The Immortal Life of Agencies

X&O's Co-Founders: Embracing your superpowers – Eric Segal & Brett Banker

Today’s guests are Eric Segal and Brett Banker, Co-Founders of X&O – the sprint-based agency with an expert-only model, bringing together specialist talent to solve client challenges in double quick time. Drawing on more than 20 years leading teams inside traditional agencies, they share why they chose not to replicate what exists, but to rethink how the work gets done. Brett and Eric explore the shift from selling time to selling outcomes, why conviction matters more than compromise when defining a commercial model, and how freeing experts from meetings, multitasking and management responsibilities unlocks better thinking. They also discuss the future of agency talent, arguing that the industry's best people shouldn't have to leave the work they love behind simply to climb the career ladder. HIGHLIGHTS: [01:45] A new model agency [07:55] The winds of change [10:27] Solving problems [13:14] Specificity over availability [20:21] Consistency builds trust [28:34] Climbing the wrong ladder [32:30] The C-suite’s secret weapon [37:35] No long game [42:24] Conviction over consensus MORE ABOUT ERIC & BRETT: LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/eric-segal [https://www.linkedin.com/in/eric-segal-2228515/] LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/brett-banker [https://www.linkedin.com/in/brett-banker-721b36b8/] Website: heyxo.co [https://heyxo.co/] HOST SOCIALS: LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn [https://linkedin.com/in/robinbonn] Twitter: twitter.com/robonn [https://twitter.com/robonn] MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY: Website: codefinery.com [https://codefinery.com] Book: Market of One [https://marketofone.agency] Mentioned in this episode: Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq [https://the-immortal-life-of-ag.captivate.fm/dq]

Digitas EMEA's CEO: Meeting clients where they’re at – Sam Hawkey

Today’s guest is Sam Hawkey, CEO EMEA at Digitas and former CEO of both Saatchi & Saatchi and AMV BBDO. He shares his perspective on how clients and agencies must evolve together. He talks about prioritising genuine client fit – getting beyond the excitement to really understanding the likelihood of working well together. Sam unpacks his two most important criteria – the client's readiness for change and their willingness to adopt new commercial models. He also talks about the impact of genuine differentiation, as well as how Digitas promise and then deliver on outcomes, enabling clients to pay them in modern and progressive ways. Practical, optimistic and grounded in experience, this is a thoughtful conversation about building stronger client relationships and a more sustainable agency future. HIGHLIGHTS: [04:00] From advertising to CX [07:30] An orchestration mindset [09:18] Preparing clients for change [14:38] Expectations build trust [17:29] Substance and charisma [24:12] Knowing when to walk away [29:18] Relationships change remuneration [33:42] Creating pricing power [37:25] Sharing responsibility for change MORE ABOUT SAM: LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/samhawkey [https://www.linkedin.com/in/samhawkey/] Website: digitas.com/en-ae [https://www.digitas.com/en-ae/] HOST SOCIALS: LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn [https://linkedin.com/in/robinbonn] Twitter: twitter.com/robonn [https://twitter.com/robonn] MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE: 4As Blog: Before Reinventing Pricing, Agencies Must Reinvent Value [https://www.aaaa.org/blog/guest-post-before-reinventing-pricing-agencies-must-reinvent-value/] MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY: Website: codefinery.com [https://codefinery.com] Book: Market of One [https://marketofone.agency] Mentioned in this episode: Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq [https://the-immortal-life-of-ag.captivate.fm/dq]

Acceleration Community of Companies' Founder & CEO:  Follow the consumer – Michael Nyman

Today’s guest is Michael Nyman, Founder and CEO of the Acceleration Community of Companies (ACC), an agency group designed specifically in response to the traditional holding company model. Having spent his prior career within that model, Michael explains that clients now demand speed, specialist expertise and a deeper consumer insight. So rather than accepting internal competition, ACC is optimised for collaboration and an advisory-first approach that solves client problems before deciding how to execute them. The conversation explores why organisational design has become a competitive advantage, how integrated teams can move faster, and why specialisation is mission-critical. Michael also reflects on how his competitive set is evolving as ACC grows, offering a unique snapshot of a dynamic market and demonstrating why evolution is imperative for success. HIGHLIGHTS: [02:21] Building a ‘doing’ company [04:38] Why stories matter [09:13] A circular organisation [13:21] Leading with advice [17:27] Measuring collaboration [22:17] The bundling effect [28:22] Following client demand [33:53] Finding your purpose MORE ABOUT MICHAEL: LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/michael-nyman [https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-nyman-676ba72a/] Website: accelerationcc.com [https://www.accelerationcc.com/] HOST SOCIALS: LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn [https://linkedin.com/in/robinbonn] Twitter: twitter.com/robonn [https://twitter.com/robonn] MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY: Website: codefinery.com [https://codefinery.com] Book: Market of One [https://marketofone.agency] Mentioned in this episode: Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq [https://the-immortal-life-of-ag.captivate.fm/dq]

Ogilvy's Former CEO EMEA: Pivoting a life and an industry – Patou Nuytemans

Today's guest is Patou Nuytemans, former CEO of Ogilvy EMEA, whose remarkable 30-year journey from intern to regional chief has given her a rare perspective on leadership, reinvention and the future of agencies. Patou reflects candidly on the emotional reality of leaving the business that shaped her, explaining how heartbreak became gratitude and ultimately inspired a new chapter of reflection and writing. She believes that agencies don't have a creativity problem, they have a value problem. Patou describes long-standing commercial weaknesses that make it essential for agencies to connect creativity with business impact, demonstrate value over capability, and rethink how they price their work. Thoughtful, optimistic and deeply human, this is a compelling conversation about identity, leadership and why the agency industry's best days can still lie ahead. HIGHLIGHTS: [02:56] The pivot begins [04:40] Sharing gratitude [09:11] Finding purpose [15:11] Learning through uncertainty [19:07] How AI exposes truth [25:55] Demonstrating real value [29:39] Every conversation counts [34:11] From services to solutions [38:31] Back to marketing basics [42:19] Owning the future MORE ABOUT PATOU: LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/patounuytemans [https://www.linkedin.com/in/patounuytemans/] Substack: patoupivots.substack.com [https://patoupivots.substack.com/] MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE: VoxComm Research: Redesigning the agency value model [https://voxcomm.org/wp-content/uploads/2026/02/Executive-Summary-Redesigning-the-Agency-Value-Model.pdf] Theo of Golden: amazon.com/Theo-Golden-Novel-Allen-Levi [https://www.amazon.com/Theo-Golden-Novel-Allen-Levi/dp/1668236567] HOST SOCIALS: LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn [https://linkedin.com/in/robinbonn] Twitter: twitter.com/robonn [https://twitter.com/robonn] MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY: Website: codefinery.com [https://codefinery.com] Book: Market of One [https://marketofone.agency] Mentioned in this episode: Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq [https://the-immortal-life-of-ag.captivate.fm/dq]

Don't Forget to Look's Founder: Crack the Procurement Code – Stuart Dunk

Today’s guest is Stuart Dunk, a former marketing procurement leader at the likes of Nike, Reckitt and Danone. He now runs his own consultancy, Don't Forget to Look. Procurement remains one of the most misunderstood client-side functions. Stuart offers a rare insider’s perspective on what agencies get wrong and how they can engage more effectively with the people influencing buying decisions. He explains why not all procurement professionals think alike, how agencies can diagnose procurement culture before entering a pitch, and when differentiation matters most. The conversation also explores specialist positioning, value-based selling and why agencies must build relationships earlier. Insightful, generous and commercially astute, Stuart challenges common assumptions and offers a smarter approach to working with procurement professionals. HIGHLIGHTS: [02:30] 20 years of buying marketing [05:19] Beyond procurement stereotypes [09:09] Reading buying signals [12:53] Where agencies have power [19:03] The role of differentiation [23:19] Winning every scorecard [31:04] Staying curious [32:43] Building pipeline differently [40:24] Asking permission MORE ABOUT STUART: LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/stuart-dunk-dftl [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stuart-dunk-dftl/] Website: dontforgettolook.com [https://www.dontforgettolook.com/] HOST SOCIALS: LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn [https://linkedin.com/in/robinbonn] Twitter: twitter.com/robonn [https://twitter.com/robonn] MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY: Website: codefinery.com [https://codefinery.com] Book: Market of One [https://marketofone.agency] Mentioned in this episode: Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq [https://the-immortal-life-of-ag.captivate.fm/dq]