E176 Richard Kelly & Robert Guest: Britain Is Running Out of Trees

E176 Richard Kelly & Robert Guest: Britain Is Running Out of Trees

Richard Kelly and Robert Guest were employees 63 and 64 at Foresight. They built a £150 million portfolio in 12 months, took it public on the London Stock Exchange during COP26, watched interest rates destroy their share price through no fault of their own, delisted — and then rebuilt. Within months of going private, their three biggest shareholders rolled straight back in. That's not a recovery story. That's a vote of confidence in people. This is one of the most complete journeys Second Nature has hosted: from internal innovation lab to IPO, from listed markets to take-private, from 50 forests to nearly 100 assets across 31,000 hectares — and 12.5 million trees in the ground. The UK imports 80% of its timber. It's the second largest net importer in the world, behind only China. Richard and Robert are quietly building the answer to that — and they haven't even started talking about carbon yet. We get into the reality of raising capital in a market that was moving against you. The emotional cost of doing everything right and still getting punished by macro forces beyond your control.  And how AI is reshaping the due diligence process.

E175 Insurance Round Table: The Market Nobody Talks About

Everyone talks about capital flows into nature. Nobody talks about what has to be true before that capital will move. Insurance isn't a nice-to-have in natural capital markets — it's the load-bearing wall. Without it, the deals don't close, the banks don't lend, the corporates don't buy. With it, you get carbon credits on a balance sheet as assets instead of liabilities. You get BNG units trading like real infrastructure. You get developers who can actually monetise their projects without locking 20% of their value in a buffer forever. This round table brings together three people building that infrastructure from the inside: Natalia Dorfman, CEO of Kita — the world's first specialist carbon and natural capital insurer; Will Butler, CEO of Gaia Sicura — the world's first insurance broker exclusively for nature regeneration; and George Pawley, General Counsel at Oxygen Conservation, who has been placing and stress-testing these policies in the real world since the beginning. Between them, they cover the full chain from project risk to policy placement to legal execution. Rich goes deep on how insurance unlocks capital that nothing else can reach, why buffer pools are a relic from a world before specialist insurers existed, what happens to this market if political risk starts getting priced into BNG, and why AI is simultaneously liberating and terrifying for a sector that runs on expert judgment. The future of natural capital isn't just about planting trees. It's about making those trees insurable.

E174 Ed Thorne & Greg Robson: Relationships Can't Be Automated

Greg Robson and Ed Thorne founded Sand River three years ago with a simple but radical premise: the companies solving the ecological crisis are the best businesses on earth — they just haven't been funded that way. Both came from operational backgrounds. Neither had the next great idea to save nature. What they had was the judgment to find the people who did. This conversation goes deep into how you invest in a market that barely exists yet, what you actually look for in a founder, why valuation is mostly theatre, and what happens when AI — the thing everyone says is terrible for the planet — turns out to be nature's most powerful advocate. Greg draws a line that most people in this space are too cautious to say plainly: if we continue treating nature as infinite and free, and we build an intelligence more sophisticated than ours before we've fixed that, we will have earned what comes next. There's also a genuinely beautiful argument in here about partnership, about the moment you stop doing what you're told is valuable and start doing what you believe is valuable, and about why the best time to get on the playing field is exactly when the problem looks too big to solve.

E173 Tim Christophersen: The $7 Trillion Secret Destroying The Planet

Tim Christophersen had a UN contract running to 2038. Diplomatic passport. Lifetime security. A ringside seat to every major environmental agreement on the planet. He left. That decision tells you something important about where this man thinks the real leverage is — and where it isn't. He's spent 30 years building the architecture the world runs on: the UN Decade on Ecosystem Restoration, the global biodiversity framework, the early scaffolding of nature markets. He's written one of the formative books on nature of our time. And his conclusion, after all of it, is quietly devastating — the frameworks exist, the science exists, the money exists. What's missing is imagination. The ability to picture what abundance actually looked like before we forgot it was ever there. Now at Salesforce, deploying 65 million trees and making the case for a bio-economy that replaces extraction with restoration, Tim is one of the most quietly radical thinkers in the room. This conversation goes to uncomfortable places — the philosophy that stripped nature of its soul, the subsidies spraying gasoline on a burning house, the question of whether governments will ever actually show up, and why the answer might not matter if the right people move fast enough.

E172 David Gerard: Wonder Is a Business Strategy

David Gerard has spent 30 years learning how to make people forget to be cool. From FAO Schwartz at six years old to the highest-rated show in Las Vegas, from Google's marketing floors to coaching Fortune 500 CEOs on stage presence, David has built a career at the intersection of wonder, attention, and human connection — and in an AI world that's automating everything else, that intersection has never been more valuable. Rich and David go deep on what magic actually teaches you about communication, perception, and leadership. Why the best performers — magicians, comedians, F1 drivers — all have one thing in common. Why authenticity is the only moat that AI can't erode. And why the conversation every leader needs to be having right now isn't about technology — it's about presence. This one covers everything from breathwork and breathwork to boardrooms, Darren Brown to data analytics, the Stanford marshmallow test to what it really means to build a career that's entirely, unapologetically you.