Your ROAS Is Lying to You: The Profit Playbook for E-commerce CMOs, with Liam Patterson | 008

The Leadership Problem Behind Marketing Performance, with Dr Julia Morgan | 009

What separates high-performing marketing teams from those stuck in cycles of burnout, friction, and underperformance? In this episode of Flipping the Playbook, Reza Moaiandin sits down with leadership expert Dr Julia Morgan to explore the often-overlooked relationship between leadership quality and marketing quality — and why stronger teams rarely emerge by chance. Together, they unpack the hidden dynamics shaping team performance, from psychological safety and trust to the rise of “accidental leaders” in modern organisations. The conversation challenges the idea that great leaders must always have the answers, instead arguing that the best teams are built through clarity, curiosity, and environments where people feel safe to contribute. Whether you’re a CMO, marketing leader, founder, or anyone responsible for leading knowledge workers, this episode offers a thoughtful look at what it really takes to create teams capable of sustained performance. IN THIS EPISODE, WE DISCUSS: * Why marketing performance is often a reflection of leadership quality * The problem with “accidental leadership” in modern organisations * How psychological safety influences creativity, confidence, and performance * Why micromanagement quietly damages marketing teams * The difference between leading knowledge workers versus operational teams * Why high-performing teams don’t happen by accident * How better leadership creates better decision-making, trust, and outcomes KEY TAKEAWAY Strong marketing outcomes are rarely just about strategy, channels, or execution. More often than not, they’re shaped by the quality of leadership behind the scenes — the trust, clarity, and culture leaders create for their teams. ABOUT DR JULIA MORGAN Dr Julia Morgan is a leadership specialist focused on helping organisations build stronger, healthier, and more effective teams. Her work explores leadership capability, workplace culture, psychological safety, and how organisations can create the conditions for people to thrive. Find Julia on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-julia-morgan-30b2798/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-julia-morgan-30b2798/] Flipping the Playbook is a production of SALT.agency [http://SALT.agency]. It is hosted by Reza Moaiandin. Find him on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/moaiandin/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/moaiandin/]

Your ROAS Is Lying to You: The Profit Playbook for E-commerce CMOs, with Liam Patterson | 008

Most e-commerce brands think they’re scaling. In reality, they’ve hit a ceiling. In this episode of Flipping the Playbook, Liam Patterson, CEO of Bidnamic, explains why one of performance marketing’s most trusted metrics—ROAS—is quietly holding CMOs back. Because ROAS doesn’t measure profit. And if you’re optimising for the wrong metric, you’re not just limiting growth—you may be scaling inefficiency. This conversation unpacks the structural issue at the heart of modern performance marketing: the disconnect between media optimisation and commercial reality. Liam shares why Google Shopping should be treated as a dynamic system, not just another channel, and how leading e-commerce brands are shifting from media buying to profit engineering. If your growth has plateaued, or your paid media performance isn’t translating into real commercial impact, this episode will change how you think about scaling. Key Topics Covered * Why ROAS is a misleading metric for CMOs * The hidden scaling ceiling in performance marketing * Why more budget doesn’t equal more growth * The difference between revenue optimisation and profit optimisation * How Google Shopping actually works (and why most brands get it wrong) * The shift from campaign management to profit engineering * Why product-level data is the key to unlocking performance * How to align marketing with wider commercial strategy Key Takeaways * ROAS ≠ profitability — and optimising for it can distort decision-making * Scaling paid media without profit visibility leads to diminishing returns * Google Shopping performance is driven by product economics, not just bidding strategy * True growth comes from aligning media spend with margin, pricing, and demand * The next evolution of performance marketing is commercial, not tactical About the Guest Liam Patterson is the CEO of Bidnamic, a technology company focused on helping e-commerce brands unlock profit from Google Shopping through advanced optimisation of product-level data and bidding strategies. Resources & Links * Learn more about Bidnamic: www.bidnamic.com/ [http://www.bidnamic.com/] * Connect with Liam: https://www.linkedin.com/in/liam-patterson/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/liam-patterson/] * Subscribe to Flipping the Playbook for more conversations with leading CMOs If this episode challenged how you think about performance marketing: * Follow / Subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes * Share this with your marketing or e-commerce team * Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify Flipping the Playbook is produced by SALT.agency [http://SALT.agency]: https://salt.agency/ [https://salt.agency/]

Clarity, credibility or chaos: Winning travel marketing in 2026, with Matthew Gardiner | 007

In this episode, Matthew Gardiner, fractional CMO and former marketing leader at International Airlines Group (British Airways and Iberia), explains why most travel brands are still optimising for a funnel that no longer exists — and what needs to change as AI reshapes discovery, trust, and conversion. Matthew breaks down how travel planning is shifting from a linear journey into a conversational experience, where AI compresses inspiration, research, and booking into a single interaction. He explores what it takes for brands to be surfaced and recommended in these environments, why clarity of positioning and credibility signals matter more than ever, and how structured content influences visibility in AI-led journeys. He also explains why the biggest barrier to conversion is no longer inspiration but confidence, and how reducing decision friction can unlock significant commercial impact. The conversation also tackles one of the most persistent challenges in marketing: the perceived trade-off between brand and performance. Matthew argues that this is a false choice, outlining how brand investment acts as a multiplier for performance efficiency, and why many travel brands are underinvesting at a critical moment of market change. He also shares the signals CMOs should track to demonstrate brand impact, and what separates the teams that will adapt from those that won’t. This episode is essential listening for CMOs and marketing leaders in travel and ecommerce who want to understand how AI is changing search behaviour, how to stay visible in a world of conversational discovery, and how to build a marketing system that drives both demand and conversion. Matthew Gardiner is a fractional marketing leader and growth partner to travel brands and destinations. He has led global marketing functions within FTSE 100 organisations, including International Airlines Group, and advises businesses on brand strategy, performance marketing, and growth in rapidly evolving digital environments. Flipping the Playbook is a podcast for CMOs in enterprise businesses, featuring conversations with marketing leaders who are challenging conventional thinking and navigating the transformation of marketing. Hosted by: Reza Moaiandin https://salt.agency/contact/ [https://salt.agency/contact/] Guest: Matthew Gardiner https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewgardiner/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewgardiner/]

How to build, position, and scale a trust-based B2B company, with SeedLegals' Anthony Rose | 006

In this episode of Flipping the Playbook, Reza Moaiandin sits down with Anthony Rose, co-founder of SeedLegals and creator of BBC iPlayer, to explore how one of the most complex and opaque processes in business — fundraising — has been fundamentally rethought. From simplifying legal complexity to building trust at scale, this conversation is a masterclass in identifying broken systems and rebuilding them around clarity, speed, and user needs. Follow Anthony on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anrose/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/anrose/] Please like, subscribe and share this podcast.

How WineDrops optimised growth around one surprising behaviour metric, with Jonny Inglis |005

In this episode, Jonny Inglis, co-founder of the wine platform Wine Drops, explains how to build a marketing engine driven by customer behaviour rather than campaign activity — and why focusing on a single metric can outperform dozens of performance dashboards. Jonny reveals how Wine Drops structures its entire growth strategy around one behavioural signal: whether a customer places their first order on day one. From high-volume creative testing and scrappy founder-led advertising to designing offers that attract high-value customers rather than cheap sign-ups, he explains how this approach shapes everything from marketing campaigns to product design. He also shares why cheap CAC often leads to the wrong customers, how pattern-interrupt creative outperforms polished campaigns, and why mastering one marketing channel can be more powerful than spreading budget across many. This is essential listening for CMOs and growth leaders trying to cut through marketing noise and build systems that prioritise customer behaviour, retention, and long-term value over vanity metrics. Jonny Inglis is the co-founder of Wine Drops, a private membership wine platform that gives customers access to trade-level pricing on some of the world’s best wines. The company has built its growth engine around data-driven experimentation, high-volume creative testing, and a product-led approach to customer acquisition and retention. Wine Drops has expanded rapidly in the UK and recently launched in the United States under the brand Case Drops. Flipping the Playbook is a podcast for CMOs in enterprise businesses, featuring conversations with marketing leaders who are challenging conventional wisdom and navigating the transformation of marketing. Hosted by: Reza Moaiandin https://salt.agency/contact/ [https://salt.agency/contact/] Guest: Jonny Inglis, co-founder of WineDrops: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonny-inglis-4761b888/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonny-inglis-4761b888/]