Learning How to See with Brian McLaren

Loving When We're Not At Our Best with Parker Palmer

How can we see others, and ourselves, with love when anger, fear, depression, or division clouds our vision?  Today's episode of Learning How to See features an interview with Quaker elder Parker J. Palmer [https://couragerenewal.org/parker-j-palmer/].  Parker helps us explore how love can become a way of seeing, how we can navigate times of depression, and why listening to each other’s life stories may be our best antidote to polarization. Join us as Parker reflects on encounters that reshaped his assumptions about “the other,” sharing insights from decades of Quaker practice.  Resources: * Subscribe to Parker's Substack here. [https://parkerjpalmer.substack.com/] * Learn more about the Center for Renewal and Courage here. [https://couragerenewal.org/] * Follow Parker on Facebook here. [https://www.facebook.com/parkerjpalmer/] * Find the transcript for this episode here. [https://cac.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/LHTS-905-ParkerPalmer-Final.pdf] Connect with us:  Have a question you’d like Brian or Carmen to answer about this season? * Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠podcasts@cac.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [podcasts@cac.org]  * Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠ [https://cac.org/voicemail]

Learning How to Hold Space for Others with Cindy Lee

How can we de-Westernize spirituality and honor our full humanity within systems that often diminish it? On this episode of Learning How to See, Dr. Cindy Lee, [https://ourunforming.com/] a spiritual director and author, joins hosts Brian McLaren and Carmen Acevedo Butcher for a conversation on de-Westernizing spirituality and holding space for the lived experience of others. Cindy shares how her work with BIPOC communities revealed the limits of Westernized spiritual formation, and how confronting the “Western missionary gaze” can open us to seeing our cultures — and ourselves — with dignity rather than judgment.   Resources: * Read Howard Thurman's "The Sound of the Genuine" here. [https://thurman.pitts.emory.edu/items/show/838] * Find the transcript of this episode⁠ ⁠here.⁠⁠ [https://cac.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/LHTS-904-Mix1-CAC-FFW4XFMJHJ.pdf] Connect with us:  Have a question you’d like Brian or Carmen to answer about this season? * Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [https://cac.org/voicemail]  * Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠podcasts@cac.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [podcasts@cac.org]

Loving People Who Oppose Our Values with Cassidy Hall

How do we soften our hearts to those whose values are in stark contrast to our own? Can we safely love those who have even gone so far as to harm us? On this episode of Learning How to See, Dr. Cassidy Hall, [https://cassidyhall.com/] author of Queering Contemplation, [https://www.amazon.com/Queering-Contemplation-Queerness-Contemplative-Spirituality/dp/1506493394?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1694094237&sr=8-1&linkCode=sl1&tag=csh17-20&linkId=dc4430551db6ca9acae1cdca2965fbcc&language=en_US&ref_=as_li_ss_tl] poses these tough questions to our hosts Brian McLaren and Carmen Acevedo Butcher. Together, they explore how we can respond with integrity when our deepest values are met with opposition.  Through personal stories, Brian and Carmen model ways in which they’ve grappled with loving in the face of persecution, strained family dynamics, and systemic incongruities with their own values. Resources: * Discover more about Dr. Cassidy Hall ⁠here. [https://cassidyhall.com/] * Find the transcript of this episode⁠ here.⁠ [https://cac.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/11/LHTS-903-Mix1.pdf] Connect with us:  Have a question you’d like Brian or Carmen to answer about this season? * Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠⁠ [https://cac.org/voicemail]  * Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠podcasts@cac.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [podcasts@cac.org]

Loving As Hosts, Not Heroes with Becca Stevens

How can we open ourselves to being hosts in the world?  On this episode of Learning How To See, we hear from social entrepreneur Becca Stevens, founder of Thistle Farms, a nonprofit which provides sanctuary, employment, and hope for women survivors of trafficking, exploitation, and addiction. Becca invites us to see holiness in unlikely places — just like the thistle growing through cracks in the pavement.  In the ninth season of Learning How To See, we continue to learn how to see through the eyes of love. Our hosts Brian McLaren and Carmen Acevedo Butcher reflect on what it means to stay present when love feels complicated.  Resources: * Find out more about Becca here. [https://beccastevens.org/] * Find out more about Thistle Farms here [https://thistlefarms.org/]. * Pick up a copy of Becca's book, Snake Oil, here. [https://beccastevens.org/pages/books] * Find the transcript of this episode here. [https://cac.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/11/LHTS-902-Mix1-1.pdf] Connect with us:  Have a question you’d like Brian or Carmen to answer about this season * Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠ [https://cac.org/voicemail]  * Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠podcasts@cac.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [podcasts@cac.org]

Seeing Ourselves with Eyes of Love with Kaitlin Curtice

It can feel easy to offer compassion to others. But, why is it so hard to extend that same tenderness to ourselves?  In Season 9 of Learning How To See, we continue to learn how to see through the eyes of love. On this season premiere, author and storyteller Kaitlin Curtice joins our hosts Brian McLaren and Carmen Acevedo Butcher to explore Indigenous wisdom, the Potawatomi language, and daily rituals of gratitude.   Resources: * Learn more about Kaitlin Curtice here [https://www.kaitlincurtice.com/]. * Pick up a copy of Kaitlin's latest book, Everything is a Story, here [https://www.kaitlincurtice.com/books/]. * Join Kaitlin's Substack, The Liminality Journal, here [https://kaitlincurtice.substack.com/]. * The transcript for this episode can be found here. [https://cac.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/11/LHTS-901-Mix1.pdf] Connect with us:  * Have a question you’d like Brian or Carmen to answer about this season?  * Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠podcasts@cac.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [podcasts@cac.org]  * Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠ [https://cac.org/voicemail]  *