#131 The Social Justice Lawyer Who Flunked Her Own Bias Test

#132 The Divorce Model That Saves Families Time, Money and Heartbreak"

What if watching your parents' destructive courtroom battle as a nine-year-old could become the catalyst for transforming how thousands of families end their marriages? For Elizabeth (Liz) Vaz [https://www.linkedin.com/in/vazlaw], that painful childhood memory didn't just shape her. It gave her an unshakeable professional mission decades later. At 55, she still remembers every detail of how ugly it got, and how no one was looking out for the kids. In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn [https://linktr.ee/lawyerswholearn], host David Schnurman [https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidschnurman/], CEO of Lawline, sits down with Liz Vaz, Collaborative divorce attorney and Lawline faculty member, to explore how she turned personal trauma into a pioneering legal practice and why collaborative divorce may be the most underutilized tool in family law today. Elizabeth's model keeps families out of the courtroom entirely. Each spouse retains their own Collaboratively trained attorney, but instead of battling before a judge, the couple works alongside a financial neutral and a mental health professional to craft their own agreement. The result is roughly a third of the cost of traditional litigation, with decisions made by the family, not a stranger in a robe who doesn't know them. She also dismantles the biggest myth surrounding Collaborative divorce: that it only works when couples already agree. Parties can be deeply at odds. The only requirement is a willingness to sit at the table. It's a reframe that opens the door far wider than most attorneys or clients realize. For Liz, this was never just a career choice. Sometimes your deepest wound points you straight toward your life's work.

#131 The Social Justice Lawyer Who Flunked Her Own Bias Test

Joni Watke [http://linkedin.com/in/joni-watke-ba467922] has spent decades championing LGBTQ+ rights. She's a social justice advocate to her core. So when she took an implicit bias test and discovered she had a measurable preference for white people, she was mortified — and spent days trying to convince herself the results were wrong. Then she realized that if she couldn't say it out loud, she was part of the problem. In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn [https://linktr.ee/lawyerswholearn], host David Schnurman [https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidschnurman/] talks with Joni Watke, Nebraska family law attorney and founder of Academy LGBTQ, about what it actually means to show up for marginalized clients — in the courtroom and in the classroom. Joni didn't set out to become an LGBTQ+ advocate. She fell into family law through her uncle's practice, and it wasn't until a DOMA ballot vote in 2000 — when she realized the opposition wasn't a fringe minority — that something shifted. That awakening led to 30 years representing same-sex couples and transgender clients through an increasingly hostile legal landscape. She walks through why a birth certificate alone doesn't protect parental rights, why hospital visitation documents belong in every same-sex estate plan, and why transgender clients in certain states now face jail time simply for using a public restroom — part of more than 500 anti-LGBTQ+ bills pending across the country. Her training work through Academy LGBTQ meets all of this with science rather than politics. But what ties her practice and her teaching together is a willingness to keep discovering what she doesn't know, and do something about it.

#130 The Hidden Math That Can Shrink Your Deal Payday by Millions

Most business owners sign an LOI for a flashy, headline purchase price and expect to receive that full amount at closing. What they actually receive is often much less and the difference was hiding in plain sight the entire time. James Greifzu [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamespgreifzu/] has spent his career helping ensure that gap never catches his clients off guard, and in this episode he pulls back the curtain on the soft skills, strategic timing, and financial math that separate successful dealmakers from disappointed ones. In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn [https://www.lawline.com/podcast/lawyers-who-learn/], host David Schnurman [https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidschnurman/]sits down with James Greifzu, a partner at Wiggin and Dana LLP who advises private equity groups, family offices, and closely held businesses on complex M&A transactions. A former New York big law attorney who lives by “early to bed and early to rise”, James brings a distinctive discipline to both his schedule and his deals. James introduces a framework every business owner should understand before signing anything: the difference between "generally wealthy" and "specifically wealthy" people and why the latter consistently leave money on the table by refusing to take advice. He unpacks the real math behind headline purchase prices and the actual net closing payment to the seller, why getting an M&A attorney involved before the LOI is signed may be your highest-ROI decision, and why being decent at Excel is the easiest way to stand out as a lawyer. James closes with two ideas that stick: what Brave New World taught him about building a great deal team, and why pushing your chair back and walking away from your desk might be the most productive move you make all day.

#129 The Lawyer Who Refused to Choose Between the Courtroom and the Studio

What happens when a lawyer stops hiding the best parts of himself and starts treating his own life with the same strategic intentionality he'd bring to representing Beyoncé? For Khasim Lockhart [https://fkks.com/attorneys/khasim-lockhart], that mindset shift didn't just change his outlook, it unlocked a career that most attorneys wouldn't believe was possible. In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn [https://linktr.ee/lawyerswholearn], host David Schnurman [https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidschnurman/], CEO of Lawline [https://www.lawline.com/podcast/lawyers-who-learn/], sits down with Khasim Lockhart, Entertainment &IP / Legal Ethics attorney at Frankfurt Kurnit Klein & Selz, Adjunct Professor at Fordham Law, and recording artist, all at once. Raised in Dominica before moving to Queens at age seven, Khasim built his identity around mentorship from an early age, launching a college prep program for high school athletes and eventually interning at Beyoncé's Parkwood Entertainment during law school. That experience gave him a framework he still uses today: manage your life the way you'd manage a global icon's career with intention, strategy, and no apologies. Khasim walks through the daily practices that keep him grounded across three demanding roles, morning self-assessments modeled after hedge fund meetings, weekly calendar planning that blocks studio time alongside court deadlines, and a teaching philosophy rooted in vulnerability and empathy. His course at Fordham, focused on peer mentoring and leadership, grew directly from a handshake after a first-year contracts class, a reminder that small, intentional moments compound into defining opportunities. What makes this conversation stand out is Khasim's honest reckoning with what it costs to suppress your creative identity in pursuit of professional credibility — and what becomes possible when you stop. For any lawyer feeling like they're leaving the best parts of themselves on the shelf, this episode is a blueprint for building something more whole.

#128 When Your Wardrobe Becomes Your Leadership Strategy

Before you speak, you are seen. Before your expertise is evaluated, your presence is assessed. At the highest levels of the legal profession, that assessment is not casual. It’s decisive. In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn [https://linktr.ee/lawyerswholearn], host David Schnurman [https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidschnurman/] sits down with Estelle Winsett [http://linkedin.com/in/estellewinsett], a former litigator and AmLaw 200 Director of Professional Development who now works at the intersection of style, strategy, and leadership for women in law. Estelle spent 20 years inside law firms. She saw a pattern no one was willing to name: the one thing women lawyers were quietly struggling with was something almost no one in the industry was addressing. How to dress with purpose and confidence in an increasingly informal, high-stakes profession. Brilliant women were doing exceptional work, yet being experienced in ways that diluted their authority. Not because of what they delivered. Because of how they were perceived delivering it. There is no formal dress code in law. But there is a standard. Unspoken, constantly evaluated, and quietly consequential. And as the profession has gotten more casual, the challenge has gotten harder, not easier. Business casual removed the old guardrails without replacing them, and the women navigating client-facing roles and firm leadership are the ones absorbing that uncertainty every morning. In a profession where women partners are already scrutinized more than their peers, visual strategy is not a nice-to-have. It is a professional discipline as critical as business development or client management. Estelle introduces her signature three-month transformation process, built on a precise methodology: body architecture, color strategy, and aesthetic clarity before any purchasing decisions are made. She unpacks her Rule of Three framework and delivers a truth most overlook: fit carries more authority than price. The conversation also draws on Gay Hendricks' The Big Leap, exploring the difference between a zone of excellence and a zone of genius, and the courage it takes to leave what is successful in pursuit of what is true. At the partner level, competence is assumed. What separates you is how that competence is experienced. And that experience begins the moment you are seen. For any woman attorney who has wondered whether how she shows up visually is helping or holding her back: this conversation will make the answer unmistakable.