Ep. #10, Data Modeling Matters Most with Toby Mao

Ep. #12, Agent Orchestration at Scale with Maxime Beauchemin

On episode 12 of Data Renegades, CL Kao sits down with Maxime Beauchemin to explore what happens when software teams start working alongside armies of AI agents. Max shares the thinking behind Agor, his collaborative platform for orchestrating coding agents, and reflects on how AI is reshaping engineering, product, design, and data work. They also dive into the future of agentic workflows, technical collaboration, and what human roles may look like in the years ahead.

Ep. #11, Contrarian Bets and AI Skepticism with Michael Stonebraker

On episode 11 of Data Renegades, CL Kao sits down with Michael Stonebraker, legendary database pioneer and creator of Ingres and Postgres. They explore the origins of modern relational databases, why specialized systems outperform one-size-fits-all platforms, and what today’s AI hype gets wrong about enterprise data. Stonebraker also shares hard-earned lessons on startups, research, and staying relevant over five decades in tech.

Ep. #10, Data Modeling Matters Most with Toby Mao

On episode 10 of Data Renegades, CL Kao and Dori Wilson sit down with Toby Mao. They explore how real-world data problems at Netflix and Airbnb led to the creation of SQLGlot and SQLMesh, and why data modeling remains the hardest challenge in data engineering. The conversation also dives into how AI is reshaping engineering workflows, without replacing the need for strong architectural thinking.

Ep. #9, Radical Accountability in Software with Wes McKinney

On episode 9 of Data Renegades, CL Kao and Dori Wilson sit down with Wes McKinney, creator of Pandas and co-creator of Apache Arrow. They explore how AI coding agents are reshaping software development, why data infrastructure remains surprisingly resistant to automation, and what semantic layers mean for the future of analytics. Wes also shares bold predictions about “radical accountability” in software and the changing bar for startups.

Ep. #8, One Human Plus Agents with Scott Breitenother

On episode 8 of Data Renegades, CL Kao and Dori Wilson sit down with Scott Breitenother to explore how AI is reshaping the modern data stack and redefining the role of data teams. They discuss the evolution from spreadsheets to autonomous agents, the realities of data democratization, and why future workflows may revolve around one human working alongside multiple AI assistants. The conversation blends practical lessons from building Brooklyn Data and Kilo Code with forward-looking predictions about the next wave of data tooling.