Leading When You Don't Know The Destination with Gary Campbell & Michael Rubino

Leading When You Don't Know The Destination with Gary Campbell & Michael Rubino

In this episode of the Be The Church Podcast, Pastor Joel Wayne sits down with Pastor Gary Campbell and Pastor Michael Rubino for an honest and faith-filled conversation about one of the most challenging realities every leader faces — leading people when you're not sure where you're going. Gary has served his entire life at a 107+ year-old church in Groton, Connecticut, rooted in multi-generational faithfulness. Michael leads a rapidly growing, deeply diverse church on Long Island, New York, where half the congregation has come to faith in the last two years. Together, they unpack the difference between knowing your destination and knowing your strategy, why God rarely gives leaders a GPS but always gives them a direction, and how to lead with confidence when the path ahead isn't fully clear. They discuss the tension between vision and strategy, why people respect faith from a distance but struggle to follow it up close, how to respond to people in your church who want more clarity than you can give, and why the uncertainty you're walking through right now might be exactly where God is doing His best work. Whether you're a pastor navigating a major ministry transition, a leader trying to cast vision without a fully formed plan, or simply someone trying to follow Jesus faithfully through an uncertain season of life — this episode will challenge you to keep moving, stay in the Word, and trust that God doesn't need to reveal every step to prove He's working. In this episode, you'll learn: * Why you can know your destination but still lack the strategy to get there — and what to do about it * How to lead with clarity and confidence when you can't give people a GPS route to the future * What Abraham, Moses, David, Esther, Paul, and Joshua all have in common — and what it means for your leadership today * Why people respect faith from a distance but struggle to actually follow a leader who operates by it * How to hear the words behind the words when disgruntled people challenge your vision * Why uncertainty isn't a leadership failure — it's often where the deepest spiritual growth happens * How to discern whether lack of clarity is a God-dependency issue or a strategy-building issue * What it looks like to start moving before you have all the answers — and why a parked car goes nowhere * How to get above the clouds when the ground-level view is too overwhelming to navigate * Why the plan God calls you to should always be bigger than what you can accomplish on your own Get each episode to your inbox -> https://bethechurch.org/podcast/ [https://bethechurch.org/podcast/] Leave a Review and Subscribe * Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/1lB8pnN6bhexbvj5KRGTRq] * Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/be-the-church-with-joel-wayne/id1845408311] * YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI] Connect With Us * Website: https://bethechurch.org/ [https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbGVpUEJxMnM4ZFdZR2Z3QUxhQjhFc2paYXJRQXxBQ3Jtc0ttYkxmYUlhaHpzandSNThXUEoyT2YxQ3o4M3ZqejZGdERCSFNLUFJGUEU0VFdXMW44WXFLbWxWbTBZbU1DWGFaRGIydWczaG5DSnlhVlc0cHZlei02UGNvR3JuZHVVdTJnY3lqS3ZQQk12bmZBY3dZOA&q=https%3A%2F%2Fbethechurch.org%2F&v=JX0e5yF_sM8] * Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/ [https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/] * YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI [https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI]

Leading When You're Not In Charge with Zach Stephens

Not everyone is called to sit in the lead seat—but every follower of Jesus is called to lead faithfully. In this episode, Joel Wayne sits down with Luke Bilberry and Zach Stephens to explore the unique challenges, opportunities, and blessings of serving in the "second chair." Whether you're an associate pastor, ministry leader, business executive, team member, or volunteer, this conversation offers practical wisdom on supporting a vision, leading with humility, and leveraging your influence for the Kingdom of God. Together, they discuss the importance of trust, alignment, communication, calling, and understanding how God has uniquely wired each leader. You'll discover why great leadership is often about serving others well, embracing your role with joy, and helping carry the mission forward—even when you're not the one casting the final vision. If you've ever wrestled with contentment, influence, authority, or leadership responsibility, this episode will encourage you to lead faithfully where God has placed you. Key Scriptures Philippians 2:3-11 Jesus modeled humility and servant leadership by emptying Himself and taking the form of a servant. Exodus 17:8-13 Aaron and Hur holding up Moses' arms as a picture of supporting leadership. Acts 6:1-7 The apostles empower others to serve so the mission of God can continue to expand. Romans 12:3-8 Different gifts, one body, united in purpose. 1 Corinthians 12:12-27 Every member plays a unique and valuable role in God's mission. In This Episode * What it means to serve faithfully in the second chair. * Why every organization needs trusted support leaders. * The blessing of influence without carrying ultimate responsibility. * How healthy leaders create space for people to grow and evolve in their roles. * The dangers of moving faster than the vision allows. * Learning to submit ideas while maintaining conviction. * The relationship between trust, humility, and organizational health. * Why understanding your God-given wiring matters. * The difference between "I could" and "I should." * How servant leadership reflects the character of Christ. Leadership Takeaways 1. Great Leadership Begins with Great Followership The ability to support, serve, and strengthen another leader is a critical leadership skill. Faithfulness in the second chair prepares leaders for greater responsibility. 2. Trust Is the Foundation of Healthy Teams Healthy organizations are built on mutual trust. Leaders must trust their teams, and teams must trust the leaders God has placed over them. 3. Good Leadership Requires Humility Not every idea needs to be implemented immediately. Humility allows leaders to submit preferences for the sake of unity and mission. 4. Know How God Has Wired You Every leader brings unique strengths to the table. Understanding your gifts helps you serve effectively and avoid unnecessary frustration. 5. Alignment Matters More Than Speed Healthy change requires communication, trust, and alignment. Moving too quickly can create drift, while moving together creates momentum. 6. Focus on Calling, Not Position Discontent grows when we focus on what we could do. Joy grows when we focus on what God has called us to do today. Questions for Reflection 1. How has God uniquely wired me to serve and lead? 2. Am I fully embracing the role God has currently given me? 3. Where do I need to grow in trust toward the leaders around me? 4. Are my preferences creating unity or unnecessary tension? 5. Do I focus more on what I could do or what God is calling me to do? 6. How can I better support and strengthen the people God has placed in leadership around me? Connect with Be The Church Be The Church exists to equip leaders to be reinvigorated, renewed, and catalyzed to become who God has called them to be. Through biblical teaching, practical leadership insights, and transformational conversations, our goal is not self-help—but gospel-centered transformation that impacts homes, churches, workplaces, and communities. Learn more at bethechurch.org Subscribe & Share If this conversation encouraged you, share it with a friend, coworker, pastor, business leader, or disciple-maker who desires to lead from a place of deep discipleship and greater spiritual influence. Because transformed followers of Jesus transform the world around them. Get each episode to your inbox - https://bethechurch.org/podcast/ [https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbHpmTkkzbW1FVmxCVjhYWWItTDZvQVB6OTh3d3xBQ3Jtc0ttbnRmNEZjbV9XNEVDSEp0c2ZqbWFPVjZYd1JzM1NfNV83MHNnZXNVb01hdkV2dHNvMFpiQ3hMeUJYdi00Sk8tRHcybVBHc29BbVFZN3QxdjdnSnZEbnJ6UkhwaDFBaC1xVUFvb2hMd0Z3S1pkOXZfaw&q=https%3A%2F%2Fbethechurch.org%2Fpodcast%2F&v=GkDiHX_GXcw] * Website: https://bethechurch.org/ [https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbGVpUEJxMnM4ZFdZR2Z3QUxhQjhFc2paYXJRQXxBQ3Jtc0ttYkxmYUlhaHpzandSNThXUEoyT2YxQ3o4M3ZqejZGdERCSFNLUFJGUEU0VFdXMW44WXFLbWxWbTBZbU1DWGFaRGIydWczaG5DSnlhVlc0cHZlei02UGNvR3JuZHVVdTJnY3lqS3ZQQk12bmZBY3dZOA&q=https%3A%2F%2Fbethechurch.org%2F&v=JX0e5yF_sM8] * Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/ [https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/] * YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI [https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI] Leave a Review and Subscribe * Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/1lB8pnN6bhexbvj5KRGTRq] * Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/be-the-church-with-joel-wayne/id1845408311] * YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI]

The Cost of Discipleship and Leading for Christ in the Workplace with Josh Fuller

What does it actually mean to follow Jesus? For many believers, faith begins with receiving Jesus as Savior. But somewhere along the journey comes the realization that Jesus is not only Savior—He is Lord. In this episode, Joel Wayne and Luke Bilberry sit down with business leader, elder, husband, and disciple-maker Josh Fuller to discuss the difference between simply believing in Jesus and truly following Him. Josh shares his personal faith journey—from a dramatic gospel presentation at thirteen years old, through years of cultural Christianity, to discovering the life-changing call of discipleship. Together, they explore what it means to count the cost, embrace spiritual leadership, and boldly live out the gospel in the workplace. Whether you lead in a church, a business, a classroom, or your home, this conversation will challenge you to see your everyday sphere of influence as a mission field and your leadership as a calling from God. In This Episode * Josh shares the defining chapters of his spiritual journey. * Why many Christians know Jesus as Savior but never fully embrace Him as Lord. * The difference between event-driven Christianity and intentional discipleship. * Why churches must present the full invitation of Jesus—including the cost. * How spiritual leadership extends far beyond vocational ministry. * Practical ways to live unashamed of the gospel in the workplace. * Understanding your workplace as a mission field. * How fear often reveals that we are focused on ourselves rather than God's mission. * Why kindness alone is not enough—and why gospel conversations matter. * Learning to leverage everyday opportunities to point people toward Christ. Leadership Takeaways 1. Salvation Is the Beginning, Not the Finish Line Many believers have experienced a moment of conversion but have never been taught how to follow Jesus as disciples. The invitation of Jesus is not simply to believe in Him but to follow Him. 2. Discipleship Has a Cost Jesus never hid the cost of following Him. True discipleship requires surrender, obedience, and dying to self—but it also leads to freedom, joy, and transformation. 3. Every Christian Is a Spiritual Leader Spiritual leadership is not reserved for pastors or church staff. God has strategically placed every believer in unique spheres of influence to represent Christ. 4. Your Workplace Is a Mission Field The people God has placed around you may never step inside a church building. You may be God's chosen messenger in their life. 5. Fear Shrinks When Christ Becomes the Focus Many fears around evangelism ultimately center on self-preservation. When Jesus becomes our focus, courage grows and opportunities emerge. 6. Gospel Presence Must Include Gospel Proclamation Kindness, compassion, and excellence matter. But disciples of Jesus are also called to speak about the hope they have found in Christ. Memorable Quotes Key Scriptures Luke 14:25-33 – The Cost of Discipleship Romans 1:16-17 – "For I am not ashamed of the gospel..." Matthew 28:18-20 – The Great Commission 1 Peter 3:15 – Always be prepared to give an answer for the hope within you. Galatians 5:22-23 – The Fruit of the Spirit Questions for Reflection 1. Have I embraced Jesus as both Savior and Lord? 2. What costs of discipleship am I currently resisting? 3. Who has God placed in my sphere of influence that needs to experience the love of Christ? 4. Am I living unashamed of the gospel in my workplace, neighborhood, and relationships? 5. What opportunities might God be giving me to "raise the flag" and make my faith visible? 6. How can I intentionally lead spiritually in the places God has already assigned me? Connect with Be The Church Be The Church exists to equip leaders to be reinvigorated, renewed, and catalyzed to become who God has called them to be. Through biblical teaching, practical leadership insights, and transformational conversations, our goal is not self-help—but gospel-centered transformation that impacts homes, churches, workplaces, and communities. Learn more at bethechurch.org Subscribe & Share If this conversation encouraged you, share it with a friend, coworker, pastor, business leader, or disciple-maker who desires to lead from a place of deep discipleship and greater spiritual influence. Because transformed followers of Jesus transform the world around them. Get each episode to your inbox - https://bethechurch.org/podcast/ [https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbHpmTkkzbW1FVmxCVjhYWWItTDZvQVB6OTh3d3xBQ3Jtc0ttbnRmNEZjbV9XNEVDSEp0c2ZqbWFPVjZYd1JzM1NfNV83MHNnZXNVb01hdkV2dHNvMFpiQ3hMeUJYdi00Sk8tRHcybVBHc29BbVFZN3QxdjdnSnZEbnJ6UkhwaDFBaC1xVUFvb2hMd0Z3S1pkOXZfaw&q=https%3A%2F%2Fbethechurch.org%2Fpodcast%2F&v=GkDiHX_GXcw] * Website: https://bethechurch.org/ [https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbGVpUEJxMnM4ZFdZR2Z3QUxhQjhFc2paYXJRQXxBQ3Jtc0ttYkxmYUlhaHpzandSNThXUEoyT2YxQ3o4M3ZqejZGdERCSFNLUFJGUEU0VFdXMW44WXFLbWxWbTBZbU1DWGFaRGIydWczaG5DSnlhVlc0cHZlei02UGNvR3JuZHVVdTJnY3lqS3ZQQk12bmZBY3dZOA&q=https%3A%2F%2Fbethechurch.org%2F&v=JX0e5yF_sM8] * Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/ [https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/] * YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI [https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI] Leave a Review and Subscribe * Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/1lB8pnN6bhexbvj5KRGTRq] * Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/be-the-church-with-joel-wayne/id1845408311] * YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI]

Marriage, Ministry, and the Power of a Shared Calling - Part 2 (with Melissa Wayne)

In this episode of the Be The Church Podcast, Pastor Luke Bilberry sits down with Melissa Wayne for an honest and encouraging conversation about faith, business, marriage, leadership, and raising a family while staying centered on Christ. Melissa shares her journey from working in marketing and corporate business to becoming a business owner, consultant, COO, and licensed residential builder — all while serving alongside her husband in ministry and raising four kids. Together, they unpack the tension of balancing calling, work, and family life, what it means to lead with humility and servant-heartedness, and how faith shapes the way we navigate pressure, leadership, and success. They also discuss the importance of intentional living, creating margin for spiritual conversations at home, leading in high-pressure environments without chaos, and why “faithfulness is the reward” in both ministry and the marketplace. Whether you’re leading a business, serving in ministry, raising a family, or simply trying to follow Jesus faithfully in a busy world, this episode will encourage you to trust God’s plan, steward your gifts well, and live with purpose wherever He has placed you. In this episode, you’ll learn: *  How to follow Jesus faithfully in the marketplace  *  Why servant leadership matters in business and ministry  *  How Melissa balances leadership, family, and faith  *  What it looks like to lead with peace instead of chaos  *  Why intentionality is essential in parenting and marriage  *  How to trust God when your plans and dreams change  *  The importance of building margin for spiritual conversations  *  Why faithfulness matters more than platform or success  *  How to navigate pressure and responsibility with a biblical perspective  *  What it means to use your gifts and career for the Kingdom of God Get each episode to your inbox -> https://bethechurch.org/podcast/ [https://bethechurch.org/podcast/] Leave a Review and Subscribe * Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/1lB8pnN6bhexbvj5KRGTRq] * Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/be-the-church-with-joel-wayne/id1845408311] * YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI] Connect With Us * Website: https://bethechurch.org/ [https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbGVpUEJxMnM4ZFdZR2Z3QUxhQjhFc2paYXJRQXxBQ3Jtc0ttYkxmYUlhaHpzandSNThXUEoyT2YxQ3o4M3ZqejZGdERCSFNLUFJGUEU0VFdXMW44WXFLbWxWbTBZbU1DWGFaRGIydWczaG5DSnlhVlc0cHZlei02UGNvR3JuZHVVdTJnY3lqS3ZQQk12bmZBY3dZOA&q=https%3A%2F%2Fbethechurch.org%2F&v=JX0e5yF_sM8] * Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/ [https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/] * YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI [https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI]

Marriage, Ministry, and the Power of a Shared Calling - Part 1 (with Melissa Wayne)

In this episode of the Be The Church Podcast, Pastor Luke Bilberry sits down with Pastor Joel Wayne and his wife, Melissa Wayne, for an honest, heartfelt conversation about marriage, ministry, sacrifice, and the refining work of God through every season of life. Together, they unpack the realities of serving in ministry as a married couple—from criticism, unmet expectations, and difficult transitions to the beauty of shared calling, mutual encouragement, and spiritual growth through surrender. Melissa shares candidly about stepping outside her comfort zone, navigating seasons of brokenness, and learning to embrace God’s plan even when it looked far different than what she imagined for her life. From the challenges of being a pastor’s wife to the importance of speaking life into your spouse, this episode offers practical wisdom and gospel-centered encouragement for couples, parents, ministry leaders, and anyone seeking to faithfully follow Jesus in the everyday moments of life. What you’ll learn: *  Why a shared calling is essential for navigating marriage and ministry together  *  How criticism, preferences, and expectations can challenge ministry families  *  The importance of prioritizing Christ, marriage, and family in the right order  *  What it looks like to move from striving for self to fully relying on Christ  *  How God uses hard seasons, transitions, and brokenness to refine and strengthen us  *  Why words of encouragement and affirmation deeply matter in marriage  *  How healthy marriages sharpen, strengthen, and sanctify both spouses  *  Practical encouragement for young moms and wives navigating exhausting seasons  *  Why obedience often requires stepping outside your comfort zone  *  The danger of prioritizing success, ministry, or achievement over serving your spouse  *  How surrender and faithfulness can lead to lasting spiritual impact and transformation  *  Why embracing the season God has you in can change everything Get each episode to your inbox -> https://bethechurch.org/podcast/ [https://bethechurch.org/podcast/] Leave a Review and Subscribe * Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/1lB8pnN6bhexbvj5KRGTRq] * Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/be-the-church-with-joel-wayne/id1845408311] * YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI] Connect With Us * Website: https://bethechurch.org/ [https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbGVpUEJxMnM4ZFdZR2Z3QUxhQjhFc2paYXJRQXxBQ3Jtc0ttYkxmYUlhaHpzandSNThXUEoyT2YxQ3o4M3ZqejZGdERCSFNLUFJGUEU0VFdXMW44WXFLbWxWbTBZbU1DWGFaRGIydWczaG5DSnlhVlc0cHZlei02UGNvR3JuZHVVdTJnY3lqS3ZQQk12bmZBY3dZOA&q=https%3A%2F%2Fbethechurch.org%2F&v=JX0e5yF_sM8] * Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/ [https://www.instagram.com/bethechurchmi/] * YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI [https://www.youtube.com/@BeTheChurchMI]