How New Jersey Tries to Destroy Gun Owners (ft. Tony Simon)

The Rifle the Industry Was Too Scared to Build (ft. One Horse)

This week, John and Kailey sit down with Drew and Jeremy from One Horse to talk about building a 100% American-made AR that any gun owner can afford, and to drop a major announcement you won't want to miss. From 13 years at Anderson to launching their own brand in eight months, they break down what the "poverty pony" label gets wrong, how a quality American-made rifle lands at around $600, and why they refuse to chase the race to the bottom. ___________ Register for GOALS GOA's 50th Anniversary, August 1–2 in Des Moines, IA. Tickets at gunowners.org/goals. ----------------------- Special thanks to our sponsor for supporting this season! Ammo Squared -The smarter way to stockpile ammo, one round at a time. Start your ammo savings today Patriot Mobile – Get 1 month free with code “GOA” at checkout on their website! Right To Bear - Use code “GOA” for 15% off Life Membership

The Coolest Job in the Firearms Industry (ft. caliber.row)

Alex from Caliber Row joins hosts Kaylee and John to talk about what she calls one of the coolest jobs in the firearms industry: photographing and filming brands. Alex runs Caliber Row, where she specializes in photography, videography, and brand marketing for firearms companies. Her path started in Chicago, where she grew up on the Southside and shot in the fashion industry with agencies like Wilhelmina, Factor, and Ford. She applied on a whim to a job at apparel company GrunStyle, got hired despite limited firearms experience, ran its photography department, and stayed with the company for six years, moving with it from Chicago to Texas and later to Arizona. Much of the conversation is about women coming into a male-dominated industry. Alex says women are entering the space more than ever, and most of them are genuinely excited, educated, and skilled shooters. She also pushes back on a mindset she sees in some women who want to dominate or exclude men, arguing the industry should be a respected, equal space and that men built it. Kaylee, who is five feet tall and wears a child-size large glove, talks about how few options existed for someone her size when she bought her first gun, and how the influx of new gun owners has driven innovation and better ergonomics, pointing to firearms like the EAA tip-up and the Smith and Wesson EZ that work for people with limited mobility. Both hosts and Alex agree the community is growing stronger, not weaker, and that the Second Amendment community is made of many different subgroups that should row in the same direction. Alex describes the impact photography has in reaching people who are gun curious or hesitant, using her own story of moving from anti-gun Chicago to pro-gun Texas, where people showed her the ropes. She talks about acting as a fly on the wall on shoots, keeping the focus on the brand and the people rather than herself, and about how shoots bring veterans and groups together. She shares her favorite and wildest shoots, including photographing skydivers in a circle from the air and being on a C-130 and a Sherman tank, and she walks through her growing collection from the Glock 43X to a SIG P320 Spectre Comp Blackout, an MP5, and a POF Rogue she shoots in accurate AR matches. The episode closes with a spicy segment on flying with firearms, where John and Kaylee hammer the lack of standard TSA rules airport to airport, a TSA website policy change that conflicts with the law requiring the owner to be present, theft of gear in transit, and the need for federal protections when a flight gets rerouted into an anti-gun state. QUESTIONS THIS EPISODE ANSWERS WHAT IS CALIBER ROW AND WHAT DOES ALEX DO IN THE FIREARMS INDUSTRY? Caliber Row is Alex's company, where she specializes in photography, videography, and brand marketing for firearms companies. She tells brands' stories visually, capturing the brand and its people rather than putting herself in the frame. HOW DID ALEX GO FROM SHOOTING FASHION IN CHICAGO TO FIREARMS PHOTOGRAPHY? Alex shot fashion in Chicago with agencies like Wilhelmina, Factor, and Ford. She applied on a whim to apparel company GrunStyle, was hired despite limited firearms experience, ran its photography department, and stayed six years as it moved from Chicago to Texas to Arizona. WHAT IS IT LIKE TO BE A WOMAN ENTERING A MALE-DOMINATED FIREARMS INDUSTRY? Alex says women are entering the space more than ever and most are genuinely excited, educated, and skilled shooters. She argues the industry should be a respected, equal space and pushes back on the mindset that women should dominate or exclude men. HOW HAS THE GROWTH OF NEW GUN OWNERS CHANGED FIREARM DESIGN AND ERGONOMICS? The influx of new gun owners has driven innovation and better ergonomics for people who were underserved before. Hosts point to firearms like the EAA tip-up and the Smith and Wesson EZ that work well for shooters with smaller hands or limited mobility. HOW CAN PHOTOGRAPHY AND STORYTELLING REACH PEOPLE WHO ARE HESITANT OR GUN CURIOUS? Alex believes photography and videography make the space relatable and remind people they share common ground. She draws on her own move from anti-gun Chicago to pro-gun Texas, where people showed her the ropes, to connect with those who are hesitant or curious. WHAT WERE THE WILDEST AND COOLEST SHOOTS ALEX HAS EVER CAPTURED? Alex's most memorable shoots include photographing skydivers in a circle from the air and working on a C-130 and a Sherman tank. She describes acting as a fly on the wall, keeping the focus on the brand and the people in front of her. WHAT FIREARMS ARE IN ALEX'S PERSONAL COLLECTION, STARTING WITH HER FIRST GUN? Alex's first firearm was a Glock 43X, and her collection has grown to include a SIG P320 Spectre Comp Blackout, an MP5, and a POF Rogue she shoots in accurate AR matches. WHAT PROBLEMS DO GUN OWNERS FACE WHEN FLYING WITH FIREARMS THROUGH TSA? The hosts hammer the lack of standard TSA rules from airport to airport, a TSA website policy change that conflicts with the law requiring the owner to be present, and theft of gear in transit. They call for federal protections when a flight gets rerouted into an anti-gun state. CHAPTERS * 00:00 — Welcome and meet Alex from Caliber Row * 00:28 — What Caliber Row is and what Alex shoots * 01:12 — From Chicago fashion to GrunStyle and firearms * 03:13 — Being a woman entering the firearms industry * 05:30 — Wildest shoots: skydivers, C-130, Sherman tank * 07:38 — Equality, not dominance, for women in the space * 11:01 — A growing, more diverse industry and innovation * 17:06 — Cliques and gatekeeping in the community * 18:58 — The Second Amendment community is not monolithic * 24:24 — How photography reaches the gun curious * 27:18 — Alex's character arc from anti-gun to pro-gun * 30:11 — Alex's collection from Glock 43X to MP5 and POF * 32:42 — Spicy segment: flying with firearms and TSA * 43:57 — Where to find Alex and GOALS Convention ABOUT THE GUEST Alex is the founder of Caliber Row, where she specializes in photography, videography, and brand marketing within the firearms industry. Born and raised on the Southside of Chicago, she started out in the fashion industry, shooting for agencies including Wilhelmina, Factor, and Ford. She joined apparel company GrunStyle, ran its photography department, and stayed with the company for six years, moving with it from Chicago to Texas and later to Arizona. She grew up in a military family and has been doing firearms photography for over ten years. Her first firearm was a Glock 43X, and her collection now includes a SIG P320 Spectre Comp Blackout, an MP5, and a POF Rogue she shoots in accurate AR matches. KEY QUOTES > "So I am here to tell all y' all stories visually and creatively to represent your brands." — Alex > "I had to prove that I knew what I was talking about and what I was shooting and the quality of things" — Alex > "The day you stop learning is I think the day you become complacent." — Alex > "we're seeing more of a community built between the relationship of the company and the end consumer" — Kaylee > "photography and videography can be a huge source of visualization to just be relatable to people and to remind people that we all share the same space" — Alex > "once you want to learn, I think it's not, it's not as scary as people think it is" — Alex

How a Single Patch Built a Whole Business (ft. Patch Ops)

Tim and Michelle from Patch Ops join Kaylee and John on State of the Second to tell the story of how a single patch grew into a business. It started in 2018, when the couple wanted to send their kids to private school and Tim calculated they needed to make $50 more a day to afford it. Tim, a Marine, had been introduced to patches by an Army friend, and there was nothing on the market for Marines at the time. He made an 0331 MOS patch because he wanted one for himself, sent it to his fellow Marines, and the demand kept climbing. About three months after they launched, the Marine Corps put Velcro on its gear, and the market for Marine Corps patches opened up fast. Patch Ops turns eight years old in a couple months and has grown every year, starting from a $3,000 nest egg. The conversation moves into how the company operates and why staying close to the community matters. Tim says he is part of his own customer base, so if a design makes him laugh, he trusts that others will feel the same. The team works fast on pop culture moments, posting a Let's Go Brandon design within two hours of the moment. They test ideas as stickers and shirts first, and the ones that get a response become patches. Michelle, who came from the corporate world and left it during COVID to run day-to-day operations, explains the value of having both trickle sellers and fast sellers so the business stays afloat between hits. Tim describes their model as profit by volume rather than chasing one big order, and says he won't sacrifice his values for profit. Much of the episode is a broader talk about activism, media, and standing up for the Second Amendment. Tim argues that likes don't equal rights and pushes influencers to influence their own communities first. Kaylee points to GOA's tools, including emailing your congressman in about 30 seconds and a voting scorecard that helps people check a representative's actual record. Both sides warn about bills written to play on emotion, with firearms regulations hidden inside unrelated legislation, and about a media environment that rewards outrage over reason. They also push back on cancel culture and the loss of humor, and on judging people on their own side by how they look. Patch Ops closes by sharing new NFC-chip patches they filed a patent for, their custom and retail focus, and the piece of candy that comes in every order. QUESTIONS THIS EPISODE ANSWERS HOW DID PATCH OPS GET STARTED, AND WHAT WAS THE ORIGINAL GOAL BEHIND IT? Patch Ops began in 2018 when Tim and Michelle wanted to send their kids to private school and calculated they needed to make about $50 more a day to afford it. Tim, a Marine, made an 0331 MOS patch he wanted for himself, sent it to fellow Marines, and demand kept climbing from there. WHY WAS THERE A GAP IN THE MARKET FOR MARINE CORPS PATCHES WHEN THE COMPANY LAUNCHED? When Patch Ops started, there was nothing on the market made for Marines. About three months after launch the Marine Corps put Velcro on its gear, which opened the market for Marine Corps patches almost overnight. HOW DOES PATCH OPS DECIDE WHICH POP CULTURE MOMENTS ARE WORTH TURNING INTO A PATCH? Tim treats himself as part of the customer base, so if a design makes him laugh he trusts others will feel the same. The team moves fast, posting a Let's Go Brandon design within two hours of the moment. HOW DOES THE COMPANY TEST NEW DESIGNS BEFORE COMMITTING TO PRODUCING THEM? Patch Ops tests ideas as stickers and shirts first, and the designs that get a strong response become patches. This lets the team see what lands before committing to a full patch run. WHAT DOES TIM MEAN BY PROFIT BY VOLUME, AND WHY WON'T HE CHASE THE BIG SINGLE ORDER? Tim describes the model as profit by volume rather than chasing one big order, with both trickle sellers and fast sellers keeping the business afloat between hits. He says he won't sacrifice his values for profit. WHY DOES TIM SAY LIKES DON'T EQUAL RIGHTS, AND WHAT DOES HE WANT INFLUENCERS TO DO? Tim argues that likes don't equal rights and pushes influencers to influence their own communities first rather than just chasing engagement. The point is to turn online attention into real action for the Second Amendment, or 2A. HOW DO LAWMAKERS HIDE GUN CONTROL INSIDE UNRELATED BILLS, AND HOW DOES GUN OWNERS OF AMERICA HELP PEOPLE SEE THROUGH IT? Both sides warn that firearms regulations get hidden inside unrelated legislation written to play on emotion. Kaylee points to Gun Owners of America tools, including emailing your congressman in about 30 seconds and a voting scorecard that shows a representative's actual record. WHAT IS THE NEW NFC-CHIP PATCH TECHNOLOGY PATCH OPS FILED A PATENT FOR? Patch Ops shared new NFC-chip patches they filed a patent for, alongside their custom and retail focus. The episode notes a piece of candy comes in every order. CHAPTERS * 00:00 — Welcome and meet Tim and Michelle from Patch Ops * 00:19 — The 2018 origin story and the $50-a-day goal * 01:28 — Velcro on Marine gear opens the market * 02:12 — Betting the $3,000 nest egg and women in the 2A * 04:53 — From military patches into pop culture * 08:55 — Memes, trends, and turning designs around in two hours * 11:18 — Trickle sellers versus fast sellers * 13:51 — Staying close to the community over chasing the dollar * 17:52 — Be the example and influence your own community first * 20:53 — Momentum and emailing Congress in 30 seconds * 28:32 — How bills hide gun control and play on emotion * 38:07 — From the Soapbox: comedy, cancel culture, and taking a joke * 42:52 — Welcoming people in instead of pushing them out * 46:50 — NFC-chip patches, custom work, and the candy in every order ABOUT THE GUEST Tim is a co-founder of Patch Ops and a Marine Corps veteran who served in the infantry as a machine gunner, with the MOS 0331. He started the company in 2018 after an Army friend introduced him to patches, beginning with a Marine MOS patch he wanted for himself. He also runs another company as an engineer. Michelle co-founded Patch Ops and runs the day-to-day operations. She came from the corporate world and left it during COVID, about four years before this episode, to work for the company full time, and she is married to Tim. The couple is active politically at the local and state level. KEY QUOTES > "we needed to make $50 more a day to afford the private school system" — Tim > "we're part of our own customer base" — Tim > "I'm not going to sacrifice my values for profit" — Tim > "likes don't equal rights" — Tim > "Encourage creates courage" — Michelle > "The Constitution restricts the government, not the people" — Tim

How New Jersey Tries to Destroy Gun Owners (ft. Tony Simon)

Tony Simon, founder of the 2A Diversity Shoot, joins John and Kaylee to trace how he went from a gun kid on a Virginia farm to one of the most active Second Amendment advocates in New Jersey. He grew up on a farm in Virginia, shot on his high school air rifle team, and joined the Marine Corps. After getting out he moved to New Jersey, where the state's firearms ID card requirements stalled his gun ownership. A 2012 class with an NRA certified instructor friend rekindled it. He became an NRA certified instructor in rifle, pistol, and shotgun, and when Sandy Hook hit and New Jersey's legislature put forward 76 bills to impede gun rights, he got into advocacy. As the only black guy testifying out of 200 people, he realized the movement needed more people who looked like him to speak up. That realization became the 2A Diversity Shoot. In 2015 he partnered with Anthony Colandro of the Gun for Hire range to bring in people who don't fit the assumed gun owner profile, teach them firearms law, and connect them with Second Amendment advocates. The first event drew four people out of the 27 who said they would come, plus a New Jersey State Police firearms officer who showed up posing as a regular attendee. Colandro pushed him to keep running it until the room filled, then overfilled past fire code. Today Tony runs diversity shoots every two weeks at four different ranges across New Jersey, ran one in Pennsylvania for three years, and did a shoot in Omaha with the Nebraska Firearms Owners Association, and the events now sell out. Each event mixes pizza, raffle prizes, jokes, and a lot of shooting, with the goal of normalizing firearms ownership for people of every background. The conversation turns to a blunt message about complacency. Tony, originally from Virginia, describes watching his home state go from a place that would march on the Capitol to one that rolled over because people stopped participating and stopped voting in local and primary elections. He argues that local elections matter more than the presidential race, that gun owners say all the right things but perform none of the actions, and that even people worried about being put on a list can still fund others' work, vote, and be responsible gun owners. The From the Soapbox segment gets spicy, including Tony's take questioning how 'don't tread on me' squares with backing the thin blue line, and a running High Point versus Staccato bit. Kaylee closes with her own take that gun owners are getting elections wrong by accepting apathy, noting GOA's website lets you act in about 33 seconds and that five minutes a week could be transformative. QUESTIONS THIS EPISODE ANSWERS HOW DID TONY SIMON GET INTO FIREARMS AND SECOND AMENDMENT ADVOCACY? Tony Simon grew up on a Virginia farm, shot on his high school air rifle team, and served in the Marine Corps before moving to New Jersey. A 2012 class with an NRA certified instructor friend rekindled his interest, and after Sandy Hook prompted 76 New Jersey bills he saw as anti-gun, he got into advocacy. WHAT IS THE 2A DIVERSITY SHOOT AND HOW DID IT START? The 2A Diversity Shoot is a series of events that bring in people who don't fit the assumed gun owner profile, teach them firearms law, and connect them with Second Amendment advocates. Tony Simon launched it in 2015 after partnering with Anthony Colandro of the Gun for Hire range. WHY DOES TONY SIMON SAY LOCAL AND PRIMARY ELECTIONS MATTER MORE THAN THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION? Tony Simon argues that local and primary elections decide the policies and officials closest to gun owners, so they carry more weight than the presidential race. He says gun owners say all the right things but perform none of the actions, and that consistent local participation is what protects rights. WHAT LESSON DOES TONY SIMON DRAW FROM VIRGINIA'S SHIFT ON GUN LAWS? Tony Simon watched his home state of Virginia go from a place that would march on the Capitol to one that rolled over once people stopped voting in local and primary elections. His takeaway is that complacency, not a single election, is what flips a state's gun politics. HOW CAN GUN OWNERS TAKE ACTION EVEN IF THEY'RE WORRIED ABOUT BEING PUT ON A LIST? Tony Simon says even people worried about being on a list can still fund other advocates' work, vote, and be responsible gun owners. Kaylee adds that Gun Owners of America's website lets you act in about 33 seconds, and that five minutes a week could be transformative. WHAT HAPPENED AT THE FIRST DIVERSITY SHOOT EVENT? The first event drew four people out of the 27 who said they would attend, plus a New Jersey State Police firearms officer who showed up posing as a regular attendee. Anthony Colandro pushed Tony Simon to keep running it until the room filled, and it later overfilled past fire code. HOW BIG HAS THE 2A DIVERSITY SHOOT GROWN? Tony Simon now runs diversity shoots every two weeks at four New Jersey ranges, ran events in Pennsylvania for three years, and held one in Omaha with the Nebraska Firearms Owners Association. The sold-out events mix shooting with pizza, raffles, and jokes to normalize firearms ownership for everyone. WHERE CAN PEOPLE FIND THE 2A DIVERSITY SHOOT AND FOLLOW TONY SIMON? Tony Simon runs the 2A Diversity Shoot at diversityshoot.com and can be followed on Instagram at simonsaystrain. CHAPTERS * 00:00 — Meet Tony Simon, the gun bunny * 01:55 — From a Virginia farm to New Jersey gun laws * 03:30 — Sandy Hook, 76 bills, and getting into advocacy * 04:19 — Starting the diversity shoot with Anthony Colandro * 05:39 — The first event and the undercover cop * 07:08 — Growing through COVID and across the state * 09:40 — Have you seen victories in New Jersey * 10:54 — Fight back: vote local and primaries * 13:30 — How fast a state turns from red to blue * 16:12 — Holding the pro-2A side accountable * 19:33 — Normalizing firearms for every background * 27:53 — From the Soapbox: spicy takes * 30:38 — Apathy, ignorance, and 33 seconds to act * 36:18 — Where to find Tony and goodbyes ABOUT THE GUEST Tony Simon is the founder of the 2A Diversity Shoot (diversityshoot.com). Born and raised on a farm in Virginia, he shot on his high school air rifle team and joined the Marine Corps. After getting out, he moved to New Jersey, where firearms ID card requirements stalled his gun ownership. In 2012 he took a class from an NRA certified instructor friend and became an NRA certified instructor himself in rifle, pistol, and shotgun. After Sandy Hook, when New Jersey's legislature put forward 76 bills he saw as impeding gun rights, he got into advocacy and spent three years testifying, often as the only black person out of 200 people testifying. In 2015 he partnered with Anthony Colandro of the Gun for Hire range to launch the diversity shoot. He now runs events every two weeks at four ranges across New Jersey, ran events in Pennsylvania for three years, and did a diversity shoot in Omaha with the Nebraska Firearms Owners Association. He says he has been in New Jersey since the early 90s. KEY QUOTES > "Being a patriot isn't a part time job." — Tony Simon > "Your local election is more important than the presidential election." — Tony Simon > "We have so many gun owners. Again, they say all the right things, but they perform none of the actions." — Tony Simon > "When you say don't tread on me, but you support the thin blue line, who do you think's doing the treading?" — Tony Simon > "We have decided that apathy is acceptable and then we want to complain when things happen to the second amendment rather than understanding that ignorance is a curable disease." — Kaylee > "I owe no loyalty to a political party." — Tony Simon

The Gun That Could Change Recoil Forever (ft. Rock Island Armory)

John McClane of Rock Island Armory joins hosts Kaylee and John to talk about how a budget-friendly firearms company from the Philippines built a recoil system he believes other manufacturers will copy once the patent runs out. John shares his path into the industry, from a closet gun owner who hid his first rifle under the bed for a year and a half, to a C-class USPSA shooter, to multiple Grand Master cards on Team Armscore. A chance EMT call between Vegas and Pahrump introduced him to the owner's family at Armscore and Rock Island, which led to a developmental shooting program, a sponsorship, and eventually his role as national training manager. The conversation centers on the company's product philosophy and its newest guns. John explains the late CEO Martin Tuason's stance on keeping firearms reliable and affordable, and why Rock Island refuses to raise prices just to look more expensive. He walks through the patented RVS recoil system in the 5.0, a pistol that took seven years to develop and that he says shoots like it has a compensator with a standard slide and barrel. He also covers the new Pack Out folding firearm in 14-inch and 18-inch barrel versions, the RIA USA factory in Cedar City, and the .22 TCM round and its 9R redesign that now fits Glock and CZ magazines. The TCM line is held back only by SAAMI spec, which the company is working to finalize. The episode closes with the From the Soapbox segment on a knowledge gap among post-COVID first-time gun owners. John argues the information is out there and the real problem is whether people seek it and whether the person behind the gun counter has the patience to help. He makes the case that one bad interaction can turn a new shooter off for good, and that the community gets stronger when experienced owners remember what it felt like to know nothing. He also explains Arms Corps U, his YouTube broadcast built to answer customer questions and drive demand for Rock Island products by name through distributors. QUESTIONS THIS EPISODE ANSWERS HOW DID JOHN MCCLANE GO FROM A SELF-DESCRIBED CLOSET GUN OWNER TO A SPONSORED TEAM ARMSCORE COMPETITOR? He hid his first rifle under his bed for a year and a half, then shot USPSA as a C-class competitor. A chance EMT call near Pahrump connected him to the Armscore and Rock Island owner's family, leading to a developmental program, a sponsorship, and his role as national training manager. WHAT IS THE RVS RECOIL SYSTEM IN THE 5.0, AND WHY DOES JOHN THINK IT COULD BECOME AN INDUSTRY STANDARD? The RVS is a patented recoil system in Rock Island Armory's 5.0 pistol, which took seven years to develop and, McClane says, shoots like it has a compensator while using a standard slide and barrel. He believes that once the patent runs out, other manufacturers will copy the system and make it the new standard. WHY DOES ROCK ISLAND ARMORY KEEP ITS PRICES LOW INSTEAD OF RAISING THEM TO SEEM MORE PREMIUM? McClane points to late CEO Martin Tuason's philosophy of keeping firearms reliable and affordable. The company refuses to raise prices just to look more expensive, because a higher price could put a gun out of reach for a buyer who would otherwise afford it. WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ROCK ISLAND AND ROCK ISLAND ARMORY USA? Rock Island Armory traces to a budget-friendly firearms company from the Philippines, while Rock Island Armory USA is the brand's domestic factory operation in Cedar City. HOW DOES THE PACK OUT FOLDING FIREARM WORK, AND WHAT ARE THE TWO BARREL VERSIONS? The Pack Out is a new folding firearm from Rock Island Armory, offered in a 14-inch barrel version and an 18-inch barrel version. WHAT IS THE .22 TCM ROUND, AND WHY IS SAAMI SPEC HOLDING IT BACK? The .22 TCM is a Rock Island Armory cartridge whose 9R redesign now fits Glock and CZ magazines. Its broader rollout is held back only by SAAMI spec, which the company is still working to finalize. IS THERE A KNOWLEDGE GAP WITH POST-COVID FIRST-TIME GUN OWNERS, AND WHOSE RESPONSIBILITY IS IT TO CLOSE IT? McClane argues the information is already out there, so the real questions are whether new owners seek it out and whether the person behind the gun counter has the patience to help. He says one bad interaction can turn a new shooter off for good. CHAPTERS * 00:00 — Welcome and the retired fancy pants * 01:16 — John's backstory and getting into the industry * 02:43 — From C class to Team Armscore sponsorship * 04:48 — Remembering CEO Martin Tuason * 07:42 — Reliable and affordable: the pricing philosophy * 10:57 — RIA USA, Cedar City, and the Pack Out * 13:34 — The patented RVS recoil system in the 5.0 * 15:10 — From custom build to production gun * 20:19 — Will fear of pushback hold back innovation? * 22:00 — The .22 TCM round and the 9R redesign * 28:18 — Soapbox: the post-COVID knowledge gap * 32:15 — Patience behind the gun counter * 38:02 — Arms Corps U and asking for products by name * 41:26 — Where to find John and Rock Island ABOUT THE GUEST John McClane is the national training manager at Rock Island Armory / Armscore, a role created for him after years as a sponsored competitor. He started shooting USPSA at the local level as a C-class shooter and has since earned multiple Grand Master cards, competing on Team Armscore and placing on the podium at Three Gun Nation and the Single Stack Nationals. He first met the owner's family of Armscore and Rock Island while working as an EMT for American Medical Response, responding to a car accident between Vegas and Pahrump. He shot the 5.0 at the world shoot in South Africa. He also runs Arms Corps U, a YouTube broadcast, and FPS Holsters, a holster company he started in his garage. KEY QUOTES > "So it all started when my parents told me that guns were bad." — John McClane > "I bought my first rifle, and I hid it under my bed for a year and a half without my parents knowing." — John McClane > "If I up the price by $100, someone might not be able to afford my gun anymore." — John McClane > "I'm honestly a firm believer that once our patent runs out on that RVs recoil system, I would not be surprised if you started seeing that recoil system becoming the new standard for a lot of companies." — John McClane > "That's actually just the start of your problems because in order to develop that gun and create the first version of it took you three years." — John McClane > "So I think the information's out there. The question is whether or not the person wants to seek it out." — John McClane > "You can make a lifetime customer out of a bad experience if you handle it correctly." — John McClane > "We can make this community so much stronger if we just stopped self destructing ourselves." — John McClane