Owner To Owner Podcast

Solving the SME Succession Challenge with Employee Ownership | Andrew Clements-EOA

As thousands of Australian small business owners approach retirement in the coming decade, the question of succession looms large.  Selling to a competitor or on the open market are familiar paths, but what about selling to the people who know the business best—the employees? @Andrew Clements [https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-p-clements-5b3a3514/] from @employeeownershipaustralia [https://employeeownership.com.au/] talks about; * The critical differences between traditional share schemes and EOTs,  * How to overcome the regulatory hurdles holding Australia back, and  * Why transitioning ownership to your team can boost productivity and preserve your business legacy. Whether you are looking to retire in five years or simply want to build a more engaged workforce today, this episode provides a clear roadmap for exploring employee ownership. In This Episode, We Cover: The looming SME succession crisis and why traditional exits aren't working for everyone. The fundamental differences between allocated employee share schemes and unallocated EOTs. How overseas markets like the UK and Canada have successfully mainstreamed employee ownership. Why EOTs are a perfect fit for professional service businesses, and how to structure them for asset-heavy businesses like farming. The "tax dodge" stigma and the urgent need for clear ATO guidance and legislative recognition in Australia. How employee ownership drives remarkable productivity and builds stronger local communities. Andrew’s top three actionable tips for founders looking to transition out of their business in the next five years.   TIMELINE: 00:00 Introduction: The Looming SME Succession Challenge  01:12 What's Changed in Employee Ownership in the Last 5 Years?  07:40 Understanding Employee Share Schemes: Allocated vs. Unallocated Plans  14:55 Are EOTs a Genuine Asset Class for Small Business?  21:19 The Push for Legislative Recognition and ATO Guidance  27:39 Building Community and Retaining Local Businesses  31:33 Why Professional Service Businesses are Perfect for EOTs  38:13 Financing the Exit: Staged Sell-Downs and Managing Risk  45:22 Boosting SME Productivity Through Employee Engagement  49:23 Structuring EOTs for Asset-Heavy vs. Low-Capital Businesses  55:46 The Gap in Professional Advisor Awareness  59:28 Top 3 Tips for Founders Retiring in 5 Years  01:01:20 Andrew’s Vision for Simplifying Small Business Regulation About Our Guest: Andrew Clements is the Co-Chair of Employee Ownership Australia (EOA) [https://employeeownership.com.au/], an advocacy group dedicated to facilitating and promoting employee ownership across the country. Andrew is a passionate advocate for reducing regulatory complexity and creating simple, robust succession models for Australian SMEs. Read the full, searchable transcript of this episode here:  https://ownertoownerpodcast.com.au/episodes [https://ownertoownerpodcast.com.au/episodes] Thanks for listening.  Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show. Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes. Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business. michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.au [michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.au] www.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au [www.ownertoowner.com.au]

How Employee Ownership Reshapes Trust, Motivation, and Legacy in Small Business: Monica O’Malley

Important Note for Listeners: This episode contains a discussion regarding mental health and the professional challenges—including suicidal ideation—faced by dental practitioners. We believe these conversations are vital for industry transparency and support. If you or someone you know is experiencing distress, please reach out to one of the following confidential, professional services: Dental Practitioner Support [https://www.dpsupport.org.au/]: A 24/7, independent, and free national support service specifically for dental practitioners, students, and their families. Phone: 1800 377 700. Lifeline Australia [https://www.lifeline.org.au/]: 24/7 crisis support and suicide prevention services. Phone: 13 11 14. Beyond Blue [https://www.beyondblue.org.au/]: 24/7 mental health support and resources for all Australians. Phone: 1300 224 636. The Essential Network (TEN) [https://www.google.com/search?q=https://www.blackdoginstitute.org.au/clinical-resources/the-essential-network/]: Specialized mental health support for health professionals, developed by the Black Dog Institute. Episode Overview: In this episode, we explore the structural and cultural shift of moving a small business toward an employee-owned model. Our guest, Monica O’Malley, shares her journey in restructuring her dental practice, focusing on how this model fosters professional agency, eliminates traditional hierarchical friction, and builds long-term organizational resilience. We discuss the tangible impact of ownership on team motivation and the intentional steps required for leaders to build a lasting, purpose-driven professional legacy. Key Topics Covered: The Case for Shared Agency: Moving beyond top-down management to increase team engagement and problem-solving capabilities. Building Institutional Resilience: How employee ownership acts as a buffer against industry turbulence and "perma-crisis." Cultural Transformation: Practical steps for shifting the internal value system of a firm toward transparency and shared vision. Legacy Planning: Strategies for leaders looking to transition power and ensure the long-term health of their practice.   Thanks for listening.  Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show. Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes. Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business. michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.au [michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.au] www.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au [www.ownertoowner.com.au]

Designing a Business that Fits Your Lifestyle: Not the Other Way Around - Marie Carrillon

Building a Purpose-Driven Business as a Mumpreneur with Marie Carillon In this episode, Marie Carillon, founder and podcast host of the Business Mum Compass, [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-business-mum-compass-helping-new-mum/id1744111043] shares her insights into how mothers can create impactful, flexible businesses that align with their lifestyle and values. She emphasizes the importance of authenticity, personal branding, and clear definitions of success, especially in the evolving online economy. Key insights include: * How Marie transitioned from broad entrepreneurship content to focusing on mumpreneurs upon realizing their unique needs. * The significance of personal branding for online success and the role of authenticity in building trust. * Strategies for overcoming imposter syndrome and mindset blocks, especially for mothers balancing family and business. * The importance of defining success on your own terms and regularly revisiting your goals. * How online businesses offer greater flexibility, making it easier to balance motherhood and entrepreneurship. * The necessity of showing up consistently online, even when results aren’t immediate. * Reflection on the journey of entrepreneurship, learning from failures, and the value of persistence. * The influence of AI and digital tools in scaling small businesses and personal branding. * The ongoing need for support systems and accessible education for mumpreneurs, including affordable childcare and mental health resources. * Practical steps for aspiring mompreneurs to start their journey with confidence and authenticity. Chapters: * Introduction to Marie Carillon * : Her work at the intersection of motherhood and entrepreneurship * Transition to Mumpreneurs * : From general entrepreneurship to a niche focus * Mindset Challenges * : Overcoming imposter syndrome * Aligning Business with Motherhood * : Balancing goals and realities * Coaching and Confidence * : Overcoming mindset blocks * Personal Branding * : Key to online success * AI and Digital Tools * : Impact on business scaling * Authenticity Online * : Building trust and relatability * Engaging Content Creation * : Tips for founders * Offline vs. Online Branding * : Current landscape * Evolving Business with Family Needs * : Defining success * Purpose and Passion * : Sustaining motivation * Trial and Error in Entrepreneurship * : Learning from failures * Avoiding Burnout * : Setting realistic expectations * Online Business Models * : Flexibility and growth * Aligning Business with Passions * : Core values * Marie’s Entrepreneurial Journey * : Lessons learned * Misinformation about Success * : Importance of authenticity * Persistence and Results * : Long-term success * Podcast Evolution * : Focus on mumpreneurs * Embracing Change * : Overcoming fear of pivoting * External Opinions and Resilience * : Influences on business * Supporting Mums in Business * : Education and childcare * Societal Role of Mums * : Through entrepreneurship * Success Factors for Small Business * : Consistent effort and support * Future of AI in Branding * : Growth opportunities * Integrating Business Education * : Practical advice Resources & Links: * The Business Mum Compass Podcast [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-business-mum-compass-helping-new-mum/id1744111043] * Marie Carillon - LinkedIn [https://linkedin.com/in/mariecarillon] * Marie Carillon - Instagram [https://instagram.com/businessmumco] * Business Mum Loveable Website [https://businessmum.loveable.app/] Connect with Marie: * LinkedIn [https://linkedin.com/in/mariecarillon] * Instagram [https://instagram.com/businessmumco] Thanks for listening.  Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show. Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes. Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business. michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.au [michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.au] www.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au [www.ownertoowner.com.au]

Community Ownership Explained: How Rural Towns Can Save Essential Businesses: Matt Pfahlert

Most rural communities are facing a critical crossroads: how to preserve essential local businesses when traditional ownership models are failing. What if communities could take ownership themselves—reclaiming their future one business at a time? Matt Pfahlert [https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-pfahlert-acre/] founder of Community Owned Australia [https://acre.org.au/our-services/community-owned-australia/], explains how regional communities can take a step towards buying and operating the assets they can't afford to lose.  Drawing on successful models from Australia and overseas, Matt shares practical lessons on community ownership, social enterprise, governance, funding and long-term sustainability. This conversation explores what happens when ownership transition fail, how communities can identify opportunities worth saving, and why entrepreneurial thinking remains essential even when profit isn't the only objective. If you're interested in business ownership, succession, regional development or the future of rural Australia, this episode offers a fresh perspective on keeping communities alive and thriving. Key Topics * The role of community ownership in preventing the closure of essential local businesses * The powerful concept of "recombinant innovation"—bringing proven strategies from overseas and adapting them to local contexts. * How rural communities can leverage local networks to acquire assets * The importance of entrepreneurial mindset and operational discipline in community-run businesses * Examples of related models from overseas * Practical steps for communities to start their ownership journey using the Community Owned Australia framework * The significance of long-term planning, succession, and shared services to sustain rural businesses * Policy insights for government support, including easing regulations around superannuation and incentivizing rural investment Timestamps 00:00 - Introducing the importance of community ownership in rural Australia 01:11 - The risk of losing key community assets and the concept of community buyback 01:55 - Matt’s background growing up in rural communities and early entrepreneurial ventures 04:19 - Lessons from youth entrepreneurship and trading in small towns 05:30 - Moments that highlighted the need for alternative ownership models 07:45 - How overseas models inspire Australian solutions 09:44 - What  Recombinant Innovation  means for community-led ventures 11:30 - The principles and scope of  Community Owned Australia 12:09 - Diagnosing community needs and supporting local enterprise creation 14:02 - Building feasible business models with technical support and grants 15:20 - The importance of community governance, local investment, and co-ownership 17:23 - How to leverage external networks and mentorship for rural projects 20:05 - Changing community perceptions and motivation for local ownership 21:28 - The impact of local small businesses on retaining population and improving local appeal 22:39 - Identifying the types of businesses suited for community ownership 23:57 - Stages of community readiness and initial steps for engagement 26:11 - Role of entrepreneurial discipline and operational excellence in community ventures 28:00 - The significance of professional management and governance roles 29:32 - Innovative ideas like renewable energy projects to boost local economies 32:48 - Strategic planning, business succession, and understanding local business ecosystems 35:53 - Financing, valuation, and overcoming bank reluctance in rural asset ownership 38:04 - Engaging local champions—women, community leaders, and long-term residents 39:21 - The shifting mindset: from curiosity to motivation for rural community ownership 43:39 - Examples of successful buy-backs and their long-term asset value 44:40 - How communities can initiate with minimal risk through expressions of interest 47:21 - Hypothetical: What Matt would do as Australia's small business minister 48:48 - Final thoughts and how to get involved with Community Owned Australia   You can register your interest here  Community Owned Australia [https://acre.org.au/our-services/community-owned-australia/] Other resources & Links * Development Trust Association of Scotland [https://dtascot.org/] * Plunkett UK [https://plunkett.co.uk/] * Kerr Capital [https://kerrcapital.com.au/]   Thanks for listening.  Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show. Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes. Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business. michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.au [michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.au] www.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au [www.ownertoowner.com.au]

How not to leave money on the table when you sell your Business: Tony Brown from Divest Merge Acquire

Most business owners dramatically underestimate what it takes to sell successfully—until it's finally too late.  @Tony Brown [https://www.linkedin.com/in/tonybrown56/] founder of @DMA [http://www.divestmergeacquire.com/] is a seasoned expert in Australia's mid-market transactions. We talk about hidden pitfalls that lead to owners leaving money on the table, and the critical steps in preparing your business two years before selling.  We break down how owner dependence, cultural fit, and timing can make or break your sale.  And, you'll learn about why cleaning up your balance sheet, structuring flexible exit options, and keeping key staff informed is so important. The episode is very timely for an owner on the cusp of selling. In this episode: * The common surprises owners face in the sale process * Why understanding your business's true value is crucial early on * The differences between small and mid-market sales—what you need to know * How strategic buyers think and what influences their offers * The importance of owner readiness and timing (two years out, ideally) * How to make your business more attractive and less risky for buyers * Owner dependence and succession planning secrets * The critical role of info memoranda, data rooms, and due diligence * Protecting your legacy, staff, and your own peace of mind * Practical tips for entrepreneurs aiming for a smooth, profitable exit   Timestamps: 00:00 - Why most owners leave money on the table in a business sale 02:10 - The importance of viewing your business from an outsider's perspective 04:23 - How due diligence can turn your business upside down 05:25 - Defining the mid-market: what most Australian businesses look like 07:11 - Why a business is more like a virtual walkthrough than a house 09:42 - The crucial difference owner-operator mindset vs. strategic buyers 12:19 - The sweet spot: industry focus and the role of strategic vs. financial buyers 14:43 - How owner emotional ties influence negotiation and sale strategy 16:34 - The significance of cultural and strategic fit over price alone 18:55 - How foreign acquirers and local sellers can align interests 20:19 - The importance of owner transition planning 22:53 - Why your business "value" depends on owner involvement and planning ahead 24:54 - The power of structure: minority shareholdings, options, and de-risking deals 26:48 - Transitioning to a project-focused exit and meaningful post-sale work 28:28 - The rise of industry-specific, project-based advisory boards 30:24 - How industry giants buy and what that means for small business owners 33:34 - Protecting your business from over-sharing and maintaining confidentiality 37:07 - The risks of rushing a sale—what owners often screw up 40:34 - Preparing your balance sheet and operations two years prior to sale 43:24 - The common pitfalls when owners get overattached to systems and tech 45:39 - The underrated value of intellectual property and brand assets 48:29 - Envisioning a better small business environment—less regulation, more supportIf you want to walk away with a clear game plan, more confidence, and less risk in your exit strategy—this episode is a must-listen. Tony Brown's insights aren't just theory—they're battle-tested, real-world truths that could maximize your sale and protect your legacy. Resources & Links: * Tony Brown's LinkedIn [https://linkedin.com/in/tonybrown] * DivestMergeAcquire [https://divestma.com/] Connect with Tony: * Email: tony.brown@divestma.com [tony.brown@divestma.com] @kerrcapital.com.au    Thanks for listening.  Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show. Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes. Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business. michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.au [michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.au] www.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au [www.ownertoowner.com.au]