Expert Stewart Dalley: The legal landscape of queer family building in Aotearoa

Expert Stewart Dalley: The legal landscape of queer family building in Aotearoa

In this expert episode, I sit down with Stewart Dalley, a lawyer at Dalley Sundar who specialises in queer family formation in Aotearoa New Zealand. Stewart has both lived and professional experience in this space: he has three daughters of his own through surrogacy, and his work has shaped the legal landscape for queer families in ways many of us have benefited from without even knowing it. Stewart and his partner were the first same-sex de facto couple in the country to obtain joint adoption orders, and he successfully argued the case that two women can both be named as mothers on their children's birth certificates. We talk about the history of how the law in Aotearoa has treated queer families and the pathways it has opened over time. We get into the detail of donor agreements: why you should absolutely have one if you're using a personal donor, but why you also need to be really intentional about what you include, because some aspects of those agreements can in fact be enforceable by a court. We discuss what's on the horizon with surrogacy law reform, the very real pitfalls of international surrogacy, and a question Stewart is seeing come up more and more in his practice: what happens to your frozen embryos if you and your partner separate? There is a lot in this conversation. And after we hung up, Stewart said something that stayed with me: that yes, there are still hurdles and we do need to keep advocating and agitating, but we are also lucky that a pathway exists at all. That we can be the legally recognised parents of our children and have those children in the first place. When Stewart's first daughter was born, he and his partner only had guardianship orders. He was not the legally recognised parent of his own child. That reality and the distance we've travelled from it is worth holding onto. I hope you come away from this episode feeling like legal advice in this space is more accessible than you might think. It can start with a simple phone call. If you want to get in touch with Stewart to discuss your own situation, you can find him at Dalley Sundar Law: www.dslaw.nz [https://www.dslaw.nz/familyformation/] As always, thanks for listening to Proud Conception. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow the show on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, and join the conversation on Instagram @ProudConceptionPod [https://www.instagram.com/proudconceptionpod]. Please consider sharing this podcast with a friend — it really does help us connect with people who might benefit from the stories we are sharing.  And if you have a family building story that you'd like to share, please get in touch! You can reach us via Instagram or by emailing proudconception@gmail.com [proudconception@gmail.com].

Amy and Rochelle: Two mums, known donor, IVF, public funding, co-feeding & advocating for the rainbow families coming up behind them

In this episode of Proud Conception, I'm joined by Amy and Rochelle, a lesbian couple who have been together since 2006 and married since 2008, long before marriage equality. They are mums to Josh, now 12, and Alex, now 8. We start in the present, with what it actually looks like to raise children in a queer whānau as their kids get older. Amy and Rochelle talk openly about how they present their family to the world, at school gates, on sports sidelines, and in the committees and institutions they've pushed to be more inclusive. They share how they've navigated questions from their boys about Pride parades, protesters, and why some people don't agree with families like theirs. And they reflect on what it means to model pride, advocacy and resilience for their children every single day. We then go back to the beginning. Their path to parenthood involved serious fertility challenges, and multiple rounds of IVF, some of them publicly funded. It also involves a special start: Amy and Rochelle were essentially gifted a sperm donor by another lesbian couple who had finished growing their own family. That donor, and that family, have been part of their whānau ever since. We talk about the deeply personal decision around who would carry their children and the grief that can accompany fertility making your hopes to carry impossible, and how both Amy and Rochelle cobreast-fed their boys, something they were navigating largely without a roadmap, twelve years ago. Amy and Rochelle are warm, funny, and quietly formidable. This is a rich conversation for anyone in the thick of building their queer whānau, and just as much for those further along the journey wondering what lies ahead. As always, thanks for listening to Proud Conception. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow the show on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, and join the conversation on Instagram @ProudConceptionPod [https://www.instagram.com/proudconceptionpod]. Please consider sharing this podcast with a friend — it really does help us connect with people who might benefit from the stories we are sharing. And if you have a family building story that you'd like to share, please get in touch! You can reach us via Instagram or by emailing proudconception@gmail.com.

Rose: Two mums, known donor, at-home insemination, mental health, coming off medication & raising teens in a queer whānau

In this episode of Proud Conception, I’m joined by Rose, a mum of two who is parenting well beyond the early years, with one child in their mid-teens and another entering adolescence. We go right back to the beginning of Rose and her wife’s journey to parenthood including the enormous and complex decision to come off mental health medication in order to try for a baby. Rose speaks openly about a period of hospitalisation, the destabilising impact that had on their family, and how they navigated that chapter together. We also talk about choosing a known donor and why openness mattered deeply to them from the outset. Rose reflects on how their relationship with their donor has naturally evolved over time, and how identity and whakapapa interweave in their whānau’s story. A significant part of this conversation focuses on parenting older children in a queer family. We discuss school environments, navigating questions from peers, supporting donor-conceived children as they form their identities, and what it actually looks like when the early intensity of conception and birth gives way to the long, steady work of raising young people. What I loved most about this kōrero is Rose’s grounded optimism. She offers reassurance that while every family navigates hardship, being queer or donor-conceived has not been a defining struggle in their story. Instead, she speaks about the gift of growing up in a queer whānau; the gift of learning to think expansively about family, difference, empathy and belonging. Rose and her whānau have chosen to use pseudonyms in this episode to protect their privacy. As always, thanks for listening to Proud Conception. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow the show on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, and join the conversation on Instagram @ProudConceptionPod [https://www.instagram.com/proudconceptionpod]. Please consider sharing this podcast with a friend, it really does help us connect with people who might benefit from the stories we are sharing. And if you have a family building story that you’d like to share, please get in touch! You can reach us via Instagram or by emailing proudconception@gmail.com [proudconception@gmail.com].

Kate: All things traditional surrogacy and being a proud, vocal support person

Today we are joined by Kate Zame and we’re getting into the nitty gritty of traditional surrogacy—not just what it is and how it differs from gestational surrogacy, but what it actually looks like when you’re living it. Kate and her wife Kelly have their own beautiful rainbow path to parenthood but this episode is about the couple’s most recent experience with Kelly being a surrogate for a queer couple. I chat with Kate about why traditional surrogacy felt like the right fit for this whanau and how they navigated all of the necessary conversations from matching up with the couple that would end up being their intended parents, talking about the biological connection, the whakapapa, that their families would share, and navigating the network of providers that helped bring this fruition, including incredible counselors, midwifes, and a boss and the interesting engagements with Oranga Tamariki. We get into the legal realities of traditional surrogacy and the emotional weight of the process. And because of my Kate’s unique position, as the wife of a surrogate, you’ll hear her reflect on what it means to support someone through surrogacy, whether as a partner or as an intended parent. So if there are any intended parents, or “IPs”, out there, I know you’ll get a lot out of this episode. Kate busts down myths and taboos around traditional surrogacy and shows exactly how arrangements like this have been happening for decades and decades because they can be ethical, respectful and safe ways for families to grow and flourish.  Resources: * Kate Zame on Instagram @katezameslt [https://www.instagram.com/p/DHR7QZIymqd/] come for the speech and language therapy and queer parenting, stay for the good vibes.  * Why Do You Parent Like That [https://open.spotify.com/episode/68k9jD8J7Eeq08r67Oqech?si=d43f818e6ead4d17] with Abbey Harrison and her conversation with Kate, covering more of her own family’s personal journey. As always, thanks for listening to Proud Conception. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow the show on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, and join the conversation on Instagram @ProudConceptionPod [https://www.instagram.com/proudconceptionpod]. Please consider sharing this podcast with a friend, it really does help us connect with people who might benefit from the stories we are sharing. And if you have a family building story that you’d like to share, please get in touch! You can reach us via Instagram or by emailing proudconception@gmail.com [proudconception@gmail.com].

Claire: Two mums, unknown clinic donor sperm, IUI, co-feeding, and navigating queer parenthood with conviction

In this episode of Proud Conception, I’m joined by Claire, someone who has become one of my closest friends and a huge part of the reason this podcast exists at all! Claire shares the story of how she and her wife Marissa moved in and out of the idea of parenthood over time: joining the fertility clinic waitlist early, travelling overseas, deciding not to have children when they reached the top of the list, and eventually coming back to the decision with clarity and commitment. It’s a journey that will feel familiar to many queer people, particularly those for whom parenthood hasn’t always felt like a given. We talk through their experience using clinic donor sperm and IUI, including the realities of long waitlists, donor selection, sperm allocation, billing frustrations, and the emotional weight of navigating a system that doesn’t always recognise queer couples as a single family unit. Claire also reflects thoughtfully on choosing a donor of a different ethnicity to herself, and the responsibility she and Marissa feel in supporting their children to understand and connect with that part of their identity over time. A significant part of this conversation focuses on co-feeding, including Marissa’s decision to induce lactation as the non-birthing parent, the medical and physical process involved, and what it meant for their partnership and early parenting experience. Claire speaks with real tenderness about the teamwork, sacrifice, and intention that shaped those early months, and the role affirming providers played in making co-feeding possible. Resources: * Dr. Heather Johnston of @cradlednz [https://www.instagram.com/cradlednz/?hl=en] * Empwr: Rainbow-inclusive antenatal classes which provide affirming and supportive pregnancy education. http://www.empwrbirth.comempwrbirth.com [http://empwrbirth.com]. As always, thanks for listening to Proud Conception. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow the show on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, and join the conversation on Instagram @ProudConceptionPod [https://www.instagram.com/proudconceptionpod]. Please consider sharing this podcast with a friend, it really does help us connect with people who might benefit from the stories we are sharing. And if you have a family building story that you’d like to share, please get in touch! You can reach us via Instagram or by emailing proudconception@gmail.com [proudconception@gmail.com].