Ahrefs Podcast

AI Overviews are changing search — but not in the way Google wants you to think. In this episode of the Ahrefs Podcast, Tim Soulo sits down with Kevin Indig to discuss the real impact of AI on search behavior, website traffic, and SEO strategy. Kevin analyzed over 5 billion search visits and found that while people are searching more often, they’re spending less time per session — and zero-click searches are on the rise. But this isn’t just about traffic. Kevin argues that SEO isn’t dying — it’s just entering a new investment cycle. The smartest companies are already shifting resources toward AI visibility, building tools, and rethinking how they show up in ChatGPT and beyond. In this episode: (00:00) Intro (02:39) How is search changing? (06:20) Revenue vs traffic (10:30) How AI Overviews are changing (13:46) Join Kevin at Ahrefs Evolve (14:23) How to show up in AI Overviews (and is it even useful?) (20:10) AI Overview volatility (26:02) Queries vs prompts (31:11) External validation: the key to ranking on AI Overviews (35:13) Is SEO dead? (42:50) Ranking in AI Overviews vs ChatGPT (49:18) What you should be optimizing with AI (01:05:42) Vibe coding in action (01:07:21) Outro We hope you enjoyed this episode of the Ahrefs Podcast! Be sure to like, subscribe — and tell a friend. Where to find Kevin: LinkedIn: Kevin Indig X: @Kevin_Indig Website: mkt1.co Where to find Tim: LinkedIn: Tim Soulo X: @timsoulo Website: timsoulo.com Referenced in this episode 👤 People Dmitry Gerasimenko Ryan Law Rand Fishkin Eric Siu 🏢 Companies & Brands Ahrefs Google OpenAI Similarweb ChatGPT Ramp 🛠️ Tools / Platforms Claude Humata AI AirOps v0 by Vercel Cursor Relevance AI 📚 Frameworks & Concepts AI Overviews (Google SGE) Vibe Coding Zero-Click Searches First Mover Advantage Information Gain (SEO Strategy) #SEO #GoogleAI #AIOverviews #AhrefsPodcast #KevinIndig #SearchMarketing #DigitalMarketing #AIContent #LLMSearch #ZeroClickSearches #ContentStrategy #AIinMarketing #VibeCoding #MarketingAutomation #aiseo

Emily Kramer (Founder of MKT1 and the Dear Marketers podcast) has led marketing teams at Asana, Carta, and Astro (acquired by Slack). After working in-house, she became an advisor, consulting with B2B startup founders on marketing approaches across growth stages, audiences, and GTM motions. She’s seen it all. We chatted about positioning fundamentals, product vs. content marketing, the growing founder-influencer trend, and her personally coined Fuel and Engine Framework that identifies which part of a broken marketing machine needs fixing. In this episode: (00:00) Intro (01:38) How Will AI Change Startup Marketing and Advising? (07:53) The First Steps to Startup Marketing (14:56) Join Emily at Ahrefs Evolve (15:35) The 12 Marketing Advantages Framework (16:43) Getting Your Messaging and Positioning Right (22:40) The Fuel and Engine Framework (28:59) The 30% Juice Rule for Startups (DEBUNKED) (34:57) The Difference Between Product Marketing and Content Marketing (40:11) Examples of Ultra-Successful Campaigns & Measuring the ROI (49:13) Category Creation vs Roles (51:28) The Rise of Ecosystem Marketing (59:34) Is SEO Dying? (01:01:21) Founders as Influencers (01:07:57) The Shortcut to Building Brand Influence (01:14:10) Outro We hope you enjoyed this episode of the Ahrefs Podcast! As always, be sure to like, subscribe, and tell a friend. — Where to find Emily: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emilykramer/ Website: https://www.mkt1.co/ Where to find Tim: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/ X: https://x.com/timsoulo Website: https://www.timsoulo.com/ — Referenced in this episode: 👤 People: Dave Fallarme – https://www.linkedin.com/in/dfallarme/ April Dunford – https://aprildunford.com/ Dustin Moskovitz – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dustin_Moskovitz Ryan Law – https://www.linkedin.com/in/thinkingslow/ Dmitry Gerasimenko – https://www.linkedin.com/in/dmytrogerasymenko/ 🏢 Companies & Brands: Owner – https://owner.com/ Carta – https://carta.com/ Airbnb – https://www.airbnb.com/ Clay – https://www.clay.com/ Asana – https://asana.com/ Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/ Twitter – https://twitter.com/ Substack – https://substack.com/ 🛠️ Tools / Platforms: ChatGPT – https://chat.openai.com/ LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/ Reddit – https://www.reddit.com/ TikTok – https://www.tiktok.com/ Google – https://www.google.com/ 📚 Frameworks & Concepts: Fuel & Engine Framework – https://mkt1.substack.com/p/fuel-engine Marketing Advantages – https://newsletter.mkt1.co/p/find-and-accelerate-your-marketing Percent Juice Rule – https://newsletter.mkt1.co/p/high-impact-content Category Creation vs Design – https://www.aprildunford.com/post/dont-let-customers-decide-what-your-product-is Ecosystem Marketing – https://newsletter.mkt1.co/p/ecosystem-marketing Business Potential – https://blog.timsoulo.com/business-potential-the-most-important-metric-in-content-marketing/ 🌐 Other: Hashtag Angels – https://www.hashtagangels.com/ — #StartupMarketing #MarketingStrategy #EmilyKramer #Ahrefs #B2BMarketing #ContentMarketing #FuelAndEngine #EcosystemMarketing #PersonalBrand #MKT1

Tim Soulo posted on LinkedIn asking if anyone wanted the full breakdown of the publishing process behind Ahrefs’ AI-written articles that actually ranked. Over 400 people commented “do it.” This episode is the result. Ryan Law, Director of Content Marketing at Ahrefs, walks Tim through the entire AI content workflow he built — from crafting detailed briefs to editing hallucinated links. It’s not a “push-button” prompt. It’s a repeatable system that combines ChatGPT with real editorial oversight. And the results are nearly indistinguishable from human-written content. You’ll hear how Ryan builds outlines, adds expert-level insight, handles internal linking, and avoids the usual AI traps. If you’re serious about using AI in your content strategy — and not just experimenting — this is the episode to watch. LinkedIn post: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/timsoulo_we-built-a-10-step-process-to-create-ai-generated-activity-7348327597769953283-mpQW In this episode: (00:00) Why We Made This Episode (01:03) How We Know This Workflow Works (02:05) The Basic Setup in ChatGPT (Foundational Instruction Files) (05:45) Setting up the Content Brief (14:19) Join Ryan at Ahrefs Evolve (16:03) Generating a Solid Outline (19:36) Improving AI Output (27:05) The Importance of Human Review (29:33) Polishing the Formatting (30:43) A Closer Look at the 7 Foundational Documents (44:01) Outro ––– Where to find Ryan: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thinkingslow/ X: @thinking_slow Website: https://ryanlaw.me/ Where to find Tim: LinkedIn: (https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/) X: @timsoulo Website: https://www.timsoulo.com/ ––– Referenced in this episode 👤 People Ryan Law https://www.linkedin.com/in/thinkingslow/ Andrej Karpathy https://karpathy.ai/ Barbara Minto https://barbaraminto.com/ Gary Provost https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Provost Patrick Stox https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickstox/ ⸻ 🏢 Companies & Brands Ahrefs https://ahrefs.com/ Google https://www.google.com/ Tesla https://www.tesla.com/ McKinsey & Company https://www.mckinsey.com/ ⸻ 🛠️ Tools / Platforms ChatGPT https://chat.openai.com/ WordPress https://wordpress.org/ Claude https://www.anthropic.com/product/claude Replit https://replit.com/ Google Docs https://docs.google.com/ LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/ GitHub https://github.com/ ⸻ 📚 Frameworks & Concepts PAS Formula (Problem–Agitate–Solution) https://beomniscient.com/blog/pas-copywriting/ MECE Principle (Mutually Exclusive, Collectively Exhaustive) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MECE_principle Pyramid Principle https://www.amazon.fr/Pyramid-Principle-Logic-Writing-Thinking/dp/0273710516 Information Gain (SEO & Content Strategy) https://www.clearscope.io/blog/information-gain-seo ––– #AIContent #ContentMarketing #SEOStrategy #ChatGPT #Ahrefs #AIWorkflow #ContentCreation #DigitalMarketing #AIforSEO #AhrefsPodcast

Is your marketing stuck in “competent” mode? In a world where AI can generate endless content, being good isn’t good enough anymore. In this episode, Tim Soulo sits down with best-selling author and marketing futurist Mark Schaefer to unpack why most marketing feels flat — and how to fix it. Drawing from his book Audacious, Mark makes the case for out-humaning the machines: creating content that’s emotional, unexpected, and deeply memorable. You’ll learn: * Why the real threat to your brand isn’t AI — it’s being boring * How concepts like the handicap principle and pratfall effect make content feel more real * What a $1,500 pig can teach you about word-of-mouth marketing * Why Liquid Death isn’t selling water — they’re selling marketing * How to measure the ROI of audacity in a spreadsheet-driven world If your brand is playing it safe, this conversation will push you to think bigger, bolder, and more human. Chapters: (00:00) Intro (03:06) The Concept of Audacious Marketing (08:52) How to Out-Human the Machines (11:39) Join Ahrefs Evolve (12:18) Using AI in Marketing (21:12) How a $1500 Pig Became a Marketing Sensation (30:47) Breaking Bad Rules for Good Reasons (37:12) Creating Awe to Break the Pandemic of Dull (48:31) Using Controversy and Stunts to Create Awareness (55:28) How Liquid Death Disrupted a Boring Industry Through Marketing (01:05:15) Buying a Product vs Buying a Brand (01:13:27) Measuring the Impact of Audacious Marketing (01:21:01) Outro Where to find Mark: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisclickup/ Website: https://clickup.com/ Where to find Tim: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/ X: https://twitter.com/timsoulo Website: https://www.timsoulo.com/ Referenced in this episode: 👤 People Michael Krivica — https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelkrivica/ Dacher Keltner — https://www.linkedin.com/in/dacherkeltner/ Peter Drucker — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Drucker Philip Kotler — https://www.linkedin.com/in/philipkotler/ Patrick Campbell — https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickccampbell/ Jonah Berger — https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonahberger/ Bill Gates — https://www.linkedin.com/in/billgates/ Mike Cessario (Liquid Death Founder) — https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikecessario/ Stix Nielsen (ex-Liquid Death CMO) — https://www.linkedin.com/in/stixnielsen/ 🏢 Companies & Brands Ahrefs — https://ahrefs.com/ Coca-Cola — https://www.coca-colacompany.com/ Netflix — https://www.netflix.com/ Liquid Death — https://liquiddeath.com/ Pepsi — https://www.pepsico.com/ Powerade — https://www.powerade.com/ Gatorade — https://www.gatorade.com/ Elf Cosmetics — https://www.elfcosmetics.com/ Roblox — https://www.roblox.com/ monday.com — https://monday.com/ ClickUp — https://clickup.com/ Asana — https://asana.com/ BMW — https://www.bmw.com/ Audi — https://www.audi.com/ Mercedes — https://www.mercedes-benz.com/ ProfitWell — https://www.profitwell.com/ Mischief Agency — https://www.mischiefusa.com/ Taboo — https://www.taboo.com.au/ 📚 Books Audacious by Mark Schaefer — https://www.amazon.com/Audacious-Marketing-Humans-Machines-Dominate/dp/1119904791 Contagious: Why Things Catch On by Jonah Berger — https://www.amazon.com/Contagious-Things-Catch-Jonah-Berger/dp/1451686579 Awe: The New Science of Everyday Wonder and How It Can Transform Your Life by Dacher Keltner — https://www.amazon.com/Awe-Science-Everyday-Wonder-Transform/dp/1982172820 📚 Concepts & Frameworks Handicap Principle — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handicap_principle Pratfall Effect — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratfall_effect Social Objects — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_object Collective Effervescence — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_effervescence Four P’s of Marketing — https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/four-ps-of-marketing.asp 🎬 Events South by Southwest (SXSW) — https://www.sxsw.com/ Ahrefs Evolve Conference — https://ahrefs.com/evolve

Chris Cunningham, founding member of ClickUp, reveals the social media strategy that drives a staggering 150M monthly impressions. This is *the* exact strategy that's also attracted major clients like VaynerMedia (yes, GaryVee literally found them through social media). Grab your notes. 📝 Chris shares his contrarian take on hooks and pattern interrupts, explains why hiring LA actors is a no-brainer for your social content, and walks us through his secret Trial Reels technique that consistently multiplies video performance. In this episode: (00:00) The Power of Humor in B2B Marketing (00:57) Measuring ROI in Social Media Strategies (05:10) How Much Does It Cost to Create This Type of Content? (07:32) Finding and Hiring Talent for Content Creation (12:57) Integrating Humor with Project Management Software (17:25) The Creative Process: From Ideas to Execution (18:40) Using Trial Reels to Test Impact(21:08) Brainstorming Creative Ideas(24:02) Balancing Fun and Product Promotion (29:17) Breaking Marketing Norms (33:30) The ABCD Framework for Content Creation (38:33) Pattern Interrupt Techniques in Content (43:18) Psychological Hacks for Converting Followers (46:24) Building a Personal Brand Vs a Company Brand (50:39) Types of Content for Brand Accounts (53:44) Defining the ClickUp Brand (57:10) The $15K ClickUp Album (01:02:01) Influencer Marketing Strategies (01:04:50) The Super Bowl Ad Experience (01:07:35) AI in Marketing: A Critical Perspective (01:11:54) Outro We hope you enjoyed this episode of Ahrefs Podcast! As always, be sure to like and subscribe (and tell a friend). ⸻ Where to find Chris: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisclickup/ X: @ChrisClickUp Website: https://clickup.com/ Where to find Tim: LinkedIn: (https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/) X: @timsoulo Website: https://www.timsoulo.com/ ⸻ Referenced in this episode: 👤 People Gary Vaynerchuk (GaryVee): https://www.linkedin.com/in/garyvaynerchuk/ Kyle Coleman (ClickUp CMO): https://www.linkedin.com/in/kylecoleman/ Adam Robinson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamsrobinson/ Gaurav Agarwal (ClickUp COO): https://www.linkedin.com/in/gaurav-agarwal-8278271/ Zeb Evans (ClickUp Founder/CEO): https://www.linkedin.com/in/zeb-evans/ Seth Godin: https://www.sethgodin.com/ Mr. Beast:  ⁨@MrBeast⁩  [https://studio.youtube.com/channel/UCX6OQ3DkcsbYNE6H8uQQuVA] Clever (Artist): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clever_(rapper) ⸻ 🏢 Companies & Brands VaynerMedia: https://vaynerx.com/ Adweek (Adworld): https://www.adweek.com/ Groundlings: https://www.groundlings.com/ Copy AI: https://www.copy.ai/ Clari: https://www.clari.com/ BuzzFeed: https://www.buzzfeed.com/ Halligan Cinema: https://halligancinema.com/ HubSpot: https://www.hubspot.com/ Asana: https://asana.com/ Jira: https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira Wendy’s: https://www.wendys.com/ Apple: https://www.apple.com/ Windows (Microsoft): https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows Morning Brew: https://www.morningbrew.com/ ⸻ 🛠️ Tools / Platforms TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/ Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/ Spotify: https://www.spotify.com/ Apple Music: https://www.apple.com/apple-music/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/ Claude (Anthropic AI): https://www.anthropic.com/news/claude-3-family ChatGPT (OpenAI): https://chat.openai.com/ Clay (Lead gen / enrichment): https://www.clay.com/