Legal Soundings

The Future of CRM in Legal: Intelligence, AI, and What Comes Next | Legal Soundings EP09

CRM has been a fixture in law firms for decades — yet attorney adoption has dropped from 29% to 18% over the past year. Is CRM broken, or are we measuring success the wrong way? In this episode, Zena Applebaum is joined by Laura Saklad (VP, Legal Industry, Intapp) and Sarah Happy (Director, Marketing Technology, Harbor) to unpack where CRM stands today and where agentic AI is taking it next. The conversation moves from why "attorney logins" is the wrong KPI, to what an agentic CRM workflow actually looks like, to the realities of headless CRM in a legal context — and the data, governance, and trust problems that technology alone won't solve. What you'll hear: * Why CRM's biggest problem isn't software — it's data * What a real agentic CRM workflow looks like (and why lateral integration is a killer use case) * Whether attorneys will ever trust auto-populated data (spoiler: they already do, in places) * Headless CRM in legal — hype, reality, and why "headless horseman" isn't a great brand * Why governance is a people problem, not a technology problem * The one piece of advice every firm should hear before investing in CRM in 2026 Guests: * Laura Saklad, Vice President, Legal Industry, Intapp * Sarah Happy, Director, Marketing Technology, Harbor Host: Zena Applebaum, Head of Marketing, Harbor About Legal Soundings: Legal Soundings is Harbor’s podcast exploring how technology, leadership, and innovation are reshaping the business of law. Each episode features a rotating Harbor host and expert voices from across the legal ecosystem.  Learn more about Harbor: https://harborglobal.com [https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqa1VUM2NpUkkyVjNSQkQyMmpyWmRzcVNoUDl4Z3xBQ3Jtc0tsYkp3VXNHejRtMjdRRnRDRndabjJoVFlFa2ZEUFo4TDNEYzNKWXVhY0Q1eFUxV0JIYXJ6bUh3NTV3eVZsQ25YclpjaGYwaTd2V3B5X1hnVW4wdEpCOGRVdlZpTjMweVllMXJmZ1FpN0NqSC12d3hOaw&q=https%3A%2F%2Fharborglobal.com%2F&v=wq-y2y9innE]

The Fight for the Table Is Over. Now What? | Legal Soundings EP08

Legal operations finally won the seat at the table — but the table itself has changed. In this special CGI edition of Legal Soundings, host Lauren Chung is joined by CLOC President & CEO Oyango A. Snell and Organon's Stacy Lettie to unpack the 2026 CLOC/Harbor State of the Industry Report. The conversation moves past the old fight for legitimacy into the harder question: now that legal ops is part of the strategic core, how does it drive enterprise value? They dig into the productivity gap law departments are facing (rising demand, flat budgets, flat headcount), how AI has shifted from theoretical fear to practical force, the metrics GCs should be tracking but mostly aren't, and a candid look at what high-performing law departments will look like three years from now — including which work lawyers will simply stop touching. In this episode: * Why "the fight for the seat at the table" is over * The productivity gap: rising demand against flat resources * AI a year later — what's working vs. what's still aspirational * Benchmarking as a discipline, not an exercise * The metric every GC should track (but most don't) * What legal ops leaders should stop doing immediately Learn more at harborglobal.com [http://harborglobal.com].

Why AI Is the First Technology Lawyers Want | Legal Soundings EP07

Every technology leader in legal has lived through the painful rollout — the tool nobody asked for, the training nobody attended, the adoption curve that flatlined. So what's different about AI? For the first time, lawyers are coming to IT to ask how to integrate it into their practice. The built-in perception of value is already there. In this episode, Jeffrey Roach (Harbor Global) sits down with Evette Pastoriza (CIO, Mayer Brown) and Magdalena Suder (Director of Clients, Markets & Growth Operations, Ashurst) to unpack what that shift really means — and why having eager lawyers doesn't automatically solve the adoption problem. They discuss why "build it, and they will come" still fails, how to sell outcomes instead of systems, the psychological weight of asking lawyers to break workflows they've tested and trusted for years, and how to use AI's gravitational pull to lift adoption of less glamorous (but equally critical) tools. Magdalena closes with a practical three-part framework for any legal tech rollout: Diagnose the real barriers, stakeholder by stakeholder; Design communications tailored to those barriers; and Sustain through champions, measurement, and iteration. Key takeaways: * AI is the first legal technology with built-in perceived value — lawyers see it as non-optional, which is unprecedented * Perception matters more than reality: adoption is behavioral, not technical * Change management should start before the business case, not after go-live * Lawyers resist change not out of stubbornness but because they've carefully built trusted processes — breaking that trust is the real ask * Use AI's momentum to elevate the adoption of other critical but less visible tools (CRM, matter intake, BI) * Magdalena's Diagnose → Design → Sustain framework applies to any rollout, not just AI Learn more about Harbor: harborglobal.com [http://harborglobal.com]

Working with Dinosaurs: Why AI Adoption in Law Is a Perception Problem, Not a Technology Problem | Legal Soundings EP06

The AI tools are more powerful than ever — so why are law firms still struggling to see returns? In this episode, Brooke Daniels is joined by Marcus East (Autodesk; author of Working with Dinosaurs) and Allan Lamkin (Harbor Global CTO, former CIO at Paul Hastings) to dig into the real blockers: culture, process, talent, and the unique challenge of selling change to a profession built on skepticism. They explore why most firms feel behind but aren't, how to find and empower change champions inside practice groups, the messy reality of legal data scattered across iManage, Elite, and O365, and what leaders can do right now to start closing the gap between AI promise and AI payoff. Marcus shares case studies from Lloyd's of London and National Geographic, and Allan breaks down what a practice-group-by-practice-group rollout actually looks like. If you lead technology, innovation, or operations at a law firm or corporate legal department, this one's for you. Key takeaways: * Only ~5% of AI investments are delivering expected ROI (per MIT research) — culture and process are the gap * Lawyers are natural skeptics; adoption requires data-driven proof, practice-group-specific workflows, and internal champions * Democratizing data access is critical but requires leadership courage — especially around fears of disrupting the associate pyramid * The firms that win in 3 years won't just improve productivity — they'll fundamentally re-engineer how they operate * Picking the right technology partner matters more than building everything in-house Subscribe for future episodes wherever you get your podcasts. Learn more about Harbor: harborglobal.com [http://harborglobal.com]

The First 90 Days vs The First 5 Years: Leading Innovation in Law Firms | Legal Soundings EP05

Legal Innovation Is No Longer Optional — It's Expected Host Zena Applebaum talks with Wendy Curtis (Chief Innovation Officer, Orrick) and John Koss (Head of Innovation, AI, E-Data Consulting, Mintz) about leading innovation inside law firms — from day one to long-term impact. Wendy brings 15+ years of building Orrick's innovation function; John is fresh off his first year after transitioning from litigation. They cover the real challenges: change management failures, measuring ROI beyond hours saved, combating tool fatigue, and why law departments are emerging as surprising early AI adopters. Key takeaways: * 92% of law firm COOs say innovation/KM is a 2026 priority * Innovation teams need independence — own budgets, own structure * Change management ownership must be assigned before buying any tool * Measure success by the problem you set out to solve, not hours saved * "Process pros, not tech pros" will unlock AI value * Law departments are becoming early adopters of AI as a business function * One word for 2026: "Hope" (Wendy) and "Confidence" (John) Legal Soundings is the podcast from Harbor.  Learn more: harborglobal.com