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A Be Honest Conversation: Swedenborgian Anti-Racism Them & Now.

1 h 11 min · 5 de may de 2026
portada del episodio A Be Honest Conversation: Swedenborgian Anti-Racism Them & Now.

Descripción

Today’s podcast is a recording of the Helen Keller Spiritual Life Collaborative’s second Live Streamed Be Honest Conversation, Swedenborgian Anti-Racism Then & Now featuring Sue Ditmire. The conversation was cosponsored by the Helen Keller Spiritual Life Collaborative [https://helenkellercollaborative.org/] and Swedenborgians In Action Against Racism [https://swedenborg.org/community/diversity-equity-inclusion/swedenborgians-in-action-against-racism/]. Sue Ditmire grew up in Loveland Ohio. In 1972, she found Kemper Road Center (a Swedenborgian Church) while looking for a church she could agree enough with to take her children to Sunday School. Like a lot of new Swedenborgians, Sue discovered that the theology was what she intuitively already believed. Over the years Sue has moved around a bit and each time been active in a local Swedenborgian Community, the Church of the Holy City in Wilmington DE, The Urbana Swedenborgian Church in Urbana, OH and more recently she has joined the New Church of Montgomery after retiring to Cincinnati, OH. Sue has been very active over the years at the denominational level of the Swedenborgian Church, attending Annual Conventions, serving as Secretary for the Board of Education, and taking part in the Support Unit organizational shift that the denomination underwent in the 90’s. Sue was also an enthusiastic supporter of the creation of Temenos Retreat Center in West Chester, PA and a part of the team that created, www.swedenborgiancommunity.org [http://www.swedenborgiancommunity.org], the denomination’s first online spiritual community, actually building the first version of the website. Over the years Sue has always had a strong interest in American History, researching and writing articles about New Jersey history and the history of the Swedenborgian Church. She is currently the Chairwoman of the Library and Documents committee of the Swedenborgian Church and an active member of SAAR (Swedenborgians in Action Against Racism). Combining her activism with her love of history Sue has been researching the historic black ministries within the Swedenborgian Church, and will be publishing her findings in June in a new book titled, Overlooked: Black Ministers in a White Denomination. Sue is currently working to form a non-profit organization, called Swedenborgian Heritage Center in Cincinnati, OH. The center will include a Swedenborgian Library available for research and reading. Join Rev. Sage Cole and researcher Sue Ditmire as they explore the rich history of Black leadership in the Swedenborgian Church, the impact of racism, and pathways toward greater inclusion and communication in faith communities. Discover inspiring stories, historical insights, and actionable ideas for fostering racial justice today. KeywordsBlack leadership, Swedenborgian Church, anti-racism, racial justice, church history, inclusion, communication, civil rights, faith communities Key Topics * History of Black leadership in the Swedenborgian Church * Impact of racism and segregation on faith communities * Strategies for communication and inclusion in religious settings Guest NameSue Ditmire Titles * Uncovering Hidden Histories of Black Leaders in the Swedenborgian Church * Pathways to Racial Justice in Faith Communities Sound Bites * “We have to root out racism and tell these stories.” * “Communication is the key to solving racism.” * “The holy city where all tribes come together.” Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Swedenborgian Anti-Racism 03:50 Personal Journeys and Historical Context 08:10 Helen Keller’s Advocacy and Influence 12:05 Researching Overlooked Black Ministers 16:10 The First Black Swedenborgian Church 20:26 Challenges and Dynamics in Black Ministry 24:53 Legacy and Future of Swedenborgian Anti-Racism 28:20 The Legacy of Black Churches 32:33 Challenges Faced by Black Congregations 36:30 The Role of Communication in Racism 42:35 Current State of Diversity in Denominations 48:17 Exploring Support and Recognition in Community 49:04 Addressing Racism Beyond Black and White 50:28 Barriers in Swedenborgian Tradition 52:14 Communication and Building Relationships 53:38 The Role of Community in Addressing Racism 54:45 Hope Amidst Challenges of Racism 55:44 The Importance of Inclusivity 57:15 Reflections on Rights and Community Engagement 58:20 The Impact of Economic Issues on Racism 59:01 The Vision of the New Church 01:00:06 Future Directions and Publishing Insights 01:03:11 Intentional Efforts for Racial Diversity 01:06:09 The Challenge of Unity in Diversity 01:07:40 Opportunities for Regeneration and Growth Our Theme Music is “I Love it,” by Luke Concannon www.lukeconcannon.com [http://www.lukeconcannon.com/] Join us for our upcoming Be Honest Live Streamed Conversation:LGBTQIA Identity: Love, Gender, Marriage & SexualityFeaturing Rev. Colin Amato, Tirah Keal & Alex GayheartCo-Sponsored by The Rainbow Church [https://helenkellercollaborative.us14.list-manage.com/track/click?u=0f3db0b765547975de40667cb&id=9b9ef3f54d&e=c5cf3cdbca] Register here! [https://helenkellercollaborative.org/event/lgbtqia-identity-love-gender-marriage-sexuality/] This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit worshipislife.substack.com [https://worshipislife.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]

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episode It's good to appreciate the paths that got us here. artwork

It's good to appreciate the paths that got us here.

Greetings, friends. The message I want to bring today — the one I’m sitting with — is that it’s good to appreciate where we’ve been and all of the people and energy that has sustained us thus far. I’m out in one of my favorite little patches of woods near my house, and I’m appreciating the efforts of others that have created these pathways. Right behind me is a little stone bridge that somebody put together that helped me cross the little creek. All of these little paths that exist are because of the efforts of other beings like myself, and I’m grateful for that. Otherwise it would be hard to find my way into the woods. I had an experience a few weeks ago. My husband and I were walking out here and I encouraged us to go on one of the less traveled paths, and we ended up off the path and finding our way through some briar bushes. I ended up contracting some poison ivy and having a bit of an existential meltdown as we were making our way out, saying to him, “You know, this is why you don’t leave the beaten path — because you end up in the briar bushes.” And that’s often true. As someone forging a new kind of ministry in the world, I can relate. Forging the path is often very challenging. And really — I’d be curious about other people’s insights — I don’t know that any of us ever forge entirely our own path, right? We make our way along the paths others have created, and then we move in a slightly new direction, and that’s how the system of pathways expands and grows. Of course, this metaphor works in all kinds of areas of life, and especially, I think, in the way we form church and community. This last weekend I got to spend time with people in the Bryn Athyn community who are part of different pathways — different branches of this Swedenborgian New Church movement — that have been walking together in different ways. It was so enlivening to connect and to learn from them, from the pathways that they had created, and to come to this new intersection of community and life. There’s just so much to be grateful for in all of the ways that they have walked their paths and the ways that I’ve walked mine. I’m coming to see and sense how important it is to give thanks for that walking. This effort of mine to create a new kind of ministry — this “be love, be honest, be useful” effort — has been motivated by some dissatisfaction, by a need to tell the truth about challenges and hard, painful things that have occurred along these paths we’ve trod. There was a feeling that there wasn’t space within the form or the path that I was on to really name these things and tell the truth. And the further I walk this path, the more free I feel to name the challenges, name the hard things, name the limitations of the path I had been on. What’s really interesting is that the more I do that, the more appreciation actually starts to arise. In some ways, I have a sense that it’s hard to appreciate what we’ve experienced in our lives when there isn’t space to tell the whole truth about it — to also tell the things that were hard or painful, that we grieve. Once there’s space to really be honest, to flesh it out fully, then there’s space to also be in appreciation. I see that playing out in my experience of church and how I’ve been formed in church — that as I can name the things that haven’t gone well, I’m also coming into awareness of all of the beautiful things that have gone swimmingly well, things that empower me to be the person I am today. I also see that playing out in my understanding of my family. As I come to understand some of the ways that my early family experiences conditioned me to be codependent and hyper-vigilant of the emotions in my family, and a caretaker of others — as I’m able to tell the truth about that — I’m also remembering and appreciating all of the beautiful things I was formed in as a young child. Just the other day I was listening to some great music and dancing in my kitchen, and just having so much appreciation for all of the ways my parents showed me how to dance and how to have fun and how to take pleasure in life. Some of that had been suppressed for a little while when I wasn’t able to also share and feel and sense the difficult things. Because they’re all connected. They’re all one. It’s all our experience. There’s something so profound that can happen when we can just be honest about it. When we can be honest about it, we can appreciate the paths that have made our life possible. We can search out where maybe those paths have limited us, or given us a sense that there’s only one way to be. But we can also appreciate that they gave us the possibility to get to where we are. We’re not all starting from scratch. We carry the wisdom of our ancestors — in our familial lines, in our cultural lines, in our religious communities. There’s pain there, and there are gifts, and there’s wisdom, and all of it is rich terrain. If we block out one side of that equation, it just stifles life. It stifles and dampens and numbs possibilities. This last weekend down at the Lord’s New Church [https://www.thelordsnewchurch.org/united_states_the_lords_new_church.html] was a rich, creative time in community, and I could feel the energy moving in our midst in a palpable way — and I think others could feel it too. There’s a lot of aliveness in this human condition of ours. There’s aliveness that wants to be free. It wants to live, it wants to create, it wants to love, it wants to be in relationship. And it needs to be held — beheld. It needs us to be present to it. I think honesty is that path — to be present to that aliveness. What is that aliveness bringing? Because it’s probably bringing both creative new possibilities and healing. Healing that will potentially uncover pain that will be hard to see, but that will bring about the possibilities that are longing to emerge next. So let’s appreciate where we’ve been. Let’s appreciate all the paths that have been trod before us, and the path we find ourselves on. Maybe it’s the merging of many different paths. One of the themes of our retreat was the labyrinth. Maybe we’re walking a path that is taking us to our center, and yet it gets confusing and it wanders. Maybe we’re invited to walk off the path a little bit and even risk getting a little poison ivy, because God is calling us in a direction that will be good. The communities of people I was interacting with this weekend were from two other branches of the Swedenborgian church. We’re like the smallest church movement on the planet, and yet we have three different branches, three different denominational bodies, with different legal entities and processes and liturgies. And I didn’t show up in Bryn Athyn suggesting we should create a fourth. It feels to me like this moment in our history isn’t really calling for another break. We don’t have to walk off the path and reject the path we’ve come from — say, “You’re no longer in relationship to me, I’m going to go over this way and do everything I can to separate myself from you.” That’s an old way of thinking. We can go on different paths and still be in community. That would be really useful, because our paths might intersect again in the future, and we’re all walking the same earth. While we gathered together this weekend with these different paths and these different denominational bodies, I don’t even know that it was in any way divisive. Perhaps others had that experience, but I felt a deep unity with all the people that we connected to, and something moving in our midst that was very alive. I get the sense that there may be a new way to do this church thing — one that doesn’t require rejection, that doesn’t require us to abandon our history or the past. It just requires us to be a little softer, a little more open: to appreciate the paths that have brought us to where we are, to be honest about the ways we’ve been formed that we may be ready to release and let go of, and then from this place, from this point we’ve been brought to, take those next steps that feel right and feel good and feel alive and growing. So it’s a good moment, friends. I appreciate every single person who has stepped into this enterprise of being loving and being honest and seeing how we may be called to be useful. I’m very excited. Today begins a series of incubation sessions [https://helenkellercollaborative.org/event/incubation-session/2026-05-29/] that Alex and I are going to do from 11 to 1 on Fridays, now through June 19th — New Church Day — to just sit with each other and with anyone who wants to come and show up. To appreciate what new things have emerged in this effort of the Helen Keller Spiritual Life Collaborative [https://helenkellercollaborative.org], to appreciate what we’ve done together, to feel into that appreciation, and to name what we’ve experienced — both the good, and maybe the ways that we weren’t so good, or that we want to do differently — and to till the soil to see what may be longing to emerge next in our work. So if you’re listening to this video, if you’re on this journey with us, if you have a window on a Friday to join us, I welcome you to pop in. I’ll put the link in the description for this video. And if you can’t come on a Friday but you have some thoughts or appreciations to share, I encourage you to comment or email. You know how to find us. And in your own life, in your own walk, I invite you to be honest with the good and the bad — with where you are in life, what has brought you there, and what is calling you next. Many blessings, friends. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit worshipislife.substack.com [https://worshipislife.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]

24 de may de 202614 min
episode Helen Keller: Becoming the Holy City Inside & Out artwork

Helen Keller: Becoming the Holy City Inside & Out

Ah what a beautiful weekend I am returning from at the Lord’s New Church in Bryn Athyn, PA where I got to speak about Helen, collaborate on a retreat with Deborah’s Tree and many others, and preach on Sunday morning. I got to share a lot about Be Love, Be Honest, Be Useful and I received so much and I am tired and grateful. I huge thank you to all the people who showed up to all the things, and if you didn’t get a chance to join you can listen in here to my Friday night talk about Helen Keller and how she became the holy city inside and out by being loving, honest and useful and how we might too ❤️ I’ve been invited back to put on another retreat next year in Bryn Athyn and I look forward to taking these offerings on the road many more places in the weeks and months and years ahead. If you’d like to collaborate on something in your community do get in touch or pop into one of our upcoming Incubation Sessions [https://helenkellercollaborative.org/event/incubation-session/2026-05-22/], Fridays from 11-1 pm on ZOOM May 22nd - June 19th. Summary Rev. Sage Cole’s talk explores the spiritual journey inspired by Helen Keller’s life and teachings. She emphasizes the importance of love, change, and community in spiritual growth. Rev. Cole reflects on Helen Keller’s transformation from a deaf-blind girl to a global advocate for various social causes, highlighting her commitment to love, regeneration, and interconnectedness. The talk encourages embracing change and finding stability in divine love, aligning with the vision of the new church. Sound Bites “Love is the foundation.” Rev. Cole emphasizes that understanding and embodying love is central to spiritual growth. “We are here to grow and change.” She highlights the importance of embracing change as a spiritual journey. “We live by each other.” The interconnectedness of humanity is crucial for personal and communal spiritual development. Timestamp Chapters 0:00 - Introduction to Rev. Sage Cole 1:41 - Helen Keller and the New Church 3:34 - Vision and Transformation 5:19 - Helen Keller’s 1928 Speech 8:13 - Helen Keller’s Early Life 10:14 - Spiritual Foundations 14:18 - Transformations and Growth 18:24 - Advocacy and Social Justice 24:37 - Embracing Change and Community 28:58 - Becoming the Holy City This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit worshipislife.substack.com [https://worshipislife.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]

19 de may de 202636 min
episode Be Love: "I'm not afraid of being taught, in fact I love it." artwork

Be Love: "I'm not afraid of being taught, in fact I love it."

Rev. Robert McCluskey holds a B.A. and M.A. in philosophy, with a focus on Greek philosophy, modern idealism, existentialism, and hermeneutics. He is a graduate of the Swedenborg School of Religion, and was ordained into the Swedenborgian Church of North America in 1984. He has pastored churches in Portland, ME and New York City, and served on the denomination’s Social Justice Committee. He also served for 18 years as representative to the National Council of Churches, with specific attention to the work of social justice and religious freedom. Until recently, he administered rites and sacraments at Wayfarers Chapel near Los Angeles. Summary Join Rev. Sage Cole and Rev. Robert McCluskey as they explore the spiritual journey through Swedenborgian theology, the influence of music and philosophy, and the role of church in personal and social transformation. Discover insights on faith, community, and the ongoing quest for truth. Keywords Swedenborgian, spiritual growth, church community, philosophy, music, social justice, faith journey, inner sense, divine love, religious transformation Key Topics * Swedenborgian theology and personal faith * The influence of music, especially the Grateful Dead, on spirituality * The importance of community and church as a space for growth * The concept of heaven on earth and divine presence in daily life * The challenges and opportunities of modern spiritual practice Key Frameworks * Inner sense as a spiritual tool * The treasure and vessel metaphor in spiritual growth * The both-and approach to truth and understanding Sound Bites * “I’m the first Swedenborgian you ever met.” * “I’m not afraid of being taught, in fact I love it.” * “People are the only real things in life.” * “Every new life is a world of potential.” Chapters 00:00 The Journey of Faith and Love 02:25 Philosophy, Music, and Spiritual Awakening 04:32 The Influence of Community and Creativity 07:12 Navigating Life’s Displacements 09:40 Understanding Providence and Suffering 12:04 Truth, Perspective, and Spiritual Growth 24:30 Finding Unity in Diversity 26:15 Exploring the Mind and Spiritual Psychology 27:21 The Role of Doctrine in Spiritual Growth 28:10 The Treasure Within the Church 29:24 The Proprium and Its Challenges 29:51 Heaven on Earth: A Realistic Perspective 31:11 Honoring the Human Experience 32:11 The Yearning for Realness in Community 33:13 Reflections on Ministry and Retirement 34:20 Addressing Social Justice and Church Issues 36:21 The Treasure of Swedenborgian Ideas 38:40 The Importance of Personal Growth 41:23 Emerging New Church Dynamics 43:34 Utilizing Technology for Spiritual Connection Our Theme Music is “I Love it,” by Luke Concannon www.lukeconcannon.com [http://www.lukeconcannon.com] This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit worshipislife.substack.com [https://worshipislife.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]

12 de may de 202645 min
episode A Be Honest Conversation: Swedenborgian Anti-Racism Them & Now. artwork

A Be Honest Conversation: Swedenborgian Anti-Racism Them & Now.

Today’s podcast is a recording of the Helen Keller Spiritual Life Collaborative’s second Live Streamed Be Honest Conversation, Swedenborgian Anti-Racism Then & Now featuring Sue Ditmire. The conversation was cosponsored by the Helen Keller Spiritual Life Collaborative [https://helenkellercollaborative.org/] and Swedenborgians In Action Against Racism [https://swedenborg.org/community/diversity-equity-inclusion/swedenborgians-in-action-against-racism/]. Sue Ditmire grew up in Loveland Ohio. In 1972, she found Kemper Road Center (a Swedenborgian Church) while looking for a church she could agree enough with to take her children to Sunday School. Like a lot of new Swedenborgians, Sue discovered that the theology was what she intuitively already believed. Over the years Sue has moved around a bit and each time been active in a local Swedenborgian Community, the Church of the Holy City in Wilmington DE, The Urbana Swedenborgian Church in Urbana, OH and more recently she has joined the New Church of Montgomery after retiring to Cincinnati, OH. Sue has been very active over the years at the denominational level of the Swedenborgian Church, attending Annual Conventions, serving as Secretary for the Board of Education, and taking part in the Support Unit organizational shift that the denomination underwent in the 90’s. Sue was also an enthusiastic supporter of the creation of Temenos Retreat Center in West Chester, PA and a part of the team that created, www.swedenborgiancommunity.org [http://www.swedenborgiancommunity.org], the denomination’s first online spiritual community, actually building the first version of the website. Over the years Sue has always had a strong interest in American History, researching and writing articles about New Jersey history and the history of the Swedenborgian Church. She is currently the Chairwoman of the Library and Documents committee of the Swedenborgian Church and an active member of SAAR (Swedenborgians in Action Against Racism). Combining her activism with her love of history Sue has been researching the historic black ministries within the Swedenborgian Church, and will be publishing her findings in June in a new book titled, Overlooked: Black Ministers in a White Denomination. Sue is currently working to form a non-profit organization, called Swedenborgian Heritage Center in Cincinnati, OH. The center will include a Swedenborgian Library available for research and reading. Join Rev. Sage Cole and researcher Sue Ditmire as they explore the rich history of Black leadership in the Swedenborgian Church, the impact of racism, and pathways toward greater inclusion and communication in faith communities. Discover inspiring stories, historical insights, and actionable ideas for fostering racial justice today. KeywordsBlack leadership, Swedenborgian Church, anti-racism, racial justice, church history, inclusion, communication, civil rights, faith communities Key Topics * History of Black leadership in the Swedenborgian Church * Impact of racism and segregation on faith communities * Strategies for communication and inclusion in religious settings Guest NameSue Ditmire Titles * Uncovering Hidden Histories of Black Leaders in the Swedenborgian Church * Pathways to Racial Justice in Faith Communities Sound Bites * “We have to root out racism and tell these stories.” * “Communication is the key to solving racism.” * “The holy city where all tribes come together.” Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Swedenborgian Anti-Racism 03:50 Personal Journeys and Historical Context 08:10 Helen Keller’s Advocacy and Influence 12:05 Researching Overlooked Black Ministers 16:10 The First Black Swedenborgian Church 20:26 Challenges and Dynamics in Black Ministry 24:53 Legacy and Future of Swedenborgian Anti-Racism 28:20 The Legacy of Black Churches 32:33 Challenges Faced by Black Congregations 36:30 The Role of Communication in Racism 42:35 Current State of Diversity in Denominations 48:17 Exploring Support and Recognition in Community 49:04 Addressing Racism Beyond Black and White 50:28 Barriers in Swedenborgian Tradition 52:14 Communication and Building Relationships 53:38 The Role of Community in Addressing Racism 54:45 Hope Amidst Challenges of Racism 55:44 The Importance of Inclusivity 57:15 Reflections on Rights and Community Engagement 58:20 The Impact of Economic Issues on Racism 59:01 The Vision of the New Church 01:00:06 Future Directions and Publishing Insights 01:03:11 Intentional Efforts for Racial Diversity 01:06:09 The Challenge of Unity in Diversity 01:07:40 Opportunities for Regeneration and Growth Our Theme Music is “I Love it,” by Luke Concannon www.lukeconcannon.com [http://www.lukeconcannon.com/] Join us for our upcoming Be Honest Live Streamed Conversation:LGBTQIA Identity: Love, Gender, Marriage & SexualityFeaturing Rev. Colin Amato, Tirah Keal & Alex GayheartCo-Sponsored by The Rainbow Church [https://helenkellercollaborative.us14.list-manage.com/track/click?u=0f3db0b765547975de40667cb&id=9b9ef3f54d&e=c5cf3cdbca] Register here! [https://helenkellercollaborative.org/event/lgbtqia-identity-love-gender-marriage-sexuality/] This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit worshipislife.substack.com [https://worshipislife.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]

5 de may de 20261 h 11 min
episode A Be Honest Conversation: "How are we called to act in the face of suffering and injustice?" artwork

A Be Honest Conversation: "How are we called to act in the face of suffering and injustice?"

Today’s Be Honest conversation emerged when Be Love Podcast guest the Rev. Edward Kent Rogers [https://worshipislife.substack.com/p/be-love-episode-two] reached out to Alex and I after our recent episode Asking to dwell in the question of how to act in the face of injustice and harm. This conversation is raw and real and we hope it will stir many more open conversations about how we may meet the challenges of our time. Summary This conversation explores navigating societal chaos, personal responses to injustice, and spiritual resilience amidst political upheaval. The speakers share personal stories, spiritual insights, and strategies for collective action and inner peace. Keywords societal chaos, spiritual resilience, political upheaval, personal response, collective action, inner peace, justice, love, community, transformation Key Topics Navigating societal chaos and political upheaval Personal responses to injustice and violence Spiritual resilience and inner peace amidst chaos Guest Name Sage Cole, Alex Gayheart, Edward Kent Rogers Key Frameworks Inner-outer harmony Spiritual activism Collective resilience Action Items Reflect on your personal response to societal chaos. Practice compassion and understanding towards others. Engage in community building and dialogue. Prioritize inner peace and spiritual growth. Identify your unique gift for collective action. Sound Bites “Happiness is fidelity to a worthy purpose.” “We are all in this together.” Chapters 00:00 Navigating Personal Challenges and Urgency 02:07 Shifting Perspectives on Outrage and Understanding 04:44 Experiencing Fear and Ethical Dilemmas in Crisis 07:55 The Role of Individual Action in Collective Change 10:20 Confronting the Reality of Violence and Self-Defense 12:58 Finding Balance Between Action and Reflection 16:09 Exploring Economic Justice and Spiritual Responsibility 18:26 The Collective Nature of Change and Revolution 25:12 Echo Chambers and Social Media Influence 27:19 Shifting Perspectives on Political Administration 28:55 Inner Growth and Collective Awareness 29:54 Navigating Emotions in Turbulent Times 34:51 The Role of Peace and Action in Change 39:20 Finding Purpose in a Changing World Our Theme Music is “I Love it,” by Luke Concannon www.lukeconcannon.com This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit worshipislife.substack.com [https://worshipislife.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]

28 de abr de 202643 min