CMO Confidential

A CMO Confidential Interview with Michael Treff, the CEO of Code + Theory, a growing 2000 person agency which combines technology and creativity. Michael discusses the disruption in consumer behavior, why B2B client service is becoming more holistic, and why companies should "go on offense" in a time of uncertainty. Key topics include: The strategic question of "What do you want your humans to be doing;" his belief that there will be a growing demand for ROI on tech spending; how everyone can become a creative change agent; and why he hates the concept of "The Big Idea." Tune in to hear the lesson of "prompt engineers" and an analogy of how playing in a punk band is like learning to use AI. In this week’s episode of CMO Confidential, five-time CMO Mike Linton is joined by Michael Treff, CEO of award-winning agency Code and Theory for a no-holds-barred discussion on why most AI strategies are missing the point. Treff—who leads an agency named B2B Agency of the Year by Ad Age and innovation standout by Fast Company—argues that leaders are mistaking AI tools for strategy. Instead, he lays out a bold case for orchestration—aligning people, tools, and data across the enterprise to drive real customer value. Together, Mike and Michael unpack: • Why B2B marketers need to stop treating customers like corporate buyers and start treating them like humans. • Why defensive strategies during disruption are a recipe for irrelevance. • The myth of the “big idea”—and why creativity has been democratized. • Why prompt engineers were never the future. • What AI orchestration really means—and how it can finally connect data silos, unify customer journeys, and drive performance. Whether you’re a CMO, agency leader, or aspiring executive, this is an unmissable playbook for navigating AI disruption, avoiding short-sighted efficiency traps, and building brands that thrive. 🎧 Listen now on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or watch the full episode on YouTube. 🔗 Sponsored by  @PublicisSapient  [https://studio.youtube.com/channel/UCqDal2iXO02gy5rNyhOmiwQ] — Smarter marketing, happier teams, wow-worthy customer moments. Visit: https://www.publicissapient.com #CMOConfidential #MarketingLeadership #AIinMarketing #MichaelTreff #CodeAndTheory #B2BMarketing #CMOStrategy #MarTech #MarketingPodcast #MarketingAI #MikeLinton #BrandStrategy #DigitalTransformation ⸻ ⏱️ YouTube Chapter Timestamps: 00:00 - Welcome to CMO Confidential 01:15 - Meet Michael Treff, CEO of Code and Theory 03:08 - AI Disruption in B2B: Humanizing the Customer 06:00 - Why B2B Requires a Holistic Customer Lens 08:47 - Agency Mergers & The Death of the Middle 11:35 - Scale vs. Focus: Who Wins in Holding Company Wars? 14:10 - Leadership in an Anxious Market: Offense vs. Defense 17:25 - Code and Theory’s Internal AI Transformation 20:15 - The Myth of the Prompt Engineer 22:10 - Why Most AI Strategies Are Flawed 25:00 - Connecting People, Tools, and Data with AI 27:15 - Democratizing Creativity: What It Really Means 30:00 - Why the Big Idea is Dead (and What Comes Next) 32:25 - Predictions for 2025 in B2B, Tech & AI 34:05 - Final Advice: Everyone Can Lead Change See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy [https://art19.com/privacy] and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info [https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info].

Nancie discusses her "brand fix" classifications of refine, purposefully manage, and transform, how to get started with data even when money and time are tight, some "Taylor Swift" approaches to brand work, and the difference between mission and brand. Key topics include: how to get the organization in harmony; why "The Big Reveal" is usually the wrong way to go; and her belief that both Sephora and Apple are losing brand steam. Tune in to hear case studies on Georgetown, The Mayo Clinic, and Samsung and a humorous story about a heart attack. You were brought in to fix the brand… but what exactly does that mean? In this week’s episode of CMO Confidential, host and 5x CMO Mike Linton sits down with brand strategist Nancie McDonnell Ruder, founder of Noetic Consulting, to unpack the real-world challenges behind “fixing” a brand. From navigating crises at major healthcare institutions to helping Georgetown University build brand alignment across decentralized marketing teams, Nancie shares her proven frameworks and hard-won insights on strengthening brands from the inside out. They discuss: • The difference between a brand crisis, a refinement, and a transformation • What to do when your brand is suffering—but the real problem lies elsewhere • Why internal alignment and education are non-negotiable for brand success • The 5 best practices for brand revitalization (with names like Taylor Swift songs!) • Brand fails to avoid—including the “Big Reveal” trap and skipping customer data • And yes… the show ends with a heart attack, mouth-to-mouth CPR, and a forehead kiss (you’ll just have to listen) 00:00 – Intro: Welcome & episode setup 01:02 – What does it really mean to “fix the brand”? 03:45 – The Georgetown University brand refinement case 06:25 – Standing up a brand for the first time (Mayo Clinic example) 08:55 – Brand crisis vs. product/perception issue: How to tell the difference 11:40 – Diagnosing the real problem: What does the data say? 14:05 – Samsung’s brand affinity challenge and how they solved it 16:20 – The 5 best practices for brand revitalization (Taylor Swift edition) 19:45 – Worst practices: The “big reveal,” internal misalignment, and ignoring skeptics 23:05 – The importance of activating the brand internally 25:30 – Brands to watch: Sephora, Apple, and Domino’s 28:20 – Funniest brand moment: A heart attack, CPR, and unexpected teamwork 31:15 – Final takeaway + Mike’s sauceless pizza story 33:30 – Outro: Upcoming episodes and where to subscribe If you’re a CMO, CEO, board member, or founder facing brand issues—or aiming to avoid them—this episode is your toolkit. 🔔 Subscribe to stay on top of what it really takes to lead marketing at the highest level. 📥 Newsletter with top takeaways drops every Friday: https://cmoconfidential.substack.com CMO Confidential, Mike Linton, Nancie McDonnell Ruder, brand strategy, fix the brand, brand transformation, brand refinement, marketing strategy, CMO insights, internal alignment, brand health, Noetic Consulting, Georgetown University marketing, Mayo Clinic brand, Samsung brand case, leadership mistakes, brand campaign, CMO podcast, top marketing podcast, marketing leadership, executive marketing, board-level strategy, brand storytelling, marketing turnaround, nonprofit marketing, higher ed marketing, Apple brand erosion, Domino’s case study, Taylor Swift brand songs, marketing best practices See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy [https://art19.com/privacy] and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info [https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info].

A CMO Confidential Interview with Dr. Eugene Soltes, Harvard Business School Professor and author of "Why They Do It - Inside the Mind of the White Collar Criminal". Eugene discusses how most crimes start out as small, often unnoticed decisions made by strategic people, how nearly everyone has a chance to step over the line, why many companies (Air BnB, Uber, AI) take regulatory risk, and how culture drives poor individual choices. Key topics include: when puffery gets murky; why it's dangerous to "convince yourself;" why it doesn't matter "who signed off;" and the "fraud triangle." Listen in to hear why humility and counterpoints are critical, what he learned about risk assessment from the Free Solo climber, the "difference between being an arms dealer and a transportation company," and how there are "a million ways to pay a bribe." In Part 2 of our conversation with Harvard Business School professor and author of Why They Do It, Dr. Eugene Soltes, we dive even deeper into the ethical gray zones that surround today’s most ambitious companies. From social media firms that hide behind “just connecting people” to leaders who convince themselves their actions are justified, Eugene explains how culture, rationalization, and groupthink drive even the smartest executives into trouble. You’ll learn why having a sign-off from Legal is never enough, why the “show me where it says I can’t” culture is so corrosive, and why CMOs must understand the difference between business risk and integrity risk. We also hear Eugene’s story of climbing (briefly) with Free Solo legend Alex Honnold and how that shaped his thinking around open-eyed risk—a model every marketing leader should understand. Topics include: • Why CMOs can’t hide behind Legal • The “arms dealer” mindset in corporate marketing • Risk culture vs. innovation culture • How companies accidentally incentivize bad behavior • Psychological safety vs. performative candor • The million ways bribes get disguised • The importance of personal humility—even in the C-Suite 📌 Sponsored by  @PublicisSapient  [https://studio.youtube.com/channel/UCqDal2iXO02gy5rNyhOmiwQ] – AI marketing platforms for personalization 00:00 – Intro 01:00 – Welcome Back: Convincing Yourself It’s Okay Mike and Eugene dive into self-deception and ethical gray zones in corporate decisions. 02:10 – Don’t Count on the Sign-Off Why “someone else signed off” isn’t a defense, and the importance of owning your decisions. 03:30 – The Explain-to-Your-Spouse Test Eugene’s replacement for the outdated “newspaper test” of ethical clarity. 04:45 – Know What You’re Signing Up For Ignorance as a leadership failure and why it’s never an excuse. 06:00 – Taking Ethical Stands as a Marketer What to do when legal says it’s okay but your gut says otherwise. 07:15 – Integrity vs. Strategic Risk A key distinction for marketers: smart business risk vs. ethical risk. 08:20 – “A Million Ways to Pay a Bribe” Creative examples of corruption and why culture enables them. 10:15 – The “Show Me Where It Says I Can’t” Culture How policy loopholes can foster ethical erosion. 12:00 – The Role of Legal and Compliance How to use counsel the right way—not just for CYA. 14:00 – The Fraud Triangle + Rationalization Risk How pressure, opportunity, and rationalization lead to ethical drift. 15:45 – Everyone Has the Chance to Be the Bad Apple The universal risk of stepping over the line—and why culture matters. 16:30 – Regulatory Arbitrage: Uber, AI, and the Gray Zone Why innovation often requires pushing boundaries—and accepting consequences. 18:00 – Free Solo Climbing and Open-Eyed Risk What Eugene learned about risk from Alex Honnold and what CMOs can take from it. 20:30 – Evaluating Risk from Multiple Angles Why great leaders view risk with humility and diversity of perspective. 22:00 – Groupthink and the Myth of Momentum The danger of unchecked optimism and lack of internal dissent. 23:30 – The Limits of Mandated Psychological Safety Why culture change can’t be legislated—and how real safety is built. 24:30 – Final Question: Funny Story or Practical Advice Eugene’s “most awkward moment” and his parting advice on cultivating humility. 27:00 – Wrap-Up and Upcoming Episodes Mike closes out with highlights from other case-based episodes. Eugene Soltes, Harvard Business School, white collar crime, CMO Confidential, Mike Linton, ethical marketing, corporate risk, compliance and marketing, groupthink, fraud triangle, Free Solo risk, Alex Honnold business, regulatory arbitrage, arms dealer logic, psychological safety, puffery vs fraud, legal sign-off, integrity in marketing, Publicis Sapient, personalized marketing AI, marketing leadership, executive ethics, culture of compliance, corporate governance, CMOs and risk See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy [https://art19.com/privacy] and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info [https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info].

A CMO Confidential Interview with Dr. Eugene Soltes, Harvard Business School Professor and author of "Why They Do It - Inside the Mind of the White Collar Criminal". Eugene discusses how most crimes start out as small, often unnoticed decisions made by strategic people, how nearly everyone has a chance to step over the line, why many companies (Air BnB, Uber, AI) take regulatory risk, and how culture drives poor individual choices. Key topics include: when puffery gets murky; why it's dangerous to "convince yourself;" why it doesn't matter "who signed off;" and the "fraud triangle." Listen in to hear why humility and counterpoints are critical, what he learned about risk assessment from the Free Solo climber, the "difference between being an arms dealer and a transportation company," and how there are "a million ways to pay a bribe." ⸻ 📄 Show Description Wonder what separates creative risk from criminal risk? In this provocative episode of CMO Confidential, five-time CMO Mike Linton sits down with Harvard Business School Professor and author of Why They Do It: Inside the Mind of the White Collar Criminal, Dr. Eugene Soltes. Together, they explore the murky line between strategic marketing and ethical missteps — and why most white-collar crimes don’t start with bad intentions. From regulatory arbitrage in tech and AI to the blurred boundaries of puffery vs. fraud, Eugene unpacks how culture, pressure, and self-justification fuel decisions that ruin reputations, careers, and companies. Key insights include: • Why “almost anyone” can cross the line • How Uber, Airbnb, and AI firms leverage legal gray zones • The danger of “convincing yourself” • When codes of ethics become puff pieces • The fraud triangle in corporate behavior • Lessons from arms dealers and social media companies • Why humility and counterpoints matter in marketing decisions This is a masterclass in risk, ethics, and the reputational cliff CMOs stand on every day. 🔗 Sponsored by  @PublicisSapient  [https://studio.youtube.com/channel/UCqDal2iXO02gy5rNyhOmiwQ] Sapient — Personalization at the speed of AI. Learn more at www.publicissapient.com 00:00 - Introduction & Sponsor Message 01:47 - Meet Dr. Eugene Soltes: Why He Wrote to White Collar Criminals 05:21 - Why White Collar Crime Happens: The Gray Area Between Ethics & Illegality 09:40 - The "Borderline" Class at Harvard and Who Falls into the Gray Zone 13:36 - Regulatory Arbitrage: Uber, Airbnb, and AI’s Legal Loopholes 18:45 - The Copyright Dilemma in Generative AI 21:30 - Puffery vs. Fraud: The Murky Messaging Middle 25:10 - When Ethics Codes Are Just Marketing 27:25 - Pharma Case Study: When Optimism Becomes Deception See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy [https://art19.com/privacy] and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info [https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info].

A CMO Confidential Interview with Teresa Barreira, EVP & Global CMO and CCO of Publicis Sapient, formerly the CMO of Deloitte Consulting. Teresa discusses the evolution of the role in an age of uncertainty, how the "Business of Marketing" has been replaced by "The Business of the Company," and her belief that B2B and B2C Marketing are converging. Key topics include: why she believes the role is evolving to a "Chief Value Officer" tasked with being a "growth architect;" the differing types of transformation; and why having both a positive attitude and an opinion are more important than ever. Tune in to hear the parallels between Darwin's finches, butterflies, and CMO's. Teresa shares her insights on how the “business of marketing” has been replaced by the “business of the company,” why the traditional CMO is evolving into a “Chief Value Officer,” and how B2B and B2C marketing are rapidly converging. She also covers the types of transformation companies are pursuing, the skills needed to thrive in a world dominated by AI, and why attitude, curiosity, and having a strong point of view are more important than ever. You won’t want to miss Teresa’s analogies about Darwin’s finches, butterflies, and the modern CMO, or her predictions for the future of marketing leadership. 🔗 Learn more about Publicis Sapient: https://www.publicissapient.com/ 👉 Subscribe for more insights on the future of marketing leadership: • 🎧 Apple Podcasts • 🎧 Spotify • 📺 YouTube ⸻ #cmoconfidential , #TeresaBarreira,  @PublicisSapient  [https://studio.youtube.com/channel/UCqDal2iXO02gy5rNyhOmiwQ] , #chiefmarketingofficer, #FutureofMarketing, #marketingleadership , #b2bmarketing, #b2cmarketing, #DigitalTransformation, #ChiefValueOfficer, #aiinmarketing, #MarketingCareers, #BusinessTransformation, #HybridWorkforce, #CMOEvolution, #MikeLinton, #CMOPodcast, #C-SuiteInsights, #GrowthStrategy, #MarketingStrategy, #ExecutiveLeadership, #corporatestrategy See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy [https://art19.com/privacy] and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info [https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info].