S2E10 // Where There Are Dragons: Depth Psychology in the Life of Faith and Healing (Guest: Dr. Pia Chaudhari Cameron)

S2E10 // Where There Are Dragons: Depth Psychology in the Life of Faith and Healing (Guest: Dr. Pia Chaudhari Cameron)

Today we sit down with Dr. Pia Chaudhari Cameron about the place of the unconscious in the life of faith and healing. We also discuss the poem “Wild Geese” by Mary Oliver. Pia holds a doctorate in theology from the department of Psychiatry & Religion at Union Theological Seminary in New York. She is the author of Dynamis of Healing; Patristic Theology and the Psyche (Fordham University Press 2019), as well as numerous articles, including on marriage and theosis, the unconscious and prayer, and healing and the Theotokos. Her research interests include theological anthropology, depth psychology, processes of healing, the feminine, aesthetics and beauty. She has trained and worked extensively in Jungian psychoanalysis. Listen on Substack [https://recreationpodcast.substack.com/], Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/51a6R7Y458avlPXu4qiyAn], Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/re-creation-podcast/id1834934428], or RSS [https://api.substack.com/feed/podcast/5674348/private/9ba98e93-c467-47b0-840e-a99cde40bdb6.rss] wherever you get podcasts. In an amazing synchronicity, Pia was visiting our little Ontario city the week before we were scheduled to record this interview and we got to have coffee with her in person! In this episode, we talk about: * Depth psychology, an approach to therapy that takes the unconscious into account * How does the unconscious fit into Eastern Christian understandings of what it means to be human? * Ann Belford Ulanov’s contributions to depth psychology into conversation with Christian spiritual frameworks * The paradoxical tension between suffering and the potential for deeper meaning, and the ongoing dialogue between conscious and unconscious, ego and self, as the place where healing can begin * True aliveness requires a proper, life-giving connection with our human will rather rather than the abolition of it * Eros as a love that propels us out of and beyond our selves toward the other * The difference between the felt experiences of jealousy and envy, and the dangers of moralizing them in unhelpful ways * Poem: “Wild Geese” [https://allpoetry.com/poem/15374223-Wild-geese-by-Mary-J-Oliver] by Mary Oliver Resources and links mentioned: * Pia Chaudhari Cameron, Dynamis of Healing: Patristic Theology and the Psyche (Fordham University Press, 2019) * Quote from St. Macarius: “The heart is a little vessel. And yet there are dragons, and there are lions, the poisonous beasts, and all the treasures of wickedness, and there are rugged ways, and precipices. In like manner there is GOD, there are the angels; there is the life and the kingdom; there is the light, there are the treasures of grace: there are all things.” (Spiritual Homilies 18.9) * Ann Belford Ulanov, The Unshuttered Heart: Opening Aliveness/Deadness in the Self (Abingdon Press, 2007) * David Bentley Hart, The Beauty of the Infinite: The Aesthetics of Christian Truth (Eerdmans, 2003) * Icon of the Creation of the Plants [https://saintpaulsicons.com/product/creation-of-the-plants-roumanian-f111/] (15th c., Monastery of Sucevita, Romania) * All music featured on this podcast is used in accordance with Creative Commons licenses. For a full list of the tracks we use, visit https://recreationpodcast.substack.com/p/music-featured-in-our-episodes [https://recreationpodcast.substack.com/p/music-featured-in-our-episodes] Let’s Connect: * Nicole: www.nicoleroccas.com [http://www.nicoleroccas.com] * Eleni: www.eleniopperwallcounselling.com [https://www.eleniopperwallcounselling.com/] * Subscribe to our Substack for show notes + behind-the-scenes reflections: Re-Creation is a podcast about trauma, faith, and mental health from an Orthodox Christian perspective. Hosts Nicole Roccas, a trauma-informed coach and author, and Eleni Opperwall, a registered therapist, explore what it means to be human after trauma through honest and hopeful conversations. Drawing on Orthodox tradition, professional insights, and personal stories, they share reflections to support healing, wholeness, and spiritual growth. Disclaimer:This podcast is for educational purposes only and not a substitute for professional mental health care. Get full access to The Re-Creation Podcast at recreationpodcast.substack.com/subscribe [https://recreationpodcast.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_4]

S2E9 // Wolves in Shepherds' Clothes: Clergy Sexual Abuse in the Orthodox Church (Guest: Dr. Hermina Nedelescu)

Heads up: this episode discusses sexual abuse and spiritual abuse within the Church. Please be kind to yourself. Today we sit down with neuroscientist Dr. Hermina Nedelescu for a wide-ranging and deeply important conversation about clergy sexual abuse, spiritual abuse, institutional complicity, and what healing and accountability might look like within the Orthodox Church. We discuss the neurological relationship between abuse and addiction, and why traumatic experiences often shape behaviors in ways that are misunderstood morally, pastorally, and spiritually. Hermina also shares about her path toward advocacy for survivors of clergy sexual abuse and the founding of Prosopon Healing, an organization devoted to survivor support, education, accountability, and cultural change within Orthodox contexts. Listen on Substack [https://recreationpodcast.substack.com/], Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/51a6R7Y458avlPXu4qiyAn], Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/re-creation-podcast/id1834934428], or RSS [https://api.substack.com/feed/podcast/5674348/private/9ba98e93-c467-47b0-840e-a99cde40bdb6.rss] wherever you get podcasts. We also talk about: * Neuroscience and the evolving theological conversation on what it means to be human * The neurological connections between abuse and addictions * Hermina’s path to advocacy for survivors of clergy sexual abuse and the founding of Prosopon Healing * Why is disclosure so extraordinarily difficult for sexual abuse survivors * How does the narrative of “one bad apple” diminish our solidarity and shared responsibility to prevent abuse and protect each other * Spiritual abuse and how it paves the way for other kinds of abuse, including sexual abuse, within church communities * The use of power in church communities and how Christ described the appropriate use of power * “Seeing the plank” in our own eye – Becoming more aware to our own complicity and choosing differently Resources and links mentioned: * Nicole Lyon Roccas, “Not Everything is Beneficial: Fr. Seraphim Rose and the Nature of Complicity [https://recreationpodcast.substack.com/p/not-everything-is-beneficial-fr-seraphim]” (May 12, 2026) * Article: Emily M. Hicks et al., “Decoding the Transcriptomic Signatures of Psychological Trauma in Human Cortex and Amygdala,” October 23, 2024, https://doi.org/10.1101/2024.10.23.619681 [https://doi.org/10.1101/2024.10.23.619681]. * Prosopon Healing: https://www.prosoponhealing.com/ [https://www.prosoponhealing.com/] * The Betrayal Bond by Patrick Carnes https://www.drpatrickcarnes.com/the-betrayal-bond [https://www.drpatrickcarnes.com/the-betrayal-bond] * The Milgram Experiments https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment] * “Descent Into Light” Podcast by the Sisters of the Little Way https://www.sistersofthelittleway.com/podcast [https://www.sistersofthelittleway.com/podcast] * Predators by Anna Salter https://enoughabuse.org/get-the-facts/predators-pedophiles-rapists-and-other-sex-offenders/ [https://enoughabuse.org/get-the-facts/predators-pedophiles-rapists-and-other-sex-offenders/] * Poem: Please Call Me By My True Names By Thich Nhat Hanh [https://meredithsuewillis.com/Call%20Me%20By%20My%20True%20Name%20Thich%20Nhat%20Hanh.pdf] Other resources about spiritual abuse and clergy sexual abuse: Some of these resources pertain to these issues in broader Christian or religious contexts. Those produced by/for Orthodox contexts are listed first and marked with an asterisk (*). * “Resources for Survivors.” Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests (SNAP) website. (https://snapnetwork.org/resources-for-survivors/ [https://snapnetwork.org/resources-for-survivors/]). May 11, 2026.* * “Services for Survivors [https://www.prosoponhealing.com/services-7-1],” Prosopon Healing.* * “Ongoing Research: Clergy-Perpetrated Sexual Abuse in the Orthodox Church,” [https://www.prosoponhealing.com/single-project]Prosopon Healing (2024).* * “Parish Ministry Resources - When The Unspeakable Happens,” [https://www.oca.org/parish-ministry/parishdevelopment/when-the-unspeakable-happens] Ellen Gvosdev, OCA.org (1994).* * For Orthodox clergy: “Role of Leadership in Clergy Sexual Misconduct Cases.” [https://www.prosoponhealing.com/services-7]Prosopon Healing.* * “The Prevalence of Child Sexual Abuse Perpetrated by Leaders or Other Adults in Religious Organizations in Australia,” [https://doi.org/10.1016/j.chiabu.2024.106946]Gabrielle R. Hunt et al., Child Abuse & Neglect 155 (September 2024). * Redeeming Power: Understanding Authority and Abuse in the Church, Diane Langberg (2020). * “Researchers Reveal Patterns of Sexual Abuse in Religious Settings,” [https://www.ualberta.ca/en/folio/2020/08/researchers-reveal-patterns-of-sexual-abuse-in-religious-settings.html] Ualberta.ca (2020). * Suffering and the Heart of God: How Trauma Destroys and Christ Restores, Diane Langberg (2015). * “What Is Clergy Sexual Misconduct? - MCC Abuse Response & Prevention,” [https://abuseresponseandprevention.ca/clergy-sexual-misconduct/what-is-clergy-sexual-misconduct/]Abuse Response & Prevention (March 6, 2025). All music featured on this podcast is used in accordance with Creative Commons licenses. For a full list of the tracks we use, visit https://recreationpodcast.substack.com/p/music-featured-in-our-episodes [https://recreationpodcast.substack.com/p/music-featured-in-our-episodes] Connnect with Nicole and Eleni: * Find Nicole on Substack Nicole M. Lyon Roccas [https://substack.com/profile/35887058-nicole-m-lyon-roccas] or her website (www.nicoleroccas.com [http://www.nicoleroccas.com]) * Find Eleni at https://www.eleniopperwallcounselling.com/ [https://www.eleniopperwallcounselling.com/] * Subscribe to our Substack [https://recreationpodcast.substack.com/]for show notes + behind-the-scenes reflections The Re-Creation podcast is a show about trauma, faith, and mental health from an Orthodox Christian perspective. Hosts Nicole Roccas, a trauma-informed coach and author, and Eleni Opperwall, a registered therapist, explore what it means to be human after trauma through honest and hopeful conversations. Drawing on Orthodox tradition, professional insights, and personal stories, they share reflections to support healing, wholeness, and spiritual growth. Disclaimer:This podcast is for educational purposes only and not a substitute for professional mental health care. Get full access to The Re-Creation Podcast at recreationpodcast.substack.com/subscribe [https://recreationpodcast.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_4]

S2E8 // "Tell the Bees" PT 2: What Animals Know and We've Forgotten (Dr. Jesse Alexis Vallecillo)

What can we learn from veterinary science about healing the fragmentation between humanity and creation? In the second installment of this two-part episode (Part 1 here [https://recreationpodcast.substack.com/p/s2e7-tell-the-bees-what-animals-know]), we sit down with Jesse Alexis Blum Vallecillo, a veterinary doctor based in Arizona, to discuss how her work gives her a unique vantage point on the broken and blessed interrelationships between humanity, creation, and all the creatures God has made to play therein. Re-Creation is a podcast about trauma, faith, and mental health from an Orthodox Christian perspective. Hosts Nicole Roccas, a trauma-informed coach and author, and Eleni Opperwall, a registered therapist, explore what it means to be human after trauma through honest and hopeful conversations. Drawing on Orthodox tradition, professional insights, and personal stories, they share reflections to support healing, wholeness, and spiritual growth. Listen on Substack [https://recreationpodcast.substack.com/], Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/51a6R7Y458avlPXu4qiyAn], Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/re-creation-podcast/id1834934428], or RSS [https://api.substack.com/feed/podcast/5674348/private/9ba98e93-c467-47b0-840e-a99cde40bdb6.rss] wherever you get podcasts. In this episode, we talk about: * How Jesse wound up an Orthodox Christian and practicing veterinary doctor * The mysterious nature of how creation unfolded in the beginning * Telling the bees and other ancient traditions that remind us of man’s interrconnection with other creatures * Examples of brokenness in the behaviour patterns of animals (and their human caretakers) and what to do with them emotionally and spiritually * Examples of how humans have laboured lovingly with animals to make the most of God’s gift of creation Other resources and links mentioned: * Nicole’s Weekly Writing Circle (Spring/Summer 2026): https://nicoleroccas.gumroad.com/l/iyqurh [https://nicoleroccas.gumroad.com/l/iyqurh] * Poem: “The Two-headed Calf,” [https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/1626022/the-two-headed-calf]by Laura Gilpin * All music featured on this podcast is used in accordance with Creative Commons licenses. For a full list of the tracks we use, visit https://recreationpodcast.substack.com/p/music-featured-in-our-episodes [https://recreationpodcast.substack.com/p/music-featured-in-our-episodes] Let’s Connect: Find Nicole at www.nicoleroccas.com [http://www.nicoleroccas.com/] Find Eleni at www.eleniopperwallcounselling.com [http://www.eleniopperwallcounselling.com/] Subscribe to our Substack for show notes + behind-the-scenes reflections: Disclaimer:This podcast is for educational purposes only and not a substitute for professional mental health care. Get full access to The Re-Creation Podcast at recreationpodcast.substack.com/subscribe [https://recreationpodcast.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_4]

S2E7 // "Tell the Bees" PT 1: What Animals Know and We've Forgotten (Dr. Jesse Alexis Vallecillo)

What can we learn from veterinary science about healing the fragmentation between humanity and creation? In this two-part episode, we sit down with Jesse Alexis Blum Vallecillo, a veterinary doctor based in Arizona, to discuss how her work gives her a unique vantage point on the broken and blessed interrelationships between humanity, creation, and all the creatures God has made to play therein. Re-Creation is a podcast about trauma, faith, and mental health from an Orthodox Christian perspective. Hosts Nicole Roccas, a trauma-informed coach and author, and Eleni Opperwall, a registered therapist, explore what it means to be human after trauma through honest and hopeful conversations. Drawing on Orthodox tradition, professional insights, and personal stories, they share reflections to support healing, wholeness, and spiritual growth. Listen on Substack [https://recreationpodcast.substack.com/], Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/51a6R7Y458avlPXu4qiyAn], Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/re-creation-podcast/id1834934428], or RSS [https://api.substack.com/feed/podcast/5674348/private/9ba98e93-c467-47b0-840e-a99cde40bdb6.rss] wherever you get podcasts. In this episode, we talk about: * How Jesse wound up an Orthodox Christian and practicing veterinary doctor * The mysterious nature of how creation unfolded in the beginning * Telling the bees and other ancient traditions that remind us of man’s interrconnection with other creatures * Examples of brokenness in the behaviour patterns of animals (and their human caretakers) and what to do with them emotionally and spiritually * Examples of how humans have laboured lovingly with animals to make the most of God’s gift of creation Other resources and links mentioned: * Nicole’s Weekly Writing Circle (Spring/Summer 2026): https://nicoleroccas.gumroad.com/l/iyqurh [https://nicoleroccas.gumroad.com/l/iyqurh] * Inside of a Dog: What Dogs See, Smell, and Know, by Alexandra Horowitz * Temple Grandin (mentioned) has many books on the intersection of autism, neurodivergence in humans, and animal behaviouralism. A good pace to start is Animals Make Us Human: Creating the Best Life for Animals (2010) or Thinking in Pictures: My Life with Autism (1995) * All Creatures Great and Small book series, James Herriot (1970-1992) * All music featured on this podcast is used in accordance with Creative Commons licenses. For a full list of the tracks we use, visit https://recreationpodcast.substack.com/p/music-featured-in-our-episodes [https://recreationpodcast.substack.com/p/music-featured-in-our-episodes] Let’s Connect: Find Nicole at www.nicoleroccas.com [http://www.nicoleroccas.com] Find Eleni at www.eleniopperwallcounselling.com [http://www.eleniopperwallcounselling.com] Subscribe to our Substack for show notes + behind-the-scenes reflections: Disclaimer:This podcast is for educational purposes only and not a substitute for professional mental health care. Get full access to The Re-Creation Podcast at recreationpodcast.substack.com/subscribe [https://recreationpodcast.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_4]

S2E6 // More Humanity, Not Less: Ecology, Anxiety, and the Healing of Creation (Dr. Elizabeth Theokritoff)

Unseasonable weather patterns, natural disasters, and accelerating climate shifts are increasingly common. Alongside these changes, more people are experiencing environmental anxiety and even ecological trauma. Contemporary environmental discourses can sometimes frame human beings as little more than a parasite on the planet. One notorious bumper even put it bluntly: “Care for the earth—commit suicide!” But what if the way forward requires more humanity rather than less? What if healing our fragmented relationship with the natural world begins with reclaiming what it truly means to be human creatures living in communion with God and His creation? In this episode, we explore the fragmented relationship between humanity and the environment with Dr. Elizabeth Theokritoff, a theological writer and translator whose work sits at the intersection of Orthodox theology, liturgy, and ecology. Re-Creation is a podcast about trauma, faith, and mental health from an Orthodox Christian perspective. Hosts Nicole Roccas, a trauma-informed coach and author, and Eleni Opperwall, a registered therapist, explore what it means to be human after trauma through honest and hopeful conversations. Drawing on Orthodox tradition, professional insights, and personal stories, they share reflections to support healing, wholeness, and spiritual growth. Listen on Substack [https://recreationpodcast.substack.com/], Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/51a6R7Y458avlPXu4qiyAn], Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/re-creation-podcast/id1834934428], or RSS [https://api.substack.com/feed/podcast/5674348/private/9ba98e93-c467-47b0-840e-a99cde40bdb6.rss] wherever you get podcasts. In this episode, we talk about: * Eden as eschatology—what it was like in the beginning according to various patristic views * What we can learn from monastic communities about creation care and stewardship * Different threads of ancient Christian tradition regarding human connection with home and creation—indigeneity (dwelling in the same place as your ancestors lived) vs. the asceticism of exile * Ecological trauma, environmental anxiety, and Christian anthropology * Why does a theological approach to ecology matter to us as Christians More about Dr. Elizabeth Theokritoff’s work: * Website: https://saltalas.com/members/dr-elizabeth-theokritoff/ [https://saltalas.com/members/dr-elizabeth-theokritoff/] * Living in God’s Creation: Orthodox Perspectives on Ecology [https://svspress.com/living-in-gods-creation-orthodox-perspectives-on-ecology/?srsltid=AfmBOooFkTuLgd9dFVmAQjzN0ELcOwDuyps9WvmyKM6dr-KDr4jLafoA] (SVS, 2009) * Article: Elizabeth Theokritoff, “Keeping This Place: Contemplative Vision and Ecological Living as Christian Witness: An Orthodox View [https://brill.com/downloadpdf/view/journals/mist/41/3/article-p388_11.pdf],” Mission Studies 41 (2024), 388–411. * “Keeping This Place: An Interview with Dr. Elizabeth Theokritoff [https://holymyrrhbearers.com/uploaded-documents/HMM_Essays_Notes_22_2_e-version.pdf],” Holy Myrrhbearers Monastery’s Essays & Notes 22-2 (Fall 2025), 7-11. Other resources and links mentioned: * John Zizioulas, Remembering the Future: Toward an Eschatological Ontology (Sebastian Press, 2023) * Olivier Clement, On Human Being: A Spiritual Anthropology (New City Press, 2002) * Chrysopigi (Golden Font) Convent [https://orthodoxcrete.com/en/places/monastery-of-chrysopigi/] (Chania, Crete) * Monastery of Timios Prodromos [https://www.monastiria.gr/monastery-of-timios-prodromos-anatoli-of-larisa/?lang=en](Anatoli of Larissa, Greece) * Gerard Manley Hopkins, “As Kingfishers Catch Fire [https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44389/as-kingfishers-catch-fire]” * All music featured on this podcast is used in accordance with Creative Commons licenses. For a full list of the tracks we use, visit https://recreationpodcast.substack.com/p/music-featured-in-our-episodes [https://recreationpodcast.substack.com/p/music-featured-in-our-episodes] Let’s Connect: Find Nicole at www.nicoleroccas.com [http://www.nicoleroccas.com] Find Eleni at www.eleniopperwallcounselling.com [http://www.eleniopperwallcounselling.com] Subscribe to our Substack for show notes + behind-the-scenes reflections: Disclaimer:This podcast is for educational purposes only and not a substitute for professional mental health care. Get full access to The Re-Creation Podcast at recreationpodcast.substack.com/subscribe [https://recreationpodcast.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_4]