How DeepSeek leveraged Qwen and Llama to build its model in $5M

The Creator of Spring Thinks You Can't Code Serious Software With AI

Rod Johnson — the creator of Spring Framework and founder of Embabel — joins Simon Maple on the AI Native Dev Podcast to share his unfiltered take on where enterprise AI is actually heading. In this episode, Rod breaks down why enterprises are making a huge mistake rewriting Java apps in Python, why vibe coding will destroy your codebase if left unchecked, and why this might be the last generation of frameworks that developers ever choose for themselves. Rod also pulls back the curtain on Embabel — the new JVM-native agentic framework he's building — including how it borrows its planning algorithm from NPC AI in video games, why he's skeptical of MCP despite its hype, and the AI failure pattern he keeps seeing in large enterprises. Whether you're a Java developer navigating the AI wave or a tech lead trying to figure out where to actually invest, this is essential listening. Topics covered: 0:00 Intro — Rod Johnson, Spring creator, returns to building 5:16 PhD in 19th century Parisian piano music (yes, really) 6:15 What made Rod come back and build Embabel 7:36 "The universe would end before Python could execute inference" 13:08 The #1 enterprise AI failure pattern Rod keeps seeing 16:23 "You cannot vibe code serious software" 19:37 Why Embabel uses a video game NPC planning algorithm 27:47 Why Rod is an MCP skeptic 53:54 "This is the last wave of frameworks chosen by people" Links: 🔗 Embabel: https://embabel.com 🎟 AI Native Dev London (June 1–2): https://ainativedev.io — use code POD30 for 30% off. Subscribe for weekly conversations with the engineers and founders building the future of AI-native development. Join the AI Native Dev Community on Discord: https://tessl.co/4ghikjh Ask us questions: podcast@tessl.io

What OpenAI, Stripe & ElevenLabs Devs Do Differently Now | AI Native Dev

How aligned are teams at Google DeepMind, OpenAI, Stripe, and ElevenLabs on what’s changing in software development? At AI Engineer London, with 100+ speakers and 1000+ engineers in the room, Simon Maple pulls together perspectives from across the ecosystem to understand where AI-native development is heading. • why traditional CI/CD “is dead” • the growing need for automated code review and guardrails • the move from more context is better to right context at the right time • the difference between general-purpose models vs specialized domain models To catch conversations like these in person, register for AI DevCon in London on 1st and 2nd June 2026 [https://ainativedevcon.io]. Join the AI Native Dev Community on Discord: https://tessl.co/4ghikjh Ask us questions: podcast@tessl.io

Logan Kilpatrick on Who Ships AGI, DeepMind and the Problem With More Software

"If you could have a system that could build anything with code, humans can't compete on the same level. That's narrow superintelligence, and we're close." In this episode of AI Native Dev, Simon Maple [https://www.linkedin.com/in/simonmaple/] sits down with Logan Kilpatrick [https://www.linkedin.com/in/logankilpatrick/], who spent years at OpenAI working alongside Sam Altman before moving to Google DeepMind [https://www.linkedin.com/company/googledeepmind/] as Group Product Manager.  They get into: * There will be 100x more developers in the world because of AI * AGI will be a product, not a model * The way you used AI tools three months ago is already wrong * What's actually changing inside the Gemini team and why it matters for developers building with it today The developers who win won't be the ones who mastered today's tools. They'll be the ones who never stopped learning the new ones. Building AI-native? AI DevCon [https://tessl.io/devcon/] is coming to London, 1st and 2nd June 2026: https://tessl.io/devcon/ [https://tessl.io/devcon/] Connect with us here: * Simon Maple: https://www.linkedin.com/in/simonmaple/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/simonmaple/] * Logan Kilpatrick: https://www.linkedin.com/in/logankilpatrick/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/logankilpatrick/] * Google DeepMind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/googledeepmind/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/googledeepmind/] * Tessl: https://www.linkedin.com/company/tesslio/?originalSubdomain=uk [https://www.linkedin.com/company/tesslio/?originalSubdomain=uk] Join the AI Native Dev Community on Discord: https://tessl.co/4ghikjh Ask us questions: podcast@tessl.io

Everything 100 Episodes Revealed About AI Native Dev

When did writing code stop being the job and start being the hobby? One hundred episodes in, Guy Podjarny and Simon Maple pull the clips, check the predictions, and trace the through line across conversations with guests from Datadog, ElevenLabs, GitHub, and more. They get into: * The move from spec-driven to context-driven development * Why humans become the bottleneck in code review * What changes when agents run the SDLC end-to-end * Adoption across orgs vs depth of actual usage Thanks to every guest and every listener who made this possible. On to the next hundred. Want to have these conversations in person? AI DevCon is coming to London on 1st and 2nd June, 2026. Book your tickets here - https://tessl.io/devcon/ [https://tessl.io/devcon/] Connect with us here:  1. Guy Podjarny- https://www.linkedin.com/in/guypo/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/guypo/] 2. Simon Maple- https://www.linkedin.com/in/simonmaple/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/simonmaple/] 3. Tessl- https://www.linkedin.com/company/tesslio/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/tesslio/] 4. AI Native Dev- https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/ai-native-dev/ [https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/ai-native-dev/] Join the AI Native Dev Community on Discord: https://tessl.co/4ghikjh Ask us questions: podcast@tessl.io

How DeepSeek leveraged Qwen and Llama to build its model in $5M

Meta’s Llama might not actually be open source AI, and the developers building on it have no idea. In this episode of AI Native Dev, Simon Maple [https://www.linkedin.com/in/simonmaple/] sits down with Amanda Brock [https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandabrocktech/], CEO of OpenUK [https://www.linkedin.com/company/openuktechnology/?originalSubdomain=uk], to break down what open source actually means in the age of AI and why most of the industry is getting it wrong. They get into: * what open washing is and why it is happening across major models right now * how DeepSeek built a frontier model for $5 million instead of $100 million * why Chinese developers are already on Kimi and the west is sleeping on it * what the west needs to learn from China's open source strategy before it is too late Eight companies already control the world's digital infrastructure. We cannot let that happen again with AI. Connect with us here: * Simon Maple: https://www.linkedin.com/in/simonmaple/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/simonmaple/] * Amanda Brock: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandabrocktech/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandabrocktech/] * OpenUK: https://www.linkedin.com/company/openuktechnology/?originalSubdomain=uk [https://www.linkedin.com/company/openuktechnology/?originalSubdomain=uk] * Tessl: https://www.linkedin.com/company/tesslio/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/tesslio/] Join the AI Native Dev Community on Discord: https://tessl.co/4ghikjh Ask us questions: podcast@tessl.io