354: Bringing Psychological Safety to Life for Leaders with Minette Norman and Karolin Helbig

354: Bringing Psychological Safety to Life for Leaders with Minette Norman and Karolin Helbig

How do we actually live out psychological safety, rather than just talking about it as some grand, academic theory? A couple of years ago, Minette Norman and Karolin Helbig came out with the Psychological Safety Playbook. I've been using her practical phrases in my own training sessions ever since (with full credit, of course!). But as any facilitator, parent, or human being knows, putting this stuff into practice is darn hard. You want to be the supportive expert, but then real-world pressures—like meeting targets, sudden organizational shifts, or just plain old fear of looking foolish—kick in. That's why I sat down with them to talk about their new follow-up book. They wrote it because change-makers kept coming to them on tour, saying, "Okay, we read the basics, but now we're hitting roadblocks. What next?" What I love about their approach is that it's completely "no fluff." They give us real, actionable strategies to bake inclusion right into the DNA of our everyday work life, even when things get a little messy. Key Themes from the Discussion Courage as Vulnerability, Not Heroics. True leadership in a psychologically safe environment isn't about having a flawless track record or acting like a superhero. It requires the humility to acknowledge that you don't have all the answers and to actively invite your team to fill in your blind spots. "It's not about the big heroic acts. It's really about the courage to be vulnerable, for example. Particularly as a leader, that's not easy to do..." — Karolin Helbig The Intentional Practice of Listening. Listening is often treated as an obvious, baseline skill, but true listening requires a conscious commitment to sit with silence and process what is being said, rather than rushing to respond or dominate the room. "It sounds so obvious that we all know how to do it... and it is so darn hard, right? It really is. And we often think we're listening when we're not." — Minette Norman Recognizing Personal Emotional Triggers. Building psychological safety is a slow process that can be shattered instantly by an unmanaged, defensive reaction. Developing self-awareness around your own physical stress signals helps create a vital pause between a trigger and your response. "Psychological safety is really slow to build and quick to break. And if you can avoid these breaks. By becoming more aware of your reactions and handling them more skillfully, then a lot is gained." — Karolin Helbig Shifting the Narrative Around Failure. For teams to innovate, leaders must actively destigmatize mistakes. This means moving away from finger-pointing and instead treating unexpected outcomes as valuable learning experiments, a process that must be modeled from the top down. "If you're trying something new, and certainly if we're trying to innovate, there will be failure along the way. So the question is, how quickly can we learn from them and improve and move forward?" — Minette Norman Designing for Inclusion via Rotating Roles. Inclusion doesn't happen by accident; it has to be deliberately engineered into team dynamics. Using a rotating role like an "Inclusion Booster" ensures that monitoring the health of a meeting becomes a shared team habit rather than solely the leader's responsibility. "Meetings by default are not inclusive. So we need to design them for inclusion. The idea of the inclusion booster is just to have a rotating role of somebody in facilitating the meeting and paying attention that we actually behave in the way we earlier defined." — Karolin Helbig Actionable Takeaway for Listeners To move your team from theory to practice, introduce the "Inclusion Booster" role into your next recurring meeting. Rotate this responsibility among different team members each week, tasking them with observing meeting dynamics, ensuring equal airtime, and calling out interruptions using a lighthearted tool like the "ELMO" (Enough, Let's Move On) principle. Follow Karolin and Minette at https://thepsychologicalsafetyplaybook.com/

353: Behind the Shiny Objects: Real Inclusivity in a Changing World with Katryn Wright

You might remember Katryn from episode 292, where we dove deep into the behavioral blueprint for inclusion. Well, a lot can happen in a year—or in our current case, since the wild ride of the 2026 election—and the DEI landscape is shifting beneath our feet. I'll admit, when I first started this work ten years ago, I thought we could just shout from the rooftops that inclusion matters and everyone would just magically get it. But as we look at the headlines today, it's clear that "shiny object syndrome" has left us with a lot of noise and not enough real, systemic change. Katryn and I sit down to unpack what global leaders are actually doing right now to push past the performative and get to the heart of what makes workplaces genuinely fair. Key Themes from the Conversation * Moving from Noise to Systemic Change. Organizations frequently focus on highly public, performative declarations of inclusivity rather than restructuring the underlying processes that perpetuate bias. "Organizations were doing a lot of the shiny stuff... doing what we would call noisy things, right? Proclaiming, saying, being public... but obviously that not necessarily translating to real-world change." — Katryn Wright * The Problem with Unconscious Bias Training. Treating broad, one-size-fits-all training modules as a standalone solution is ineffective and can create artificial metrics that trigger cultural backlash. "An awful amount of money was spent on something that the science shows is... ineffective at best, counterproductive at worst." — Katryn Wright * Inclusion as an Aspiration, Not a Default Value. Framing inclusion as a predefined company value mistakenly implies that the work is already complete, whereas framing it as an ongoing aspiration invites employees to actively participate in closing the gap. "When we talk about inclusion as a value, it is not as effective as when we talk about inclusion as an aspirational goal... it suggests that we've been missing a trick to be bringing people on as much as we can." — Katryn Wright * Precision and Data Science in Workplace Fairness. True progress requires identifying the exact inflection points in employee experiences—like hiring, promotion, and retention stages—where disparities emerge, and applying targeted behavioral interventions. "Let's go and be as precise as possible about changing behavior in that exact situation... when we are able to be as precise as possible about which specific behaviors need to change, we can get to those outcomes." — Katryn Wright Actionable Takeaway for Listeners Stop trying to de-bias your entire team all at once with sweeping declarations. Instead, pick one specific process in your daily workflow—whether it's how you audit resumes, run performance reviews, or distribute project assignments—and analyze the data to find where the equity gaps lie. Designing small, targeted interventions at precise moments is how real cultural evolution happens. Follow Katryn at https://www.morethannow.co.uk/

352: Better Leadership Starts with a Better Night of Sleep with Dr. Carlos Nunez

Sad to admit, after 350+ episodes, I have never dedicated a full show to sleep . I'll be the first to admit that I've been doing a ton of deep-diving into sleep lately. Between life changes, career shifts, and navigating perimenopause, my nights haven't exactly been peaceful . In fact, coming off a rough night myself, I'm sitting here with a massive afternoon coffee, fully aware that I reached for a sugary lunch to get through the slump! We've all been trapped in that vicious cycle, right ? But today, we are busting the toxic, old-school corporate narrative that sleeping is lazy or just for babies. To help us break it down, I'm joined by the brilliant Dr. Carlos Nunez, Chief Medical Officer at ResMed . Carlos brings decades of medical expertise—and some truly humbling personal stories—to show us why sleep isn't just a healthy habit. Sleep is the absolute foundation of inclusive, effective leadership and a kinder workplace . Key Themes from the Conversation * The Foundational Pillar of Human Health For decades, society has obsessed over diet and exercise trends, while treating sleep deprivation like a corporate badge of honor . In reality, sleep is the baseline that determines whether those other health goals even happen . "People are starting to realize it's not just one of the three pillars, it's probably the foundation on which the other two pillars sit." — Dr. Carlos Nunez * The Direct Link Between Poor Sleep and Workplace Behavior A severe lack of sleep impairs cognitive function and emotional regulation to a level equivalent to intoxication, which directly drives erratic, negative, or toxic leadership behaviors in the workplace . "I was extremely sleep-deprived, and I remember being in a meeting, and I went off, like, in a way that I've never done before. I probably looked scary to my team because I was so sleep-deprived." — Dr. Carlos Nunez * The Hidden Danger of Digital Engagement While blue light filters are helpful, the real disruptor keeping our minds awake at night is the mental stimulation and chemical rushes from pre-bedtime screen use. "What's worse than the light is the activation of your nervous system. The dopamine hits that you get from doomscrolling TikTok or social media for 30 minutes." — Dr. Carlos Nunez * The Biological Toll of Untreated Sleep Disorders Ignoring long-term sleep issues due to ego or stigma does more than cause daytime fatigue—it starves the body of oxygen and significantly escalates severe cardiovascular and long-term cognitive health risks . "The research shows untreated sleep apnea, within 3 years, you have a 35% chance of dying... Your risk for cardiovascular mortality is 55%." — Dr. Carlos Nunez * The Mind-Quieting Power of Arbitrary Focus When workplace stress and a lack of situational closure spark late-night rumination, shifting the brain toward simple, structured mental exercises can effectively short-circuit intrusive thoughts . "Getting your brain to focus on something that's really not thinking, that's kind of easy to do, all of a sudden, you drift off." — Dr. Carlos Nunez One Actionable Takeaway To protect your health and show up better for your team, establish a strict 30-minute digital wind-down routine before bed. Swap out the late-night doomscrolling or email checking for a period of quiet mindfulness. If your brain starts ruminating on tomorrow's to-do list, physically write down those 3 or 4 lingering tasks on a notepad to trick your mind into a sense of closure, or practice a simple, low-stakes mental word game to help your nervous system gently drift off . Learn more about Carlos' research at https://sleepsurvey.resmed.com/

351: How to Speak Up and Get Your Voice Heard at Work with Daniel Newton

When I started my business, I wanted to create spaces where every single person felt seen, heard, and like they truly belonged . It sounds so beautifully simple on the surface, doesn't it? But as we all know, making sure people feel heard at work can get incredibly messy . This week, I had the absolute pleasure of chatting with a peer of mine from grad school, Daniel Newton, an Associate Professor at the University of Iowa, whose research on workplace engagement is quite literally out of this world . He's spent years studying how people speak up and stay engaged, working with everyone from corporate teams to actual astronauts aboard the International Space Station . Now, I always say that if an astronaut floating in zero gravity can feel ignored by Mission Control, it's okay if your team is struggling to communicate during shift changes ! Daniel and I shared some great laughs about the black box of office suggestion boxes (which usually just collect dust and some very chaotic notes) and how we can all become better allies by lifting each other's ideas . Key Themes from the Conversation * Even Astronauts Struggle to Feel Heard. Feeling heard requires more than just listening. Speaking up requires responsive action or transparent feedback . When leaders or institutions fail to act, it creates a sense of being ignored, even in high-stakes environments like space exploration . "I worked with an astronaut that literally shared an idea with Mission Control and they didn't do anything, so he had to say it again, and then again. Even people that train for years and years, and have the complete trust of NASA, even they don't feel heard in their work sometimes." – Daniel Newton * The Power of the Newcomer Perspective. People often hesitate to speak up because they are new, young, or feel like an imposter . However, fresh eyes bring the highest level of creative disruption and innovation to long-standing, status-quo systems . "The newcomer perspective is really valuable because you're gonna see things differently. And so we may hesitate to speak up because we feel like we're too new." – Daniel Newton * Problems Drive Action, While Ideas Risk the Back Burner. Voicing workplace problems creates an immediate sense of urgency that forces management to respond and implement solutions quickly . The paradox is that while problems get fixed, proactive and creative new ideas are often pushed aside . "Creating urgency means that managers respond faster, and the company is more likely to implement and resolve those problems. But the downside of that potentially could be that new, yet important ideas get put on the back burner." – Daniel Newton * AI as a Useful Sounding Board, Not a Human Replacement. Artificial intelligence serves as a fantastic, low-stakes rehearsal partner to build confidence before pitching ideas . While AI excels at optimizing usefulness and efficiency, human input remains essential for true originality and novel thinking . "AI-generated ideas were really good with the usefulness component. But the humans were really good at the originality component. If we're generating new ideas, we need the human in the loop." – Daniel Newton * The Power of Indirect Framing (The "Midwest Nice" Strategy). For those who struggle to be blunt, framing an idea or problem as a collaborative question lowers defensiveness in dominant leaders and invites them into the solution rather than putting them on the defensive . "Have we thought about X? Or might we consider doing this? Being indirect, asking or speaking up in the form of a question is helpful because it didn't put leaders on the spot. They don't feel as threatened." – Daniel Newton One Actionable Takeaway To help an idea land successfully with a dominant supervisor or to ease your own anxiety about speaking up, frame your insight as a question (e.g., "I wonder if we might consider..." or "Have we looked at...") rather than a direct mandate . This invites collaboration, lowers leadership defensiveness, and creates an immediate open door for your perspective to be heard .

350: How to Lead Values-Based Decision Making with Jenny Bates Heaton

Jenny Bates Heaton is the founder of Bates Leadership and has a brilliant new TEDx talk. What really blew me away during our chat was how Jenny used her personal journey facing a massive medical decision after a cancer-risk mutation diagnosis to completely rewrite the script on how we make choices. It got me thinking about my own life and how often we make decisions based on what we think we should do, rather than what aligns with our deepest values. For me, everything comes back to fairness, justice, and a whole lot of strength. When things feel off-balance in the world, my mental health definitely takes a hit with serious anxiety, but anchoring into those core values is what keeps me grounded. Jenny's framework isn't just a clinical exercise. It's a warm, slightly humorous, and deeply practical guide to finding your own word—whether that's power, strong, or serenity—and letting it do the guiding when life is A LOT. Key Themes From the Conversation * The Power of Personal Reflection Prompts: True decision-making frameworks cannot be imported from someone else. Decisions must be organically mined from an individual's unique motivations and joys. "I started circulating my questions to everyone, and I didn't really get any reaction from people. because they weren't their questions. They didn't focus on their values. Now, I guide people through exercises to pull out their word to guide their decisions." — Jenny Bates Heaton * The Intersection of Imposed Limitations and Good Intentions: Well-meaning colleagues often inadvertently sideline individuals, particularly from historically marginalized groups, by assuming their needs or limitations rather than asking them directly. "People with the best of intentions trying to protect me said, 'Oh gosh, I know you're going through a lot so let's catch up in a couple of months.' I had to advocate for myself quite a bit to convince them like, 'No, no, I'm good.'" — Jenny Bates Heaton * Shifting toward Employee-Led Talent Management: Organizations must move away from paternalistic, closed-door succession and promotion processes and actively integrate the employee's voice to reduce systemic bias. "Think about how many times you don't have the employee's voice in the room for talent review and for promotions. Most companies do not allow an employee to put their name in the box for the roles that they would like to apply for. That's weird." — Jenny Bates Heaton * Embracing the "Good Day, Bad Day" Culture: Cultivating psychological safety in a corporate system requires acknowledging that organizations, like people, will have off days without those mistakes defining their permanent identity. "The good day, bad day is one of my favorite exercises because it gives you permission to talk about the bad because it's just a day. It doesn't mean that you're always going to be bad, everyone has a bad day. Corporate culture personas are very much that way with good days and bad days just like humans." — Jenny Bates Heaton Actionable Takeaway Audit your favorite activities to find your decision-making anchor. Take a notebook and write down one or two hobbies you love to do consistently (like gardening, skiing, or reading). Ask yourself: What is the underlying feeling or motivation that compels me to keep doing this? Distill that feeling into a single core word—such as strength, control, or connectedness—and actively use that word as a litmus test for the next major professional or personal decision you have to make. Connect with Jenny at https://www.batesleadership.com/