A Conversation with Caleb Gayle: Black Wall Street, Black Creeks, and the Fight to Remember

A Conversation with Robert Colby: Slavery, the Civil War, and the Hidden History of Slave Trading

Send us Fan Mail [https://www.buzzsprout.com/1668904/fan_mail/new] What if one of the biggest assumptions we make about slavery during the Civil War is incomplete? In this episode of Conversations with Kenyatta, Kenyatta sits down with historian Robert Colby to discuss his groundbreaking research on slave trading during the Civil War and his book, An Unholy Traffic. Together, they unpack how the domestic slave trade continued even during wartime, what that reveals about Confederate motivations, and how enslaved people navigated impossible choices in pursuit of freedom.  Robert shares how growing up near Civil War battlefields sparked his love of history and why the contradictions of slavery in American democracy led him to study the Civil War era and the institution of slavery. He also explains how archival discoveries, especially Confederate letters, led him to uncover evidence that enslaved people continued to be bought and sold throughout the war, despite assumptions that the practice had effectively ended when fighting began.  Kenyatta and Robert explore: *  Why slave trading continued during the Civil War and what that reveals about Confederate goals  *  How enslaved people faced the constant threat of forced sale while pursuing freedom  *  The role Confederate letters and military records play in understanding enslaved lives and motivations of enslavers  *  Why genealogists should consider Confederate letters, military records, and the records of the Freedmen's Bureau in their research  *  How cities like New Orleans, Charleston, Richmond, and Atlanta became key locations in wartime slave trading networks  *  Why the uncertainty at the end of the war and the transition from slavery to freedom deserves more study  This conversation challenges listeners to rethink slavery during wartime, Reconstruction, and even how we approach genealogy research. Whether you’re a family historian, Civil War enthusiast, or someone interested in the lived realities of enslavement, this episode offers new perspectives and important questions to consider.  Conversations with Kenyatta features Kenyatta D. Berry. Music for episodes 1-76 is "Good Vibe" by Ketsa, Music for episodes 77+ is “Rheme – Afrobeat x African Instrumental x Reggae Beat,” via Pixabay. Learn more about Kenyatta and her work at KenyattaBerry.com [https://kenyattaberry.com/]. You can also connect with her on social media: Instagram: @Kenyatta.Berry [https://www.instagram.com/kenyatta.berry/?hl=en] Facebook: facebook.com/KenyattaDB [https://www.facebook.com/kenyattadb/] Thanks for listening, we’ll see you next time on Conversations with Kenyatta.  We are dedicated to exploring and discussing various aspects of genealogy, history, culture, and social issues. We aim to shed light on untold stories and perspectives that enrich our understanding of the world. Disclaimer: All guest opinions expressed in Conversations with Kenyatta are their own and do not reflect the views of Kenyatta D. Berry. .

A Conversation with Caleb Gayle: Black Wall Street, Black Creeks, and the Fight to Remember

Send us Fan Mail [https://www.buzzsprout.com/1668904/fan_mail/new] What happens when forgotten histories, erased communities, and family stories collide? In this episode, Kenyatta sits down with journalist and author Caleb Gayle for a fascinating conversation about historical erasure, Black migration, Indigenous identity, genealogy, and the stories that shape how we understand America. Together, they explore Caleb’s acclaimed books Black Moses: A Saga of Ambition in the Fight for a Black State and We Refuse to Forget: A True Story of Black Creeks, American Identity, and Power, unpacking the overlooked history of Black towns in Oklahoma, Edward McCabe’s bold dream of creating a Black state, the legacy of Greenwood and the Tulsa Race Massacre, and the complicated intersections of Black and Indigenous histories. Along the way, Kenyatta and Caleb discuss oral history, genealogy, archival research, and what it really takes to uncover the stories history tried to leave behind. Whether you’re a family historian, genealogy enthusiast, writer, or simply curious about the untold stories that shape America, this is a conversation you won’t want to miss. In This Episode, We Discuss: * Caleb’s journey into journalism and how curiosity shaped his career * The story behind Black Moses and Edward McCabe’s vision for a Black state in Oklahoma * Why Oklahoma reveals so much about American history and identity * The hidden histories of Black towns and the legacy of Greenwood’s Black Wall Street * The Tulsa Race Massacre and historical erasure in America * Black Creek history, tribal citizenship, and the racialization of identity * Why oral history matters alongside traditional genealogy and written records * Caleb’s “write-around” approach to storytelling and historical research * How to uncover overlooked stories in local newspapers, archives, and family history * Advice for aspiring writers, storytellers, and family historians Books Mentioned * Black Moses: A Saga of Ambition in the Fight for a Black State by Caleb Gayle * We Refuse to Forget: A True Story of Black Creeks, American Identity, and Power by Caleb Gayle Conversations with Kenyatta features Kenyatta D. Berry. Music for episodes 1-76 is "Good Vibe" by Ketsa, Music for episodes 77+ is “Rheme – Afrobeat x African Instrumental x Reggae Beat,” via Pixabay. Learn more about Kenyatta and her work at KenyattaBerry.com [https://kenyattaberry.com/]. You can also connect with her on social media: Instagram: @Kenyatta.Berry [https://www.instagram.com/kenyatta.berry/?hl=en] Facebook: facebook.com/KenyattaDB [https://www.facebook.com/kenyattadb/] Thanks for listening, we’ll see you next time on Conversations with Kenyatta.  We are dedicated to exploring and discussing various aspects of genealogy, history, culture, and social issues. We aim to shed light on untold stories and perspectives that enrich our understanding of the world. Disclaimer: All guest opinions expressed in Conversations with Kenyatta are their own and do not reflect the views of Kenyatta D. Berry. .

A Conversation with Michele Ronnick: Recovering Black Classical Scholars William Sanders Scarborough, George Lightfoot, and an Archival Detective Story

Send us Fan Mail [https://www.buzzsprout.com/1668904/fan_mail/new] What happens when a passing reference in graduate school turns into a decades-long archival investigation? In this episode, classicist Michele Ronnick shares the remarkable scholarly detective story that led her to recover the life and legacy of William Sanders Scarborough, a formerly enslaved scholar who became one of the most important Black classicists in American history. Beginning during the intellectual debates surrounding Black Athena, Dr. Ronnick questioned why Black participation in classical studies seemed largely absent from academic narratives. That question launched an international archival search involving rare books, unpublished manuscripts, institutional collections, and forgotten correspondence. Her work ultimately resulted in the recovery and publication of Scarborough’s autobiography and renewed recognition of his groundbreaking 1881 Greek textbook—considered the first foreign-language textbook authored by a person of African descent. The conversation expands beyond Scarborough to illuminate a broader intellectual network of underrecognized Black classical scholars connected through institutions like Howard University and the AME Church. Along the way, we explore archival discovery, academic exclusion, historical erasure, and the ongoing importance of student research in preserving overlooked histories. Episode Timeline 00:00 Why Classics Mattered  00:24 Graduate School Origins  02:02 Black Athena Era Questions  02:53 Finding Scarborough  05:40 Chasing Lost Archives  09:24 Autobiography Breakthrough  12:04 Beyond Scarborough’s Network  18:46 Calhoun Quote and Historical Irony  23:37 Teaching and Legacy  27:07 Building the Photo Installation  28:08 Hunting Flia Campbell  29:33 Archive Breakthrough Photo  31:12 Expanding the Scholar List  32:19 Pinkney Warren Russell Evidence  34:43 Greener and Scarborough Letters  40:22 George Lightfoot at Howard  45:50 Inspiring New Researchers About the Guest Dr. Michele Valerie Ronnick is Distinguished Service Professor Emerita of Classics at Wayne State University and a leading scholar in recovering the history of Black classicists in the United States. Her archival research has reshaped understanding of African American participation in classical education and scholarship. Her edited volume, The Autobiography of William Sanders Scarborough: An American Journey from Slavery, with a foreword by Henry Louis Gates Jr., is now available in paperback from Wayne State University Press (ISBN: 9780814332252). Learn more about her work:  Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michele_Valerie_Ronnick [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michele_Valerie_Ronnick] Conversations with Kenyatta features Kenyatta D. Berry. Music for episodes 1-76 is "Good Vibe" by Ketsa, Music for episodes 77+ is “Rheme – Afrobeat x African Instrumental x Reggae Beat,” via Pixabay. Learn more about Kenyatta and her work at KenyattaBerry.com [https://kenyattaberry.com/]. You can also connect with her on social media: Instagram: @Kenyatta.Berry [https://www.instagram.com/kenyatta.berry/?hl=en] Facebook: facebook.com/KenyattaDB [https://www.facebook.com/kenyattadb/] Thanks for listening, we’ll see you next time on Conversations with Kenyatta.  We are dedicated to exploring and discussing various aspects of genealogy, history, culture, and social issues. We aim to shed light on untold stories and perspectives that enrich our understanding of the world. Disclaimer: All guest opinions expressed in Conversations with Kenyatta are their own and do not reflect the views of Kenyatta D. Berry. .

A Conversation with Debra Britt & The National Black Doll Museum

Send us Fan Mail [https://www.buzzsprout.com/1668904/fan_mail/new] In this episode of Conversations with Kenyatta, Debra Britt, founder of the National Black Doll Museum, shares her powerful personal journey and the story behind her life’s work preserving Black history and identity through dolls. Debra describes how her passion began in childhood when her grandmother helped her create her first Black doll — a moment that sparked a lifelong mission. She reflects on the adversity she faced, the mentors and educators who shaped her path, and how cultural pride and representation fueled her calling to collect, restore, and create Black dolls. Throughout the conversation, she explains how dolls serve as storytellers, teaching tools, and healing instruments for children and adults alike. The museum’s collection preserves heritage, affirms identity, and opens important conversations about race, history, and resilience. Debra also discusses the realities of running a community-supported museum, including the ongoing need for volunteers and financial support. ⏱️ Episode Timeline 00:00 — Introduction and Early Inspiration Debra’s childhood and creating her first Black doll with her grandmother 02:03 — Facing Adversity and Finding Strength Early challenges and how resilience took shape 05:38 — Family Influence and Cultural Pride The role of family, mentors, and educators 09:29 — Storytelling and Education Through Dolls How dolls communicate history and identity 10:11 — Dolls as Silent Historians Material culture as historical record 13:44 — The Healing Power of Dolls Emotional connection and therapeutic impact 17:25 — Doll-Making Traditions and History Cultural and historical craft practices 20:30 — Doll Therapy and Community Engagement Programs and outreach work 23:57 — Letting Go and Dealing with Bullies Personal growth and hard lessons 25:32 — Teaching Children About Racism and Slavery Age-appropriate truth telling 26:32 — Special Dolls and Personal Stories Meaningful pieces in the collection 28:52 — Memorable Visitor Reactions Moments that stand out 33:38 — Community Support and Volunteer Needs Behind-the-scenes realities of the museum 40:52 — Acquiring and Valuing Dolls Collection practices and preservation 44:23 — Closing Reflections Final thoughts and message to listeners If this conversation moved you, consider supporting the museum’s work to preserve history, representation, and cultural identity through Black dolls and storytelling. You can help by donating, volunteering, spreading the word, or planning a visit. https://nbdmhc.org/ [https://nbdmhc.org/] Conversations with Kenyatta features Kenyatta D. Berry. Music for episodes 1-76 is "Good Vibe" by Ketsa, Music for episodes 77+ is “Rheme – Afrobeat x African Instrumental x Reggae Beat,” via Pixabay. Learn more about Kenyatta and her work at KenyattaBerry.com [https://kenyattaberry.com/]. You can also connect with her on social media: Instagram: @Kenyatta.Berry [https://www.instagram.com/kenyatta.berry/?hl=en] Facebook: facebook.com/KenyattaDB [https://www.facebook.com/kenyattadb/] Thanks for listening, we’ll see you next time on Conversations with Kenyatta.  We are dedicated to exploring and discussing various aspects of genealogy, history, culture, and social issues. We aim to shed light on untold stories and perspectives that enrich our understanding of the world. Disclaimer: All guest opinions expressed in Conversations with Kenyatta are their own and do not reflect the views of Kenyatta D. Berry. .

A Conversation with Dr. Tess Chakkalakal

Send us Fan Mail [https://www.buzzsprout.com/1668904/fan_mail/new] Exploring the Life and Legacy of Charles W. Chesnutt Guest: Dr. Tess Chakkalakal Host: Kenyatta D. Berry In this episode, Kenyatta D. Berry speaks with Dr. Tess Chakkalakal, a scholar of nineteenth-century African American and American literature, about her new book A Matter of Complexion: The Life and Fictions of Charles W. Chesnutt. Together, they explore Chesnutt’s remarkable career as one of the earliest African American fiction writers to achieve mainstream publication, and how his work continues to challenge and illuminate issues of race, identity, and American history. Dr. Chakkalakal discusses Chesnutt’s influential novel The Marrow of Tradition, along with his complex portrayals of slavery, marriage, and freedom. The conversation delves into the intersections of literature, politics, and cultural memory, highlighting the importance of reading across genres and time periods to better understand the American story. They also touch on Dr. Chakkalakal’s broader research, the preservation of historic writers’ homes, and the growing impact of book bans on literary education. Books and Authors Mentioned * Harriet Beecher Stowe, Uncle Tom’s Cabin * Paul Laurence Dunbar * Sutton E. Griggs, Imperium in Imperio * Charles W. Chesnutt, The Marrow of Tradition * Judy Blume, Are You There God? It’s Me, Margaret * Virgil * Homer * Alexandre Dumas * Cicero * Henry James * Edith Wharton * Mark Twain * William Dean Howells, A Modern Instance * Brock Clarke * Dead Writers: A Podcast About Great American Writers and Where They Lived * Idlewild, Michigan About the Guest Dr. Tess Chakkalakal [pronounced “Chah-KAHL-ickle”] is the author of Novel Bondage: Slavery, Marriage, and Freedom in Nineteenth-Century America (University of Illinois Press, 2011), winner of the Robert K. Martin Prize for Best Book on American Literature. She is also co-editor of Jim Crow, Literature, and the Legacy of Sutton E. Griggs and Imperium in Imperio: A Critical Edition. Her newest book, A Matter of Complexion: The Life and Fictions of Charles W. Chesnutt, is available now from St. Martin’s Press. Dr. Chakkalakal is co-host of the award-winning podcast Dead Writers and serves on the boards of the Harriet Beecher Stowe Center and the Maine Maritime Museum. Conversations with Kenyatta features Kenyatta D. Berry. Music for episodes 1-76 is "Good Vibe" by Ketsa, Music for episodes 77+ is “Rheme – Afrobeat x African Instrumental x Reggae Beat,” via Pixabay. Learn more about Kenyatta and her work at KenyattaBerry.com [https://kenyattaberry.com/]. You can also connect with her on social media: Instagram: @Kenyatta.Berry [https://www.instagram.com/kenyatta.berry/?hl=en] Facebook: facebook.com/KenyattaDB [https://www.facebook.com/kenyattadb/] Thanks for listening, we’ll see you next time on Conversations with Kenyatta.  We are dedicated to exploring and discussing various aspects of genealogy, history, culture, and social issues. We aim to shed light on untold stories and perspectives that enrich our understanding of the world. Disclaimer: All guest opinions expressed in Conversations with Kenyatta are their own and do not reflect the views of Kenyatta D. Berry. .