The Outdoor Education Podcast With Rob Carmichael

S01:E19 The Outdoor Leader: Resilience, Integrity and Leadership with Jeannette Stawski

In this episode of The Outdoor Education Podcast, Rob is joined by Jeannette Stawski, founder of Leading Valiantly and author of The Outdoor Leader, Resilience, Integrity and Adventure. Jeannette brings a rich perspective shaped by guiding, teaching, wilderness medicine, university outdoor programmes, executive coaching, association leadership, and fifteen years as Executive Director of the Association of Outdoor Recreation and Education. Together, Rob and Jeannette explore what it really means to be an outdoor leader, moving beyond technical competence alone to look at judgement, communication, resilience, integrity, vulnerability and service. The conversation looks closely at failure as a necessary part of learning, the difference between purposeful challenge and unnecessary hardship, and why the outdoors gives such immediate feedback on how we lead, listen and work with others. Jeannette also reflects on professionalisation within the outdoor sector, the need for fair pay and stronger recognition of outdoor work, and the role that associations and communities of practice can play in shaping a more confident, connected and purposeful field. This is a thoughtful and energising conversation for outdoor educators, school leaders, programme directors, instructors and anyone interested in how outdoor experiences can help people become more capable, reflective and courageous leaders. Find out more about Jeannette’s work at Leading Valiantly: https://www.leadingvaliantly.com/ [https://www.leadingvaliantly.com/]

S01:E18 Lucky or Good? Understanding Risk and the Science of Safety with Steve Smith

What if safety was not just about preventing things from going wrong, but learning more deeply from why things usually go right? In this episode of The Outdoor Education Podcast, Rob is joined by Steve Smith, founder of Experiential Consulting and author of Safety Science for Outdoor and Experiential Education. Together, they explore how outdoor educators, schools and programme leaders can think more clearly about risk, safety, judgement and purposeful challenge. Steve shares how his experiences in outdoor risk management shaped his thinking around beneficial risk, organisational culture and learning in dynamic environments. The conversation moves through risk literacy, the limits of being “paper safe”, the difference between work as imagined and work as done, and the importance of learning from near misses, workarounds and everyday success. This episode is full of thoughtful, practical insight for outdoor educators, school leaders and anyone interested in building a more honest, human and learning-centred approach to safety and risk. Find out more about Steve and Experiential Consulting: https://outdoorrisk.com [https://outdoorrisk.com/] Steve’s book, Safety Science for Outdoor and Experiential Education, is available here: https://a.co/d/05226cTB [https://a.co/d/05226cTB]

S01:E17 Inclusion, Agency, and Knowing the Learner with Calum Wright

In this episode of The Outdoor Education Podcast, Rob sits down with Calum Wright, primary teacher, outdoor learning specialist, and founder of Fresh Air Teacher, for a thoughtful conversation about student agency, inclusion, and knowing learners well. At the heart of the episode is a key question, when does challenge help a student grow, and when does pushing beyond a comfort zone become unhelpful? Rob and Callum explore how good outdoor practice depends on relationships, trust, and careful observation rather than blanket assumptions. They discuss: *  why student agency matters in outdoor learning  *  how to better understand when a learner needs encouragement, adaptation, or space  *  the impact of outdoor learning for students with neurodiverse needs *  why inclusion is never automatic, but built through listening and knowing each child well  A valuable episode for educators interested in learner-centred, inclusive outdoor practice.

S01:E16 Belonging, & DEI in Outdoor Education with Dan Kreisberg & Camille Simone Edwards

What if nature could help us better understand diversity, belonging, and human relationships? In this episode of the Outdoor Education Podcast, Rob is joined by Dan Kreisberg and Camille Simone Edwards, co-creators of Diversity Education in Nature (DEIN). Together, they explore how the natural world can serve as a powerful lens for teaching equity, empathy, and community. Dan and Camille share how simple outdoor experiences, can open the door to deeper conversations about identity, inclusion, and what it really means to belong. They unpack the idea of “brave spaces” over “safe spaces,” the importance of starting with low-stakes conversations, and why this work is less about quick results and more about planting seeds for long-term change. The conversation also dives into the realities of doing DEI work in outdoor education today, from barriers to access and representation to the importance of authenticity, vulnerability, and facilitation skills. This episode is full of practical insights for educators, facilitators, and anyone interested in using the outdoors as a space for meaningful human connection.

S01:E15 Safety, Culture, and the Hidden Work of Outdoor Leadership with Stuart Slay

What does real safety leadership look like in outdoor education and why can it sometimes feel like such an isolating role? In this episode of The Outdoor Education Podcast, Rob sits down with Stuart Slay, founder of Slay Risk, a safety leadership and risk advisory practice that works with schools, experiential programs, and outdoor organizations around the world. Stuart shares his journey from climbing gyms, ski patrol, and avalanche forecasting to becoming a leading voice in safety science and systems thinking. Together, Rob and Stuart explore how culture, leadership, communication, and organizational structure shape the safety of outdoor programs and why many of the biggest risks appear long before anyone steps into the field. They also discuss: * Why traditional risk assessments often miss the bigger picture * How culture influences safety in ways many programs overlook * What systems thinking can teach outdoor educators * The growing importance of psychosocial safety and mental health in outdoor programs * Why safety leaders often feel like the “department of no” * How risk managers can gain influence inside schools and organizations This episode offers valuable insights for outdoor educators, program leaders, and risk managers who want to build safer, healthier, and more resilient learning environments. For more information, you can visit Slay Risk's website  www.slayrisk.com and read the full paper on https://js.sagamorepub.com/index.php/jorel/article/view/12408