How to Think About AI: Richard Susskind on What General Counsel Need to Know Now

Is Your AI Strategy Built on Shaky Data?

Rob Keller, Associate General Counsel at Cisco, joins Sara Morgan, CRO at Axiom and host of today's Axiom Insights show, to make a counterintuitive case: Data governance is legally more significant than AI itself. Overseeing Cisco's product legal for $24B in annual revenue, Rob explains why GCs should prioritize overlapping EU regulations without stalling launches, why legal should be involved in product development years earlier, what good AI vendor diligence looks like, and two near-term items GCs should ensure they're not missing: California AB 2013 and EU high-risk AI use case directives, due this summer. Cisco's legal department exceeds 500 professionals and fields dedicated AI governance and government compliance teams—a scale that's clearly pushing the upper-end of in-house legal functions. For leaner legal departments navigating the same regulatory wave, Rob recommends leaning on outside expertise and scaling up through partner resources for high-volume compliance work: contract review, repapering, and policy updates. Today's episode also addresses how geopolitical instability is reshaping data sovereignty strategy globally. Show Panelists * Rob Keller, Senior Director of Legal and Associate General Counsel, Cisco [https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertkellerjdmba/] * Sara Morgan, Chief Revenue Officer, Axiom [https://www.linkedin.com/in/sara-morgan-b54a3a1a/] Key Topics 1. Why data governance is more legally significant than AI, despite all the AI noise 2. How to sequence EU regulatory compliance without stalling product launches 3. Why legal must enter product development years before launch, not at the 11th hour 4. What GCs should demand in AI vendor contracts to protect data and mitigate training risk 5. How geopolitical instability is forcing a rethink of data sovereignty and cloud strategy 6. The near-term regulations GCs are underestimating when compliance is due, and how to get ready Episode Resources * Visit Cisco's website (https://www.cisco.com [https://www.cisco.com/]) * Learn more about Technology & AI at Axiom (https://www.axiomlaw.com/practice-areas/technology-ai [https://www.axiomlaw.com/practice-areas/technology-ai]) * Learn more about Data Privacy & Cybersecurity at Axiom (https://www.axiomlaw.com/practice-areas/data-privacy-cybersecurity [https://www.axiomlaw.com/practice-areas/data-privacy-cybersecurity]) * Learn more about Regulatory & Compliance at Axiom (https://www.axiomlaw.com/practice-areas/regulatory-compliance [https://www.axiomlaw.com/practice-areas/regulatory-compliance]) * Learn more about Axiom Tech+Talent (https://www.axiomlaw.com/solutions/tech-plus-talent [https://www.axiomlaw.com/solutions/tech-plus-talent]) * Visit AxiomLaw.com (https://www.axiomlaw.com [https://www.axiomlaw.com]) * Subscribe to the Axiom Insights Podcast (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/axiom-insights-on-legal-services/id1842354058 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/axiom-insights-on-legal-services/id1842354058]) DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of Rob Keller in his personal capacity and do not represent or reflect the views, positions, or official statements of Cisco Systems, Inc. or any of its affiliates. DISCLAIMER: Axiom is a provider of legal talent and is not a law firm, and does not provide legal advice. The information contained in these videos is merely legal information, not advice. Our clients' legal teams supervise the legal work of the Axiom lawyer. Viewing this video does not create an attorney/client relationship.

How to Think About AI: Richard Susskind on What General Counsel Need to Know Now

Richard Susskind, world-renowned author of "How to Think About AI," joins Axiom's Daniel Hayter and CJ Saretto for a lively discussion on how AGI will shape the future of lawyers and legal work. Susskind argues GCs must run short-term efficiency programs while building parallel teams planning for the 2030s—when AI moves legal expertise inside the product, not the department, and law firms' clients become the competition. His call to action: Stop automating existing work; build systems that eliminate the need for it. Susskind draws on 45 years in AI and research across eight professions to frame legal as among the most technology-resistant fields and the most exposed. He introduces "incremental transformation" as a planning framework, previews compliance becoming embedded in operational systems, and offers a practical starting point: mandate daily AI use before investing in formal pilots; lean in. Show Panelists * Richard Susskind [https://www.richardsusskind.com/], Author, Speaker & Independent Adviser; President, Society for Computers and Law; Professor, Oxford University and Strathclyde University * Daniel Hayter [https://www.linkedin.com/in/danhayter/], Managing Director & VP of Europe, Axiom * CJ Saretto [https://www.linkedin.com/in/cjsaretto/], Chief Technology Officer, Axiom Key Topics 1. Why GCs should plan for AGI now—even if its arrival remains uncertain 2. How short-term AI efficiency gains differ fundamentally from 2030s legal transformation 3. What "preventative lawyering" means and why in-house teams should build toward it 4. Why in-house legal departments, not law firms, are leading AI adoption today 5. How GCs can assess whether a law firm's AI commitment is genuine or just PR 6. When human supervision of AI systems may no longer make sense for legal work Episode Resources * Richard Susskind's website (https://www.susskind.com [https://www.susskind.com]) * Richard Susskind's latest book: How to Think About AI: A Guide for the Perplexed (https://tinyurl.com/26jcj98a [https://tinyurl.com/26jcj98a]) * Learn more about Technology & AI at Axiom (https://www.axiomlaw.com/practice-areas/technology-ai [https://www.axiomlaw.com/practice-areas/technology-ai]) * Learn more about Data Privacy & Cybersecurity at Axiom (https://www.axiomlaw.com/practice-areas/data-privacy-cybersecurity [https://www.axiomlaw.com/practice-areas/data-privacy-cybersecurity]) * Learn more about Regulatory & Compliance at Axiom (https://www.axiomlaw.com/practice-areas/regulatory-compliance [https://www.axiomlaw.com/practice-areas/regulatory-compliance]) * Learn more about Legal Operations at Axiom (https://www.axiomlaw.com/practice-areas/legal-operations-support [https://www.axiomlaw.com/practice-areas/legal-operations-support]) * Learn more about Axiom Tech+Talent (https://www.axiomlaw.com/solutions/tech-plus-talent [https://www.axiomlaw.com/solutions/tech-plus-talent]) * Visit AxiomLaw.com (https://www.axiomlaw.com [https://www.axiomlaw.com]) * Subscribe to the Axiom Insights Podcast (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/axiom-insights-on-legal-services/id1842354058 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/axiom-insights-on-legal-services/id1842354058]) DISCLAIMER: Axiom is a provider of legal talent and is not a law firm, and does not provide legal advice. The information contained in these videos is merely legal information, not advice. Our clients' legal teams supervise the legal work of the Axiom lawyer. Viewing this video does not create an attorney/client relationship.

From Pilot to Production: How Axiom's Clients Cracked the Legal AI Adoption Code

Join CJ Saretto as he corrals Peter Duffy of Titans Legal, Alex Fortescue-Webb of Legora, and Chris Frickland of Axiom for an inside look at running successful AI pilots in legal organizations. After helping Axiom test dozens of tools and compress months of contract review work into days, this group of legal AI experts unlocked the secret to achieving 10x efficiency gains that few in-house teams know. In today's episode, learn why 14-day trials doom AI adoption before it starts, why training your AI on thousands of past contracts degrades does the exact opposite of what lawyers expect it to do (get smarter; but no, it gets dumber), and how focusing on one specific use case beats trying to solve everything at once. The panel shares hard-won insights from their innovative structured 8-week pilot program, including why dummy data kills engagement, how vendor engagement and support makes or breaks adoption, and why it's crucial to give your lawyers 3-6 weeks to build new habits around AI tools. Whether you're a GC evaluating generative AI tools, a legal ops leader running pilots, or a law firm partner wondering about how to measure ROI, this conversation offers field-tested strategies for what drives AI adoption in legal settings vs. expensive experimentation. Show Panelists * Host: CJ Saretto, Chief Technology Officer, Axiom [https://www.linkedin.com/in/cjsaretto] * Peter Duffy, CEO and Co-founder, Titans Legal [https://www.linkedin.com/in/pdffy] * Alex Fortescue-Webb, Global Head of Engineering, Legora [https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexfortescuewebb/?originalSubdomain=uk] * Chris Frickland, Director of AI, Axiom [https://www.linkedin.com/in/cfrickland] Key topics 1. Pilot Duration and Structure 2. Training and Education Approaches 3. Tool Selection Criteria 4. Use Case Identification 5. Adoption Challenges and Support 6. Future Impact on Legal Work 7. Technology Market Assessment 8. Specific Tool Implementation 9. Measuring Success and Outcomes 10. Real-World Results and Efficiency Gains 11. Organizational Rollout Strategy 12. Client Perspectives and Demands Episode Resources * DraftPilot's website (https://draftpilot.ai [https://draftpilot.ai/]) * Legora's website (https://legora.ai [https://legora.ai/]) * Titans Legal's website (https://www.titans.legal/team [https://www.titans.legal/team]) * Learn more about Axiom Tech+Talent (https://www.axiomlaw.com/solutions/tech-plus-talent [https://www.axiomlaw.com/solutions/tech-plus-talent]) * Visit AxiomLaw.com (https://www.axiomlaw.com [https://www.axiomlaw.com]) * Subscribe to the Axiom Insights Podcast (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/axiom-insights-on-legal-services/id1842354058 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/axiom-insights-on-legal-services/id1842354058]) DISCLAIMER: Axiom is a provider of legal talent and is not a law firm, and does not provide legal advice. The information contained in these videos is merely legal information, not advice. Our clients' legal teams supervise the legal work of the Axiom lawyer. Viewing this video does not create an attorney/client relationship.

From AI Skeptic to True Believer: How DraftPilot is Transforming Contract Negotiation

Join CJ Saretto as he sits down with Daniel van Binsbergen, CEO of DraftPilot, for a candid conversation about the AI revolution in legal tech. After running an ALSP for 10 years, applying the scientific method to contract redlining (including timing working lawyers with stopwatches), Daniel discovered the true impact today's AI has on contract work: reducing redlining from 2.5 hours to 20 minutes. In this episode, learn why large language models (LLMs) succeeded where machine learning (ML) failed, why training on thousands of past contracts actually makes AI results worse, and how a simple "light blue highlight" became the killer feature that won over the most skeptical lawyers. Daniel shares surprising insights from his journey from Big Law to legal AI tech entrepreneur, including why he resisted building an "apply all" recommendations button despite many requests, and how lawyers using AI well are already outpacing those who don't. Whether you're a CLO or GC evaluating AI tools; a lawyer curious about the technology, or a legal ops professional looking to drive team efficiency, this conversation will give you practical insights on what actually works in AI-powered contract negotiation—and what's just blue-sky hype. Show Panelists * Host: CJ Saretto, CTO of Axiom [https://www.linkedin.com/in/cjsaretto] * Daniel van Binsbergen, CEO of DraftPilot [https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielvanbinsbergen] Key topics 1. LLMs vs machine learning in legal tech 2. The playbook revolution 3. Why historical data doesn't help 4. Building AI lawyers will actually use 5. The future of human judgment in an AI world 6. and more! Episode Resources * Visit DraftPilot.ai (https://draftpilot.ai [https://draftpilot.ai]) * Learn more about Technology & AI at Axiom (https://www.axiomlaw.com/practice-areas/technology-ai [https://www.axiomlaw.com/practice-areas/technology-ai]) * Learn more about Axiom Tech+Talent (https://www.axiomlaw.com/solutions/tech-plus-talent [https://www.axiomlaw.com/solutions/tech-plus-talent]) * Visit AxiomLaw.com (https://www.axiomlaw.com [https://www.axiomlaw.com]) * Subscribe to the Axiom Insights Podcast (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/axiom-insights-on-legal-services/id1842354058 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/axiom-insights-on-legal-services/id1842354058]) DISCLAIMER: Axiom is a provider of legal talent and is not a law firm, and does not provide legal advice. The information contained in these videos is merely legal information, not advice. Our clients' legal teams supervise the legal work of the Axiom lawyer. Viewing this video does not create an attorney/client relationship.

The In-House Perspective on AI

Axiom's Sean Rafter connects with Hiro Oshima, Managing Director and Deputy General Counsel at SMBC, to explore the pressing challenges legal departments face as they balance pressure to adopt AI with their responsibility to manage risk. Fresh from hosting 35 in-house counsel at an AI roundtable in New York City, Hiro discusses what true generative AI means for lawyers, why training future legal talent matters more than short-term efficiency gains, and what are the right questions to ask law firms and legal services partners about their AI use on client matters. Today's show is packed with practical insights for legal leaders navigating AI adoption in heavily regulated industries. Hiro shares candid perspectives on measuring ROI, evaluating legal tech vendors, partnering with alternative legal service providers, and ensuring AI amplifies rather than replaces human judgment. The discussion tackles everything from law firm billing practices to law school curriculum changes in an AI-enabled world. Show Panelists * Host: Sean Rafter, VP and head of Axiom's financial services business [https://www.linkedin.com/in/raftersean] * Hiro Oshima, Managing Director and Deputy General Counsel at SMBC [https://www.linkedin.com/in/oshimahiro], overseeing approximately 50 attorneys and covering commercial banking, emerging issues including ESG, cyber, AI, and financial crime compliance. Hiro has been with SMBC for over 23 years. Key Topics 1. Why legal departments aren't seeing AI-driven reductions in law firm billing 2. Exploring the disconnect between law firm AI adoption and client cost savings. Are efficiency gains being passed along to clients? 3. The difference between true generative AI and automation tools 4. Determining whether most legal AI applications are really using generative AI or simply extending existing automation technology with new branding 5. How to prevent AI from undermining the training of future lawyers 6. The shortsightedness of prioritizing efficiency over professional development, and how to ensure judgment and skills are gained by doing the actual work 7. When in-house teams should require client consent before their law firms use AI 8. How and why SMBC requires law firms to seek approval and validate their AI configurations, policies, and use cases before deploying AI tools on client work 9. How legal departments can measure AI ROI when there's no clear answers yet 10. Despite the lack of clear ROI metrics, legal teams can't afford to sit on the sidelines due to cost pressures and political realities 11. What makes alternative legal service providers a viable third option 12. How Axiom helps SMBC bring competent, AI-skilled lawyers in-house to hit the ground running for project-based and capacity needs without involving high costs, long pilots, or long-term hiring commitments 13. Why kindness is the most important career advice for legal leaders 14. Reflections on making tough decisions with kindness, and being mindful of lawyers' job security concerns during the GenAI revolution 15. How lawyers should view their job security in an AI-enabled future 16. Lawyers losing jobs to AI is less likely than lawyers losing opportunities to colleagues who master AI tools—and why lawyers are more necessary now than ever Episode Resources * SMBC Group Corporate Information (https://www.smbc.co.jp/global [https://www.smbc.co.jp/global]) * Learn more about Axiom's Financial Services Practice (https://www.axiomlaw.com/industries/diversified-financial-services [https://www.axiomlaw.com/industries/diversified-financial-services)]) * Learn more about Axiom's Legal AI Solutions (https://www.axiomlaw.com/solutions/legal-technology [https://www.axiomlaw.com/solutions/legal-technology]) * Learn more about Axiom Tech+Talent (https://www.axiomlaw.com/solutions/tech-plus-talent [https://www.axiomlaw.com/solutions/tech-plus-talent]) * Visit AxiomLaw.com (https://www.axiomlaw.com [https://www.axiomlaw.com]) * Subscribe to the Axiom Insights Podcast (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/axiom-insights-on-legal-services/id1842354058 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/axiom-insights-on-legal-services/id1842354058]) DISCLAIMER: Axiom is a provider of legal talent and is not a law firm, and does not provide legal advice. The information contained in these videos is merely legal information, not advice. Our clients' legal teams supervise the legal work of the Axiom lawyer. Viewing this video does not create an attorney/client relationship.