PUNK Therapy | Psychedelic Underground Neural Kindness

Dr. T and Truth Fairy welcome guest Dr. Emily Tunks, Founder of Embody Being and Research Trial Psychedelics Assisted Psychotherapist, to the podcast to explore her work in MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for first responders and her passion for understanding potential somatic implications of psychedelic medicines. Dr. Tunks shares her experience and knowledge regarding therapist support and well-being, and discusses the need for integrating Indigenous wisdom into psychedelic research.    The conversation explores somatic and relational foundations in psychedelic therapy, and Dr. Tonks emphasizes the importance of somatic psychotherapy and relational depth in supporting clients through expanded states of consciousness. She advocates for an approach where nervous system regulation, co-regulation, and attachment repair are key components, especially when working with medicines like MDMA and psilocybin. Dr. Tunks questions the fixation on mystical experiences as therapeutic benchmarks. Instead, she proposes measuring success through the quality of the relational field, the client’s safety, and their capacity to experience nourishment and trust. Dr. T and Truth Fairy discuss the therapist's experience with Dr. Tunks, especially in the areas of burnout, well-being, and regulation. They highlight the need for therapist preparation, including their own embodiment practices, peer support, and supervised exposure to non-ordinary states. Dr. Tunks identifies something called the “trough of disillusionment,” which she explains as the time where hype around psychedelics comes face-to-face with the reality of systemic limitations and poor trial design. There is a need to mature the movement and deepen ethics, which Dr. T and Truth Fairy address with Dr. Tunks. “You know you have contact highs, as you said, if you've done a work… if you have some neurodiversion in there. If you've got some, hopefully, some intuition. We are going to feel stuff. We are going to have contact highs and we're going to have trauma lows, and being able to hold relationships, you know, in a way that will also meet regulatory standards. Let's not forget that when we're working above ground, we have to always be able to justify our behavior to sometimes people who have never had a therapy session in their life, like our medical boards, our registration boards. They are in an old paradigm.” - Dr. Emily Tunks   About Dr. Emily Tunks: Emily aims to support individuals understand their whole selves, body and mind, so that their health, relationships and life purpose may thrive, in spite of physical set-backs and ongoing challenges. Emily co-majored in Psychology and Psychophysiology at Swinburne University, and after obtaining first class honours, she was awarded a full scholarship to complete a Doctorate of Psychology (Health) at Deakin University. Her doctoral qualitative research investigated Australian specialists' attitudes and practices of end-of-life care and organ donation, which was published in a high impact, international SAGE scientific journal: Journal of Health Psychology (under previous name: E. Macvean).  Emily is a member of the Australian Association of Psychologists Inc. and is endorsed in Health Psychology (AHPRA). She maintains a commitment to excellence through researching best-practice techniques and her strong understanding of health psychology, clinical psychology, attachment, physiology, somatic (body) psychotherapy, psychodynamic psychotherapy, ecotherapy and psychoneuroimmunology. Both in session and outside, Emily draws on her modern practice of Eastern contemplation traditions and is a graduate of Hakomi Somatic Psychotherapy professional training. Emily is honoured to be a co-therapist in several local and international clinical research trials for Psychedelic-Assisted Psychotherapy (psilocybin with depression at Swinburne University and MDMA with PTSD at Monash University, collaborating with MAPS). In preparation for this humbling work, Emily continues to train extensively with several leading international PAP and trauma experts, local PAP integration and somatic psychotherapists. She deeply respects the healing potential of “non-ordinary” states of consciousness but most importantly, their safe, ethical, and practical integration. In addition to private clinical work, Emily has over a decade of multidisciplinary team experience in world-leading pain management and chronic illness hospital units, rehabilitation units, community health settings and university lecturing. Contact Dr. Emily Tunks: Website: EmbodyBeing.com.au [https://embodybeing.com.au/] LinkedIn: DrEmilyTunks [https://www.linkedin.com/in/dremilytunks/] __ Resources discussed in this episode: * Ram Dass [https://www.ramdass.org/] * “Becoming Somebody Before Becoming Nobody: Somatic and Relational Approaches to MDMA-assisted Psychotherapy” [https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dremilytunks_napsconference-psychedelicscience-communityandconnection-activity-7297129936299900928-VNXB?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop&rcm=ACoAAC6lpZMBpkgSubwFTlCrhyPT1oRFtGCbBtA] __ Contact Punk Therapy: Patreon: Patreon.com/PunkTherapy [http://patreon.com/PunkTherapy] Website: PunkTherapy.com [https://punktherapy.com/] Email: info@punktherapy.com [info@punktherapy.com]   Contact Truth Fairy:  Email: Truth@PunkTherapy.com [Truth@PunkTherapy.com]

Content Warning: This episode contains discussions of addiction, opioid use (including fentanyl), complex trauma, intergenerational trauma, medical neglect, and the death of a child. Dr. T and Truth Fairy welcome guest Liz Rezanson, a psychotherapist and social worker who works with the caregivers of children with disabilities, largely in her community of Vernon, BC. Liz believes in the healing power of connection and integrates mind-body attunement therapy, EMDR, EFT, hypnosis, and psychedelic-assisted therapy into her practice using a trauma-informed approach. Liz shares her deeply moving personal and professional journey through raising a daughter with catastrophic epilepsy and her oldest daughter Amy’s eventual struggle with opioid addiction, including fentanyl use, and repeated treatment attempts that led to a tragic end.    Liz’s story highlights the need for a more compassionate and effective approach to addiction recovery, one that acknowledges the role of attachment, emotional regulation, and support. She, Truth, and Dr. T discuss how psychedelic-assisted therapy, specifically with medicines like ibogaine and MDMA, can offer a powerful opportunity ot desensitize past trauma and support emotional integration. Liz emphasizes that healing doesn’t happen through medicine alone, but through the presence of a trained and emotionally regulated facilitator and through a focus on coregulation and relational attunement.  Dr. T and Truth Fairy agree with Liz in stating that her daughter Amy’s journey illustrates the high stakes and systemic failures in addiction treatment, particularly when treatment centres are ill-equipped to meet clients with compassion and flexibility. Liz emphasizes that healing developmental trauma requires practitioners to develop their own capacity for emotional presence through somatic awareness and self-regulation. Her story is a powerful call to reshape psychedelic integration therapy and addiction treatment by centring safety, right-brain healing, and the profound importance of human connection. “Just that need to be so in tune or attuned to our clients, and especially in the psychedelic field. Yeah. You're doing sometimes long sits, and you have to be able to stay with it and be able to support, and I always say I'm not… I hate the term healer. I think I'm not a healer. I'm literally the guide in this process, whether it be we use something like eMDR or somatic or IFS, whatever, psychedelic, whatever we're using. I'm just the guide in the process. I'm just the person who shows you how to reconnect with yourself, right?” - Liz Rezanson   About Liz Rezanson, Psychotherapist, BCYC, MACP, CCC, RSW: Liz has called Vernon home for the past 30 years, and for over two decades, she has had the privilege of working with individuals and families in that community. Her background includes more than 20 years supporting families, and 11 years working closely with children with diverse abilities and their caregivers. At the heart of her work is a belief in the healing power of connection—both with ourselves and with those closest to us. Liz works alongside my clients with compassion, curiosity, and respect, helping them move toward greater authenticity, emotional safety, and meaningful change. True connection takes courage, vulnerability, and the right kind of support. She believes it’s her role to help create the space where that becomes possible. Liz offers individual, couples, and group therapy in a safe and confidential setting. She draws on a range of approaches, with specialized training in: Mind-Body Attunement Therapy®, EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing), Emotion Focused Therapy (EFT) for Couples, Psychedelic Psychotherapy (studied over the past five years), Clinical Hypnosis She takes an attachment-based, trauma-informed approach to therapy and works with clients navigating trauma, anxiety, depression, PTSD, grief, and chronic pain. In addition to psychotherapy, Liz offers parent coaching, health and wellness counselling, support for chronic pain management, and guided processing of trauma, loss, and life transitions.   In memory of  Amy Elizabeth Rezanson Dec 28,1997 to Nov 4, 2022   Contact Liz Rezanson: LinkedIn: liz-rezanson-1b26ab67 [https://www.linkedin.com/in/liz-rezanson-1b26ab67/] Website: MindBodyCounselling.org [https://mindbodycounselling.org/] __ Resources discussed in this episode: * Allan Schore [https://www.allanschore.com/] * “Affect Regulation and the Origin of the Self” [https://www.amazon.com/Affect-Regulation-Origin-Self-Neurobiology/dp/0805834591] by Allan N. Shore * Darcia Narvaez, PhD: EvolvedNest.org [https://evolvednest.org/] * Internal Family Systems (IFS) and Dr. Richard Schwartz [https://ifs-institute.com/] __ Contact Punk Therapy: Patreon: Patreon.com/PunkTherapy [http://patreon.com/PunkTherapy] Website: PunkTherapy.com [https://punktherapy.com/] Email: info@punktherapy.com [info@punktherapy.com]   Contact Truth Fairy:  Email: Truth@PunkTherapy.com [Truth@PunkTherapy.com]

While Truth Fairy is away, Dr. T hosts this episode solo, welcoming Scott Hill, author of “Confrontation with the Unconscious: Jungian Depth Psychology and Psychedelic Experience”, who completed his PhD with a dissertation titled ‘Building a Jungian Framework for Understanding Psychedelic Induced Psychotic States’ at the California Institute of Integral Studies. Dr. Hill shares his early transformative encounters with LSD in 1967, which, though initially ecstatic, devolved into psychologically traumatic events. These experiences led him on a lifelong journey of self-exploration, academic inquiry, and healing.   Scott shares his journey very openly with Dr. T and they discuss how Scott’s return to academia in Cailfornia, studying under Stan Grof and Ralph Metzner, deepened his understanding of his own experiences. They examine how Jung’s concepts of the collective unconscious and archetypes reflect in intense psychedelic states. Scott details how key reading, Holotropic Breathwork, a medicine circle. and an MDMA-assisted therapy session at Burning Man, and MDMA-assisted therapy all helped heal his ongoing flashbacks.   Dr. T and Scott Hill share a deep and revelatory conversation, at the end of which Scott expresses gratitude for the path he was forced onto in spite of how painfully it began. He describes writing and academic research as transformative tools and identifies scholarship as a spiritual practice in its own right. “Confrontation with the Unconscious: Jungian Depth Psychology and Psychedelic Experience”, Dr. Hill’s book, is now foundational in psychedelic psychotherapy circles, and his insights are key to understanding much about psychedelic psychology.  “As I read about the myths of Gilgamesh, Inanna,, Job and Christ, I was struck by the resonance between passages in those myths and my difficult psychedelic experiences. Given the Jungian view that myths are expressions of the archetypal unconscious, and given the resonance I experienced reading those myths, I started to wonder whether my terrifying trips, and perhaps those of others, might be understood, in Jung's words, as experiences of an archetypal nature.” - Scott Hill   About Scott Hill: Scott J. Hill, Ph.D., lives in Sweden, where he conducts scholarly research on the intersection between psychedelic studies and Jungian psychology. He holds degrees in psychology from the University of Minnesota and in philosophy and religion from the California Institute of Integral Studies. Book: “Confrontation with the Unconscious: Jungian Depth Psychology and Psychedelic Experience” [https://health.aeonbooks.co.uk/product/confrontation-with-the-unconscious/94523] by Scott J. Hill __ Resources discussed in this episode: * “Confrontation with the Unconscious: Jungian Depth Psychology and Psychedelic Experience” [https://health.aeonbooks.co.uk/product/confrontation-with-the-unconscious/94523] by Scott J. Hill * “Psychedelics and Psychotherapy: The Healing Potential of Expanded States” [https://www.amazon.com/Psychedelics-Psychotherapy-Healing-Potential-Expanded/dp/B09NCJMB7P/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1H8DJB0V7LSJA&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.MM_Bq4hJBuY4NokTb9JHgA.YaVxr5zY0AKttHWPO4kU6BCd5TqC6lsY66NCgdS0w6Y&dib_tag=se&keywords=Psychedelics+and+Psychotherapy+The+Healing+Potential+of+Expanded+States&qid=1745411490&sprefix=psychedelics+and+psychotherapy+the+healing+potential+of+expanded+states%2Caps%2C186&sr=8-1] by Tim Read, Maria Papaspyrou, and others * “Ralph Metzner, Explorer of Consciousness: The Life and Legacy of a Psychedelic Pioneer” [https://www.amazon.com/Ralph-Metzner-Explorer-Consciousness-Psychedelic/dp/B0CSBVQ5CF/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1Z0TIXVI1FG12&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.hR3fjqx2aD2eF7gqUMGcTQ.dteSsZh3CKjZwzYcYe72tIqtYTPUwxhK1dLDHcwYiKc&dib_tag=se&keywords=Ralph+Metzner%2C+Explorer+of+Consciousness+The+Life+and+Legacy+of+a+Psychedelic+Pioneer&qid=1745411542&sprefix=ralph+metzner%2C+explorer+of+consciousness+the+life+and+legacy+of+a+psychedelic+pioneer%2Caps%2C139&sr=8-1] by Cathy Coleman, PhD (Editor) * “Breaking Convention: Psychedelic Pharmacology for the 21st Century” [https://www.amazon.com/Breaking-Convention-Psychedelic-Pharmacology-Attractor/dp/1907222553/ref=sr_1_1?crid=377YGFDD6JUYG&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.x554n2fUt0Afyy5GZVEd3g.0W8Y1KX-apGFUrcvfUf-eSSLSengnLikkz8iKntXoYU&dib_tag=se&keywords=Breaking+Convention%3A+Psychedelic+Pharmacology+for+the+21st+Century&qid=1745411643&sprefix=breaking+convention+psychedelic+pharmacology+for+the+21st+century%2Caps%2C144&sr=8-1] by Ben Sessa (Editor) * “Drugs and the Mind” [https://www.amazon.com/Drugs-mind-Robert-S- Ropp/dp/B0007GX2E8/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8] by Robert S De Ropp * Aldous Huxley’s Books [https://www.amazon.com/s?k=The+Doors+of+Perception+%26+Heaven+and+Hell&i=stripbook s-intl- ship&crid=2GFKNDAHVT0XK&sprefix=the+doors+of+perception+%26+heaven+and+hell+% 2Cstripbooks-intl-ship%2C136&ref=nb_sb_noss] * J. Krishnamurti Books [https://jkrishnamurti.org] * “Letters from the Earth” [https://www.amazon.com/Letters-Earth-Mark-Twain/dp/9358585277/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&dib_tag=se&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.4oD5W4fwxCBUvhN3_6277oyNf8624n9BP-gcOoo-TntiEFi4EXMV_fA0FpYtHWTBno--5W8dASOUrbv0JMD9t-3ugLe9AFAwvs_9wA41tJ6QsAbH4jXfsaAOjrnsO37rTnBqFQCl_oeKH2_VOMumacwn2TOaFeZwza_3uy7F-KxIx3mXzi49hC9I9l7eAYMAomW9NhLb4l8HcRCjJwSXp9hbnhW2RlAiX3bsfAK9tCk.f6sC47QRZk6Uju60iLYez9gtEsj1YQ6aQt6wIpZH5Xs&qid=1745411839&sr=8-1] by Mark Twain * “Man and His Symbols” [https://www.amazon.com/Man-His-Symbols-Carl-Jung/dp/0593499999/ref=sr_1_1?crid=10EKYAKX5X9DV&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.JvxZsBYWIAaQnWi89Pa0Bgd_aRcCw9KzLZ_bStcwpsL5nd-Xd_AIO_8hnh0I2pgaIdLQ0navv96jX477IzIPPbL709UbpTKr93XdAA4j1bBQXg3Gyl1sW009xx5yznd_jn9kJKSN3_vE866oYuIFBHlQQOMF2TNtQxP5C12TMEM1cmnF_bLOWln9terOwmRV8Py5ev9L6cIZ-jSgICt3pfsOWyrGJl76IsaStyy2p9c.9HhzZ_sXALwfw11tyJPoEctNPRXbYaJe5QkD3_S6Hjk&dib_tag=se&keywords=jung+man+and+his+symbols&qid=1745411882&sprefix=jung+man+and+his+symbol%2Caps%2C166&sr=8-1] by Carl G. Jung * “Trials of the Visionary Mind” [https://www.amazon.com/Trials-Visionary-Transpersonal-Humanistic-Psychology/dp/0791439887/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2LTUESTZZ06YF&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9._zgPVKIFOprew85CzAEkHKJCjdJY_RnMogkRjFrRNLa2XVk4-AgBOnqgrvQGokUmiz990Eds0fZVP0V1IqZtMtJ-mQCl1Z-Hsf-V0BYkuMI.kU-AqNeNII_WNtxPgXlpgy9CjqAREuvLcIIRutdfX_g&dib_tag=se&keywords=trials+of+the+visionary+mind&qid=1745411957&sprefix=trials+of+the+visionary+mind%2Caps%2C181&sr=8-1] by John Weir Perry * Holotropic Breathwork [https://www.holotropic.com/holotropic-breathwork/about-holotropic-breathwork/] Scott’s chapter, Archetypes and the Collective Unconscious: Jungian Insights Into Psychedelic Experience, in “Breaking Convention: Psychedelic Pharmacology” is available on his  Academia.edu page (https://ciis.academia.edu/ScottHill) as is a preview copy of his book that includes the TOC, Preface, Introductory chapter, and Conclusion. There is also a book review of Scott’s book by Jungian Analyst Stephen A. Martin. __ Contact Punk Therapy: Patreon: Patreon.com/PunkTherapy [http://patreon.com/PunkTherapy] Website: PunkTherapy.com [https://punktherapy.com/] Email: info@punktherapy.com [info@punktherapy.com]   Contact Truth Fairy:  Email: Truth@PunkTherapy.com [Truth@PunkTherapy.com]

Dr. T and Truth Fairy welcome Greg Wrenn, a former Alabama state representative and long-time health policy advocate, who shares insights into how he became interested in the therapeutic use of psychedelics through personal research and professional exposure. Greg recently wrote a book called “Mothership” about coral reef research, ecological crisis, and his personal PTSD healing journey with ayahuasca. He discusses portions of the book and his experiences with Truth and Dr. T.   Greg explores the growing interest in psychedelic-assisted therapy, particularly its potential to help individuals who struggle with mental health issues such as depression, anxiety, and PTSD. He addresses the shift from viewing psychedelics as taboo to recognizing their potential under controlled, clinical settings. His personal stories, alongside those shared by Truth, highlight the positive impact psychedelic therapy can have and how his passion for the issue has been fueled.  Truth Fairy, Dr. T, and Greg share concerns about the challenges of implementing beneficial psychedelic healing sessions, and they celebrate Greg’s integration of tribal and liberating dance into the ayahuasca ceremony. They talk about the importance of regulation, ethical safeguards, and integration of Indigenous practices, and caution against the risks of commercialization. The episode is both vulnerable and informative, painting a hopeful picture of potential healing even in the face of difficult times. “You know, I'm no psychedelic evangelist. I don't think everyone should drink ayahuasca or work with psychedelics. I know I should, I know I need to. And so this is really important for my mission, which is to, I guess, spread a message of love and spread a message of the possibility of planetary healing, because planetary healing happens, at least with humanity, one brain at a time.” - Greg Wrenn __ About Greg Wrenn: A former Stegner Fellow and Jones Lecturer at Stanford University, GREG WRENN is the author of the ayahuasca eco-memoir Mothership: A Memoir of Wonder and Crisis, an evidence-based account of his turning to coral reefs and psychedelic plants to heal from childhood trauma, and Centaur (U of Wisconsin Press 2013), which National Book Award-winning poet Terrance Hayes awarded the Brittingham Prize.  Greg's work has appeared or is forthcoming in HuffPost, The New Republic, Al Jazeera, The Rumpus, LitHub, Writer's Digest, Kenyon Review, New England Review, The Iowa Review, and elsewhere. He has received awards and fellowships from the James Merrill House, the Bread Loaf Writers’ Conference, the Vermont Studio Center, the Poetry Society of America, the Hermitage Artist Retreat, the Virginia Center for the Creative Arts, and the Spiro Arts Center. On his Mothership book tour, he spoke to audiences around the world, including at Yale School of Medicine, the University of Utah School of Medicine, Vancouver Island University, and the University of Virginia School of Nursing. Greg has also been on numerous podcasts, including Levi Chambers's PRIDE, and was recently interviewed by Emmy Award-winning journalist Elizabeth Vargas on NewsNation and by Jane Garvey on Times Radio (UK).  As an associate English professor at James Madison University, he teaches creative nonfiction, poetry, and environmental literature and directs the JMU Creative Writing Minor. He also teaches in the Memoir Certificate Program at Stanford Continuing Studies. He was educated at Harvard University and Washington University in St. Louis. Greg is currently at work on a follow-up book to Mothership and sending out Homesick, his second poetry collection. A student of ayahuasca since 2019, he is a trained yoga teacher and a PADI Advanced Open Water diver, having explored coral reefs around the world for over 25 years. He and his husband divide their time between the mountains of Virginia and Atlantic Beach, Florida. Website: GregWrenn.com [https://www.gregwrenn.com/] Book: “Mothership: A Memoir of Wonder and Crisis” [https://www.amazon.com/Mothership-Memoir-Wonder-Greg-Wrenn/dp/B0CGXWW1JL/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0] by Greg Wrenn __ Contact Punk Therapy: Patreon: Patreon.com/PunkTherapy [http://patreon.com/PunkTherapy] Website: PunkTherapy.com [https://punktherapy.com/] Email: info@punktherapy.com [info@punktherapy.com]   Contact Truth Fairy:  Email: Truth@PunkTherapy.com [Truth@PunkTherapy.com]

In this episode, Dr. T and Truth Fairy have an in-depth conversation about current global and political concerns, particularly focusing on the drastic actions taken by Donald Trump in his recent return to power. Truth Fairy details how his executive orders have dismantled key institutions, targeted marginalized communities, and damaged international relations. They talk frankly about the trauma of living in this time and the role of psychedelics, exploring powerful examples of reclaiming the traditional powers of medicine for healing. Truth Fairy explores how Western psychedelic culture has often become self-focused, neglecting to address larger societal issues. Dr. T reflects on how ancient examples of dominance and control still shape the world, and they discuss the need to reclaim group wisdom, relational healing, and embodied awareness in psychedelic work. Part of that work must include a balance to both hemispheres of the brain—logic and intuition—to effectively deal with the challenges of the modern world.   Truth Fairy shares a powerful case study of a client who had endured extreme childhood trauma and how psychedelics, when used with intentional intervention, helped him break free from dissociative loops. She and Dr. T discuss the overlooked trauma of men, the need for deeper empathy in therapy, and the responsibility of practitioners to guide clients with wisdom. This episode is a raw and powerful look into the current news, where Truth Fairy and Dr. T urge us to become critically aware of media narratives and integrate psychedelic healing within the social context.  “It's not Trump. He's just a figurehead, a representation or a mirror [held] up to us of our own situation as a culture. You know, I mean, I can't help but wonder if Trump was stood down for some reason, would another leader just like him emerge? Because it's not actually him that is the sickness. It's the culture that has decided to elect a leader of that nature that's reflective of trauma, that's not resolved for so many people.” - Dr. T __ Contact Punk Therapy: * Patreon: Patreon.com/PunkTherapy [http://patreon.com/PunkTherapy] * Website: PunkTherapy.com [https://punktherapy.com/] * Email: info@punktherapy.com [info@punktherapy.com]   Contact Truth Fairy:  * Email: Truth@PunkTherapy.com [Truth@PunkTherapy.com]