Ep 10 | The Camp Messaging Problem: Why Clarity Beats Cleverness

Ep 12 | The Real Reason Guests Rebook Your Camp

Refreshing Mountain has doubled revenue over the last decade while maintaining a strong focus on guest relationships and retention. In this episode, Administrative Director Justin Harnish shares the principles that helped the camp grow without losing the culture that built its reputation. Mark opens with a personal dedication to his mother’s 85th birthday and reflects on the people and experiences that shape camp leaders over time. Carl’s quick marketing tip explains why camps should stop sending every audience to the same homepage and how dedicated landing pages can improve conversions and lead generation. Justin then shares his personal camp story and how a formative camp experience shaped both his faith and belief in the long-term power of camp ministry. The conversation explores the two “Christian marketing principles” guiding Refreshing Mountain’s growth strategy. “Relationships Trump Everything” focuses on intentional guest care and personalized communication. “Return Business Is Worth Investing In” covers stewardship, rebooking strategy, guest retention, and why long-term relationships drive sustainable growth. Justin also shares lessons around guest feedback, occupancy planning, and how adding meeting room capacity became a major growth driver for year-round bookings. Keywords camp marketing, camp retention, rebooking strategy, retreat center growth, guest experience, Christian camp leadership, landing pages for camps Sound Bites * “Relationships trump everything.” * “Return business is a metric of integrity.” * “The camps growing fastest online make visitors instantly feel: ‘This is exactly for me.’” * “Happy returning guests are your best marketing.” Hosts Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth [https://go.inspiringgrowth.biz/] Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow [https://improveandgrow.com/industries/camp-marketing/] Guest Justin Harnish, Refreshing Mountain Chapters 00:05 Welcome & Episode Dedication 02:38 Quick Camp Marketing Tip 08:40 Justin's Camp Story 09:29 The Power of Camp Experiences 11:57 Refreshing Mountain Background 14:51 Balancing Business and Ministry 15:57 Org Challenges During Season of Growth 22:52 Principles of Relationship-Driven Service 24:53 Understanding Rebooking and Customer Feedback 26:42 Enhancing Customer Experience Through Personalization 30:09 The Importance of Rebooking and Customer Relationships 37:13 Investing in Return Business 45:20 The Impact of Meeting Room Capacity on Revenue 45:57 Growth Partnership with Improve & Grow 48:22 Making Way for Innovation at Camp 53:22 Episode Debrief with Mark & Carl 59:42 Closing Message & New Website Features Resources Refreshing Mountain Christian Marketing Principles [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aGUHG6pTLSwHrKxPCXKgSyEfSySehCG6/view?usp=sharing] Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > [https://growyourcamppodcast.com] Want Help Growing Your Camp? * Schedule a Chat with Mark > [https://meetings.hubspot.com/mark607] * Schedule a Chat with Carl > [https://grm.improveandgrow.com/retreat-camp-discovery-call]

Ep 11 | How a Camp Went from Struggling to Waitlisted

Hume New England launched with a bold mission: bring the Hume camp experience to the Northeast and expand gospel impact in a region with fewer large Christian camp ministries. But early years brought operational setbacks, financial pressure, staffing challenges, and a camp model that didn’t fit the realities of East Coast churches. Before the interview, Mark shares a marketing tip about “riding the wave” instead of trying to create one. He explains how listening to church leaders led Hume New England to shorten camp sessions, lower pricing, and redesign programs around what churches and families actually needed—changes that ultimately helped fill more beds and increase ministry impact. Brian Mount then shares what it was like stepping into Hume New England as COO during COVID and leading a turnaround effort that required operational changes, measurable marketing systems, and a willingness to challenge long-standing assumptions. The conversation explores adapting camp structures for smaller churches, embracing guest groups, improving follow-up and marketing accountability, and overcoming internal resistance to change. The results were significant: * Summer campers grew from roughly 620 to nearly 1,200 * Guest group revenue increased from about $500,000 to $1.4 million * Camp seasons moved from empty beds to waitlists * Staff morale and ministry momentum dramatically improved Brian also shares encouragement for camp leaders navigating difficult seasons and explains why understanding your market may require rethinking long-held traditions without compromising mission. Keywords camp growth, Christian camp leadership, camp marketing, guest group strategy, summer camp enrollment, camp profitability, church partnerships, Hume New England, ministry growth, leadership development Sound Bites “Tradition is a tool. It’s not a trophy.” “We were doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results.” “Every empty bed is a potential missed opportunity for someone to hear the gospel.” “Start small and don’t be afraid to fail.” Hosts Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth [https://go.inspiringgrowth.biz/] Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow [https://improveandgrow.com/industries/camp-marketing/] Guest Brian Mount, LifeShape International Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Background 00:56 Quick Camp Marketing Tip 04:19 Brian Mount Introduction & Camp Story 07:38 Leadership and Transformation at Hume 09:13 Early Days at Hume 15:51 Lessons Learned from Early Struggles 17:39 Personal Journey and Influences 19:09 The Decision to Partner for Growth 23:51 Strategic Changes and Marketing Innovations 29:36 Indicators of Positive Change 34:00 Achieving Profitability and Impact 40:06 Encouragement for Struggling Camp Leaders Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > [https://growyourcamppodcast.com] If this episode was helpful: * Follow / subscribe to the podcast * Share it with another camp leader who could benefit Want Help Growing Your Camp? * Schedule a Chat with Mark > [https://meetings.hubspot.com/mark607] * Schedule a Chat with Carl > [https://grm.improveandgrow.com/retreat-camp-discovery-call]

Ep 10 | The Camp Messaging Problem: Why Clarity Beats Cleverness

In this episode Mark opens with a tribute to one of his earliest camp mentors, Neil Fichthorn, the longtime executive director at Sandy Cove. Mark shares the leadership lessons Neil taught him — including the phrase that became foundational to this podcast: “You can’t minister to empty beds.” Carl’s quick camp marketing tip focuses on why your Google Business Profile may be quietly costing you bookings. He explains how local search results work, why reviews and categories matter, and how small profile updates can improve visibility for camps and retreat centers. The featured conversation is with Casey Fuerst, owner of Tic Tac Toe Marketing, who spent 18 years serving at a Lutheran camp in Nebraska before launching an agency focused on camps and nonprofits. Casey shares how camp shaped her personally and why she now helps camps communicate more clearly. The conversation explores one of the biggest problems Casey sees on camp websites: cluttered messaging. Using her “hall closet” analogy, she explains why trying to communicate everything at once confuses parents and retreat guests instead of helping them take action. The episode also covers Donald Miller’s StoryBrand framework and practical ways camps can simplify messaging, strengthen positioning, and improve marketing clarity. Keywords camp marketing, camp website design, StoryBrand for camps, camp messaging, Christian camp marketing Sound Bites * “If everybody thinks their stuff belongs on the front page of the website, it becomes the junk drawer.” * “Clear is kind. Clever is not.” * “Most organizations are communicating at an eight when customers only need a two.” Hosts Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth [https://go.inspiringgrowth.biz/] Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow [https://improveandgrow.com/industries/camp-marketing/] Guest Casey Fuerst, Tic Tac Toe Marketing [https://www.tictactoemarketingforcamps.com/] Chapters 00:05 Introduction 02:11 Today's Topic: Messaging & Clarity 02:45 Quick Tip: Your Google Business Profile 10:19 Messaging and Brand Positioning 10:51 Meet Casey Fuerst 12:31 Casey's Camp Story 12:34 Personal Camp Stories and Experiences 13:37 The Impact of Camp Experiences on Young Adults 16:11 Marketing Insights for Camps 16:20 The Hall Closet Problem 19:28 The Importance of Clear Messaging 22:01 The StoryBrand Framework 22:11 The StoryBrand Framework in Action 25:14 Real-World Examples of Messaging Success 25:43 Finding Your One Message 28:14 Navigating New Audiences and Digital Marketing 28:56 Messaging Wins: Real Stories 31:14 Celebrating Podcast Milestones and Future Directions 38:56 Where Messaging Works Best 42:45 Reaching New Audiences 46:14 Wrap-Up & Celebrating Episode 10 Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > [https://growyourcamppodcast.com] If this episode was helpful: * Follow / subscribe to the podcast * Share it with another camp leader who could benefit Want Help Growing Your Camp? * Schedule a Chat with Mark > [https://meetings.hubspot.com/mark607] * Schedule a Chat with Carl > [https://grm.improveandgrow.com/retreat-camp-discovery-call]

Ep 9 | How Systems & Culture Helped Emmanuel Pines Double Revenue

In this episode Mark shares a quick tip about rebooking—the most affordable and often overlooked path to growth. He explains why camps should aim for 60–80% rebooking, how it reflects guest experience, and why low rebooking points to a systems problem, not demand. He also outlines practical steps: know your numbers, pursue rebookings immediately, and protect dates. Carl then interviews Kathi and Bob Terrell, who share how Emanuel Pines Camp grew from roughly $900,000 to over $2 million in a few years. Their story begins with a plateau—limited growth, aging facilities, and reactive leadership—until they chose to pursue growth intentionally and bring in outside perspective. The biggest changes weren’t just marketing. They clarified positioning, improved first impressions, and focused on attracting the right audience. At the same time, they invested in their team with systems like the “I See You” recognition program and mission-driven onboarding to reinforce culture daily. They also introduced tools like the “Peace Card” to train staff in customer service and ensure every guest interaction reflects their mission. Along with ongoing facility improvements and a focus on removing distractions, these changes strengthened experience and loyalty. As demand increased, they adapted by adding staff, clarifying roles, and implementing virtual sales to improve responsiveness and conversion. The result was not just revenue growth, but stronger rebooking, healthier culture, and a more sustainable operation. Keywords camp marketing strategy, rebooking systems, guest experience, team culture, retreat center growth, virtual sales, camp leadership, first impressions, staff development Sound Bites * “If you’re below 50% rebooking, something is broken.” * “We started looking at camp through someone else’s eyes.” * “We just became more intentional about everything.” * “Nothing is more important than attending to guest needs.” Hosts Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth [https://go.inspiringgrowth.biz/]Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow [https://improveandgrow.com/industries/camp-marketing/] Guests Kathi Terrell & Bob Terrell, Emmanuel Pines Camp Chapters 00:00 Episode Welcome 00:45 Quick Camp Marketing Tip: Rebooking 07:36 Bob and Kathy's Camp Journey 13:15 Understanding Emanuel Pines Camp 15:42 Challenges and Growth at Emanuel Pines 23:26 Key Changes Leading to Growth 23:56 Understanding Purposeful Growth Strategies 25:45 Cultivating Team Relationships and Culture 28:00 Mission-Driven Orientation and Guest Experience 30:20 The Peace Card: Enhancing Customer Service 35:24 Navigating Marriage and Leadership 40:20 Virtual Sales: A New Approach to Growth 46:30 Sustaining Marriage and Leadership in Camp Management 51:41 Podcast Intro Animation 16x9.mp4 Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > [https://growyourcamppodcast.com] If this episode was helpful: * Follow / subscribe to the podcast * Share it with another camp leader who could benefit Want Help Growing Your Camp? * Schedule a Chat with Mark > [https://meetings.hubspot.com/mark607] * Schedule a Chat with Carl > [https://grm.improveandgrow.com/retreat-camp-discovery-call]

Ep 8 | From Spiky Bookings to Steady Growth

In this episode, Carl shares a practical marketing tip on turning past guests into your next booking engine—one of the fastest, most cost-effective ways to increase occupancy without chasing entirely new leads. By segmenting your audience and sending timely, relevant follow-up emails, camps can unlock a major source of repeat business that often goes underused. Then Mark interviews Bob Briscoe, Executive Director of Williamsburg Christian Retreat Center, brings a long-term perspective shaped by decades in camping—from his early experiences as a camper and trail guide to leading the organization through seasons of change. That background informs how he approaches leadership, balancing mission, relationships, and financial sustainability. The conversation walks through how the camp moved from inconsistent, “spiky” bookings to steady growth. Faced with unpredictable revenue and underperforming programs, Bob and his team made key decisions to simplify their offerings, focus on profitable guest groups, and invest in improving their marketing visibility. The result was fewer gaps, stronger midweek bookings, and significant growth in room nights—including doubling occupancy in one of their primary lodging facilities. This episode highlights what actually drives sustainable growth: clear decisions about what to stop doing, systems that support consistent marketing, and the willingness to seek outside help when internal capacity runs thin. Keywords camp growth, retreat center marketing, camp occupancy, guest group strategy, camp revenue growth, digital marketing for camps, camp leadership, camp operations, retreat booking consistency Sound Bites * “Our bookings were spiky… full weekends and then crickets.” * “The big change was answering the phone because it was ringing.” * “You can’t afford the person you need—so get the right help another way.” * “Be open to asking for help and being teachable.” Hosts Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth [https://go.inspiringgrowth.biz/]Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow [https://improveandgrow.com/industries/camp-marketing/] Guest Bob Briscoe, Williamsburg Christian Retreat Center Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Podcast Format 00:05 Marketing Strategies for Camps 03:00 Bob Briscoe's Journey in Camp Leadership 06:05 Understanding Williamsburg Christian Retreat Center 09:12 Challenges and Changes in Camp Operations 12:14 Navigating Program Adjustments and Guest Groups 16:51 Innovative Retreat Solutions 17:58 Recognizing the Need for External Help 19:23 Evaluating Marketing Partnerships 22:15 Navigating Budget Approvals 24:20 Implementing Changes Post-COVID 26:37 Tracking Revenue Growth 28:24 Creative Strategies During Challenges 29:24 Future Growth Focus 31:07 Encouragement for Stuck Camp Directors 35:33 Personal Insights on Marriage Growth Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > [https://growyourcamppodcast.com] If this episode was helpful: * Follow / subscribe to the podcast * Share it with another camp leader who could benefit Want Help Growing Your Camp? * Schedule a Chat with Mark > [https://meetings.hubspot.com/mark607] * Schedule a Chat with Carl > [https://grm.improveandgrow.com/retreat-camp-discovery-call]