing off sales is what makes a business both sellable and worth keeping. • Optionality means a profitable, well-run business you can sell — or happily hold onto. • Removing discount factors like client concentration and founder-led sales is how you capture maximum value. • Most deals are creative structures with little cash down, not the headline-grabbing windfalls everyone trumpets. • Time at your desk never equaled success — and now that everyone's virtual, the numbers are all that matter. Chapters 00:00 Welcome and Mark's M&A journey 01:34 Why buying out a partner is already an M&A deal 03:48 Inside Mark's legal marketing agency exit 05:30 Two LOIs and how the deals took shape 07:00 Your network is your real source of deal flow 10:45 Why owners sell for reasons that surprise you 11:25 Handing off sales by building a real process 15:38 Optionality: building a business you can sell or keep 19:51 Demystifying the mindset walls around M&A 22:19 Creative deal structures and the acqui-hire 27:10 Rapid-fire questions and closing thoughts Mark Homer is a Serial Technologist and Marketing Entrepreneur. He scaled and exited two agencies. On top of my agency experience, I have been at the intersection of marketing and technology for over 30 years. I was fortunate enough to be a consultant at IBM in 1995 when this little thing called the “World Wide Web” was starting out. This put me on projects building not just basic websites, but full online applications connecting to back-end systems for some of the largest brands. From there, my career included running R&D for a VC-backed company in San Francisco, Product Marketing Manager for a software company(with an exit), to helping start a company that upended the event-based marketing industry by introducing technology that helped drive people from live events to online properties that has now become an industry standard. I also wrote a couple of books along the way. The last agency I sold was in the Legal Marketing industry. Contact Mark on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/markhomer/], his HoldCo [http://grandinholdings.com] website, or his agency [http://refinelabs.com]

How Steve Guberman Built, Sold, and Reinvented His Agency — Season 4 Kickoff

Featuring Guest Host: Todd Giannattasio, Tresnic Media In episode 150, I flipped the mic. To kick off Season 4, I handed the host chair to my friend Todd Giannattasio of Tresnic Media — a returning guest from episode 10, and the guy who helped me name Agency Outsight in the first place. This one's more personal than most. Todd walks me through my journey from screw-off art kid to graphic designer to accidental agency owner, the acquisition that should have been the first of many, selling my agency, and the grief that ultimately reshaped how I think about purpose, work, and what a business is really for. We get into the asset mindset, programmatic M&A as a growth lever, why most founders pay themselves last (and shouldn't), and the copycat goals that keep agency owners chasing someone else's dream. If you've ever wondered what's actually on the other side of an exit — or whether you're building a business or just a really demanding job — this is the conversation. Key Bytes • Most agency founders accidentally build a job, not an asset — and the difference shows up the day you try to sell. • Programmatic M&A unlocks exponential growth that organic effort simply can't match. • Buying talent is faster, safer, and more predictable than hiring it. • You don't need a truckload of cash to acquire — SBA loans, earnouts, and seller financing make deals possible at almost any size. • Paying yourself last isn't noble — it's a habit that quietly devalues the business you built. • Copycat revenue goals pull founders into chasing numbers that mean nothing to their actual life. • Grief, burnout, and life events have a way of forcing the clarity most founders avoid. • Creative empathy — not tactics — is still the most underrated edge agency owners have. Chapters 00:00 Flipping the mic: why Todd is interviewing me 02:47 From screw-off art kid to graphic designer 05:30 Starting the agency with ego and no business plan 08:25 The acquisition I should have repeated four times 11:00 Selling the agency and what came after 14:30 Grief, COVID, and finding purpose in the garden 17:10 Launching Agency Outsight and pricing it on instinct 21:40 The asset mindset: building enterprise value 26:00 Programmatic M&A as the real growth lever 30:15 Why founders pay themselves last (and shouldn't) 33:00 Copycat goals and chasing someone else's dream 36:00 Rapid-fire questions and closing thoughts Steve Guberman is the founder of Agency Outsight and the host of Agency Bytes, the podcast for agency owners who want real conversations about building, growing, and eventually selling the business they've worked so hard to create. A former agency founder who successfully exited his own firm, Steve now coaches creative, marketing, and digital leaders through the challenges of growth, positioning, and the complex decisions that come with scaling or selling an agency. As both a coach and M&A advisor, he helps owners see what truly drives long-term value — financially and personally — and through Agency Bytes, he brings that same lens to every conversation, pulling honest stories and hard-won lessons from the agency world's most respected leaders. Todd Giannattasio is the founder of Tresnic Media, where he helps brands grow online through systems built on what he calls Helpful and Humanized marketing — a combination of fundamental principles and modern strategy that's earned him features in Entrepreneur, Forbes, and Huffington Post. A veteran marketer with more than two decades in digital communications, Todd has worked with brands ranging from Universal Records and BASF to growing startups and small businesses, giving him a rare perspective on what actually moves the needle at every stage of growth. Certified through DigitalMarketer, HubSpot, and the Jordan Belfort Straight Line Sales and Persuasion System, he's also a sought-after speaker at top events for entrepreneurs and innovators across the country — and a longtime friend of the show, returning to Agency Bytes to flip the mic and interview Steve for this Season 4 kickoff. Contact Todd on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/toddgiannattasio/] or his website [https://tresnicmedia.com/].

Ep 149 – David Wain-Heapy, Prodigi – Remote-Ready Agencies Win: Systems Before Scale

Featuring: David Wain-Heapy, Prodigi In episode 149, I sit down with David Wain-Heapy, founder of Prodigy, a company that helps agencies and digital businesses build flexible, scalable remote teams through global talent sourcing. David spent 14 years building and running a Magento-focused e-commerce agency out of central London before selling it to Brave Bison PLC. We talk through what that exit process actually looked like, why the right acquirer matters as much as the right offer, and how building systems independent of the founders made the transition possible. From there, we get into the real substance of what David does now: helping agencies shift from an outsourcing mindset to an offshore hiring mindset. There's a difference, and it matters. Agency owners will come away with a clearer framework for when and how to integrate global talent, how to think about time zones, which roles translate well offshore, and what AI is actually doing — and not yet doing — to development teams in agencies right now. Key Bytes • Outsourcing and offshore hiring are not the same thing — one is a handoff, the other is a hire. • The fix for a failed first attempt wasn't better talent, it was better integration — sprints, tools, and cadence. • Building a business that runs independently of you isn't just good leadership, it's what makes you acquirable. • The right acquirer matters as much as the right offer — alignment on team and culture is what made a six-month handoff possible. • East Coast agencies fit well with Eastern European talent; West Coast agencies are better served by South and Central America. • AI handles contained tasks well, but it still can't hold the context of an enterprise-scale project. • The people who will thrive in an AI-augmented world are the ones who bring real creativity — the architects and problem-solvers, not just the executors. Chapters 00:00 Why this conversation matters for agency owners right now 01:45 David's 14-year agency journey and building in a competitive London market 05:10 The first attempt at offshore talent and why it failed 08:30 Selling to Brave Bison: what the exit process actually looked like 13:15 Choosing the right acquirer and making a clean handoff 17:00 Outsourcing vs. offshore hiring: why the mindset shift changes everything 21:30 How to think about time zones when sourcing global talent 24:45 What systems agencies need before hiring offshore 28:00 Where AI is actually helping agency dev teams right now 33:20 Which roles work well offshore and which don't 37:50 Rapid fire: surfing in Bristol, letting go of control, and a risky bet that paid off David Wain-Heapy is an experienced founder currently focused on building remote teams for digital businesses with Prodigi. Having sold my digital agency to Brave Bison PLC, I am now working to provide a flexible and scalable solution that enables companies to take control of hiring by looking at a global talent pool. I have many years experience building globally distributed teams of digital professionals and leading them to help great businesses win in the race for attention and accelerate their digital growth. Contact David on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-wain-heapy/] or the Prodigi website [http://www.prodigi.team/].

Ep 148 – Cameron Herold, COO Alliance – Work On the Business: The COO Mindset Agencies Need Now

Featuring: Cameron Herold, COO Alliance In episode 148, I sit down with Cameron Herold, founder of COO Alliance and one of the most recognized voices in operational leadership, to talk about the mindset shift agency owners desperately need right now: stepping into the role of CEO and building a true COO mindset inside their business. Cameron has helped scale companies like 1-800-GOT-JUNK and advised hundreds of growth-stage businesses, and in this conversation, we unpack what it really means to work on the business instead of being trapped inside it. We talk about the operator’s lens, how founders accidentally become bottlenecks, and why operational maturity is often the difference between a lifestyle business and a scalable asset. If you’re an agency owner who feels stretched thin, stuck in delivery, or unsure how to elevate your leadership team, this one is a masterclass in stepping up and leveling up. Key Bytes • The CEO’s job is vision. The COO’s job is execution. Most agency owners are trying to do both — and burning out. • Operational discipline isn’t about bureaucracy — it’s about freeing the founder from the day-to-day. • If you’re still the glue holding everything together, you don’t have a scalable business — you have a dependency. • Working on the business requires intentional systems, delegation maturity, and the courage to step back. • Strong operators build companies that can grow, sell, or run without the founder in the weeds. Chapters 00:00 Welcome & Cameron’s Scaling Background 04:12 The Difference Between a Founder and a CEO 09:48 Why Most Agencies Don’t Truly Work “On” the Business 16:35 The COO Mindset Explained 23:10 Founders as Bottlenecks 31:42 Building Operational Discipline Without Red Tape 40:18 Hiring & Developing Strong Operators 49:03 Scaling vs. Lifestyle Businesses 57:25 Final Advice for Agency Owners Cameron Herold is the mastermind behind the exponential growth of hundreds of companies globally. Founder of the COO Alliance and Invest In Your Leaders training. Cameron is known as the "CEO Whisperer" and is also the former COO of 1-800-GOT-JUNK?, where he engineered the company's spectacular growth from $2 million to $106 million in revenue in just six years. The publisher of Forbes magazine, Rich Karlgaard, stated, "Cameron Herold is the best speaker I've ever heard...he hits grand slams”. Cameron is the host of the Second In Command podcast, author of 6 bestselling books, including The Second In Command, Vivid Vision, Meetings Suck, Free PR, Double Double, and The Miracle Morning for Entrepreneurs. Cameron is a top-rated international speaker and has been paid to speak in 26 countries and on all 7 continents, including Antarctica in early 2022. Contact Cameron: www.cooalliance.com www.cameronherold.com https://www.instagram.com/cameron_herold_cooalliance https://www.facebook.com/COOAlliance/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/cameronherold https://www.linkedin.com/company/coo-alliance/ https://twitter.com/cooalliance https://www.youtube.com/@CameronHerold?sub_confirmation=1 https://cooalliance.com/vivid-vision/

Ep 147 – Amy Hood, Hoodzpah Design – Make the Work You Want: The Proactive Path to Better Clients

Featuring: Amy Hood, Hoodzpah Design In episode 147, I sit down with Amy Hood, designer and co-founder of Hoodzpah Design, the Southern California brand identity studio behind work for Disney, Nike, Netflix, Target, and the Lakers. Amy and her twin sister Jen built Hoodzpah out of necessity after realizing they were “unhireable on paper,” and turned it into a nimble, right-sized studio that’s intentionally stayed small to protect speed, momentum, and creative quality. We talk about why “make the work you want to get” is still the most reliable path to better clients, how relationships compound when you lead with curiosity (not strategy), and why creatives have to treat marketing as part of the job if they want opportunities to find them. Amy also shares the story behind Hoodspa’s Adobe MAX banner plane stunt (“No more broke creatives”), what they learned from taking a big marketing swing, and how they’re shifting from service work into products like their updated book Freelance, and Business, and Stuff and the Fort font subscription app. Key Bytes • Making the work you want to get is still the fastest way to change the caliber of clients you attract. • Staying small on purpose can be a growth strategy — speed and momentum beat bureaucracy. • If you don’t share your work, people can’t refer you because there’s no proof you exist. • Spectacle marketing works when it’s aligned, intentional, and captures attention in a sea of noise. • Diversifying income through products creates longevity — especially when your body can’t grind forever. Chapters 00:00 Welcome + who Amy Hood is 01:05 Hoodzpah’s origin: “unhireable on paper” to studio owners 02:59 Twin partnership: dividing roles and avoiding scorekeeping 08:41 Staying small on purpose (and why bigger can be slower) 11:18 Landing better clients by making the work you want 18:03 Dream clients + putting your hat in the ring 21:00 Adobe MAX banner plane: “No more broke creatives” 28:40 From service to product: book, fonts, and Fort app 31:48 Font licensing fear and why clients are gun-shy 38:44 Rapid fire: resets, creative myths, and boundaries Amy Hood is a designer and co-founder of Hoodzpah, Inc, a brand identity studio in Southern California that has worked with companies like Disney, 20th Century, Nike, The Lakers, Target, and Netflix. Amy's logo and identity work centers around custom lettering solutions. She is the font designer behind Palm Canyon Drive, Beale, and Beverly Drive. When she's not stress-watching Laker games, Amy can be found at the beach, plein-air doodling, and practicing her Smashball backhand. She co-authored the book “Freelance, and Business, and Stuff: A Guide for Creatives” (and its related online course) with her sister Jennifer, based on the Professional Practices class they taught at Laguna College of Art & Design. Contact Amy, grab their book, or fonts all on the Hoodzpah website [https://www.hoodzpahdesign.com], Instagram [https://instagram.com/hoodzpahdesign], or YouTube [https://youtube.com/hoodzpah] channels.