Ep 11 - Toward What Matters: Sarah Markowitz on CBT, Values, and Choice

Ep 12 - The Body Says NO: Casey Ehrlich on PDA (Pervasive Drive for Autonomy)

All of us have some level of innate desire for autonomy and equality. But for some, the need for autonomy and equality tangles with Survival Brain in ways that have major impacts on their well-being, even overriding basic survival needs like food, sleep, hygiene, or physical safety. Though it can sometimes look that way from the outside, PDA (Persistent Drive for Autonomy or Pathological Demand Avoidance) is not just a knee-jerk, “You can’t tell me what to do!” PDA causes outsized reactions to perceived threats–threats which can be invisible or confusing to parents, educators, and therapists.     Today’s guest, PDA expert Casey Ehrlich, defines PDA as a nervous system disability that requires a holistic approach that goes beyond in-the-moment behavioral intervention. In our conversation, she movingly recounts how her personal experience raising children with PDA caused her to turn her research background to understanding what PDA is and developing and validating an approach to managing this challenging disorder. And we talk about PDA’s impacts on kids and families, what makes it so mind-bending for outsiders, and how sometimes disrupting and confronting systems can be a benefit of having a PDA brain. Listen to the full episode to hear: * Why Casey defines PDA as a neurotype separate from other kinds of demand avoidance seen with autism, executive dysfunction, or anxiety * Five common elements of PDA that can help parents identify and differentiate it from other concerns * How PDA-ers’ orientation toward autonomy, equality, and justice can become a source of personal and community strength * How a drive for autonomy can show up with other neurotypes, and when it crosses into PDA * Casey’s experience navigating two very different presentations of PDA and burnout with her two kids * Tools for parents to observe patterns and collect data, (mostly) keep their cool, leave space for their own feelings, and protect their boundaries and sense of self Learn more about Casey Ehrlich, PhD: * At Peace Parents [http://www.atpeaceparents.com/] * Instagram: @atpeaceparents [https://www.instagram.com/atpeaceparents/] * Facebook: @atpeaceparents [https://www.facebook.com/atpeaceparents] * YouTube: @atpeaceparents  [https://www.youtube.com/@atpeaceparents] * At Peace Parents Podcast [https://www.atpeaceparents.com/podcast] Learn more about I Hate You. What’s For Dinner? [https://www.podpage.com/hate-you-whats-for-dinner/] Learn more about Gillian Boudreau, PhD.: * Website [https://gillianboudreauphd.com/] * Instagram @clearconnectionpsychology [https://www.instagram.com/clearconnectionpsychology/?hl=en] Learn more about Rob Galligan, PhD.: * Instagram @dr.robert.galligan [https://www.instagram.com/dr.robert.galligan/] Resources: * PDA North America [https://pdanorthamerica.org/] * PDA Society [https://www.pdasociety.org.uk/] * Rabbi Shoshana [https://www.rabbishoshana.com/] * Amanda Diekman | Low Demand Parenting [https://www.amandadiekman.com/] * What is DIRFloortime? [https://www.icdl.com/dir/floortime]

Ep 11 - Toward What Matters: Sarah Markowitz on CBT, Values, and Choice

There are many ways to do therapy, and many reasons why people gravitate to certain modalities, both as patients and practitioners.  And while there are some who will insist that their way is the way, we’re happy to acknowledge where our preferred methods overlap and diverge with others, and how different therapies can help people arrive at the same place of better self-understanding and moving through the world with more ease.  Today, we’re chatting with Gillian’s longtime friend and Cognitive Behavioral Therapist extraordinaire, Sarah Markowitz. We get into what’s similar in CBT and a psychodynamic approach, what’s different, and why these schools of therapy tend to appeal to certain people. We also talk about the tricky balancing act between direction and curiosity for therapists, educators, and parents when engaging kids on behavioral change. Listen to the full episode to hear: * How Sarah investigates resistance to change from a stance that is both directive and client-centered * How building experience as therapists leads to more overlap in our approaches than not * The layers of thoughts, rules, and core beliefs that CBT uncovers over time * How both therapists and parenting advice have shifted to be more descriptive than directive * How Sarah’s logical, but not rigid, household, along with swimming, summer camp, and horses, shaped her ability to self-regulate and her default state under stress  Learn more about Sarah Markowitz: * MindWell Psychology [http://www.mindwellcenter.com/] Learn more about I Hate You. What’s For Dinner? [https://www.podpage.com/hate-you-whats-for-dinner/] Learn more about Gillian Boudreau, PhD.: * Website [https://gillianboudreauphd.com/] * Instagram @clearconnectionpsychology [https://www.instagram.com/clearconnectionpsychology/?hl=en] Learn more about Rob Galligan, PhD.: * Instagram @dr.robert.galligan [https://www.instagram.com/dr.robert.galligan/] Resources: * EP 06 - Trickle Up!: Ron Williams On Purpose, Legacy, And Spreading Abundance [https://www.podpage.com/hate-you-whats-for-dinner/ep-06-trickle-up-ron-williams-on-purpose-legacy-and-spreading-abundance/] * Acceptance and commitment therapy [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acceptance_and_commitment_therapy] * Dialectical behavior therapy [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectical_behavior_therapy] * Marsha M. Linehan [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsha_M._Linehan] * Aaron Beck [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Beck] * Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents, Lindsay C. Gibson PsyD  [https://bookshop.org/p/books/adult-children-of-emotionally-immature-parents-how-to-heal-from-distant-rejecting-or-self-involved-parents-psy-d-lindsay-c-gibson-psyd/c76b830ed14fe568] * Dr. Ross Greene [https://drrossgreene.com/] * EP 09 - Fear, Resistance, And Flow: Paula Tursi On Letting Parenting Happen [https://www.podpage.com/hate-you-whats-for-dinner/ep-09-fear-resistance-and-flow-paula-tursi-on-letting-parenting-happen/] * EP 08 - Keeping It Authentic (And Surprising): Dr. Matt Morrison On Raising Kids And Therapists [https://www.podpage.com/hate-you-whats-for-dinner/ep-08-keeping-it-authentic-and-surprising-dr-matt-morrison-on-raising-kids-and-therapists/] * Dr. Russ Harris [https://www.actmindfully.com.au/]

Ep 10 - A Theory of Everything: The Primary Colors of Emotional Experience

It might sound silly, or even impossible, to have a theory of everything that might show up in our clinical work. And yet, when we’re sitting with people who are stuck or sitting with people that are suffering, so often it comes back to one of a few fundamental feelings, and all of the emotional gradations that come from them: safety, grief, and shame. Today, we’re digging into these emotional primary colors that are at the root of so much of what we see in our clinical practices, how they show up and shape family dynamics, and how our personal experiences shape the lens that we bring to our work and how we frame the world. Listen to the full episode to hear: * The patterns of behavior shaped by safety and belonging that Gillian recognized in her clients as parallels from her childhood * Why nurturing an environment that is consistently safe and loving is a lot harder than it sounds * How feelings of unsafety, grief, and shame show up for parents and kids * How shame functions as a product of survival fear and also a measure of if we deserve to be seen and loved * Why family and child counseling often needs to start with the parents and the family system  Learn more about I Hate You. What’s For Dinner? [https://www.podpage.com/hate-you-whats-for-dinner/] Learn more about Gillian Boudreau, PhD.: * Website [https://gillianboudreauphd.com/] * Instagram @clearconnectionpsychology [https://www.instagram.com/clearconnectionpsychology/?hl=en] Learn more about Rob Galligan, PhD.: * Instagram @dr.robert.galligan [https://www.instagram.com/dr.robert.galligan/] Resources: * Extreme - More Than Words [https://youtu.be/UrIiLvg58SY?si=L_NJ-vwe2IoXblSh] * Hurvich, Marvin. (2003). The Place of Annihilation Anxieties in Psychoanalytic Theory. Journal of the American Psychoanalytic Association. 51. 579-616. 10.1177/00030651030510020801.  [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/10656825_The_Place_of_Annihilation_Anxieties_in_Psychoanalytic_Theory] * Winnicott, Donald W., 'Fear of Breakdown', in Lesley Caldwell, and Helen Taylor Robinson (eds), The Collected Works of D. W. Winnicott: Volume 6, 1960-1963 (New York, 2016 [https://centerforobjectrelations.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/Winnicott-D.W.-1974.-Fear-of-breakdown.-Int.-J.-Psychoanalysis-1-103-107.pdf] * Melanie Klein [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanie_Klein] * Donald Winnicott [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Winnicott] * Ep 09 - Fear, Resistance, and Flow: Paula Tursi on Letting Parenting Happen [https://www.podpage.com/hate-you-whats-for-dinner/ep-09-fear-resistance-and-flow-paula-tursi-on-letting-parenting-happen/] * Trauma and Recovery The Aftermath of Violence–From Domestic Abuse to Political Terror, Judith L. Herman, MD [https://bookshop.org/p/books/trauma-and-recovery-the-aftermath-of-violence-from-domestic-abuse-to-political-terror-judith-lewis-herman-md/487522bb585aa794] * The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma, Bessel van der Kolk, MD [https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-body-keeps-the-score-brain-mind-and-body-in-the-healing-of-trauma-bessel-van-der-kolk-m-d/9e63236863805513] * Wilfred Bion [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilfred_Bion]

Ep 09 - Fear, Resistance, and Flow: Paula Tursi on Letting Parenting Happen

Fear has a way of obstructing our development as people, as parents, and partners and friends. Our anxieties make us grasp for control when what we really need to do is get out of the way and let things unfold. Easier said than done.  Today, we have Gillian’s dear friend and “soul mother,” Paula Tursi, with us. Paula is a New York-based yoga and meditation teacher, spiritual guide, writer and thinker who is at once deeply spiritual and highly pragmatic. In our conversation, we talk about the role of fear in the challenges we face, how she transformed her relationship to fear, and how getting out of our own way can change our lives and our parenting.  Listen to the full episode to hear: * Defining the roots of fear through the lens of survival and internal resistance * How the way we’re seen in childhood ripples through our lives, for good and ill * How the way we assign meaning to our visceral feelings impacts how we live and parent * Balancing parental guardrails and trusting kids to know themselves and what they need * How accepting where we are in the moment helps us move forward and live more fully * How to show kids they’re loved, safe, and seen even at the hardest moments Learn more about Paula Tursi: * Website [http://paulatursi.com/] * Instagram: @paula_tursi_life_design [https://www.instagram.com/paula_tursi_life_design] Learn more about I Hate You. What’s For Dinner? [https://www.podpage.com/hate-you-whats-for-dinner/] Connect with Gillian Boudreau, PhD.: * Website [https://gillianboudreauphd.com/] * Instagram @clearconnectionpsychology [https://www.instagram.com/clearconnectionpsychology/?hl=en] Connect with Rob Galligan, PhD.: * Instagram @dr.robert.galligan [https://www.instagram.com/dr.robert.galligan/]

Ep 08 - Keeping it Authentic (and Surprising): Dr. Matt Morrison on Raising Kids and Therapists

Establishing safety and trust is how we create connections and personal change, in therapy and in life. If we aren’t open to new experiences or perspectives, it’s a lot harder for any of us to get to all the good, gushy, connected stuff that helps us grow.  Today, we're with our friend and colleague, Dr. Matt Morrison, who is the training director of Long Island University's Psychological Services Center. Matt brings his experience supervising student psychologists and joins us to talk about his work on the therapeutic stance (aka how to be as a therapist). We get into how discipline and discovery in the therapeutic relationship counteract anxiety and fear, how that connects with stepping out of self-fulfilling prophecies and allowing for surprise in parent-child relationships, and the advice we’d give to student and early-career therapists. Matt also shares his experiences of growing up with a depressed parent, how being the center of a parent’s world creates pressure and conflict, and how honesty and hanging in there together can bring healing to the relationship. Listen to the full episode to hear: * The basics requirements of a therapeutic stance that promotes reflection, positive risk-taking, and change * Why therapy and parenting require a capacity for surprise, along with discipline  * How anxiety blocks coming from a stance of curiosity as therapists and parents * The challenge of balancing curiosity and honesty in relationships * How developing self-awareness of our internal competing interests builds agency to create change * How Matt’s parents modeled honesty and willingness to engage in conflict, even at the toughest times Learn more about Dr. Matt Morrison: * Connect on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthew-j-morrison-ph-d-ba93a926/] Learn more about I Hate You. What’s For Dinner? [https://www.podpage.com/hate-you-whats-for-dinner/] Connect with Gillian Boudreau, PhD.: * Website [https://gillianboudreauphd.com/] * Instagram @clearconnectionpsychology [https://www.instagram.com/clearconnectionpsychology/?hl=en] Connect with Rob Galligan, PhD.: * Instagram @dr.robert.galligan [https://www.instagram.com/dr.robert.galligan/]