Ep 57: Better a Radical than a Pushover with Pramila Jayapal

Ep 57: Better a Radical than a Pushover with Pramila Jayapal

This week Nora and Marcus speak with Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal about what Democrats keep getting wrong, why "moderation" so often means surrendering before the fight starts, and whether the left might finally be done asking permission to act like it has a spine. We talk Medicare for All, immigration, trans rights, the Epstein files, and the political class's ongoing refusal to understand that people would, in fact, like to afford housing and remain in possession of their civil rights. Jayapal makes the case for a Democratic Party that actually delivers, a politics rooted in moral clarity rather than consultant leftovers, and a version of hope that feels less Hallmark card, more organized resistance. Mentioned in the episode: Leftward wave in Democratic primaries! [https://www.nytimes.com/live/2026/06/23/nyregion/primary-elections-ny-maryland-utah] | 21st Century Road to Housing vs. Save America Acts [https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/trump-scraps-housing-bill-signing-to-pressure-senate-gop-on-save-act] | NYT Siena poll about Dems & socialism [https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2026/05/21/polls/times-siena-poll-democrats-crosstabs.html] | Seattle Pride [https://seattlepride.org/] | Seattle broke two public transit records last week [https://www.theurbanist.org/seattle-light-rail-and-scootershare-smash-ridership-records-buoyed-by-friday-world-cup-match/] | Seattle's waterfront park [https://monocle.com/design/seattle-waterfront-park-by-field-operations/] Support the pod: Donate here [https://venmo.com/u/inthemeanwhilepodcast] to support In The Meanwhile Follow us: Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/inthemeanwhilepodcast] | BlueSky [https://bsky.app/profile/inthemeanwhile.bsky.social] | Website [https://www.inthe-meanwhile.com/] Read Nora and Marcus's Books: Crowded Out: [https://bookshop.org/a/113982/9780262548038] The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise [https://bookshop.org/a/113982/9781609441432] Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. Links to bookshop.org [http://bookshop.org] are affiliate links.

Ep 56: The Border Between Fear and Humanity with Father Ray Riding

This week on In the Meanwhile, while billionaires flirt with trillionaire status, ICE detention centers face hunger strikes, and America's political class continues its speedrun through late-stage empire, we sit down with someone doing something radically unfashionable: caring about people. Father Ray Riding is a 76-year-old Catholic missionary who has spent the last two years accompanying migrants along the U.S.-Mexico border. From leaving water in the desert to visiting detention centers and supporting families facing deportation, Father Ray bears witness to the human stories too often reduced to political talking points. In a conversation about cruelty, faith, solidarity, and hope, he shares what he has seen, why he believes love is stronger than hate, and what it means to stand with people in their darkest moments. It's a moving reminder that behind every immigration debate is a human being whose story deserves to be heard. Mentioned in the episode: Obama Center Opening Ceremony [https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/music/2026/06/18/obama-center-opening-performances-performers-list/90607149007/] | Reflecting Pool turning green [https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jun/18/reflecting-pool-algae-trump-administration-iran-war] | New World Screwworm [https://www.huffpost.com/entry/screwworm-program-cuts-usaid-doge-elon-musk_n_6a220505e4b0a18aef0b1edf] | Delaney Hall Hunger Strike [https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/hundreds-at-delaney-hall-join-detained-people-across-country-in-hunger-strike-against-inhumane-conditions] | MN Indictments [https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jun/16/minnesota-immigration-enforcement-conspiracy-charges] | $96.7 B contribution to economy by undocumented immigrants [https://itep.org/undocumented-immigrants-taxes-2024/] | Knicks win! [https://www.nytimes.com/2026/06/18/nyregion/knicks-championship-parade-celebration-nyc.html] | Kansas marching band plays Algerian national anthem [https://abcnews.com/GMA/Living/kansas-town-adopts-algerian-team-world-cup/story?id=133955004] | More about Father Ray: https://www.thebeliever.net/only-god-will-judge-us/ [https://www.thebeliever.net/only-god-will-judge-us/] Support the pod: Donate here [https://venmo.com/u/inthemeanwhilepodcast] to support In The Meanwhile Follow us: Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/inthemeanwhilepodcast] | BlueSky [https://bsky.app/profile/inthemeanwhile.bsky.social] | Website [https://www.inthe-meanwhile.com/] Read Nora and Marcus's Books: Crowded Out: [https://bookshop.org/a/113982/9780262548038] The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise [https://bookshop.org/a/113982/9781609441432] Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. Links to bookshop.org [http://bookshop.org] are affiliate links.

Ep 55: The Bill Chill vs. the Epstein Files with Tim Schwab (re-air)

It's been another "37-day week" in America, and In The Meanwhile is doing what it does best: refusing to let the chaos set the agenda. On the heels of Bill Gates' Congressional appearance to be questioned about his role in the Epstein Files, we revisit a prescient conversation from March with Tim Schwab, investigative journalist and author of The Bill Gates Problem. Schwab walks us through the Gates - Epstein connections, and how these implicate not just the two men, but the hyper powerful institutions that burnished their reputations. Schwab reveals the dangerous alchemy of extreme wealth alongside the "good billionaire" mythology. He breaks down why Gates' "I didn't know" era doesn't pass the smell test, how philanthropy can function as reputation-laundering and influence-buying, and why the so-called "Bill Chill" keeps Seattle institutions and media hesitant to speak plainly, even when the story is screaming. Mentioned in the episode: As Congress probes Gates about Epstein, the Walls Close in [https://timschwab.substack.com/p/as-congress-probes-gates-about-epstein] | Is Bill Gates in the Epstein files? Probably [https://timschwab.substack.com/p/is-bill-gates-in-the-epstein-files] | The Epstein files should end Bill Gates's philanthropic career [https://timschwab.substack.com/p/the-epstein-files-should-end-bill] | Erasing Gates Seattle's Favorite Philanthropist Faces Campus Reality Check from UW Student [https://www.thestranger.com/news/2026/02/27/80497745/erasing-gates] | NYT Opinion: This Summer, Students From Hundreds of Colleges Will Heed One Urgent Call [https://www.nytimes.com/2026/03/04/opinion/elections-college-crisis-democracy-summer.html] | Half of Americans want to Abolish ICE [https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/mar/04/ice-trump-immigration-poll] More from Tim Schwab: Tim Schwab on Substack [https://substack.com/@timschwab] | On X [https://x.com/TimothyWSchwab/status/2027475378982228268] | on BlueSky [https://bsky.app/profile/timschwab.bsky.social/post/3mfuizftx6c2j] | The Bill Gates Problem [https://bookshop.org/a/113982/9781250850102] | on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7433239167872184320/] Support the pod: Donate here [https://venmo.com/u/inthemeanwhilepodcast] to support In The Meanwhile Follow us: Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/inthemeanwhilepodcast] | BlueSky [https://bsky.app/profile/inthemeanwhile.bsky.social] | Website [https://www.inthe-meanwhile.com/] Read Nora and Marcus's Books: Crowded Out: [https://bookshop.org/a/113982/9780262548038] The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise [https://bookshop.org/a/113982/9781609441432] Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. Links to bookshop.org [http://bookshop.org] are affiliate links.

Ep 54: The Art of Calling in with Loretta J. Ross

This week on In The Meanwhile, Marcus sits down with Loretta J. Ross — activist, MacArthur Fellow, Smith College professor, and one of the most clear-eyed movement builders of the last five decades — to talk about her new book, Calling In: How to Start Making Change with Those You'd Rather Cancel. The conversation couldn't be more timely. With Democrats tearing each other apart in the run-up to the midterms and the left running on indignant anger, Ross offers something rarer and more useful than a hot take. From deprogramming white supremacists to teaching convicted rapists feminist principles, she's spent her career finding ways to reach people in order to build coalitions that win. Together, she and Marcus dig into the seductive pull of call-out culture, why purity politics is losing us elections we should be winning, and what it actually looks like to hold people accountable — with compassion, with strategy, and without burning your coalition to the ground. Along the way, Ross gives us a pragmatic roadmap for winning, using the "truth, time, evidence and history" we already have on our side. It's a recipe for justice borne from a lifetime of hard-won wisdom, and it couldn't be more necessary for the moment we're in. NOTE: this episode refers to sexual assault and rape. Please take care while listening. Mentioned in the episode: Trump bday party [https://www.npr.org/2026/05/31/nx-s1-5841889/trump-america-250-state-fair-artists-rally] | Blanche canceled crybaby fund [https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/06/defeats-trumps-birthday/687393/] | WaPost Irizarry [https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2026/06/02/pentagon-hires-convicted-jan-6-rioter-sensitive-counterterrorism-job/] | Pulte BB&B conspiracy theories [https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/trump-bill-pulte-housing-bbby-meme-stock-1235295044/] | Bedbugs invade administration [https://newrepublic.com/post/211269/federal-agency-agriculture-invasive-bugs-bedbugs] | Charles Douglas III episode [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-24-the-long-game-of-democracy-with-charles-douglas-iii/id1820256669?i=1000735692020] | Loretta Ross [https://lorettajross.com/] | Calling In: How to Start Making Change with Those You'd Rather Cancel [https://bookshop.org/a/113982/9781982190798] | 13th (2016) [https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5895028/] | Pancreatic cancer treatment breakthrough [https://www.thebulwark.com/p/cancer-research-machine-trump-is-gutting-just-delivered-big-breakthrough-pancreatic-cancer-daraxonrasib] | The Sheltering Sky [https://bookshop.org/a/113982/9780060834821] Support the pod: Donate here [https://venmo.com/u/inthemeanwhilepodcast] to support In The Meanwhile Follow us: Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/inthemeanwhilepodcast] | BlueSky [https://bsky.app/profile/inthemeanwhile.bsky.social] | Website [https://www.inthe-meanwhile.com/] Read Nora and Marcus's Books: Crowded Out: [https://bookshop.org/a/113982/9780262548038] The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise [https://bookshop.org/a/113982/9781609441432] Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. Links to bookshop.org [http://bookshop.org] are affiliate links.

Ep 53: A Politics of Grace with Jaelynn Scott

This week on In The Meanwhile, Marcus and Nora spiral from Mark Zuckerberg's $300 million "Launch Pad" yacht docking in Seattle, conveniently timed with 1,400 local layoffs, into a searching, deeply human conversation with housing advocate and legislative candidate Jaelynn Scott. Together, they unpack trans safety, housing justice, coalition-building, and what it means to practice 'grace in the streets' while communities face escalating political attacks. Along the way, Jaelynn offers a powerful vision of leadership rooted not in optics or ambition, but in care, urgency, and the belief that government should actually protect the people most vulnerable to harm. This episode offers all of us a view of what it looks like to actually govern like people's lives matter. Mentioned in the episode: Zuckerberg's dumb yacht [https://www.seattletimes.com/business/zuckerbergs-superyacht-arrives-in-seattle-the-same-day-meta-laid-off-1400-local-employees/] | Careless People [https://bookshop.org/a/113982/9781250391230] | The Social Network (2010) [https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1285016/] | US justice department launches criminal investigation into Trump accuser E Jean Carroll [https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyp77jd407o] | City of Seattle poised to declare a civil emergency for LGBTQIA+ refugees fleeing red states [https://www.sgn.org/story/166221] | No New Youth Jail [https://nonewyouthjail.com/] | Estelita's Library [https://estelitaslibrary.org/] | Fannie Lou Hamer [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fannie_Lou_Hamer] | Juniper Blessing [https://www.kuow.org/stories/juniper-blessing-uw-student-fatally-stabbed-remembered-for-her-magnificent-voice] | Graystar [https://www.dailyuw.com/article/nordheim-court-residents-say-complex-lacks-proper-maintenance-causing-security-concerns-20260511] | Republicans in South Carolina defy Trump to reject voting map changes [https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgkppvl4e3ko] | The Needling: Millionaires Tax Erases Only Advantage of Living in Sad, Barren Wasteland [https://theneedling.com/2026/04/21/millionaires-tax-erases-only-reason-to-live-in-barren-wasteland/] Support the pod: Donate here [https://venmo.com/u/inthemeanwhilepodcast] to support In The Meanwhile Follow us: Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/inthemeanwhilepodcast] | BlueSky [https://bsky.app/profile/inthemeanwhile.bsky.social] | Website [https://www.inthe-meanwhile.com/] Read Nora and Marcus's Books: Crowded Out: [https://bookshop.org/a/113982/9780262548038] The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise [https://bookshop.org/a/113982/9781609441432] Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. Links to bookshop.org [http://bookshop.org] are affiliate links.