Why Neurodiversity Exposes the Myth of the “Normal User”

Why Neurodiversity Exposes the Myth of the “Normal User”

We keep designing for a “normal” user. The problem is, that person does not exist. For neurodiverse people, that myth shows up early. In classrooms. In checklists. In systems that reward one way of thinking, one way of sitting still, one way of paying attention, one way of moving through the world. On this episode of Second Wind, Gully Flowers and Kerrie Finch talk with David Vogel, Executive Experience Director at Hypersolid, about neurodiversity, accessibility, AI, and the future of human-centered design. David argues that accessibility should not be treated as an edge case or a compliance layer. It should be foundational. Because once you stop designing for the fictional average person, you can start designing for actual humans. The conversation moves from ADHD and school systems to crash test dummies, smart workplaces, Google, Siemens, Lotus, and AI-powered customer experiences. It also gets into why ChatGPT is only the first crude interface for AI, why brands should be careful about handing their customer relationships to AI platforms, and how intelligent experiences could create more adaptive, personal, and useful interactions across digital and physical spaces. This is a conversation about neurodiversity, inclusive design, accessibility, AI strategy, personalization, brand experience, and the future of interfaces. In this episode, we cover * * How neurodiversity reframes accessibility * Why school can punish ADHD and neurodiverse people * What crash test dummies reveal about designing for averages * Why AI needs to move beyond the chatbot * How brands can use AI without surrendering customer relationships What intelligent experiences could mean for workplaces, retail, and personalization Guest: David Vogel, Executive Experience Director at Hypersolid Hosts: Gully Flowers and Kerrie Finch Podcast: Second Wind

Why Great Ads Feel Like Childhood Memories | Marques Gartrell, W+K

Marques Gartrell is Co-CCO of Wieden+Kennedy New York, the agency behind work for Nike, McDonald’s, Delta, and Michelob Ultra. In this episode of Second Wind: * how the Travis Scott meal started from a tweet * why the Grimace Shake became internet folklore * how W+K made “Horizontal Breakfast” in 7 days * why brands are competing with childhood memories * what young creatives get wrong * why Marques still keeps Photoshop open A conversation about culture, instinct, taste, speed, and making work people actually carry around with them. The best work stops feeling like advertising and starts feeling like part of someone’s life.

Andrew McKechnie on OpenAI, Apple, and Moving Creative Upstream

Andrew McKechnie is Head of Business Creative Studio at OpenAI. Before that he was SVP and Chief Creative Officer at Verizon, where he ran a $3 billion marketing budget and built a 300-person in-house agency. Before that he was Global Head of Design Group at Apple. Across his career he has won a Gold Cannes Lion, multiple D&AD pencils, six straight Webbys, and an Emmy nomination. He sits down with Gully Flowers to talk about what happens when a creative decides the brief is too late, and the only way to do better work is to move upstream. They cover what the agency model got wrong, why it was an operating issue and not a talent issue, what a real in-house team is and is not, why physical craft matters more in the AI era, and what OpenAI's merch program reveals about modern brand building. A conversation for anyone leading creative work inside a brand, agency, or startup right now.

Craig Allen on Old Spice, Skittles, and Protecting the Creative Weirdos

Craig Allen wrote the Skittles spot where a man accidentally murders his family with rainbow candy. He helped make the Old Spice response campaign ; 286 videos in 36 hours, one every 7 minutes, until they broke YouTube. Then he left Wieden+Kennedy, asked Dan Wieden what to call his new agency, and got told every name was stupid. This week on Second Wind, the founder and CCO of CALLEN sits down with Gully Flowers and Kerrie Finch to talk about how to sell ideas that scare clients to death. Inside the episode: - Why the best risky ideas are “stupid smart” — and how to make a CMO feel dumb for not buying them - The real story behind the Skittles Touch shoot: explosives, cops, a $$$$ glass desk filled with hundreds of thousands of real Skittles, and one PA running through the shot - How a six-person writers’ room turned Old Spice into the fastest creative operation in advertising history - Why Dan Wieden made him put his own name on the agency (and why it changed how he works) - The case for fun as a strategic weapon, not a vibe - What independent agencies have to do now that the holding cos have stopped pretending to care about creativity Craig has won two Cannes Grand Prix, the Grand Effie, Best in Show at The One Show, two black D&AD pencils, an Emmy, and was once named one of the 50 sexiest creatives in the world by Creativity Magazine. We do not let him forget it. Second Wind is a Webby Honoree podcast at the intersection of creativity, leadership, and advertising. Hosted by Gully Flowers and Kerrie Finch of AKA. New episodes fortnightly. Leave a review if it landed.

Eric Kallman on Old Spice, Skittles, and the Campaign That Almost Died

Eric Kallman is the co-founder and chief creative officer of Erich & Kallman, the independent agency behind standout work for brands like Reese’s, King’s Hawaiian, Franzia, Toyota and more. Before that, he helped create some of the most iconic advertising of the last two decades, including Old Spice, Skittles, Little Caesars, Kayak and Ragu. Erich & Kallman was named Ad Age’s 2024 Small Agency of the Year and was later recognized as a 2025 A-List standout. In this episode of Second Wind, Eric talks about how Old Spice almost died before it changed culture, why absurd work only works when the product truth is dead simple, and what most young creatives are skipping when they chase shortcuts. He gets into the discipline behind funny advertising, the value of silence in the creative process, why six weeks and 250 scripts used to be normal, and how AI can help if it gives creatives more time to think instead of less. Topics include Old Spice, Skittles, creative discipline, copywriting, campaign craft, small agencies, advertising fundamentals, AI in creative work, and what it takes to make funny ads that actually sell.