The Gray Area with Sean Illing

Open a browser and you can feel it instantly: everything online just feels… worse. Search results that look like ads. Social feeds that you don’t control. Streaming platforms that are packed with ads. Services that used to be free, but are now behind paywalls. It’s not your imagination — it’s enshittification, the process by which good platforms turn bad… and it’s starting to happen outside the internet as well. Sean’s guest today is Cory Doctorow, author of Enshittification: Why Everything Suddenly Got Worse and What to Do About It. They discuss how the web became enshittified, why monopolies are the true engine behind our digital decay, and what it would mean to build a freer, fairer, and more human internet. Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling) Guest: Cory Doctorow [https://pluralistic.net/] (https://x.com/doctorow [https://x.com/doctorow]), author of Enshittification: Why Everything Suddenly Got Worse and What to Do About It. We’d love to hear from you. Tell us what you thought of this episode at tga@voxmail.com or leave a voicemail at 1-800-214-5749. Your comments and questions help us make a better show. And you can watch new episodes of The Gray Area on YouTube. Listen to The Gray Area ad-free by becoming a Vox Member: https://www.vox.com/membersvox.com/members [http://vox.com/members] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

Is America at a tipping point? Sean Illing talks with Barbara Walter, one of the world’s leading experts on violent extremism and domestic terror. She’s the author of How Civil Wars Start [https://bookshop.org/p/books/how-civil-wars-start-and-how-to-stop-them-barbara-f-walter/35f702a0af16f18a?ean=9780593137802&next=t], about how democracies unravel from within, and a professor at UC San Diego’s School of Global Policy and Strategy [https://gps.ucsd.edu/]. Walter talks to Sean about the warning signs she’s seeing in the US, why polarization and party identity become combustible, and what lessons we can draw from other countries. They also discuss what an American civil war might look like in the 21st century, the social and informational dynamics that accelerate breakdown, and whether America still has a path away from the brink. Host: Sean Illing (@SeanIlling [https://x.com/seanilling?lang=en]) Guest: Barbara Walter [https://www.barbarafwalter.com/about], professor at UC San Diego and author of How Civil Wars Start [https://bookshop.org/p/books/how-civil-wars-start-and-how-to-stop-them-barbara-f-walter/35f702a0af16f18a?ean=9780593137802&next=t] We would love to hear from you. To tell us what you thought of this episode, email us at tga@voxmail.com or leave us a voicemail at 1-800-214-5749. Your comments and questions help us make a better show. And you can watch new episodes of The Gray Area on YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyPfkHcW5BI&list=PLJ8cMiYb3G5es0koN0pk4teLvrhbEc7BH]. Listen to The Gray Area ad-free by becoming a Vox Member: vox.com/members [http://vox.com/members] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

We like to think of memory as a record of the past. But that’s not really what it is. Memory doesn’t keep the past — it can also remake it. It stitches fragments into stories, and those stories — true or not — are what we end up calling our life, and sometimes, our collective history. Sean’s guest today is Charan Ranganath, a neuroscientist and author of a book called Why We Remember. The two discuss the strange alchemy of remembering and how the stories our minds create end up creating us. Host: Sean Illing (@SeanIlling [https://x.com/seanilling?lang=en]) Guest: Charan Ranganath, neuroscientist and author of Why We Remember [https://charanranganath.com/] We would love to hear from you. To tell us what we thought of this episode, email us at tga@voxmail.com or leave us a voicemail at 1-800-214-5749. Your comments and questions help us make a better show. And you can watch new episodes of The Gray Area on YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyPfkHcW5BI&list=PLJ8cMiYb3G5es0koN0pk4teLvrhbEc7BH]. Listen to The Gray Area ad-free by becoming a Vox Member: vox.com/members [http://vox.com/members] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

This week, Sean talks with Emily Baker-White, author of Every Screen on the Planet [https://wwnorton.com/books/every-screen-on-the-planet/about-the-book/product-details], about why TikTok feels uniquely addictive, how it turned social media into a push-not-pull entertainment feed, and what happens when human editors inside the company can override the algorithm. A few days after they spoke, TikTok was in the headlines again. So they jumped on a follow-up call to unpack the latest twists in the saga of who will ultimately control the app's US-operations. Host: Sean Illing (@SeanIlling) Guest: Emily Baker-White, reporter and author of Every Screen on the Planet: The War Over TikTok [https://wwnorton.com/books/every-screen-on-the-planet/about-the-book/product-details] The Gray Area has been nominated for a Signal Listener’s Choice Award. Vote for The Gray Area here: https://vote.signalaward.com/PublicVoting#/2025/shows/genre/thought-leadership [https://vote.signalaward.com/PublicVoting#/2025/shows/genre/thought-leadership] We’d love to hear from you. Email us at tga@voxmail.com or leave a voicemail at 1-800-214-5749. Your questions and feedback help us make a better show. Watch full episodes of The Gray Area on YouTube [https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJ8cMiYb3G5es0koN0pk4teLvrhbEc7BH&feature=shared]. Listen ad-free by becoming a Vox Member: vox.com/members [http://vox.com/members] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

Bill McKibben has spent four decades warning us about climate change. Much of what he predicted has come true. And yet, his new book Here Comes the Sun is more hopeful than you might expect. That’s because, for the first time, we have a genuine alternative: Solar and wind energy are now the cheapest, fastest-growing sources of power on Earth. The revolution has already begun. This week, Sean is joined by McKibben to talk about the peril and promise of this moment. They explore how close we are to catastrophe, why each fraction of a degree of warming matters, and how the fossil fuel industry is fighting a desperate last stand. They also discuss the politics of energy in the age of Trump, why Texas and Utah may hold surprising lessons, and how cheap, abundant power could transform not just the climate fight but democracy itself. Host: Sean Illing (@SeanIlling) Guest: Bill McKibben, climate activist and author of Here Comes the Sun We’d love to hear from you. Email us at tga@voxmail.com or leave a voicemail at 1-800-214-5749. Your questions and feedback help us make a better show. ⁠⁠ [https://wwnorton.com/books/9781324106036]This episode was made in partnership with Vox's Future Perfect team. Watch full episodes of The Gray Area on YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/@Vox/podcasts]. Listen ad-free by becoming a Vox Member: vox.com/members Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]