S05E02 Relational Evaluation, Story, and the Responsibility to Be Changed with Dr. Chesleigh Keene

S05E06: Valuing What Matters: Indigenous Sovereignty and Health Economics Evaluation with Elliott Young

Bio Elliott Young [https://www.linkedin.com/in/elliott-young-a67a6a51/] is a Nehiyaw (Cree) scholar from Ermineskin Cree Nation with family ties to Louis Bull Tribe, Samson Cree Nation, and Tsuut’ina Nation. He lives in Edmonton with his wife and two children and is a PhD Candidate in the School of Public Health at the University of Alberta. His doctoral research, Indigenous Sovereignty through Health Economics Evaluation, examines how Nehiyaw worldviews can reshape how health systems define value and make decisions. Elliott has over a decade of experience in government, education, and the non-profit sector advancing Indigenous engagement, education, and evaluation. He is Vice Chair of the Maskwacis Education School Commission, an Associate Editor of the Roots and Relations section of the Canadian Journal of Program Evaluation, and sits on the Canadian Evaluation Society’s Working Group on Advancing Reconciliation and Indigenous Sovereignty in Evaluation. He is a SSHRC Doctoral Fellow and a 2020 Edify Magazine Top 40 Under 40 recipient.    Overview In this episode, Gladys sits down with Elliott Young, Nêhiyaw scholar, evaluator, and PhD candidate, to explore his journey into evaluation and the questions that continue to shape his work. Elliott reflects on his early experiences in Indigenous engagement and relationship-building that led him to ask deeper questions about impact, organizational change, and how institutions measure success. What began as a curiosity about evaluation has evolved into doctoral research examining the intersection of Indigenous sovereignty and health economics evaluation.    Elliott asks important questions and offers observations about how health systems make decisions about funding, value, and resource allocation, and the ways Indigenous peoples are often excluded from those processes. Elliott shares how his research is investigating what it would mean to create space for Indigenous worldviews, leadership, and decision-making within health economics evaluation. The conversation expands into broader reflections on Indigenous evaluation, the challenges of defining the field, and the importance of grounding evaluation in Indigenous governance, community priorities, and sovereignty rather than simply adapting existing frameworks.    Resources  Maskwacîs Education Schools Commission (MESC) [https://www.maskwacised.ca/] Roots & Relations [https://ces.journals.uvic.ca/index.php/cjpe/randr] in the Canadian Journal of Program Evaluation    Insights For Indigenous Evaluation Book (Open access and free online!) https://pressbooks.pub/indigenousinsightscollective/ [https://pressbooks.pub/indigenousinsightscollective/]  For more visit: https://gladysrowe.com/category/indigenousinsights/https://www.gladysrowe.com/podcast [https://www.gladysrowe.com/podcast] (Scroll to the bottom to subscribe to the newsletter!) If you are loving this podcast please leave a five star review on your favourite streaming service. If you would like to offer support please visit: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/InsightsPod [https://www.buymeacoffee.com/InsightsPod]

S05E05: Research as Ceremony, Academic Kinship, and the Relationships That Shape Knowledge with Dr. Shawn Wilson

Overview In this episode, Gladys sits down with Dr. Shawn Wilson, author of Research Is Ceremony, to reflect on the ongoing evolution of Indigenous research, evaluation, and relational ways of knowing. Moving between humor, storytelling, and deep reflection, Shawn revisits the origins of Research Is Ceremony and shares how writing to his children and future generations transformed not only the style of his work, but the accountability and intention behind it.   Together, they explore Indigenous research and evaluation as relational, living, and deeply contextual practices grounded in respect, reciprocity, and care for community. Shawn reflects on the importance of recognizing research and evaluation as interconnected processes rooted in pattern recognition, relationship-building, and collective wellbeing. The conversation moves through stories of Indigenous evaluation in community settings, mentorship and “academic kinship,” and the role of intergenerational relationships in sustaining Indigenous scholarship.   Throughout the episode, he reminds listeners that Indigenous research is not simply defined by the identity of the researcher, but by an intentional commitment to honoring relationships as the fundamental nature of the universe.   Dr Shawn Wilson (he/him) BSc (U Manitoba), MA (U Alaska), PhD (Monash) is from the Opaskwayak Cree Nation in northern Canada and lives on Syilx territory in Kelowna, British Columbia.  He is a Professor of Indigenous Studies and coordinates the Indigenous Knowledges Theme at the University of British Columbia. Shawn has worked with Indigenous people worldwide and co-leads a research project aiming to define rules and guidelines for respecting and safeguarding sacred teachings, such as Ceremonial and Star Knowledge. He has spent time living, teaching and researching across Canada, the US, Australia, and Norway, along with supervising research projects in Bangladesh, Indonesia and Papua New Guinea. Shawn is the author of Research is Ceremony, which has sold out multiple printings. He is on the Board of Directors with the Tapestry Institute and has joined the newly established advisory group at the Smithsonian National Museum of the American Indian. Shawn has presented at Goals House (Davos) as part of the World Economic Forum and the Mir Centre for Peace. He cites his 3 kids as his greatest achievement, pride and joy.   Resources  Shawn Wilson (2008) – Research Is Ceremony: Indigenous Research Methods [https://fernwoodpublishing.ca/book/research-is-ceremony-shawn-wilson] SAGE Program [https://indigenous.educ.ubc.ca/community/sage-supporting-aboriginal-graduate-enhancement/] – Supporting Aboriginal Graduate Enhancement. Indigenous graduate student peer and mentorship support initiative across UBC, Simon Fraser University, and UBC Okanagan Insights For Indigenous Evaluation Book (Open access and free online!) https://pressbooks.pub/indigenousinsightscollective/ [https://pressbooks.pub/indigenousinsightscollective/]  For more visit: https://gladysrowe.com/category/indigenousinsights/https://www.gladysrowe.com/podcast [https://www.gladysrowe.com/podcast] (Scroll to the bottom to subscribe to the newsletter!) If you are loving this podcast please leave a five star review on your favourite streaming service. If you would like to offer support please visit: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/InsightsPod [https://www.buymeacoffee.com/InsightsPod]

S05E04: Kaandossiwin and Decolonizing Journeys: Returning to How We Come to Know with Dr. Kathy Absolon

Bio Dr. Kathy Absolon [https://www.wlu.ca/academics/faculties/faculty-of-social-work/faculty-profiles/kathy-absolon/index.html]loves sharing stories about how we come to know. She is Anishinaabekwe from Flying Post First Nation Treaty 9. She has been involved in restoring Indigenous knowledge in education for 40 years now and for the last 19 years has been a professor in the Indigenous Field of Study MSW program in the Faculty of Social Work at Wilfrid Laurier University. Her search for How we Come to Know is shared in her books Kaandossiwin How We Come To Know [https://fernwoodpublishing.ca/book/kaandossiwin-2nd-ed] (Fernwood Publishing 2022, 2nd Ed. & 2011). Kathy’s work as a community helper has been informed by her close relationship to the land and her drive to restore Anishinaabe ways of knowing, being and doing. In this podcast she shares her most recent Indigenous and decolonial re-search project of Decolonizing Journeys.    Overview  In this deeply reflective episode, Gladys is joined by Dr. Kathy Absolon, Anishinaabe scholar, educator, and long-time community helper, to explore her lifelong journey of restoring Indigenous ways of knowing, being, and doing. Kathy shares her origin story rooted in the land where she learned in the bush, guided by ancestors, and grounded in relational ethics long before formal academic training. She reflects on the tensions of entering Western academia, the erasure of Indigenous knowledge systems, and the decision to resist and center Indigenous methodologies in her doctoral work. Kathy shares stories from the Decolonizing Journeys research project, which explores how individuals engage in the ongoing process of unpacking colonial beliefs, values, and practices. Engaging in methodology grounded in circle work, digital storytelling, and relational accountability, the project resists conventional analysis and honours each participant’s journey as unique and evolving. Make sure to watch out for the upcoming book and documentary based on this work. Throughout the episode, Kathy emphasizes that decolonizing is not about returning to a pre-contact past, but about making conscious choices both individually and collectively to realign with Indigenous knowledge systems, restore relationships, and act with intention. This conversation is an invitation to reflect on our own journeys, to stay with discomfort, and to approach research, evaluation, and life itself as an ongoing, relational process of coming to know.    Resources  Kandosowin: How We Come to Know [https://fernwoodpublishing.ca/book/kaandossiwin-2nd-ed] Digital Storytelling & Re•Vision Centre [https://revisioncentre.ca/] for Art and Social Justice (York University) Insights For Indigenous Evaluation Book (Open access and free online!) https://pressbooks.pub/indigenousinsightscollective/ [https://pressbooks.pub/indigenousinsightscollective/]  For more visit: https://gladysrowe.com/category/indigenousinsights/https://www.gladysrowe.com/podcast [https://www.gladysrowe.com/podcast] (Scroll to the bottom to subscribe to the newsletter!) If you are loving this podcast please leave a five star review on your favourite streaming service. If you would like to offer support please visit: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/InsightsPod [https://www.buymeacoffee.com/InsightsPod]

S05E03: Embodied Evaluation and Cultural Storytelling in Museum Spaces

Overview  In this episode, Gladys is joined by Rachel Chaffee, Abby Perez, and Sakira Hermawan to reflect on their collaborative evaluation of the Grounded by Our Roots [https://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/grounded-by-our-roots]exhibit in the Pacific Northwest Coast Hall at the American Museum of Natural History [https://www.amnh.org/].The conversation traces how their partnership began and explores the possibilities that emerge when museums invite Indigenous approaches to evaluation and storytelling into cultural halls. Together, they share how the team designed an evaluation process that moved beyond traditional survey-based methods to center embodied experience, creativity, and relationship. Through youth partnerships, focus groups, zine-making, storytelling, and time spent in the hall with Indigenous curatorial fellow James McGuire (Haida Nation), visitors were invited to reflect on their emotional, sensory, and relational experiences of the exhibit. Grounded in the Four Rs framework: reflexivity, respect, reciprocity, and relationality, the team reflects on how this approach transformed their understanding of evaluation, museum responsibility, and the role of visitors in meaning-making. The conversation also highlights the importance of vulnerability, time, and trust in collaborative evaluation processes, and the ways creative and relational methods can open new pathways for learning within institutions. Ultimately, this episode invites listeners to imagine how evaluation can become a space for relationship-building, embodied reflection, and new storytelling within cultural institutions.    Bios Rachel Chaffee [https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachel-chaffee-9527a267/] is an Assistant Director of Youth Research and Evaluation at the American Museum of Natural History. She completed a Ph.D. in Education with a focus on learning in out-of-school-time settings at the University of Rochester’s Warner School of Education. Her areas of research include participatory methodologies with youth and the role of belonging and flourishing in youth academic and career pathways.    Abby Perez [https://www.linkedin.com/in/albeliza/] is the Senior Manager of Youth and Workforce Development at the American Museum of Natural History. She designs museum programs centering community, science and communication. She is passionate about exploring museums as third spaces, community-driven research, and expanding pathways for youth to experience and exchange culture within New York City and beyond.   Sakira Hermawan [https://www.linkedin.com/in/sakira-hermawan/] is a student in her last year at Barnard College, studying Anthropology and minoring in Ethnicity and Race. She is from Indonesia but is currently based in New York City. Her current areas of interest include alternative pedagogies and knowledge production, grassroots organizing, and space-making.   Resources Grounded by Our Roots Exhibit [https://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/grounded-by-our-roots]. Pacific Northwest Coast Hall, American Museum of Natural History American Museum of Natural History Museum Education Experience Program (MEEP) [https://www.amnh.org/learn-teach/higher-education/meep] Evaluation as Relationship: Embedding the Four R’s of Storytelling into Museum Spaces [https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10598650.2025.2581442], Journal of Museum Education.  Insights For Indigenous Evaluation Book (Open access and free online!) https://pressbooks.pub/indigenousinsightscollective/ [https://pressbooks.pub/indigenousinsightscollective/]  For more visit: https://gladysrowe.com/category/indigenousinsights/https://www.gladysrowe.com/podcast [https://www.gladysrowe.com/podcast] (Scroll to the bottom to subscribe to the newsletter!) If you are loving this podcast please leave a five star review on your favourite streaming service. If you would like to offer support please visit: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/InsightsPod [https://www.buymeacoffee.com/InsightsPod]

S05E02 Relational Evaluation, Story, and the Responsibility to Be Changed with Dr. Chesleigh Keene

In this episode, Gladys sits down with Dr. Chesleigh Keene, Diné (Navajo) scholar and Vice President of Research and Evaluation at a Native-owned organization, to explore her journey into Indigenous evaluation. What began in relationship with her students supporting them in grounding their research in community evolved into a career shaped by cultural values, storytelling, and relational accountability. Dr. Keene reflects on teaching during the pandemic, navigating academia as an Indigenous scholar, and shifting from traditional academic models toward community-centered research and evaluation. Together, Gladys and Chesleigh explore what it means to let stories “touch us” as evaluators, to move beyond rigid templates, and to resist flattening the complexity of community experiences. They discuss the importance of slowing down, asking better questions, honoring seasonal rhythms, and tending to the emotional impact of the work on ourselves and our teams. This episode is an invitation to practice evaluation as relationship, to be changed by the work, and to carry that responsibility with care. Bio Dr. Chesleigh Keene [https://kauffmaninc.com/team/dr-chesleigh-keene/] (Diné/Navajo) serves as vice president for KAI’s research and evaluation team [https://kauffmaninc.com/service/research-evaluation/], bringing over a decade of experience advancing health and wellness in American Indian and Alaska Native (AI/AN) communities and improving health and wellness outcomes through culture-centric research, teaching, and service. Guided by Indigenous values, Dr. Keene integrates cultural and ceremonial elements into her work, focusing on cancer prevention, mental health, and education initiatives for AI/AN populations. She has collaborated on multidisciplinary teams, promoted cultural sensitivity in research, and taught graduate courses with a focus on Indigenous perspectives. Dr. Keene’s career spans impactful roles in academia, mental health treatment, and community health, including leading the first Missing and Murdered Indigenous Relatives Day of Honor at Northern Arizona University. She has worked with the Native American Research Centers for Health and the National Cancer Institute, championing diversity and inclusion in health research. Dr. Keene holds a doctor of philosophy degree in counseling psychology from the University of Denver; a master of art degree in community counseling from Loyola University; and a bachelor of art degree in psychology from Fort Lewis College.    Resources Insights For Indigenous Evaluation Book (Open access and free online!) https://pressbooks.pub/indigenousinsightscollective/ [https://pressbooks.pub/indigenousinsightscollective/]  For more visit: https://gladysrowe.com/category/indigenousinsights/https://www.gladysrowe.com/podcast [https://www.gladysrowe.com/podcast] (Scroll to the bottom to subscribe to the newsletter!) If you are loving this podcast please leave a five star review on your favourite streaming service. If you would like to offer support please visit: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/InsightsPod [https://www.buymeacoffee.com/InsightsPod]