Property Management Growth with DoorGrow

DGS 318: The Hidden Thief in Your Property Management Business

How often are you interrupted in your property management business? Tenant and owner phone calls, emails, maintenance requests, team member questions… it's an endless cycle of wasted time and stolen profits. In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull discuss the hidden thief in every property management business: the Interruption Burglar. You'll Learn [01:23] The Burglar Stealing From Your Business [07:41] Becoming Aware of Your Company's Time Loss [13:20] If Your Business Isn't Growing, It is Dying Quotables "There's a burglar that lives inside everybody's business." "One interruption is going to cost you somewhere between 15 minutes and 30 minutes of wasted labor." "All it takes is questions to make you conscious of things you're unconscious of currently." Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind [https://www.doorgrowacademy.com/courses/mastermind] DoorGrow Academy [https://www.doorgrowacademy.com/] DoorGrow on YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC1mGYT2Sw0LOe32hO_QdNg/featured] DoorGrowClub [https://doorgrow.com/] DoorGrowLive [https://doorgrowlive.com/] Transcript Jason Hull (00:00) Nobody can even see this guy running around stealing until we do some of these exercises with our clients. And then they start to become conscious and they can now see this interruption burglar sneaking around, stealing money, stealing profits, wasting everybody's time. Welcome everybody. We are Jason and Sarah Hull the owners of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we have spoken to thousands of property management business owners, coached, consulted, and cleaned up hundreds of businesses, helping them add doors. improve pricing, increase profit, simplify operations, and we run the leading property management mastermind with more video testimonials and reviews than any other coach or consultant in the industry. We are the best in the world. And at DoorGrow, we believe that good property managers can change the world and that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to relationships, real estate deals, and residual income. And our mission at DoorGrow. is to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now, let's get into the show. All right, so today, Sarah and I thought we would chat about, she said, you've been wanting to talk about this for a little while. So we're going to be chatting about what? Interruption. All right, specifically, the interruption burglar. So maybe I'm dating myself a little bit, but I don't know if you remember the Hamburglar. I do. McDonald's, okay, all right, that's good. so for those of you listening, maybe you remember like McDonald's had the Hamburglar and he was this sneaky, creepy guy going around stealing people's cheeseburgers, right? And there's another burglar. There's a burglar that lives inside everybody's business. and it's the interruption burglar. And the interruption burglar is stealing your money by interrupting. And so every interruption in a business is a hidden thief stealing from your business. And most business owners give a blank check out to every tenant and owner that they bring on that says, call me whenever you want to, interrupt me whenever you want to, steal all my profits. And a lot of property managers think they have to talk to everybody and that's what they're paid to do. And so they have to always be available. So we're going to kind of throw a wrench into that sort of level of thinking because we've talked to lot of clients get out of the trap of lacking profit, lacking margin by helping them escape or eliminate or tear up this blank check and eliminate the interruption burglar, or at least put some guardrails around that guy. so according to Gary Keller's book, The One Thing, it cites a study saying that one interruption costs 18 minutes of productivity. Dan Martel's book about time management says I think it's like 26 minutes of productivity. So I don't know if we're just that much worse when we get interrupted now. But basically One interruption is going to cost you somewhere between 15 minutes and 30 minutes of wasted labor. Why? Because when we get interrupted, if we're in the flow or we're working on things and we're being productive as a team member or as a CEO or COO or whatever our role is, we get interrupted. We then have to rebuild that house of cards that we were in the middle of working on, figure out where was I, what was I working on, you know, kind of reestablish our thinking, get back into the groove of what we were trying to accomplish, what we were working on, especially when we're trying to get into deep work where things get really productive and effective. And so one interruption, if it happens every 20 minutes or so, which in a property management business is not hard to do, you may find you feel like you're just spinning your wheels or your team members are working and busy all day long, but they're not actually producing a whole lot of output. And so this can be very expensive in a property management business. Not only that, but usually a lot of times the interruptions are internal. So you ever heard of sneaker net? Like somebody walks into your office, it's the most inefficient network ever, and then you're like, hey, do you got a minute? Or I have this question, and maybe you're the person they're all coming to ask questions to because you're the boss, and they're interrupting you all the time. And so then you're like, well, getting interrupted. And now you've got two people. One's interrupting the other and you're wasting a lot of labor. And then we set up scenarios in which one person has the ability to interrupt multiple people in the business. This is where we set up Slack channels and other stupid communication methodologies that people think is more productive, where there's one too many communication, which becomes one too many interruptions. So one interruption, instead of costing you like maybe 15, 20 minutes of labor or a half hour of labor, It can quadruple. It can be 10 people at a time. It can be really expensive. And then, you know, sometimes, you know, one's interrupting the other. So you've got it's doubling. You know, people are just wasting your time and money. And so it's really easy for you to lose all of your profits and all your margins to staff through interruptions and a lack of productivity. And we see people get stuck at small door counts on a per person basis. They're like, I can only manage 50 units by myself, or a property manager with a whole team, I can only manage 100 units. And a lot of people think, well, that's pretty good, but it's not. Sarah managed 265 at her peak, basically by herself. Eventually had one part-time person. I had one part-time person. Yeah, eventually. was part-time, but between us we You weren't even a full-time equivalent. Yeah, and that's because you had eliminated a lot of interruptions because you just didn't want to deal with them. And you set really good boundaries. Well, yeah, which was to not be interrupted. Yeah. So cool. So that's the interruption burglar. This is one of the things we help clients figure out. We help them figure out how do we eliminate the interruptions? How do we create better, healthier, more effective communication systems Sometimes your clients do this. Sometimes your team members do it. Yeah. We've got to be able to separate ourselves where we can and reduce or completely eliminate interruptions. Yeah. That's the goal. So we have methodologies that we take our clients through to, one, identify their own interruptions, the things that are interrupting them. And then we have a process for taking their team through a process so that they become conscious of the interruptions so that they can, everybody in the business can start to protect the business from this interruption burglar because interruption burglar, sneaky. Nobody can even see this guy running around stealing until we do some of these exercises with our clients. And then they start to become conscious and they can now see this interruption burglar sneaking around, stealing money, stealing profits, wasting everybody's time. And nobody likes the interruptions anyway. So by reducing them, everybody's happier. Even the people that are interrupting you, like tenants and owners are happier and less anxious. If you set better guardrails, better expectations, better boundaries, they actually can trust you more to do the job instead of feeling like they need to micromanage the person that's managing their rental property, which is ridiculous. Why don't they just cut you out if they're going to micromanage something, right? So yeah, they don't need to do that. Okay. I don't know what else we need to say about this, but. Well, one of the things that I had created recently within the last two months was a time optimization assessment that you can go through and take and you can do it every day. Kind of get a grade and a score and see what went well and what didn't go so well and then it will help you figure out what can you optimize and what can you change and You can do that even Right now so if you would like to get access to that it's a longer link So it's not like I can just give you the URL to it So I would say the easiest way to get it if you would like access to it is just email me and Sarah doorgrow.com s-a-r-a-h at doorgrow.com So if you'd like that I would be very happy to send you the link and you can use that as long as you would like but you'll essentially go through answer a couple of questions and then it will email you your results and your score so it will tell you overall you know what were the things that didn't go so well and Oftentimes when you're filling a report out like this at the end of the day It just makes you very conscious of it because sometimes our days tend to get away from us and they wonder then at the end of the day, man, how did that happen? I didn't get to that thing that I really wanted to do. Man, I was busy all day long, but I just don't feel like I was very productive or I don't feel like I got to the things that I wanted to get to. Well, this will help you while you're answering these questions. It'll just point to a few things that you can optimize. And sometimes I've tested this out with our clients a few times too. go, ⁓ as they're taking this assessment and just answering the questions, they're going, well, I can already tell what kind of day this was. This was not good. This was not good. This was not good. And then the good news is just by taking that assessment, you have a better idea of how to approach things and hopefully a better plan for the following day. Sometimes all it takes is questions to make you conscious of things you're unconscious of currently. And when we're unconscious of the interruption burglar, he gets away with murder. Like he's just stealing your money. So we've got to stop that guy. All right. So we've got a sponsor. So let me share that with everybody real quick. We appreciate our sponsors. So our sponsor today is Blanket. And Blanket is a property retention and growth platform that helps property managers stop losing doors, add more revenue and increase the number of properties they manage. Wow, your clients with a branded investor dashboard and an off market marketplace, while your team gets all the tools they need to identify owners at risk of churning and powerful systems to help you add more doors. And so it helps you retain the doors, even if your clients sell or leave. You can keep the the units, it's really a cool system. I recommend everybody uses it. And we coach and recommend our clients use it. I think it's a great system. So. For sure. All right. I think also we had just had our clients go through a time optimization challenge. We did. Using some of the things that we talk about in the program, some of the components that we coach on and some of the things that you will see in that time optimization assessment. Not all of the things, but. Some of the things in the assessment are on there and then of course there's a lot more. So what we've noticed and what a lot of people had noticed when they went through that assessment and that challenge is, wow, there is a lot of time in the business that just gets eaten up by different things and it's not hard at all to get lost. It's not hard to kind of get consumed by the day to day. It's not hard to get lost in all of the tasks that are required by a property management company. And this really goes for you and it goes for your team. Because just looking at every person's time on the team can be really, really helpful. One person might be wildly efficient. And if that person that's efficient is, let's say, the business owner, the business owner might. assume then, well, everybody on my team is really efficient because I'm really efficient. And that may not be the case. So our goal is to help you figure out, you know, who is efficient and who is using their time wisely and perhaps who is not. So that way we can figure out what are the things that we can shift? What are the things that we can change? And oftentimes it's not even really hard to change. you know what you're doing or how you're doing it. It is different and it can sometimes feel uncomfortable because you just have to do things differently. And I think in the world of property management and especially how things are running today is everyone assumes that you need to just be responding to everything immediately and be on top of everything and be super communicative with everybody. That's not always the case. That may not get you the best results. So it can create a lot of work. But being busy and being productive are two very different things. So it's our goal always to help property managers figure out what can I do to actually be more productive? And how can I make sure that somebody on the team is always having time to focus on the income generating activities? Because if you are not focusing on growth in the business, it is slowly dying. So if there's no one who's focused on growth or if there's one person who's just a little bit, it's like, well, I do it for, you know, five hours a week when I can. And when I'm not busy doing all of these other things, what's happening is we just get stuck on this hamster wheel where it's kind of like Groundhog Day. You wake up. You do things, you make no progress. You think, I'll do it again tomorrow. You wake up, you do a whole bunch of things, you're busy, but you're not making progress. And then that day just repeats over and over and over. So we're just spending all of our time doing all of these things that aren't actually helping the business grow or helping the business make progress. You're just doing the day-to-day tasks and then it's really hard to grow because sometimes it gets scary to grow. And they go, well, if I'm this busy at 40 units, there's no way I can handle 80. There's no way I can handle 150. There's no way I can handle 500. And if you're running the 500 units the same way you're running the 40 units, the answer is yes, there's no way you can do it. So you need to just look at doing it a different way. Yeah. Yeah, you need to start running your business the way you would at a thousand doors when you have a small amount of doors because it's going to be completely different. And a lot of people, when they first start out, think they need to please everybody, take care of everybody in a special way, and they don't set healthy boundaries. They take on too difficult a clients. They make a lot of mistakes. So by optimizing your time and our goal with our clients isn't just to make you more productive. Our goal with clients is to make sure as a business owner that you are more fulfilled, that you're enjoying your day more. It's not just about being able to somehow accomplish and do more work. The goal really is for you to do more of the things you enjoy and less of the things that you don't enjoy. And so usually for most business owners, that very first exit you need to do in the business is to exit doing the frontline work. If you can make it past that, everything gets a lot easier, it's a lot nicer. But when you're doing frontline work, or when you have an entire team, but they're asking you questions on how to always do or make decisions about the frontline work, you're not out of the frontline work. And so you got to exit the frontline work, then you got to exit managing everybody. And then you got to, the next step is then you're like a CEO or you're a leader and you might want to go to some higher levels of exit, but. A lot of people can't escape the frontline work. They can't figure out how to do that. So they just sell the whole business. They jump all the way to the last exit. They're like, let's go. I need freedom. And then they go start another business and they kind of paint themselves into a corner again and they're miserable. So there's a very simple path that we can take clients through to help them get that freedom. And so if you feel like you're frustrated and you're asking this question all the time, like, why won't my team? just think for themselves. It's because you've built the wrong business. The business is not built around you. The business is built around the business, which means you are now the servant to the business instead of the reverse. And so you built the wrong business, which means you also built the wrong team and you can't see it. Sometimes it takes some outside perspective to get perspective so that you can see it. And that's one of the things we enjoy helping our clients figure out. Sometimes replacing their entire team. And yeah, if you've if you're not enjoying your day to day role and you have an entire team, you built the wrong team because you built it around the wrong person. You're showing up wearing hats and doing things in the business that you shouldn't be doing because you're not the best at this. You're not somebody that enjoys it. And I guarantee if there's certain hats or roles you're wearing or holding on to right now that you don't enjoy, somebody else out there would be better at it than you. And I know that's humbling to think in the beginning. It's a very humbling thing to see, a team member and see them perform better than you, outperform you. But ultimately smart business owners know that you want to build a team of people that are better at the stuff you don't enjoy. Because if you don't enjoy it, you're never going to be great at it. We've got a lot of tactics. We've got a lot of methodologies. There's a lot of little things we could share about that. but in interest of time, if you're interested, Sarah's already offered very generously her cool assessment. Send an email to Sarah with an H at doorgrow.com. It's got to the H otherwise I don't get it. If you spell my name wrong then you don't make the top of it. Wow, okay, yeah. No patience for that. right. Cool. All right. Well, if you've ever felt stuck or stagnant, you want to take your property management business to the next level, reach out to us. You can check us out at doorgrow.com. For a free training on how to get unlimited free leads, text the word LEADS to 512-648-4608. And we will send you a hour long training that shows you how to get unlimited leads for free in your property management business. That will blow your mind. Also join our free Facebook community just for property management business owners at doorgrowclub.com And if you'd like to get the best ideas in property management, join our newsletter at doorgrow.com slash subscribe. And if you found this even a little bit helpful, don't forget to subscribe And until next time, remember the slowest path to growth is to do it alone. So let's grow together. Bye everyone.

DGS 317: Battlefield to Boardroom: How to Build Tax-Free Wealth

As a property management business owner, you likely work with seasoned investors who are always looking for new ways to build and preserve their wealth and assets. In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with Alan Porter to discuss how to reveal the powerful financial strategies the wealthy and large financial institutions use and how you can apply them. You'll Learn [01:09] Alan's Inspiration for Uncovering Financial Secrets [08:38] Learning Financial Planning Strategies 90% of People Don't Know [12:25] How to Get Started on the Path to Tax-Free Retirement [15:43] Strategies For Property Managers and Their Clients Quotables "The one thing you can always trust is for everybody to look out for their own self-interest." "If your own self-interest is in alignment with their interests, then that's a win-win. Otherwise, someone's gonna lose." "If you don't have a plan, make one. But you've got to have a plan and improve on it all the time." Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind [https://www.doorgrowacademy.com/courses/mastermind] DoorGrow Academy [https://www.doorgrowacademy.com/] DoorGrow on YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC1mGYT2Sw0LOe32hO_QdNg/featured] DoorGrowClub [https://doorgrow.com/] DoorGrowLive [https://doorgrowlive.com/] Transcript Alan Porter (00:00) I teach people to think outside the box, conventional financial planning, and show them the strategies that the wealthy and banking institutions have been using for years. Now, I show people how to become their own bank. Jason Hull (00:10) All right, welcome everybody. I am Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. We have spoken to thousands of property management business owners, coached, consulted, cleaned up hundreds of businesses. Alan Porter (00:26) Thank Jason Hull (00:35) helping them add doors, improve pricing, increase profit, simplify operations. And we run the leading property management mastermind in the industry. At DoorGrow, we believe good property managers can change the world and that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. We are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry. eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now, let's get into the show. So my guest today is Alan Porter of Strategic Wealth Strategies. Welcome, Alan. Alan Porter (01:16) Well, thank you for having me on. Jason Hull (01:18) Yeah, glad to have you. And we're going to be talking about, he's going to be sharing how to reveal the powerful financial strategies, the wealthy use, how you can apply them to. Alan will be uncovering the IRS approved playbook for retiring completely tax free, explain the millionaire tax strategies business owners use to keep more of what they earn and break down Wall Street myths to show how to build lasting wealth without market volatility. So Alan. Again, welcome to the show and why don't we kick things off by give us a little bit of background on you. How did you get into entrepreneurism, into business and give us a little bit of backstory so we understand how this all came to be. Alan Porter (02:00) Well, I never thought I'd be doing this. I retired from the military back in 1993. I was a Blackhawk instructor pilot and I told everybody I had a safe landing for every takeoff and I dodged all the bullets and I had a great career. And I got enrolled in the real estate mortgage business after that up till about 2008. I've had some tragic things happen to my family. In 2009, live in Little, mean Fayetteville, North Carolina. My son lived in Little Rock, Arkansas with his wife, Lynn. She was 39 and they had two little girls that were seven and four. Jason Hull (02:19) in 2009. Alan Porter (02:28) Well, we went down there for Christmas in 2009, but my son had been 100 % disabled for three years and still not getting the disability. And January 5th changed my entire life. His wife, Lynn, called me up. said, Alan, I've been diagnosed with stage four pancreatic cancer and they've given me six months to live. Of course we were all devastated, but there's a huge financial problem that's developed in my son's family because there's no money coming in. Jason Hull (02:28) Well, we went down there for business in 2009, but my son had been 100 % disabled for three years and still not in a disability. Wow. And January 5th changed my entire life. His wife Lynn called me up, she said, Alan, I've been diagnosed with stage 4 pancreatic cancer and they've given me six months to live. Of course, we were all devastated. Yeah, I bet. there's huge financial problem that's developed in my son's family because of the money coming in. Alan Porter (02:55) I'm helping them out, but I don't know for how long Jason Hull (02:55) I'm helping him out, but I don't help him. Alan Porter (02:56) until I'm gonna have to sell my house or do something. But I was like 99 % of the people out there, Jason, that thought life insurance was a death product that you had to die to benefit from it. Well, little did I know she had a terminal illness right or her life insurance policy that she could access within one year of diagnosis of this deadly disease and was completely tax free, which I knew nothing about. It was hundreds of thousands of dollars. Jason Hull (02:58) Yeah. Really? Alan Porter (03:21) And if it had not been for that, my son would be bankrupt and it took a huge financial strain off of me. Jason Hull (03:25) Yeah. Well, long story short, died a year later, so I moved my son back here to Fayetteville, North Carolina. But about a year after that, my daughter's an oncology nurse, and her husband's a doctor at Woodbrook and Raleigh, North Carolina, and just gave birth to my third grandson. And she was diagnosed with breast cancer, and it was very bad. We didn't think she was going to live. Well, now in 2023, she's been 12 years cancer free, but she also was diagnosed with Graves' disease, thyroid eye condition. Alan Porter (03:26) Well, to a long story short, she died a year later. So I moved my son back here to Fayetteville, North Carolina. But about a year after that, my daughter, who's an oncology nurse and her husband's a doctor, they live up in Raleigh, North Carolina, had just given birth to my third grandson. And she was diagnosed with breast cancer and it was very bad. We didn't think she was going to live. Well, now in 2023, she'd been 12 years cancer free, but she also was diagnosed with Graves disease and thyroid eye condition. There's only one treatment for it. It's not a cure-all for anything, but Jason Hull (03:51) And there's only one treatment for it. It's not a cure-all. Alan Porter (03:55) it's a treatment. It's an infusion, eight infusions of this drug is called Tepezza I believe. The first one was like $32,000. The last one was almost a quarter of a million dollars. That was in May of 2023. On January of 2024, the thyroid eye condition came back. In February, she went to the doctor. The doctor said, Nicole, I'm sorry, there's nothing we can do until you go blind and then we can operate. I'm thinking, man, what a prognosis. Jason Hull (03:55) my Yeah. ⁓ Alan Porter (04:21) So we tried to get her a study at Duke. She didn't qualify for that because she had already taken the Tepezza But April did get her into the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota. But basically there's nothing they can do for her. She was up there for about four days for testing and consultation. But basically, like I said, there's nothing they can do for her. They got a drug that may be 50 % effective. It's not improved by insurance. And believe it or not, it's even more expensive than the Tepezza is. And it's just, I mean, so. Jason Hull (04:39) Yeah. Yeah. Alan Porter (04:51) So both of my kids are living day to day in misery. And when I got started in this, knew, like I said, these things, because I was to have a very successful real estate mortgage business. And I said, these financial strategies that the insurance companies have, why don't people know about this? These are the greatest financial vehicles out there. People tell me, well, listen to Suzy Orman and Dave Ramsey, insurance is not a good investment. Well, first off, it's not an investment. Jason Hull (04:54) When I got started in this, knew, like I said, these things, because I was very successful in estate in my early years. I said, these financial strategies that the insurance companies have, why don't people know about this? These are the greatest financial vehicles out there. People tell me, listen, as soon as you arm it today, Ramsey, insurance is not a good investment. Well, first off, it's not an investment. Alan Porter (05:18) It's an asset class all of its own. There's no other financial product that can Jason Hull (05:19) It's an asset class all of itself. There's no other financial product that... Alan Porter (05:23) provide the protection, performance, and benefits of cash value life insurance when properly structured and fixed and fixed indexed annually. And I'll give you one big point. They eliminate or mitigate the risk in retirement that a stock portfolio only compounds. That's absolutely... Let me ask you this. Have you ever heard of sequence of returns risk? Jason Hull (05:23) could provide the protection, performance, and benefits of cash, money, or life insurance. Yeah. if you have one big point, they eliminate or mitigate the risk in retirement that a stock portfolio only compacts. That's absolutely, let me ask you this, have you ever heard of sequence of returns risk? Sequencing returns? Sequence of returns risk. No. Alan Porter (05:46) Sequence of returns risk. Well, don't feel lonely because 99 % of the people I talk to, to include multi-millionaires that have fee-based advisors. And let's say that you're 65 years of age and you go to retire and you got a million dollars in your stock portfolio. They used to say a 4 % distribution rate was a safe distribution rate to last for 30 years, index for inflation at 3%. Well, my plans go to age 120. They don't cut off in 30 years. Jason Hull (05:50) Well, don't feel lonely because 99 % of the people I talk to include multi-millionaires that have fee-based advisors. let's say that you're 65 years of age and you go to retire. You have a million dollars in your stock portfolio. They used to say a 4 % distribution rate was a safe distribution rate to last for 30 years, index for inflation at 3%. Well, my plans go at age 120. They don't cut off in 30 years. But the problem with that 4 % distribution rate Alan Porter (06:15) But the problem is that 4 % distribution rate, that's Jason Hull (06:19) That's $40,000 a year. And that stock portfolio, that's not guaranteed. What if you have a 10 % loss the first year? now your million dollars goes down to $900,000 minus the $40,000 you took out minus the fees you paid on financial advisor whether you make money or not. And then the next two to three years, 2008 happens again, where you lost 38 to 52%. You never got the money in the fifth year. And when I tell people about this, they're financial advisors, Alan Porter (06:19) $40,000 a year. And that stock portfolio, that's not guaranteed. What if you have a 10 % loss the first year? So now your million dollars goes down to 900,000 minus the $40,000 you took out minus the fees you pay that financial advisor, whether you make money or not. And then the next two to three years, 2008 happens again, where you lost 38 to 52%. You're going to be out of money in the fifth year. And when I tell people about this and their financial advisors, Don't tell them, I mean, they're said, I said, why do you think that is? Jason Hull (06:45) don't tell them. I made letters, I said, why do you think that is? Alan Porter (06:48) It's because they make a fee whether you make money or not. The number one fear in retirement is running out of money before you run out of money. I can eliminate that. Jason Hull (06:49) Because they make a fee, well, if you make money or not. The number one fair return is 20,000 dollars. Yeah, compensation structures are incentive models. And so if their incentive is not to tell you, it's because they're getting paid to not tell you. Well, they're supposed to be fiduciary looking out for their best interest clients. I'm a certified financial financial advisor. Yeah, but regardless, the one thing you can always trust is for everybody to look out for their own self-interest. Oh, you're right there. Alan Porter (06:59) Yeah, exactly right. Well, they're supposed to be fiduciaries looking out for their best interest clients. I'm a certified financial fiduciary. you're right there. Jason Hull (07:18) So if your own self-interest is in alignment with their interests, then that's a win-win. Otherwise, someone's gonna lose. Yeah. It's always the clients. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, well, that's quite the story. how is everybody doing now? Alan Porter (07:26) Yep. And it's always the client. My son looks like he's 85 years old and my daughter's living day to day in pain. Jason Hull (07:43) Yeah, yeah. So you have this burden of trying to figure out how do I take care of them? How do I make sure that, you know, taking care of your kids and, you know, nothing's more stressful emotionally or more motivating for us as a parent than our own kids having it going through a tough time. Yeah. I remember my oldest daughter, she was born with a birth defect that there was a rotation in her gut and she was just always sick, throwing up, stuff like this. Well, she almost died. We didn't know this. got, went and got a scan. Everything was inflamed. They're like, we have to do emergency surgery immediately. And yeah, it was pretty scary as a parent. And they had to like pull her guts out, do surgery, put them back in. And she was a little kid, you know? Now she's my oldest. I mean, she's still my oldest, but now she works for me. and in DoorGrow which is great. But yeah, I remember those times. That's really scary. And I can imagine that's just really a big load on your shoulders. So did this kind of spark you creating the strategic wealth strategies then? Alan Porter (08:30) No. Absolutely, that's my passion for this. I'm very passionate about what I do. It's all about education because people don't know. Jason Hull (08:49) Explain the passion, like what gets you excited about this? Alan Porter (08:53) Well, educating people. That's what I did in the Army. I was an educator. I taught people how to fly. it's just like this, educating people. I teach people to think outside the box, conventional financial planning, and show them the strategies that the wealthy and banking institutions have been using for years. Now, I show people how to become their own bank. I've been doing this for a decade and a half. And why don't everybody doesn't do this? I don't know why. mean, you borrow money from yourself, you pay yourself back compound interest. Jason Hull (09:16) you Alan Porter (09:20) and not the financial institutions and you eliminate the effective interest cost that you pay on the money that you borrow. And people, are you aware of what effective interest cost is? Banks love it. I had a gentleman who wanted to do my debt free for life plan. And I said, well, how much debt do you have? He says, well, we bought a new house a couple of months ago, a couple of car payments, a loan and a credit card. I said, what's the interest rate on your mortgage? He said 2.75. Jason Hull (09:20) Yeah. And people, are you aware? No, what is that? Alan Porter (09:46) I said, what's your effective interest cost on that? He says, well, I don't know what you're talking about, Alan. I said, don't fill it, only most people don't. Fill out my form, we'll do a Zoom conference the following week. I said, you got $461,000 in debt. That's not your problem. The problem is the 49.76 effective interest cost, you're paying on that 2.75 % mortgage. His eyes got real big and he said, Alan, how is that possible? I said, it's not going to get down to the 2.75 until the last couple of months of the mortgage. Jason Hull (10:10) Yeah. ⁓ Alan Porter (10:14) You've got a credit card here that's over 90 % effective interest cost. And even though you've got great credits, your average effective interest cost is over 46%. So my next question to him was, what financial vehicle are you investing in, your 401k or anything else, that gives you a 46 % return on your money? Because 46 cents of every dollar that you pay out goes to compound interest for some financial institution, and that money's gone for you forever. Jason Hull (10:17) and ⁓ Alan Porter (10:38) He said, well, nothing. In fact, I lost 10 % of my 401k. Jason Hull (10:40) Yeah, that'd be hard to find that much. And then my last question was how long does it you to your debts off? I said with my cap three buck of money and a whole lot of insurance policy, 14.17 years past, saving $73,000. And in the 10th year it would be 52 years of bids, and there's over $149,000 in cap Alan Porter (10:43) And then my last question was, how long can it take you to pay your debts off the way you're doing it? I 20 some years. I said, with my tax-free bucket of money and a whole life insurance policy and our software, we're paying all your debts off 14.17 years faster, saving you $73,000 in interest. And in the 10th year, you'll be 52 years of age and there's over $139,000 in a tax-free bucket of money that you can use ⁓ to buy a new car, whatever, college education for your kids. Jason Hull (11:06) you can use uh buy a new car whatever college education for your kids at that point your debt benefits will be $400,000 in tax-free money from the federal bank but think about this you don't have to any more money in this by the time you're 65 there'll be over $400,000 in tax-free money that you can use to supplement your income that does not affect the taxation of social security or the tax and community care part which will be in the thousands per year Alan Porter (11:13) At that point, your debt benefits over $400,000 of tax-free money to protect your family. Think about this. You don't have to put any more money in this. By the time you're 65, there'll be over a quarter of a million dollars in a tax-free bucket of money that you can use to supplement your income that does not affect the taxation of Social Security or the means testing for Medicare Part B, which will be in the thousands per year. You're protected from lawsuits, liens, and judgments, and it eliminates or mitigates all the risk in retirement. This is absolutely great for real estate investors. Jason Hull (11:35) Yeah. Yeah ⁓ Alan Porter (11:42) Because once they build that money up in the cash value of their policy, they can take it, go buy a property, and pay themselves back. I do this all the time. I just bought two new cars in last two years. I pay myself back. I'm going to have tens of thousands of dollars more because I compounded interest for me instead of some financial institution. Jason Hull (12:03) So you said multiple times, like why aren't people doing this? Well maybe you could answer your own question, why aren't people doing this? Alan Porter (12:10) It's lack of education. It ought to be taught in high school, but it's not. I've got college professors with PhD degrees in accounting and finance. They have no idea what I'm talking about. They ask me to teach their classes. Jason Hull (12:20) Yeah, got it. So it was just a lack of education on this. Alan Porter (12:24) That's exactly what it is. Jason Hull (12:25) So, yeah, well, I mean, it sounds like something that everybody should be doing. So how does somebody get started with this or how do they become aware of this or what would you say are the first steps? Alan Porter (12:38) Well, give me a call. I don't charge for my consultation services. That's free. It's an education. I think everybody needs to know these things because it will change their financial future, not only for them, but for their family also and possibly generations to come. at 9-8-5. Jason Hull (12:52) So Alan, it sounds like you've kind of found a passion in this. You really enjoy helping people to be able to figure this out and do this. Alan Porter (13:00) Absolutely. Jason Hull (13:01) So yeah, I think that's noble. I think this is pretty awesome. So for those that are listening to this point, I'm going to read a quick word from our sponsor and then Alan, I'm going have you share your phone number so they can get in touch with you and we can keep talking about it. So this episode is sponsored by KRS Smart Books. So if you're a property manager, are you tired of getting tangled up in numbers? KRS Smart Books has your back. They specialize in property bookkeeping. for small to mid-sized managers who'd rather focus on, well, managing. With over 15 years of experience in real estate accounting, their pros in AppFolio, Yardi, and all the top property management software, trust them to make your monthly reports hassle-free so you can get back to what really matters running your business. Head over to krsbooks.com to book your free discovery call. All right, so Alan, what's the number that they should get? to get in touch with you or to reach you to find out about this. Alan Porter (13:59) You can call me at 910-551-1046, email me at strategicwealth, the number zero at gmail.com. And you can always go to my website, which is www.strategicwealthstrategies.com and you can book appointment there. And I've got a plethora of information on that website. Jason Hull (14:18) What? Great, thanks for sharing. So for those that are listening, some people might listen to this and go, well, that's nice, but Alan probably can only work with people that maybe have a million dollars or that are ultra wealthy or have lots of savings. People will listen to this and say, that's probably not for me. What would you say to that? Alan Porter (14:39) Well, quite frankly, bull I work with everybody. know, I'm for the military. Military people don't make a lot of money. Okay. And I work with them, but I work with regular, regular working people that I mean, I'll give you a perfect example. I asked people, said, why do you contribute to a 401k? They said, well, it's a tax deduction. I said, no, it's a tax compounder. And I thought you don't think tax is going to be higher when you retire. I got another thing coming for you. Jason Hull (14:43) Okay. Right. Alan Porter (15:07) But see, thing is people don't understand. 1 % of people out there don't even think there's a fee in a 401k. A 1 % fee over a 30-year period will reduce your income by one-third. The average fee in a 401k is 2.99%. Now that's by Forbes Magazine and the Laptimes. People have less than two-thirds of their money and then they get hit with taxes anywhere from 20 to over 55%. And they're not prepared for it. They're not prepared for long-term care, which costs right now between $50,000 to $200,000 a year. I can get money for that's tax free for pennies on the dollar. It's just a matter of education. Jason Hull (15:43) So for the property management business owners listening, a lot of them will have sometimes hundreds of clients that are investors and they're wanting to maximize their investments, how would this maybe benefit the property management business owners to be better educated on this and have a strategic partner like you? Alan Porter (16:03) Well, the thing is, you've to have a plan. If you don't have a plan, make one. But you've got to have a plan and improve on it all the time. But it's just like, you know, building up your cash value and borrowing from yourself to buy a property and paying yourself back. That's an absolutely great thing for a real estate investor. And these property managers, I've got health and wellness programs. If you've got employees over 10 employees, understand this. The employer will save anywhere from $500 to $700 a year in FICA taxes. The employee and the employer have 1,100 drugs, prescription drugs, at zero copay. That's 20 to 30 % of healthcare costs. Jason Hull (16:37) Yeah Alan Porter (16:50) I mean, and they also have an accidental indemnity program and that's not for the employer, but they have a revolution health app. They've got the number one telehealth app according to JD Power and associates. It's a plethora of benefits. We have legal club, we have identity shield. It's just all at no net cost to employer and no net cost to the employee. It's the section 125 of the tax program. Jason Hull (17:06) This is all at no net cost reported at no net cost reported. Got it. Got it, interesting. Okay, well cool. Well what else would people generally ask about this or should we make sure that the listeners are aware of related to this? Well, are you... Alan Porter (17:26) Well, are you risk averse? Are you conservative? You know, it's just like when you go to retire and you've got that million dollars in stock portfolio, a 4 % distribution rate, $40,000. If you had a property constructed fixed indexed annuity at, say, age 65, you'd only need approximately $650,000 of that stock portfolio to give you the same $40,000 a year. That's guaranteed for the rest of your life. we're guaranteed. Jason Hull (17:53) New York Heat. ⁓ Alan Porter (17:53) Never to have a loss through the market because we're not tied to the market for our gain. We use indexing strategies and every time that indexing strategy goes up we have increasing income and the older you get the higher the distribution rate is. You can't do that with a stock portfolio. It's not even comparable. Jason Hull (17:59) And every time that index of strategy goes up, we have increasing income. And the older you get, the Yeah, yeah. Well, Alan, I appreciate you coming on to the DoorGrow show and bringing this to light for those listening that are not aware you're doing your purpose of educating. So appreciate that. And to wrap up what final words do you have? And then again, why don't you go and share how people can get in touch with you one more time. Alan Porter (18:31) Okay, well I've got a best-selling book out right now on Amazon. It's called Tax-Free Retirement Solution. Again, Tax-Free, Tax-Free Retirement Solution. Jason Hull (18:38) It's called tax, tax free. Retirement solution, okay. Got it. Alan Porter (18:45) And again, you can call me at 910-551-1046. My email is strategicwealth, the number zero at gmail.com. And you can go to my website, which has a plethora. I've got videos, I've got blogs, I've got everything there. And you can book an appointment there at www.strategicwealthstrategies.com. Jason Hull (18:51) email is strategicwealth0 at gmail.com and you can go to my website which has a cluster. I've got videos, I've got blogs. book an appointment there at www.strategicwellscladagy.com. Awesome. Alan, appreciate you being on the show and thanks for your service. You mentioned your former military. Yeah, I appreciate it. So for those watching, if you've ever felt stuck or stagnant in your property management business, you want to take it to the next level, reach out to us at doorgrow.com. Also be sure to join our free Facebook community, Just for Property Management Business Owners at doorgrowclub.com. Alan Porter (19:13) Well, I appreciate it. Jason Hull (19:31) And if you would like to get the best ideas in property management, join our free newsletter at doorgrow.com slash subscribe. And if you found this even a little bit helpful, don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review. We'd really appreciate it. And until next time, remember the slowest path to growth is to do it alone. So let's grow together. Bye everyone.

DGS 316: Happier Property Managers - Mindset, Mental Health and The Future of PM with Ashleigh Goodchild

Do you enjoy property management? It's often a thankless industry, and it's easy for property management business owners and their team members to become unhappy and burnt out. In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with Ashleigh Goodchild, the voice behind PM Collective, to explore what it really takes to build a property management career that you can enjoy. You'll Learn [01:06] Importance of Having Support [08:01] Community-Led Learning for Property Managers [15:07] Structured Management vs. Random Leadership [21:36] People-Centric Property Management [32:41] Making the Invisible Visible Quotables "There's so much help available out there. And a lot of times we just don't ask as entrepreneurs." "The slowest path to growth is to do it alone." "A lot of people don't actually see what we do. And I think that's where you've got the opportunity." Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind [https://www.doorgrowacademy.com/courses/mastermind] DoorGrow Academy [https://www.doorgrowacademy.com/] DoorGrow on YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC1mGYT2Sw0LOe32hO_QdNg/featured] DoorGrowClub [https://doorgrow.com/] DoorGrowLive [https://doorgrowlive.com/] Transcript Ashleigh Goodchild (00:00) Generally churn rate and loss rate for businesses can range anywhere between 15 and 30%. Our office is sitting at about 5%. we've got 1200 doors, to have that 5 % churn rate actually considered really great. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (00:05) Yeah. Welcome everybody. I am Jason Hull, the owner and founder of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. We've talked to thousands of property managers, helped them add hundreds of doors, help them increase profit, simplify operations, get themselves out of the business more and more. And we believe the good property managers can change the world and that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships and residual income. We are on a mission to transform property management business owners. and their businesses. want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now let's get into the show. So my guest today is Ashleigh Goodchild. Welcome. She's the voice behind PM Collective, the art of property management. together, we're going to explore what it really takes to build a property management career that you can enjoy covering the balance between structured management and random leadership, how to create workplaces people actually want to stay in, and Ashleigh's vision for a more human, less transactional industry. So Ashleigh, welcome to the show. Ashleigh Goodchild (01:35) Thank you so much for having me. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (01:37) So let's give us a little bit of background on you for those that don't know you yet, that maybe you're listening. How did you get into entrepreneurism? How did you get into doing what you're doing now? Give us some of the backstory. Ashleigh Goodchild (01:52) Yeah, so I started real estate back when I was 18 and like many people just falling into it and I was placed into an office that had a business owner, one was an air hostess and one was a pilot and really had no idea of how to run the business. So at that age of 18 and not knowing any better, I just jumped straight into the business and started helping them quite a lot. And then As I went on in my career, I then started my business, SoCo Realty, when I was 23. So I've had that business for 20 years and I've had a very blessed property management and business ownership life. I do say though that when I was 23 and when I started the business, I don't think it would have mattered what I was doing. It wasn't actually about the property management. It was actually probably about business ownership that I was drawn to. And I think I always say, even if I was a hairdresser at 23, it would have been a hairdresser shop that I opened up, just happened to be working in property management. So I've been running that and I've had a very blessed property management life. I always feel a little bit guilty when people talk about the roller coaster of their property management businesses, because I don't feel like I've had that. Or if I have, I sort of feel like maybe I just didn't sweat the small stuff. And so that led me into... Jason Hull - DoorGrow (02:50) Yeah. Yeah. Ashleigh Goodchild (03:10) running and founding PM Collective, which was bringing in a peer-to-peer mentorship and training Australia-wide where we run 200 coffee and conversations every year. And we really support each other in the industry just by that casual learning from each other. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (03:27) That's awesome. So they're getting together, hanging out with each other, sharing ideas, and you're kind of the facilitator in this. Ashleigh Goodchild (03:35) Yeah, we do it Australia wide. have loads of hosts around Australia. So other people like myself who want to give back. So it's a great opportunity for people to give back. We've actually run a couple over in the US as well. And we have just had one in New Zealand. So the idea is that it allows people in the industry who have been in for a long time, like I said, to give back to the industry and help the the younger ones that are coming in to really learn to enjoy the career as well. So it's really great. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (04:04) Yeah, you know, it's amazing how much help is available and how willing people are to help. Yeah, I'm reading a book right now by Simon Squibb, I believe is his name, something like that. And it's it's about like following your dream and having a dream. But he said he created an organization that. I guess over in the UK, but he created this organization that allowed people to either help. fun people's dreams or for people to get their dreams launched. And he said that they had way more people. He thought everybody would be wanting to get the dream and their own dream met. He said they had way more people offering to help those that had a dream. And so, and he was talking about how much help is available. So. There's so much help available out there. And a lot of times we just don't ask as entrepreneurs. know, there's this funny thing that when we start out as an entrepreneur, we've kind of come through this whole world where we're such a minority, because most people on the planet are not entrepreneurial currently. And so we get a lot of feedback that we're weird or that we're different or that we're strange. And so we learn to kind of isolate. We start to recognize, I'm different and there isn't a lot of help or support. which is kind of an inaccurate viewpoint, but we kind of view ourselves as an island. And then we start our journey as an entrepreneur and we usually think we're gonna do it all ourselves. We're gonna read the right books and watch YouTube videos and we wear it as a badge of honor. I'm gonna get this thing started and do it all alone. that's, as I say at the end of my podcast each episode, that's the slowest path to growth is to do it alone. Ashleigh Goodchild (05:40) I think as well, like we find that a lot of people are really great at their jobs. They're either, you know, great property managers, great BDMs, and they have people around them that say, you know, you're so good at what you do, you should go open up your own business. And I don't think people actually realize there is, it can be really hard to start your business. I mean, you've got the logistics side of things, but you just assume the phone's going to keep calling and start calling as soon as you're out on your own. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (06:02) Yeah. Ashleigh Goodchild (06:09) And I think that that's one of the biggest things that I see people underestimate. And so to be able to give them that support and not be forced to sell their business because it's just got too stressful. I've got one of my clients where she had her own property management business when she was in her twenties. And she ended up selling it because it was just too much to handle at that age. She didn't have the support, you know, 10, 15 years ago. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (06:14) Yeah. Yeah. Ashleigh Goodchild (06:36) And I remember her saying, I wish PM Collective was around because I wouldn't have sold my business. But now I can have the stamina for my business because I've got that support around me. So I think that that's where I'm seeing a really big gap. people who think, you know, people who are great at their job, which means that they think they're going to be great at business ownership, which is not always the case as well. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (06:57) Yeah, there's a great book on that exact subject. It's called the E-Myth, the E-Myth Revisited. And in this book, E is entrepreneur, it's entrepreneur myth. And basically the summary of the whole book is if you think you, if you've learned how to do the technician level work, you like you have learned how to bake really great cakes. The myth is that now you think, well, I could go start a business and start a bakery making cakes. But a business involves a lot more. A business involves marketing, sales, accounting, you know, a lot of different stuff that is outside the skill set of baking a cake. And so the same thing with property management. Some people are like, I've managed properties for a while, or I've done business development for a property management company, done sales for a while. And they think I could now go start a business doing this. And that's the technician level work. That's not the business ownership type of stuff. then that's where things get a little more difficult. Yeah. Ashleigh Goodchild (07:57) read that book it's actually a really great one for newbies in the business. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (08:01) Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I love that. So how does the PM collective work? How are you getting people together? How do you facilitate this? What does a typical meetup look like? How do you make these connections? Ashleigh Goodchild (08:13) Yeah, so we very much just have hosts that reach out to us and they see a gap in their location. And then they just give me, they have to give me three dates, times and locations. And I just set them up online for them. So it's relatively easy for the host. Everyone just rocks up. It's very, very casual. They grab their own coffee, they take a seat and the host is there just to sort of welcome everyone and sort of facilitate it to a certain point. We have the groups, they can range anywhere in size between four people to 20 people. And to be honest, even the groups of four, I find are so important because I find that the intimate conversations are so much stronger in those small groups and people really open up. And the conversation could be about anything. It could be about... certain products that we're using. might be about some subscriptions. It might be about what's currently not working, what demos we've had, what problems we've had. And I find in that smaller group, people definitely open up a lot more and get that real, really good support that they need. Sometimes it's we chat on a personal level. Again, that comes down to people that are personally happy, I believe make the best. employees and their best employers. And it's really important that we look after people's personal state and having those personal conversations and those opportunities to vent, think are incredibly important in that environment as well. And then we have a big mixture. So we've got some groups where we get a lot of BDMs come along, some where it's just the solo printers, some where it's the referring partners, they sort of just all find their own vibe. But one of the biggest things that has been really important is that consistency. So knowing the for the public to know that we're going to show up every single month at this location. And we're here if and when you need us. That consistency is really important. So really casual, you don't need to buy a ticket or anything like that. And I think that really what's made them successful though is that consistency. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (10:15) Got it. So is how does the PM collective have the bandwidth to facilitate this? How do you guys make money? How does that work? Ashleigh Goodchild (10:23) So we don't, we sort of run it as a bit of a not-for-profit, even though it's not registered as a not-for-profit. So the purpose is very much community-led learning. And I guess on a personal level, I run my own business, my own real estate business. So for me, that's my bread and butter, and this is really what's considered my passion project. So this is sort of more my legacy, I guess. And, you know, I've got the time and the energy. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (10:27) Okay. Ashleigh Goodchild (10:48) to and the love to do it. So that's what I do. We have got great sponsors who help support our podcast and cover the cost for the membership and things like that. And we've got a membership base, which would be say, I guess on the smaller medium size. And over time that will grow. But for now, the support is really where it's at and we're driven by that with no need. for any strong monetary value coming through at the moment. That might change in 10 years, but for now and the last five years, it's been perfect. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (11:19) Well, mean, it sounds like the people that are really giving to this community like yourself probably have some of the healthiest businesses because the people that are in over their head don't have time to go hang out or go to lunch or to meet up with people. so, you know, that, and that, you know, that allows people to come in that maybe they're are struggling to meet and hang out with people that are in a healthier place and kind of lend them a hand up. Right. So. Ashleigh Goodchild (11:32) No. It's interesting because in Australia, we've got what we call CPD points. don't know if you've got them, where they're like compulsory development points that you've got to do to hold your registration. and our events, they are not CPD registered, which means that people don't come along because they are coming because they just have to be registered and they just have to do so many points. They come because they actually want to come along. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (11:57) Okay. Yeah. Ashleigh Goodchild (12:12) And I think you'll find that that has made a massive difference with the vibe. Like we had an event the other night, because we sort of run the separate events as well. And, you know, everyone comes along, they're catching up, they haven't seen each other for a couple of months. And it really feels like someone's birthday party. But the important thing is that people are there because they want to, not because they're going to get a CPD point attached to it. And you really can feel that difference in the vibe. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (12:37) Got it. Okay, well, let's take, I'm gonna do a quick word from our sponsors. This will be relevant. If you are a property management business owner, you're tired of getting tangled up in numbers, KRS SmartBooks has your back. They specialize in property bookkeeping for small to mid-sized managers who'd rather focus on, well, managing. So with over 15 years of experience in real estate, accounting, they're pros in Appfolio Yardi and all the top property software. Trust them to make your monthly reports hassle free so you can get back to what really matters running your business. Head over to KRSbooks.com to book your free discovery call. And so maybe that'll help you have a little more time to get back to the property management community. All right. So back to what we were talking about, Ashleigh. I love, I love this idea. I love that you've facilitated this vehicle for everybody to get together. You just, resonate positivity and I'm sure that kind of sets the tone for the group that people are kind of attracted to. And I've been part of groups where the leaders are very positive and it's just a different category and group of people. There's a lot of people that are helpful, positive. I'm in masterminds like that. And then there's others where the leader is more kind of like a dictator cult leader and like, it's just a very different environment. And there's a lot of guilt and a lot of shame and stuff like this, right? and, I've been in some men's programs and things like that that were like that. And it's just, you know, it's a totally different environment. So you've created, and so this is really, I think a strong Testament to you. How many, how many people are involved in this throughout Australia and beyond. Ashleigh Goodchild (14:13) should know the answer to that and I don't. And I would probably say there would be around 20 hosts around Australia. So 20 people, have started having visionary leaders in each state and to help sort of help me control the states. But yeah, about 20 hosts. But then like I've got, for example, an audio summit coming up. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (14:21) Wow, OK. Yeah. Ashleigh Goodchild (14:37) And that's got 17 leaders in Australia doing an audio summit for me. And we're doing 17 days of tips and tricks. So there is a lot of people that make up all of this, a lot of other coaches and trainers that give their time and their knowledge as well to it. So it really is a big project. in total, I'd say there's probably about a good 40, 50 people from coaches, trainers, leaders. who facilitates some sort of knowledge base for me on all these events. So pretty lucky. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (15:07) So describe to me the difference between structured management and random leadership. Ashleigh Goodchild (15:13) Yeah, so that's something that I practice inside my real estate at SoCo. And one thing that I've learned from other people and other leaders is when we do, obviously you need structured management, in terms of processes and procedures and all of that, and that's fine. But when it comes to leadership, sort of what you talking before about the dictatorship, I feel like I probably practice servant leadership a lot more. practice servant leadership at SoCo, which is the real estate, and I practice servant leadership in PM Collective. And very much I do picture myself or feel that I'm a leader from the bottom and that you just tell me what you need and I will deliver it for you. So I do that both in PM Collective and SoCo. And that's where the support comes from. The random leadership, I think, has been something that has really helped me keep long term staff. I'm known in the industry for having a long term team. anywhere between sort of seven years and 15 years average for property managers, which is great. And one of the things I would say have helped me and I have to say I haven't done this on purpose. It's just the way that I've done it. And I now I reflect back on it. I can see how it's worked. And if we were to every single year, give our team a Christmas bonus every single year, they're going to expect that. And if one year you don't do it because you can't afford it or something's changed, people are going to start getting a little bit ticked off because it's like, where's my bonus? get one every year. And I think the same goes with the Jason Hull - DoorGrow (16:52) become expected. Ashleigh Goodchild (16:54) very much expected. And I think when we start getting, creating expectations with our team, that's when we can start getting a little bit of conflict. And I've seen it in a lot of agencies. So where I, I, I think what I think works really well is things like we might as an office randomly buy someone a coffee, or we might just randomly say, Hey, let's go out for lunch, or randomly, we'll do a Christmas bonus randomly. We might shout everyone a voucher for a massage. All of those random things mean so much more to your staff and they appreciate it so much more. Even if it was that $5 coffee or that random walk or that random time that you're giving, I just find that that doesn't set up expectations and people appreciate those little things a lot more. And like I said, it's not something that I went and said to myself, this is how I'm gonna manage my team. It's something that I just did naturally, probably because I'm a little bit scatty and I probably was, you know, not very good at keeping things consistent. But now that I look back on it and I can see that that 100 % has played a massive part in creating a really healthy long-term team. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (18:07) Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. know, yeah, giving gifts means a lot more or giving experiences or doing things means a lot more than, you know, than just a bonus that they're expecting at the end of the year. And most people aren't actually money motivated. BDMs usually probably should be a little bit and maybe entrepreneurs, but that's the mistake entrepreneurs make is that we assume everybody else likes money as much as we do. A lot of times. And so we try to bonus people or reward people or motivate people with money. And a lot of times that backfires. And because most people aren't money motivated or money driven, know entrepreneurs listening right now are like, what? That makes no sense. I don't understand it, but yeah. Ashleigh Goodchild (18:48) I think a lot of businesses as well, they try to manage their team by textbook and you know, the textbook says, we should give people their birthdays off or a textbook says we should, you know, we should do a bonus at Christmas or whatever it might be. But I think, you know, really getting to know each person and I know who in my team values me sitting down and talking to them and asking them how their weekend was. However, if I went and did that to someone else in the team. That'd be like, you just go away. I'm trying to work here. And I, I, I, yeah, I know what, what each person needs to be happy. One thing that I found more recently is that if your team can have a hobby, that is probably the biggest thing to create a happy team and hobbies prevent burnout. And I think that when we get a lot of people in the industry where all they do is work and family, work and family, they don't have anything in between. And so like one of my girls, she loves to play golf. She really young girl, 21 years old, plays golf semi-professionally. And she had asked whether she can start having some private coaching on Tuesday afternoons. So she was going to come in a few hours early. And I was like, absolutely no problems at all. Because if I give her that Tuesday afternoon off to go play golf, there's something else that she loves. I just find that, you know, people have to have other things they love just besides, yeah, besides the work and family. And that's something that I feel like I really try to encourage with everyone in industry is find a hobby if you're feeling stressed. And you know, and a hobby is not, you know, reading a book or something like that. It's actually like playing pickleball or netball or coaching a team or it's something specific. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (20:37) Got it. OK, so you're encouraging team members to have hobbies. And that allows them to maybe have a little bit more to bring to the table in terms of energy and life, it sounds like. Yeah. Ashleigh Goodchild (20:42) 100 % Yeah, yeah, it just allows them to enjoy enjoy work. And like I said before, you've got to have them they need to have a happy home life for them to perform well for your clients. It's really, really important. You can't, you can't have them having a tough personal life at all that's going to affect you and your clients. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (21:10) Got it. Yeah. Yeah. There's a, there's a really good book called giftology by John Rulin. And he talks about the benefit of giving gifts, gift giving, to basically for almost as marketing or do increase referrals or to increase retention. But the same thing applies to team members. These doing these random things, sounds like a really solid idea. And then also encouraging hobbies I think could be really beneficial. So, So explain your vision for a more human and less transactional industry. Ashleigh Goodchild (21:43) So in Australia, have starting to become quite reliant on our offshore staff and our offshore team. And I'm assuming that that's everywhere. Would that be the same with your businesses? Jason Hull - DoorGrow (21:55) Yeah. Yeah, I would say so. There's a lot of people that are hiring VAs in the Philippines or Mexico for sure. Ashleigh Goodchild (22:02) Yeah, I mean, and whether it's part of your business plan or not, you know, I fully respect that. But what we've found in businesses is that by passing on the transactional work to our offshore team, and transactional, mean, collecting the rent, arranging maintenance, sending out inspection letters, you know, all of that sort of admin tasks, we're finding that that's really not where the value of a property manager or business owner is anymore. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (22:19) Mm-hmm. Ashleigh Goodchild (22:31) And so what we need to do is to move our skillset into more of a consulting role. We currently have been doing for a number of couple of years and I teach this a lot to other officers is what we call an annual investor audit. So our annual investor audits, they are 30 minute consults with every client and we are going diving straight into all the holistic side of their property because we need to make sure as a business that our clients are emotionally well and financially well. If they're emotionally and financially well, they're going to keep their investment property. The minute that they're stressed and not making money is the minute that they sell. And obviously that's not what we want in the businesses. So to do that by checking in with them, we are talking to them about any red flags we see with their tenancy with their rent or their inspections. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (23:10) Yeah. Ashleigh Goodchild (23:27) We're talking them through and helping them understand what level of maintenance is considered normal or excessive in their property. If they're not spending enough maintenance, we're talking to them about ideas they've got for future renovations. We're talking to them about what their mortgage rates doing, how are they feeling? Are they positively geared or negatively geared? Is there any circumstance that's coming up in the next 12 months that we should make a note of that might cause them a little bit of stress? We are... Talking about all of those things on a real conversational level and it allows us to pick up trends of what that client's plans are. Are they planning on building a portfolio? Are they planning on selling in six months? Are we going as an office to see a huge wave of clients starting to sell? Is that something we need to protect that, you know, as an asset in our business? And so when we start getting into that consultancy role, it's no different to your accountant organizing a tax planning meeting. you know, in April, for example, that's exactly what we're doing. And we are planting seeds for that client so that they're never surprised when we call them up to say, Hey, your rent's gone backwards, or you got to spend $10,000 on the property. And that has been incredible. It's not only been something that's helped our churn rate. Generally in Australia, churn rate and loss rate for businesses can range anywhere between sort of 15 and 30%. Our office is sitting at about 5%. For it so for a large, a large office with we've got 1200 doors, to have that sort of 5 % churn rate is is actually considered really great. And I do put that down to the annual investor audits. And in addition, though, it allows the business owner Jason Hull - DoorGrow (24:52) Yeah. Ashleigh Goodchild (25:10) to take control of their asset and not to have to maintain that relationship. Because at the end of the day, I'm very passionate about that that client is my client as the business owner. And I need to keep that relationship up. And if I put all of that responsibility onto the property manager and my property manager leaves, I've got a risk that that client is going to follow the property manager. So that's a little bit of my of the importance and responsibility I take as a business owner. So they have been an incredible game changer for retention, but it's also helped uncover new business opportunities because when we've done these for our clients, we've never sort of asked them, do you have any properties? But so many clients have actually said to us, that was so good. Can you do it for my other property? And I'm like, sure. Where's your other property? and got the address and we've subsequently got the business of the because the other agencies weren't doing it. So obviously over time, more offices will start doing it. But that's just a great example of elevating the human side of property management. And we started introducing these in our business, like I said, a couple of years ago, I now teach them to other agencies around Australia. And then as soon as we can get, you know, a really good percentage of businesses, all bringing these in as just a natural part of the business, then we will that's how we see the industry elevate. And then that's just going to be considered a normal thing like checking rent arrears. And so that's really my vision to, to bring in things like that. I've been trialing, I do a lot of like mirroring in the business. So I trial things in my business first. And if it works, I will put it out to the industry. the other trial that I did was, which actually didn't work. And, it was about, I had a junior property manager and we had a lot of clients that we were losing from, from fees from owners being fee driven. And I thought to myself a little bit like a hairdresser. You've got a junior apprentice to cut your hair. You've got a senior stylist or you've got the director. And I thought to myself, I'm actually going to do a fee schedule with a junior rate. So if you want to, if you're fee driven and you want a junior to look after your property with less than one year experience, this is the fee. And if you want a senior, this is the fee. Now I thought that everybody would jump at the junior fee schedule because everyone seemed to be fee driven. What was so interesting is I did this trial for 12 months and I probably had 3%, maybe 2 % of clients actually say, I'll go with the junior fee schedule. Every single person said, thanks, but I think I'll stick with a senior. And I think that that's a great example to showcase that investors do want the experience. They want the peace of mind. And we all thought they wanted cheap fee schedules, but when given the opportunity for the cheap fee schedule with a junior, they didn't take it. So I thought that that was a really good example. Yeah, I know. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (27:49) Mm-hmm. yeah. I could talk about that for an hour. We've tested a lot of stuff on pricing. Ashleigh Goodchild (28:10) But it was just a great test to do. I trialed it, it didn't work. So I've gone to the industry and I've said, given it ago, it hasn't worked. I'm now trialing a second option with fee schedules. And hopefully that works because I just feel like the industry needs to move just from the same fee schedules we've been doing for 20 years. It really is something that needs to be done there. So that's my next mission. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (28:14) Yeah. Yeah, I love it. I love the experimentation. So cool thing about my position is I get hundreds of guinea pigs. And so I do all sorts of testing. And so we could chat about some of that. We've done some fun stuff, but I love the idea of the annual investor audit. call those, we coach clients on that as well. We call those annual portfolio reviews and that's a great opportunity to get more referrals. great opportunity to get more reviews and testimonials. It's a great opportunity to create more connection with the client and to showcase what's invisible to them currently that you're actually doing work. And yeah, and it's going to significantly decrease churn. You mentioned churn maybe between on a lot of companies, maybe being between 15 to 30%. And if you're at 1200 units, I was doing math while you were talking, that would be between 180 to 360 units being lost each year. And so a lot of property managers don't pay attention to what's leaving and they think, well it's infrequent or they're selling their properties or whatever and they're not paying attention to that. They're so focused on how do I get more doors? And sometimes they're losing more doors than they're adding each year or they're just breaking even. And so they've been at the same spot for like a decade sometimes. And they're wondering, why does this feel like a grind? And they're not making progress. And sometimes you have to look at what you're losing and what's your level of service that you have there and how visible is what you're doing to your client? Because if it's not visible, they're going to assume, well, why do I even pay them? They're not doing anything. They're just collecting rent. Yeah. Ashleigh Goodchild (30:15) Yeah, it's like, I call it a, we've got a client success manager. And I think that that's a real missing part in a lot of businesses because we've got the BDM who brings in new business. We've got the property manager who maintains it, but the client success manager actually is what I call a BDM in reverse, because if they can prove your retention, that is growth. So therefore it is still a BDM role. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (30:21) Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah. Ashleigh Goodchild (30:41) that you've got someone specifically for. So that's a real big missing part. And I think a lot of businesses when they don't have somebody specifically on that role. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (30:52) Yeah, I've been privy to see inside of a lot of different types of businesses and being in a lot of different masterminds. And one of the things that I've seen is that some of the most sales oriented organizations, like companies that they're focused on placing salespeople and hiring salespeople and stuff like this, they always have their best salespeople graduate to be on their client success team. is how they kind of position it. And they call that their second sales team. Because these are the people that get people to re-up or renew or continue on, or to bump up into a higher level program. so client success is your other sales team. their whole job is to decrease churn. Their whole job is to increase retention. So at DoorGrow our client success manager is my oldest daughter. And she does our client success. And she's got the personality for it. She's much more of a feeler than I am. She's much more about community than myself, right? I'm more of a logical thinker in a lot of instances. And so clients just love her. She does a great job. And so everybody should have client success. What's funny is in the property management industry, you hear the phrase property manager, but that's like this mystery sort of title that means a different thing to everybody you ask. And so for some of them, some people think their property manager is supposed to be a BDM also. I'm like, those are... probably different personality types. Some think they're the maintenance coordinator, but then they'll hire a maintenance coordinator and they call somebody else a property manager. so property managers also could be those client success people, the relationship builder. And so that's where it gets confusing is when we're, I hired a property manager. Well, okay, what are you having them do? I always have to ask because it's always different. So I don't know if you've noticed that in Australia, but. Ashleigh Goodchild (32:41) Yeah, and I think as well, like, I like what you mentioned before about how a lot of people don't actually see what we do. And I think that's where you've got the opportunity. Because I remember a long time ago, a client said to me, you know, wanting to negotiate on fees after a couple of years. And he said, you know, your job's easy, you don't, you know, the you don't have to do anything for your money. So therefore, you should reduce the fees. And I'm like, Jason Hull - DoorGrow (32:49) Yeah, it's invisible. Ashleigh Goodchild (33:07) Hold on a second, we've chosen a fantastic, perfect tenant. We do a lot in the background to make it look like we are managing it nice and easily and not creating any stress for you. Do you want me to create a problem tenant so it looks like that I'm doing work so that you can justify the fee? Because the fee is so, is reflective on you finding, it look like that we're having a very easy life. but that's taken a lot of skill and experience to do that. It's just so backwards, isn't it? That the way that they validate our fee, if we have got lots of problems and they think we're not worth our fee when we've got nothing to do and got a perfect tenant, which was the result of us putting it in the first place. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (33:34) Yeah. Yeah, I used to work in IT and one of the things I learned in doing IT and working on computers and networks is that if you make everything run perfectly, they wonder why they even pay you at all. And then I also noticed if there was a problem, they're like, why do we pay this person at all? There's now this problem with the network. so either way, couldn't win. So I learned I had to make the invisible visible. I had to tell them all the time, hey, I just updated this server. I just changed this. This has been improved. That's preventing these problems. And they're like, wow, Jason's on top of this. Jason's making everything run smooth. So I had to learn to be noisy. I worked at Hewlett Packard and I was in Boise, Idaho and I had a boss in Texas. And he would just look at our... he would message us all throughout the day through an instant message app or whatever. He would message us, what are you doing? What are you doing? And I was like, he can't see what we're doing. So I just started changing my status. I allowed you to put a little status, they use some Microsoft app, I can't remember Teams, I don't remember what it was. But I just would update it every day and I would say like throughout the day what I was working on in that moment. Updating this, working on this, doing this, and just what I was doing. And so then he started asking, what's your coworker? doing because we were a two person team that were over a big system. And he was like, what's what's what's Josh doing? Is he working? What's he? So he started to perceive that I was on top of things and working and this other person was lazy and not doing stuff. I'm like, no, he's working too. So yeah, but that's I sold, you know, we've translated that to helping clients make sure you're showcasing the invisible because they can't see it. Otherwise, you have to be noisy. And those annual reviews are a great opportunity to do that because you say Here's how many maintenance requests we've handled that you didn't have to deal with. Here's how much money has been collected. Here's the payouts that we've done to you. Here's all the stuff that we've been taking care of that's prevented you from having to deal with this. Here's how many calls we took. Here's how many tickets we handled. All these vanity metrics justify why they spend the money with you. So I love that you're reinforcing that idea. So for my clients listening. She said, and she's got 1200 doors, which is probably more than some of you. so Ashleigh, what do you feel like people are hearing your low churn rate besides the annual investor audits that you do and maybe having a client success manager. I don't, what, what do you feel like is really significantly reduced the churn rate down to 5%. I mean, that's significant in any business. Ashleigh Goodchild (36:25) Yeah, it would. You've got your audits, it would probably be I think myself being a director of the business who is 100 % active in property management and approachable is a really important word. Clients know that they can call me at any time they know that if one of my property managers is on leave, they can call me to handle anything that plays a massive part. And if I reflect on some of my clients, because we all get clients that, you know, maybe aren't happy with something or a little hiccup has happened, to know that my clients don't just silently leave and say, that happened, not happy, I'm gonna go find someone else. They always contact me first. I actually had one the other day to say, Ash, my property manager is really lovely, but I'm just feeling like I need someone with a bit more confidence. No problems at all. Let me move you to this person. The fact that they approach me first and give me the opportunity and know that they can call me to move them. I just take that with so much privilege because that doesn't happen in a lot of offices. If you're not approachable and your client would rather just leave the property, then bother coming to you because they don't think they're going to get heard. That's going to be a problem. So for me, that is massive. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (37:24) Yeah. Ashleigh Goodchild (37:46) And then probably the final thing, I think that our values really show through, through social media and my presence on social media, the fact that they know me on a personal level, they can see that I've got kids, they can see that I've done podcasts, they can see when I win awards, and embracing our clients on our journey and allowing them to see every part of me as a human being, I think is great. We do an annual an annual drive for a not-for-profit. support DB survivors quite a lot in our business and we promote philanthropic investing. And so the fact that we bring in our clients to be involved in that process by buying their clients, their tenants a hamper for Christmas to strengthen relationships has been a fantastic PR exercise with clients saying, you know, yes, please organize my 10 Christmas hamper and we're just so thankful to be aligned with a business like yours that supports, you know, good causes. It's those little things that I've probably played the biggest part in it, in their retention and client success. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (38:49) Love it. Yeah, I love that. A lot of property managers are so focused and business owners are so focused on thinking, what, how do I get more money? How do I take more instead of like the benefit of being involved in how much trust it would create to be involved in some sort of philanthropy or charity or something that's a bit more outward focus. And, and one of things we are really big on at DoorGrow is coaching our clients on finding a, in building out their client centered mission statement is figuring out. How do you make this vision bigger so that you're having a positive impact, not just for yourself, for the business, for your team, but maybe the community at large, maybe the industry at large? And what sort of impact and change do you want to see there and making that vision bigger? Because it allows you to attract team members that are inspired by a bigger vision, allows you to attract clients that resonate and are inspired by a bigger vision. And so you get better people all around. Ashleigh Goodchild (39:48) And it gives other people the opportunity to do good. And with our annual hamper drive, we did that last year. And all we did, we aligned ourselves with a not-for-profit hamper company, which is sort of like a by-product of one of the charities. And they support women getting back into the workforce. And so not-for-profit, we emailed all our clients and we said to our landlords, listen, if you've had a great year with your tenant, we would love to arrange a hamper on your behalf. It's $88. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (39:53) Yeah. Ashleigh Goodchild (40:16) and we'll take it from your rental income and we'll send it on behalf of you for Christmas. It's a great way to acknowledge you've had a great experience with your tenant and strengthen that relationship. And from that alone, just us doing OneDrive last year raised 14,287. And so this year we have now through PM Collective promoted that through other agencies to do the same. And I actually had an email from the CEO of the not-for-profit today and she said, Ash, I am just so excited to get these numbers back to you. We have had such a huge response from you and assitting against it. And I just can't wait to see what the figure will be because I know as an agency, we will do probably double and the fact that other agencies now will do good. It's just an example of the impact that we didn't realize we were having by giving our landlords the opportunity to do good, but then sharing that with other people to give them the opportunity for their clients to do good. It's just so wonderful on so many levels. And it's the same with our philanthropic investing. encourage owners who financially are able to rent out their home at a low market rate to a survivor of DV. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (41:19) Love it. Ashleigh Goodchild (41:29) to do it and you'll be surprised at how many people don't even know it's an option. It's not saying that it's right for every landlord, but there are so many landlords out there who have a vacant property and didn't even know that they could do this jump on board. yeah, giving those opportunities to people that didn't know that it was an option, I think is really great to see. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (41:50) Yeah, love it. mean, people want to feel good about themselves and, you know, being able to give gifts or being able to benefit others makes people feel good about themselves. And if you're giving your clients a chance to feel good about themselves, they're going to associate that with you. Yeah, that's beautiful. So, well, cool. I love all these different ideas and tips. think you've shared that. I love the idea of doing the annual portfolio reviews. love the idea of, you know, the Ashleigh Goodchild (42:04) Yeah. Yeah. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (42:18) charitable stuff, the philanthropy stuff. Love the idea of giving people a vehicle or some method to bypass the frontline staff person that they're assigned so that they can reach somebody that can maybe, if they want to complain about that, that team member or some, there's a, there's a gateway there or a vehicle there for them to do that rather than them just going, well, I guess I have to quit. I don't know. Yeah. So I love, I love these ideas. that I think anybody listening to this would benefit in decreased churn. Ashleigh Goodchild (42:40) Yeah. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (42:47) Well, Ashleigh, I appreciate you coming here on the show. How can people maybe get in touch with you or with your business or whatever you would like to share with others here in closing? Ashleigh Goodchild (42:58) Yeah, well, I mean, I'm very easy to Google. You can just Google Ashleigh Goodchild and hopefully find me there. But I am on Instagram and all the socials under PM Collective or under Ashleigh Goodchild. So I'd love to connect with anyone that finds me on those platforms. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (43:16) Perfect. All right, Ashleigh. We'll probably have to have you come talk to our clients sometime. I think that'd be fun. So, all right. Thank you, Ashleigh. Appreciate you coming here on the show. All right. So for those that are struggling in your property management business and you want to kind of get to that next level, make sure you reach out to us at doorgrow.com. We would love to facilitate or help you or see if we could help you with your business. Ashleigh Goodchild (43:21) Love them. Thanks for having me. Jason Hull - DoorGrow (43:41) If you felt stagnant for a while, also join our free Facebook, just for property management business owners at doorgrowclub.com And if you would like to get the best ideas and property management, join our free newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe And if you found this even a little bit helpful, don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review. We'd really appreciate it. And until next time, remember the slowest path to growth is to do it alone. So let's grow together. Bye everyone.

DGS 315: The Myth of Needing More Property Management Leads

When trying to grow your property management business, have you ever thought to yourself, "Man, it would be great if I just had more leads?" In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull discuss the Leads Myth and how "just having more leads" will not actually help you grow your business. You'll Learn [02:06] The Myth of Needing More Leads [11:39] Leaks in Your Sales Pipeline [22:41] The Future of SEO with AI Quotables "Why do we call it the leads myth? Well, the myth is this lie that we believe that you just need more leads. And the assumption in that is that all leads are the same." "The more clarity you have, the less wrong stuff you're going to be doing." "Not all clients are equal, right? Which means not all leads you get are equal. You need to qualify them." Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind [https://www.doorgrowacademy.com/courses/mastermind] DoorGrow Academy [https://www.doorgrowacademy.com/] DoorGrow on YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC1mGYT2Sw0LOe32hO_QdNg/featured] DoorGrowClub [https://doorgrow.com/] DoorGrowLive [https://doorgrowlive.com/] Transcript Jason Hull (00:00) Most of the industry is trapped in a cycle of suck. This is why most property managers suck in most markets. Maybe even you that's listening. We are Jason and Sarah Hull, the owners of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. We help people grow their property management businesses quickly. And our mission is to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now let's get into the show. All right. So today we're going to be chatting a little bit about the leads myth that a lot of people believe. So if you have ever thought to yourself, I just need more leads. If I just had more leads, everything else would be great in my business. What do you have to say about that? Well, I think that is not the case. Okay. It's definitely not the case. And I also think almost kind of be careful what you ask for a little bit. getting a whole bunch of leads was never really the best. strategy anyway, unless you have people who are just picking up the phone and calling you and saying hey, I Would love for you to just manage my property. I don't have any questions. Here's my money. I just had a contract Those are leads I want but cold leads that are Not ready to go that need to be warmed up that have a bajillion questions That might not even understand why they want to work with you Specifically, yeah, I'm just not interested in those leads. And the other thing I think we need to discuss on this episode specifically is the changes that we're seeing because of AI. So AI is really great and also it's changing things very rapidly and leads and SEO that's very effective by this too. Okay. So. Let's get into this. So a lot of people believe they just need more leads. And the danger in that is if you really just think you need more leads, you're going to go out to the marketplace and talk to marketers and they're going to go, cool, I'll give you leads. And they will sell you leads basically. So why do we call it the leads myth? Well, the myth is this lie that we believe that you just need more leads. And the assumption in that is that all leads are the same. And they're not, they're not even remotely the same. So there's a couple of different frameworks that we usually talk about to kind of destroy the leads myth. One is the four Ds to revenue. Another is the cycle of suck we talk about and how people get stuck in growth. We talk sometimes about the pipeline leaks that you have in your pipeline. And we talk about the myth of SEO or internet marketing. And then we often talk about any others warm versus cold leads and then David versus Goliath. Okay. So we can tackle these all really quickly and go through each of these and maybe some other things will pop up as we go. Cool. Let's talk about all of that and then we'll talk about why AI has changed all of, really all of those things. Okay. That'll be in conjunction with SEO. All right, so let's go through these. And so for those following along, if you stack all these concepts, each one compounds your speed of growth. They're all related. And so these are frameworks that I love to share with clients to help them understand so that they don't make the mistake of doing the wrong stuff. The more clarity you have, the less wrong stuff you're going to be doing. The less you're going to be experimenting, the less you're going to be wasting time. And if you really wanna collapse time, the easiest hack is reach out to us and we can help you with all of this. We've been doing this for over a decade and a half. We have had hundreds of guinea pigs to figure this all out and we have over 100. case studies and testimonials more than anyone else in the industry. All right. Let's get into this. let's talk about the four D's to revenue. So these are four numbers when multiplied equal the gross revenue in your business. And I sometimes call them the four doors to revenue. And I showed four doors with a little multiplication X next to each of them equals your money. Right? So not all leads are equal. So the, these D's are, if you want to write them down, they each start with a D. It is Deals, doors, duration, and dollars. Okay? So the first is like how many deals is this client going to bring you? Not all clients are equal, right? Which means not all leads you get are equal. You need to qualify them. And how many doors are they bringing to the table? Or how many doors per deal are they bringing? And then the third D is duration. How long are they going to stick around or be involved in property management? is are they an accidental investor that's going to stick around for maybe a year, or are they in the buy and hold game and they'll be around for 10? And then the last D is revenue or is dollars. And so are they a cheapo? Are they a premium buyer? Where do they kind of fit? Or are they somewhere in the middle, like the normals as I call them? So we've got these four Ds. So let's play a quick example. Let's take the accidental investor. They couldn't sell their property. They wanna get it rented out. How does this play out in the 4Ds? done one deal. They didn't mean to do a deal, but they did. And it's usually just one door. Maybe sometimes they have two, but very often we just see one door and they're not looking to... to do more deals because as soon as the market spikes and the market is hot, they're going to bail. They're going to sell, which means the duration is questionable. Let's say it's like one year, like if they can just get it rented. but it might be a few months because if the market spikes three months from now, they're probably going to dump that property pretty quick. And then. than the dollars, they're not your premium buyers. They're not looking to do a lot of improvements. They're not looking to spend a lot of money. They're the people who, they have this property, they aren't quite sure what to do with it. They figure, let's just see if I can get it rented. They want it well taken care of, but they're not generally looking to spend a lot of money or invest a lot of money in either the property or maintenance or repairs or improvements or a property manager. So they're just trying to... Do what they need to do. It's like the bare minimum in order to get a tenant. All right, so one, one, one, right? Like one deal, one door, one year duration, for example, if this is worst case scenario and you sign a one year agreement with them and they're a cheapo, right? Now let's take a really great scenario. What would be maybe an opposite scenario or a really great opportunity? Like my, I will say my second largest client. He had 42 doors I think was the right answer but I was looking to buy more. So when I took him on he had 42 by the time I sold the business he had 60 something. So he was always doing multiple deals. Yeah. The doors that he had came out of multiple deals. So since he did multiple deals he also had multiple doors. was consistently looking to grow. He didn't want to just stop, you know, at a certain point he was always looking. He also was a buy and hold investor. He wasn't trying to buy these things and then wait, you know, until the market spiked and then try to sell them and make a profit. He wasn't up for the long term. And he was not a cheapo. He wasn't trying to cut corners. He wasn't trying to cut costs. You he wanted to work with. a property manager, wanted to take care of the properties and make sure that they were being maintained properly. Yeah. Okay. So that's a great example that previous client that you had. So let's just say like on each of these fees, we use tens instead of ones, right? Like let's say they do 10 deals over the life of being with you. They've got 10 doors. Maybe sometimes it's 10 doors per deal if they're doing small multis or something like this, right? And then you've got a 10 year buy and hold duration. In this hypothetical example that I just threw out, it would be 10 times 10 times 10. This would be over a thousand times greater lifetime value than that accidental investor in our previous hypothetical. Does that make sense? So are these even remotely equal? No, not even remotely equal. Should you then spend the same amount of time trying to cultivate both of those type of leads? Probably not. Would you spend the same amount of time following up or giving them attention? Probably not. And the great investor clients probably are easier to deal with, less emotional, have a much higher margin and operational cost is lower, right? And so there's a lot of benefits. so this is, we're just talking about the revenue piece, but when we look at the cost side of things as well, everybody knows having a really bad owner that's really needy and difficult and emotional about the property. can be a big headache and a big challenge and you may be losing money on some of those doors. So, four D's to revenue, that's one concept. One quick thing I wanna add to that is where do you think these owners hang out? So, if you've got an accidental landlord and they are looking for a property manager, where might that lead come from? Versus where might the lead of a client that has 42 doors come from? There's a lot higher probability that an online lead is going to be an accidental landlord. It's not impossible to get an online lead that has 42 doors. It's just probably not your norm because the ones that have 42 doors, they aren't really dabbling. They aren't going, oh, geez, I wonder if I should get a property manager to maybe help me with these. They are just a little bit more savvy. A lot of times those aren't going to be the leads that you're getting if you're buying leads. Although those are the leads that you want, it's not going to be the norm that you get. All right, so we're 10 minutes into this. We're going to crank through some of the rest of these. So cycle of suck. Cycle of suck, real simple. If you take on any client, it leads to you having some bad clients. So if you take on bad clients, that leads to you having bad properties, which leads to having bad. Residents or tenants which leads to having a bad reputation or reviews which leads to you attracting more bad clients. So not all leads are good. You don't want to take on every client and you definitely don't want to attract or get more bad leads. And so this is a framework that if you understand you can reverse it and focus on a cycle of success where you're picky about the owners you take on, you're picky about the properties you take on, you're picky about the tenants which everybody tries to do anyway. but those first two steps are supremely important. And then you're going to have a methodology for getting more positive reviews. These are things we help our clients with. And so then you create a cycle of success. Most of the industry is trapped in a cycle of suck. This is why most property managers suck in most markets. Maybe even you that's listening. We want you to get out of the cycle of suck. All right, let's talk about the pipeline leaks. Okay. So usually if I were drawing, I would draw a spigot or a faucet or whatever you attach a hose to, and then I would draw a hose, and then I would draw a little plant or tree that you're trying to grow at the end of the yard that this hose is trying to get water to. Most of you listening think, I just need more leads. This is where the lead Smith becomes really obvious, trying to turn on that faucet even more. I just need more water flowing through the hose. That would make sense, that would be true unless there's a problem with the hose, right? Like the hose has some leaks. And if the hose has some major holes in it, there's not going to be a lot coming out the other end. Sometimes very little at all. And so it's not about how many leads you're getting, sometimes it's just how good is your pipeline? How tight is your product? And so we need to make sure that we get those leaks shored up. And we'll just mention what they are real quick, but. One of the earliest ones that affects you is just awareness. It's going to be your perception and reputation online. It's going to be your website. It's going to be your branding. So they can tell that you are in this industry and that it's clear that that's your focus and it's not real estate or something else. And what else? Your culture and purpose. This is the actual product that you sell. So that is another one. And there are two more. Pricing. Pricing, which everybody's trying to price the same way, 10 % or worse, pure percentage, or they're doing flat fee. We have a different innovative pricing model. If you're curious about that, set up a call with our team. We can tell you about it. That allows you to close more deals more easily at a higher price point. And the last is the pitch, right? Selling. And so if you can dial in each of these leaks, what we've noticed over the years is we can double a company's close rate without changing the amount of leads or lead sources that they're getting currently if we can get those things dialed in. And that's significant. Maybe you don't need more leads. Maybe you just need less leakage in your pipeline. Cool. All right, the next one, you had mentioned warm versus cold leads. Do you wanna explain the difference? Yeah, we can talk about warm versus cold. So when I had my property management business, Yeah. what is a cold lead? So cold lead is someone who really has almost zero, very little familiarity with who you are in your company and your brand and what you do. They don't. they should work with you. That's the big thing is why they should work with you. So they don't know you, trust you or like you. That's a cold lead. And a warm lead. Warm lead would be something like a referral or some sort of recommendation. hey, Sarah is the best, I work with her and you should too. Now they're coming in already feeling like, somebody that I know that I trust recommended this person, so therefore I should also trust this person. So those obviously have a much different close rate. And there are things that you can do to increase your close rate or to warm up deals, of course. But if you're spending all of your time trying to close a bunch of cold leads, which generally is going to be what happens when you're purchasing leads, you really don't get to buy warm leads. Right. They're all cold. I mean, that would be great if you could, but when you're buying leads, you're usually buying a lead that is very cold. They don't know you at all. And oftentimes that same lead is being sold to multiple different companies. There's a lot of blood in the water there. So warm leads versus cold leads, the close rate on warm leads will be really high, like 90 % or higher. Cold leads, like the opposite, 10 % or worse. And so I would rather a client get five warm leads and maybe close four of them than 10 cold leads and maybe get one. The hidden pain point or secret with warm versus cold lead generation. or cold lead strategies is time. Cold leads take a massive amount of time because you have to nurture them and warm them up and build the trust and create the relationship. And even after all of that, and all of sudden done, the conversion rate's really low. So all of you know how high the close rate is if you get a really great word of mouth referral. We love those, right? That's a warm lead. So we have strategies and methods that we focus on with clients to increase the warm leads. while avoiding and doing cold lead advertising and avoiding worrying about cold leads. Once you start getting some growth engines installed for your business that give you warm leads, you're not going to want the cold leads. They feel like garbage in comparison, and you're not going to have time for them. And you're not going to wanna waste time on those because those are often the worst owners. All right. What I would say is as far as getting leads in, if you give me three warm leads, I will take three warm leads over even 100 cold leads. Sure. don't, I don't, I'm not really interested because even if I close, let's say two out of the three warm leads, that's great. What's the close rate on 100 cold leads? If it's about 10%, you might close 10. And some of you might be going, Sarah, 10 is better than two. Yeah, you're right. But how much work did it take for me to close the two versus how much work? did it take for me to close the 10? I would rather close two very easy warmed up leads because I can do that again and again and again. So in the same amount of time, I can close way more warm leads than I can cold leads. So I would rather take three warm leads than a hundred cold leads any day of the week. We have a sponsor for this episode. Many of you tell me that maintenance is probably the least enjoyable part of being a property manager and definitely the most time consuming. But what if you could cut that workload by up to 85 %? That's exactly what Vendero has achieved. They've leveraged cutting edge AI technology to handle nearly all your maintenance tasks from initiating work orders and troubleshooting to coordinating with vendors and reporting. This AI doesn't just automate, it becomes your ideal employee, learning your preferences and executing tasks flawlessly, never needing a day off and never quitting. This frees you up to focus on the critical tasks that really move the needle for your business, whether that's refining operations, expanding your portfolio, or even just taking a well deserved break. Over half of the room last year at DoorGroad Live, our conference signed up with Vendero right there. And then a year later, they're not just satisfied, they're raving about how Vendero has transformed their business, don't let maintenance drag you down. Step up your property management game with Vendoroo. Visit Vendoroo.ai slash door grow today and make this the last maintenance hire you'll ever need. All right. I thought it was a good time because it was a good time. Waste of time and I don't like to waste time and maintenance coordination can be a huge waste of time. Yes. All right. Let's talk about David versus Goliath. So I'll give you an example. We've got a client. that has, so this is dumb David versus smart David, right? The story of David and Goliath, if you're not familiar with the Bible. David goes to fight Goliath. These two warring nations send out their best person and David decides he is not going to wear the armor, the sword, the shield, all the heavy stuff. He's just bringing out his slingshot. He's got his sling, he's got some rock and he goes out to fight Goliath and he's like, I don't need all that stuff. What most property managers do is David basically brought a superior technology. He brought a gun to a sword fight and he was good at this. He trusted himself. He had skill. He had a better tech to beat this giant. He flung the rock right into the guy's head. I had knocked him unconscious or killed him, I don't know. And then he chopped the guy's head off with his own sword. Right. And so that's the story of David and Goliath. So let's talk about the dumb version of David. Like if David wasn't smart. And he said, I'm going to do all the same stuff. I'm going to use the sword of SEO and the shield of pay per click and the helmet of content marketing and the breastplate of social media marketing. And I'm going to do all the same stuff, digital marketing that all the other big companies are doing that are spending two to $3,000 a month or greater. I'm going to go compete with them as a small startup or a small pro. two to 400 unit property management business and try and compete with these big companies that have thousands of doors. One of our clients, as an example, came to us has 6,000 doors. They were spending $30,000 a month doing these strategies to try to grow and it wasn't even working for them. So why would you go and do what the big guys are doing and lose the battle with them and it's not even working for them, right? So that's the idea of David and Goliath. Don't go do what the big guys are doing, find a better way to compete, especially if you're smaller than them. You don't wanna try to outspend them, because that's not going to be possible. right, myth of SEO. All right, and we'll talk a little bit about the future and AI, all right, to wrap things up. So, all of you can go check this out for yourself. This is not me making stuff up. You can go on trends.google.com. You can go look up property management. date it, the time period, to the current time back to 2004, to the present. And you can filter by the US if you want to. What you'll see is that property management search volume, the amount of people searching for property management on Google has not increased since they started tracking data back in 2004. What has increased? The Goliaths, right? The companies spending a lot of money on digital marketing trying to do all this stuff. And so it's created a lot more competition. So this is where we get into another framework that we share, which is the blue ocean versus the red ocean. There's this small little area of the ocean that's red bloody water where all the sharks are fighting over the worst fish, which are these terrible property management business owners that are at the end of the sales cycle. Basically the crappy scraps that fell off the word of mouth table that the warm lead stuff has captured. They're what's left over. And so there's these ugly gross fish and the sharks are all fighting over the worst stuff. And there's this huge ocean full of fish in the U.S. 60 % are self-managing. There's tons of business out there. And so the myth of SEO is basically this, that in order to win the game, you need to have the top spot on Google. Not true. You don't even have to show up on Google in order to go out and be able to create business. Because there aren't really people searching for property management. It's very small. So you don't need to be found on Google. You need to go find owners because the best clients are offline and they're not looking for you and they don't like doing property management and they need you, but they're not looking for property management actively right now. And you can figure out how to go make that happen and we can teach you, right? So let's talk about the future of AI. What are we noticing? Well, I don't think it's any surprise. messed up a lot of Yeah, it's changing everything. AI is going to change everything. And if you haven't noticed it yet, just hold on because you will. It's crazy if you haven't even seen it yet. But it's it's going to flip everything you know upside down, including SEO. Yeah, including SEO. So everyone that is like, no, I don't care. I'm still going to do SEO. That's the only way to go. Like we made a video about this. specifically for this reason, but even the ones who are still clinging to SEO and you just can't let it go and you don't know that there's another way and maybe you don't believe it and you're like, no, I'm no, this is the only thing I'm going to do and I'm going to do this and that's the only way I can grow the business. That is all right and SEO is going to force you to look at that. Okay, yeah, so what we're seeing is search volume on Google is going down. There's less people using Google. More people are now going to LLMs like ChatGPT, Clod, Perplexity, Google's Gemini. So people are using tools now, sometimes within software, and they're using these tools to ask questions, to figure things out, figure out who they should use or who they should choose or what they need. And so Is it still relevant to have good reviews? Yes. Is it still relevant to maybe have some SEO stuff going? Probably, but it's certainly on the down slope and it's certainly decreasing. The game is changing. Even if you search on Google now, the AI at the top will respond to your search request anyway. And a lot of people are just reading that and not really looking at the results below. And so this is the new future. It's changing very quickly. and some are calling it AEO, some are calling it LLM, SEO, there's all these different phrases that are coming out. If you want to do a quick experiment, open up one of these LLMs like ChatGBT. Don't be in your own. It's a large language model. It's basically all these different AI chat tools. So go into ChatGBT. Everybody should be familiar with that by now if you're not. and go to ChatGPT open that up, but make sure you're not logged in or you use a different account and just, or say don't use any of my previous data or open a private window and say don't use any of my previous information or data and say who's the best property manager or what property manager should I choose in X market, right? And see if it comes up. See if your business comes up and see what shows up. And so this is... how people are kind of doing some of their research, but all the stuff we just talked about still applies. Don't think your whole goal needs to be LLM SEO, where you need to start getting these chat tools to tell people. Why? Because most people are not looking for a property manager. They're not looking. They are not trying to find you. That's the mistake most people make. The majority of people that are self-managing, the potential business, are not looking for a property manager. It's really rare that somebody has a property manager that they're looking actively for a new one unless they've really done a bad job or stolen money or done something really obvious. The people that need your services are not looking for you. You need to be looking for them. And so this is where you can skip all of the cold lead marketing. You don't need to spend money on SEO or AI SEO or Google Ads or pay-per-click or any of these marketing agencies, you don't need to spend any money and you can actually grow faster if you use our strategies and it costs you nothing to do the strategies that we give you. It costs time and action, but it actually takes less time because warm leads and focusing on more effective strategies give you a much greater result in less time. So less time, less money, more results. And that's why we call it the Leadsmith. A lot of people think I just need leads. Cool. there's better ways. Not all leads are equal and we can help you out. Cool. Anything else we should add in wrapping up? I don't think so. I think we covered everything. Okay. I think we got it. So cool. Well, if you are wanting to figure out how do I grow this business? How do I finally get out of the rut that I've been in? How do I scale this? Maybe adding more doors is creating you grief and pain and you want freedom from your business. These are the things we help clients with. We'll help you figure out how to grow dramatically faster and we'll help you figure out how to make your business scalable while getting you out of the day to day and getting you to exit the business in various ways so that you get more freedom. So if you felt stuck or stagnant, you want to take it to the next level, reach out to us at doorgrow.com. Also join our free Facebook community just for property management business owners at doorgrowclub.com if you would like to get the best ideas in property management, join our newsletter at where? doorgrow.com/subscribe And if you found this even a little bit helpful, don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review. We'd really appreciate it. And until next time, remember the slowest path to growth is to do it alone. So let's grow together. Bye everyone.

DGS 314: Deduct Yourself Before you Wreck Yourself - Cost Segregation for Property Managers

What if you could take out a loan with 0% interest and invest that money for as long as you own your investment property? This is something that cost segregation can help real estate investors do. In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with Daniel Boyd from CSSI Services to talk about cost segregation, one of the most powerful ways to uncover hidden tax savings for property owners and managers. You'll Learn [03:10] How Cost Segregation Works [08:54] Recent Changes to Depreciation Rules [11:59] Why Real Estate Investors Should Care About Cost Segregation [18:33] The Importance of Working with Tax Experts Quotables "The big idea here is there's things in the property that wear out fast and there's things that that wear out slow." "We love deductions because we want to pay as little tax as possible." "Wouldn't it be great to take a $100,000 loan with 0 % interest, invest it for as long as you own the property?" Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind [https://www.doorgrowacademy.com/courses/mastermind] DoorGrow Academy [https://www.doorgrowacademy.com/] DoorGrow on YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC1mGYT2Sw0LOe32hO_QdNg/featured] DoorGrowClub [https://doorgrow.com/] DoorGrowLive [https://doorgrowlive.com/] Transcript Dan Boyd (00:00) Wouldn't it be great to take a $100,000 loan with 0 % interest, invest it for as long as you own the property? And then when you sell the property, you give the loan amount back and you keep whatever you made on that investment. Jason Hull (00:06) I'm Jason Hull, CEO and founder of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. We have been helping people for over a decade and a half. At DoorGrow, our mission statement is to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now, let's get into the show. My guest today is Dan Boyd. We're going to talk about cost segregation, one of the most powerful ways to uncover hidden tax savings for property owners and managers. you'll learn how to accelerate depreciation, apply repair regulations, and know when expenses can be written off immediately. These strategies can help you improve client cashflow, strengthen relationships, and stand out in the market. All right, Dan, welcome to the DoorGrow Show. Thanks so much for being here with you. So Dan, before we get into cost segregation, which is an interesting subject, that's... Dan Boyd (01:10) Thanks so much. Great to be here with you. Jason Hull (01:19) They had some changes recently, right? There's been some changes in depreciation thanks to Mr. Trump and all this stuff going on, right? The president, I think. So I'm curious what you have to say about that. But tell us, how did you get connected to this business? Give us some backstory on Dan. Dan Boyd (01:36) Sure, yeah, it's a little funny. I meet, you bet, I meet people from time to time and they say, how on earth did you get into this line of work? Because it's not like anybody goes to school to work in cost segregation or at least cost segregation sales. know, tale as old as time, I knew somebody. And so I was working in the nonprofit sector. My goal was to become a superintendent. So I had gotten a doctorate in education and I was headed in the right direction. But I found out that the average superintendent lasts for about two years. Dan Boyd (02:05) and then they get run out of town for one reason or the other. And it's typically a very stressful two years. And so while it's a rewarding ⁓ position and the compensation is usually pretty good, I thought, why don't I just skip those two years and go into sales and consulting? And so somebody had told me, I think you'd be pretty good at this. And so I started selling cost segregation for our company. And then, There was an opportunity, they said, you know what, we needed to improve our training and our education, and you've got the perfect background. You understand what we do, but you also come from a world of education, so why don't you join us in that capacity? And so it's been a very good fit since then. Jason Hull (02:28) Got it. So you didn't wake up as like a kid in elementary school saying you wanted to do cost segregation. Dan Boyd (02:48) Believe it or not, no, I can't even say it was on the radar, right? There was like baseball player and then commando and maybe basketball player and football player. So like cost segregation wasn't anywhere near the top of that list. Jason Hull (02:53) Property management business coach was not on my radar back then either, so I get it. All right, cool. So let's get into the topic. So cost segregation, how do we uncover some hidden tax savings? Dan Boyd (03:14) So the big idea here is there's things in a property that wear out fast and there's things in a property that wear out slow. But how do you know? And that's where we come in. So our job is to tell you with our knowledge of the IRS code and buildings, that's what makes us unique. We're very good at both of those things. ⁓ What's the value of everything in your property that wears out quickly? Once you know that, you get to write it off quickly. So let's say you buy an apartment building for a million dollars, Ordinarily, you're going to depreciate that whole building over 27 and a half years. Well, there's components in that property that are going to last three years, five years, seven years. So shouldn't you be able to write it off sooner? The answer is yes. And that was actually there's a landmark court case that led to this. And that was the big argument is, hey, we replace some of these components every five years. You're making us wait 39 years because it's a commercial property to depreciate it. And the court ruled in their favor and said, you're right. And so our job is to come in and really give somebody a huge deduction in the first year. Sometimes 25, 30, 40 % of the building value can be deducted as quickly as the first year. Jason Hull (04:28) Okay, got it. That's significant. Okay. And we love deductions because we want to pay as little tax as possible. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love asking business owners. I say, what's the biggest expense in your business? Dan Boyd (04:34) We do. Absolutely. Yeah. If I have yet to meet somebody who's happy with the amount they have to pay and wouldn't reduce it if they had the chance. Jason Hull (04:49) And then they usually say payroll or staffing. And I say, no taxes, but then payroll. Yeah. they forget about it they don't think of it. It's like grabbing, right? Like you just assume it's there and you have to obey the laws. OK, you just move past it. It's like, well, my biggest expense is payroll because people are expensive. Well, yes, that's true. But if there's if you have deductions, right, if it's part of the tax code, you can legitimately I joke. Dan Boyd (04:55) Yep. And they forget about it because they don't think of it. It's like gravity, right? Like you just assume it's there and you have to obey the laws. And so you just move past it. Right. It's like, well, my biggest expense is payroll because people are expensive. Well, yes, that's true. But if there's if you have deductions, right, if it's part of the tax code, you can legitimately I joke like anybody cannot pay taxes. We help people not owe taxes. Jason Hull (05:17) Okay, yeah. So I was flying actually this weekend with my wife for the first time because she's working on her pilot's license. she wanted me to be in the plane with her and wanted me to experience flying with her. And so she doesn't have her license yet. So I got to sit in the back and she had her instructor next to her and they're flying. And her instructor, I was like this, you know, I was making jokes about how flying isn't. You know, it's pretty relaxing, pretty calm most of the time. And he said, well, I said, I thought it would feel like a roller coaster. He's like, do you want it to feel like a roller coaster? I'm like, sure. And so he does some fancy eight maneuvers or whatever. But what was interesting is when gravity disappeared, when I did not feel gravity anymore, I was like, I'm missing something that I'm so used to. I don't even know that it's there, but you notice it when it's gone quite a bit. Right? It was very noticeable to not have gravity and just be kind of sitting above my seat a little bit as we kind of dropped. And I was like, okay. So yeah, so taxes can be a little bit like gravity, I guess. Constant pressure. Dan Boyd (06:26) Yeah, and if all of sudden, you you were, yeah, if you were used to paying $100,000 in taxes and then all of sudden you didn't have to, you would notice that. That'd be a big deal. Jason Hull (06:33) Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that would be great. All right. So what are the steps to making that happen? Dan Boyd (06:42) So first thing is, ⁓ assuming that this makes sense, you've got to owe taxes and you need to hold your building for at least a couple of years. And I can get into why. But ⁓ if you wanted to see, does this make sense for me, just get an estimate. So find a reputable firm to work with that does engineering-based cost segregation. And they'll send you an estimate. And they'll say, hey, we think you're going to get somewhere between these two numbers. And that's a high and a low end. And so in general, that's 25 % of what we call the building value. So subtract land out, right? Now you're just left with the building on that lot. That's what you get to depreciate. So if you've got an $800,000 building, maybe you paid a million, land is worth $200,000, subtract that out. So you got $800,000. And again, you'll get a range saying maybe you'll get somewhere between $180,000 up to $300,000 in depreciation. If you like the way that looks, the fee makes sense, and you owe taxes, and you can use it this year, then you proceed with that cost segregation study. And usually, I would say with our firm within two to four weeks, we give somebody a report. So we make it very simple. That report justifies the big deduction. So if somebody ever got audited, which is a pretty rare occurrence anyway, they would be able to explain, here's why we did this. This is legitimate. We worked with a firm that has real engineers that did this. And it gives the CPA what they need. know, CPA is not just going to say, okay, yeah, I'm going to give you a $200,000 deduction for fun. They have to feel comfortable because their signature is going on it. So it's our report that demonstrates to the CPA and to the IRS, this is a legitimate deduction within the tax code and this will stand up to an audit. Jason Hull (08:25) Cool, because we got to make sure that IRS is okay with this. I don't really care if the IRS is happy, but I don't want to be on their bad side either. I just want them to leave me alone. That's really, I think, the goal, right? Got it. Okay. So your company helps with this, right? CSSI. Yes. Okay, got it. Dan Boyd (08:28) Absolutely. If they're not happy, nobody's happy. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, as long as they're well, I just want them to be happy with you. We're not unhappy with you. Yes. Jason Hull (08:53) Okay, so, are there different rules? I had mentioned at the beginning, maybe, I don't know, but I thought some rules that kind of change with depreciation and how it works, just recently. Dan Boyd (09:05) They did. Yeah. So in ⁓ this most recent one big beautiful bill, there was a change that brought back what's called 100 percent bonus depreciation. So what does that mean? There's some misunderstandings and sometimes people assume that means you can deduct 100 percent of the building value. That's not the case. So I said there's stuff in a property that wears out fast and there's stuff that wears out slow. So the IRS has categories for that that they call useful lives. So there's a probably the most common categories that ⁓ Property managers are gonna need to be aware of are the five-year useful life and that's roughly the stuff inside the units and then there's the 15-year useful life That's the site improvement. So that's a parking lot. That's landscaping that signage. That's a fence. That's a pool Those kind of things the things on the common ground, right? so what that means is if something has a five-year useful life, you depreciate it over five years. So automatically, that's faster than 27 and a half. So that's accelerated depreciation, because we accelerated it from 27 and a half years to five years, and from 27 and a half to 15 years. Bonus depreciation lights a fire underneath those two categories. And so rather than waiting five years or 15 years, you get some percent of that value right now. So if we're in 100 % bonus year, it means you get 100 % of the five-year value and 100 % of the 15-year value right away. And so ⁓ if we just say, you know what, cabinets, countertops, crown molding, that kind of thing, swimming pools, parking lots, that's all gonna be accelerated. So if you had $500,000 in those two categories, rather than waiting five years or 15 years to get that money, you bonus depreciate it and get all of it this year. ⁓ We just came out of what's called a sun setting bonus period. so from 2022 to 20, I'm sorry, from 2017 to 2022, people got 100 % bonus depreciation. So if your property was placed in service as a rental in those years, it gets 100 % bonus period. Doesn't matter when you do the cost segregation. But in 2023, it started to go down 20%. So 2023 was an 80 % bonus year. 2024 was a 60 % bonus year. And the first 19 days of 2025 are a 40 % bonus year. So 100 % bonus depreciation kicks in on inauguration day. So they made it retroactive to the inauguration day. So if you bought Dan Boyd (11:27) 2023 was an 80 % bonus year, 2024 was a 60 % bonus year, and the first 19 days of 2025 are a 40 % bonus year. So 100 % bonus depreciation kicks in on Inauguration Day. So they made it retroactive to the Inauguration Day. So if you bought a property and placed it in service on January 20th or later, you get 100 % bonus depreciation. Jason Hull (11:54) Cool. Okay. Right. So thank you, Donald. All right. So why should investors that are wanting to invest more care about cost segregation? Why should they be paying attention to this? Because I think this plays into their strategy, but some may not get it. Dan Boyd (11:56) Yeah. Great question. So the time value of money, if I could give you $100 today or $1 a day for the next 100 years, it's worth way more to you to get that money today because you can invest it, right? There's no inflation, yada, yada, yada. So the more tax deductions or reductions you can get early on, the more you're able to free up your capital and deploy it to grow your portfolio, right? to repair your property, to increase rent, to pay down debt. And that money is worth a lot more to you today. So if you can get 25 % of your building value back now, rather than in a quarter century, why wouldn't you do that? Jason Hull (12:56) Got it, okay. Let's do a quick word from our sponsor, Cover Pest. And then we'll continue. Cover Pest is the easy and seamless way to add on demand pest control to your resident benefits package for your property management company. Residents love the simplicity of submitting a service request and how affordable it is compared to traditional pest control options. Investors love knowing that their property is kept pest free and property managers love getting their time back and making more revenue per door. Simply put, Cover Pest is the easiest way to handle pest control issues at all your properties to learn more and to get special DoorGrow pricing, visit coverpest.com/doorgrow All right, cool. Check out Cover Pest. All right, so back to this idea of investors leveraging cost segregation. So this is going to allow them basically more money now means you can take that money, deploy it in more effective ways now to grow it so you can have more of it later, right? Is kind of the idea. Dan Boyd (13:59) Yeah, absolutely. ⁓ If you owe taxes right now and you own rental property, as long as you're going to hold that property for even just two or three years, you are going to make more money by taking more depreciation, reducing your tax burden, freeing up capital to reinvest and make some rate of return. And so as long as you can invest that money and earn a return, then you're going to benefit from doing this. Jason Hull (14:06) Yeah, same reason I file an extension every year. I wanna delay the IRS having access to any of the funds so that I can do more stuff with it before they get their hands on it, right? So more money faster and... Dan Boyd (14:38) There you go. Jason Hull (14:42) IRS later. Yeah, that's the ideal goal. Cool. So how do they make sure that they're making good decisions around all of this? This is where a company like CSSI comes in, I would imagine. Dan Boyd (14:54) Yes, so we see ourselves as consultants. so in fact, just probably an hour ago, I was on the phone with somebody who couldn't benefit from a cost segregation. And it was really because he didn't owe enough in taxes. And I said, you just don't need this deduction right now because you don't owe anything. And so you'll be paying for the service to get a huge deduction. And that's great. But it only makes sense to have a big deduction if you have a lot of income. And so our job is to look at somebody's scenario and say, here's what we think your deduction will be, let's match that up with what's your tax liability? Do you owe a lot this year? Or maybe are you going to owe next year? Should you wait? And then how long are you going to own this property? Let's do the math and figure out, does this investment make sense? And so that's kind of the big one. My two litmus tests are, do you owe taxes? And are you going to own this property long enough to invest this? And the reason for that is when you take depreciation on a property, That's kind of the big one. My two litmus tests are, you owe taxes? And are you going to own this property long enough to invest this? And the reason for that is when you take depreciation on a property, whatever you take out, you owe back when you sell the property. That's called recapture. And so oftentimes people are afraid of that. But I think the best way to think of that is like a loan, right? The IRS loans you that depreciation. And then when you sell the property, you owe the depreciation back. But they don't charge you interest on that. And so Wouldn't it be great to take a $100,000 loan with 0 % interest, invest it for as long as you own the property? And then when you sell the property, you give the loan amount back and you keep whatever you made on that investment. Jason Hull (16:15) Okay, so how long is long enough to own the property then? Dan Boyd (16:25) It depends on your rate of return. And so if I give somebody, let's say, $100,000, and they can make 7.5%, as long as they pay less than $7,500 to get the cost segregation study, they're going to make money. And so that's usually how I do that math. And it's different for everybody. And sometimes they're not sure. And so I'll kind of walk them through. my tendency is to be a little cautious with it and say, if you're not sure, I don't want you to get into a situation where you're going end up owing more than you got in terms of your reduction in taxes and any benefit out of this. But I'd say a very comfortable break-even period is three years. Jason Hull (17:07) Okay, got it. Okay, so if they own it for at least three years, then it may make sense. They should probably be considering it. Especially if they owe taxes and they haven't figured out how to zero those out. Dan Boyd (17:12) Yeah, absolutely. And if they plan to. Yeah, exactly. Because once you pay taxes, money's gone forever. You can't get it back. No, not at all. And if you, you know, if people are worried like, I don't want the depreciation, I don't want the depreciation recapture in the future. It's like, okay, well really what you're saying is you'd rather have that money in three years when you sell the property than have it now. And if that's true, that's fine. But then you're missing out three years of the time value of money of money. Right. And if you're a decent investor, you could probably do something with that money, like grow it over the next three years. Dan Boyd (17:55) Yeah, absolutely. In that example I used, you know, getting $100,000 in tax savings back for 7,500, it may cost less than 7,500. Jason Hull (18:05) So it could be a no-brainer, but you'll help them see that, which makes it probably a very easy product to sell to the right person. Dan Boyd (18:08) Yeah, I try not to make it too complicated. We are in the tax world, right? It's tax and real estate, so it's kind of funky. But I just try to keep it high level and let people know, hey, here's what you're to deduct. So in other words, here's how much income you won't owe taxes on. And mathematically, does that make sense for you? And if so, let's talk about the next steps. Jason Hull (18:33) So what are the other big questions that people ask you when you are selling these services? Dan Boyd (18:40) Great question. So the big one is, I going to get in trouble with the IRS? The answer there is no. So this is no more risky than even just, let's say, cost segregation. So our company's done in the ballpark of 55,000 studies. And we have not seen that this triggers an audit. And when the IRS asks to take a second look, they're usually just as part of due diligence. And so they don't reject the results. They don't have penalties or anything like that. They're usually just, you that's part of due diligence. And so they don't reject the results. They don't have penalties or anything like that. So it's pretty rare that somebody would even get an audit when they have a cost segregation done. The other, I would say like a typical safety concern, right? Is people say, well, that's my CPA's job, right? They do that. a CPA, kind of depending on who your CPA is and how they operate. You might say it's not really their job to look for business strategies for you, right? Ways that you can deploy capital and invest it. Dan Boyd (19:39) They're preparing your taxes, right? That's really what they're allowed to do. So I think people often make that mistake of thinking that their CPA is their business coach. And plain and simple, they are not, unless you're paying them a lot of money to do that. And so we work with a lot of CPAs who do that type of consulting and work, and they refer their clients to us, because this is not something a CPA can do, because you've got to have an engineering background. And so unless your CPA went to school first to be an engineer and then a CPA. This is not in their wheelhouse. if their firm offers it, they're probably just working with a firm like ours and saying, OK, we'll pay for the study, and then we'll give it or sell it to our client. Jason Hull (20:29) They are not trying to do anything related to lowering your tax dollars. yeah. so we've been, and I have been able to wipe out our taxes just by getting really good tax advice, but it's never from our CPA or from our accountant. Yeah. So I would recommend anybody listening get. Dan Boyd (20:47) Yeah, as you would expect it to be. Jason Hull (20:50) If you have a CPA, awesome. And I highly recommend you go, if you're a business owner, get a profit first certified professional. I think that's a good early stage step to making sure you have financial health in your business. They're going to take things a little bit beyond just standard accounting, but go find a tax expert that's going to help you with tax stuff. And then you're going to need probably experts like CSSI. We used a special company that assessed our own property so we could rent it to ourselves using the Augustus rule and stuff like this. So there's niche companies that you can use that will help find more money for you. Dan Boyd (21:29) It's, know, in ⁓ any line of work, there's specialties. And so, you know, in medicine, there's specialists, right? You've got your general practitioner, and they see you for normal things, right? You go there when you have a cold or for an annual checkup. But when something serious is going on, you always go to a specialist. And taxes are the same way. And so I'd say, you somebody's CPA is like their family doctor, and they should see that family doctor on a regular basis. But we're the specialists. I would say we're probably most like a radiologist, right? Because we see things that other people don't see in terms of tax savings. And so that's our role. We don't prepare taxes. We prepare reports that help people not owe a lot of taxes. Jason Hull (22:10) Right. And there's a lot of different specialists out there and we've leveraged several financially and I'm sure there's more we're not even aware of that, you know, as Sarah and I grow and learn in our financial health, you know, that we will utilize. these are these are things that I would love everybody listening to be aware of. So I'm glad to have you here today. So did we miss anything that you think would be important for the audience to know about cost segregation? So, Dan Boyd (22:36) So, you know, why would like to your audience, why does this matter? And I'd say, if your clients don't hear about it from you, they're going to wonder why they're going to think my like, I trust this person with real estate, I would have expected them to know about this. And so Jason Hull (22:39) Yeah. Ooh, yeah. them to know about this. Yeah, they are expecting you to be the investment specialist. That's where you set yourself head and shoulders above just being a property manager where you're like, you know, a commoditized service. Then you're at that next rung on the ladder where you're an advisor, you're a consultant, they appreciate you. so, yeah, property managers could be leveraging CSSI. How can they leverage you guys? So a really easy way to get in touch with us is Dan Boyd (22:56) Yes. Yep. So a really easy way to get in touch with us is you can just go to our website and there's a calculator there. And I think actually this is what would be even better. I think we have a landing page, especially for DoorGrow listeners. So people can go there and you can get information about a property. if you want information for a client, you could go there and you could submit a request and we will send you an estimate for that client, that property. With a discount for DoorGrow listeners. so, ⁓ yeah, there we go. So that's cssiservices.com slash DoorGrow. And ⁓ that's probably the best way, right? There's some basic information you can put in about the property and that will go to me and to one of our other reps, George Taylor. And we'll make sure to walk you through it, help you understand how you can talk to your clients about this so that you come across as the expert, right? We wanna, we don't need to take center stage. We wanna help you. And we'll make sure to walk you through it, help you understand how you can talk to your clients about this so that you come across as the expert, right? We don't need to take center stage. We want to help you be the be the expert and really deliver the great news to your clients. And again, if they hear this from you, they're going to say, that's why I work with this person. I work with them because they're looking out for me. They have my best interest in mind. And if they don't hear from you, then they'll say, wow, I wonder why, you know, why didn't they know about this? Or if they did know about it, why didn't they tell me? Jason Hull (24:33) Yeah, they're expecting you to be the investment specialist and it's a painful realization for them when they get advice outside on their property. That's a good idea and you didn't give it to them. So you want to be the one that delivers this good news. So ⁓ yeah, so that website address is C as in Charlie, S-S-I-S-E-R-V-I-C-E-S. So CSSI services dot com slash DoorGrow. Dan Boyd (24:48) Absolutely. Dan Boyd (25:08) And is that DoorGrow just ⁓ all one word? OK, gotcha. Yeah. So and I'd say, you know, doesn't there's no cost to getting the estimate to determine, hey, how much is how much could this save somebody in taxes? And so really no harm to getting that estimate and presenting it to somebody. And that way, even if they don't need it this year, they have that for decision making purposes in the future. That's part of tax planning to say, OK, this year, my taxes are taken care of. But next year might be a really big tax. Jason Hull (25:18) Yes. Got it. And so the property manager could initiate this process for each of their properties. They could. Okay, got it. Very cool. Well, Dan, I appreciate you coming on the show. Glad we have this cool DoorGrow page. That was a nice surprise set up. Jason Hull (25:58) Anything else you want to Dan Boyd (26:00) I don't think so, other than I hope we can help all of your audience save their clients tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes this year, next year and beyond so that they've got more money to buy more properties and just continue to grow their portfolios. Jason Hull (26:14) Yeah, that would be some nice surprises. I don't think anybody's clients would complain about that. So, all right. Appreciate you being here on the DoorGrow show, Dan. All right. So if you've ever felt stuck or stagnant in your property management business and you want to take it to the next level, reach out to us at DoorGrow dot com. Also join our free Facebook community. It is just for property management business owners at DoorGrow club dot com. And if you would like to get the best ideas in property management, join our newsletter. Dan Boyd (26:19) I don't think so. You bet. Thank you, Jason. Jason Hull (26:43) by going to doorgrow.com slash subscribe. And if you found this episode even a little bit helpful, don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review or a positive comment on whatever channel that you saw or heard this on, we'd really appreciate it. And until next time, remember the slowest path to growth is to do it alone. So let's grow together. Bye everyone.