The Gap Between Ideal and Reality with Jordan Ritter Conn

Raising Men Under Hard Circumstances with Lisa Johnson

In this episode of Raising Men, Shawn sits down with Lisa Johnson, a high-conflict divorce strategist, certified domestic violence advocate, and co-founder of Been There, Got Out. After enduring a decade-long legal battle with her ex-husband—including more than 100 court appearances—Lisa transformed her painful experience into a mission to help parents navigate high-conflict divorces and protect their children from emotional harm. She shares the lessons she learned about parental alienation, emotional resilience, and how parents can stay grounded and supportive for their children even when a former partner becomes an adversary.  Key Takeaways 1. Children in high-conflict divorces often express anger or aggression as a fear response and a test of whether their remaining parent will stay emotionally present.  2. Defending yourself when a child repeats accusations from the other parent can deepen the conflict, while validating their feelings helps preserve trust.  3. Protecting children sometimes means shielding them from the legal and emotional chaos while seeking support and therapy for yourself.  4. Consistent connection rituals—even just ten minutes of focused attention—can strengthen the parent-child bond and provide emotional security.  5. A strong, judgment-free relationship with your child is the best long-term protection against alienation and manipulation.  Top Quotes from Lisa Johnson “One of the worst things you can do when your child repeats accusations from your ex is try to correct the record immediately.”  “Kids usually love both parents, so when they hear two completely different versions of the truth, it creates cognitive dissonance.”  “The most important thing is building a relationship with your child where they feel they can tell you anything without being judged.”  Chapter Markers 00:00 — When Kids Parrot the Other Parent 00:35 — Parenting Through a High-Conflict Divorce 01:14 — Meet Lisa Johnson 01:54 — Discovering a Double Life 03:07 — Staying to Protect the “Intact Family” 04:10 — “This Will Be a Really Bad Divorce” 05:29 — Representing Herself in Court 06:20 — When Divorce Never Really Ends 07:01 — A Father Walks Away 08:20 — The Fear of Father Absence 08:55 — Scrambling for Support 09:45 — Finding the Right Therapist for Her Son 11:02 — Aggression as a Cry for Connection 12:13 — Why Kids Test if You’ll Stay 12:51 — Aggression as Fear Response 13:45 — When the Fighting Finally Stopped 14:28 — The College Battle 15:35 — Financial Abuse Through the Courts 16:47 — Why High-Conflict Cases Defy Logic 18:15 — Why People Don’t Believe These Stories 19:06 — Turning Trauma Into Advocacy 19:50 — What She Would Do Differently 21:54 — Why Coaching Matters in High-Conflict Cases 22:12 — Avoiding Barstool Legal Advice 24:05 — How Trauma Shows Up Differently in Sons 25:23 — Shielding Kids From the Conflict 26:41 — “She Kept It Together” 27:30 — The Power of Male Role Models 28:18 — A Grandfather Steps In 28:47 — Debate as a Path to Belonging 30:45 — When Coaches Become Father Figures 31:00 — When an Ex Turns Kids Against You 33:02 — How Parental Alienation Begins 34:26 — Why Defending Yourself Backfires 36:31 — Validating Feelings Before Facts 38:07 — When Humor Becomes Avoidance 39:00 — Planning Responses Before the Storm 40:12 — Parenting From the Calm Brain 42:28 — The 10-Minute Rule 44:43 — Why Rituals Matter 46:29 — Making Time Count as Kids Grow 47:06 — Building a Relationship That Lasts 48:59 — One Principle for Raising Strong Men 50:01 — Closing Reflections Books, Links, and References Mentioned When Your Ex Turns Your Kids Against You – Lisa Johnson https://beentheregotout.com/ [https://beentheregotout.com/] Been There, Got Out – Support and strategy for high-conflict divorces https://beentheregotout.com/ [https://beentheregotout.com/] Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder – Bill Eddy https://www.highconflictinstitute.com/bookstores/splitting [https://www.highconflictinstitute.com/bookstores/splitting] High Conflict Institute – Founded by Bill Eddy https://www.highconflictinstitute.com/ [https://www.highconflictinstitute.com/] Frameworks Mentioned The 10-Minute Rule (Child Psychiatrist Strategy) A simple method to strengthen connection with your child: 1. Spend 10 minutes of undivided attention with your child. 2. Let the child lead the activity. 3. Show curiosity about their interests. 4. Give them both control and attention. 5. Repeat consistently to build trust and emotional security.

Q&A: Raising a Gentleman with a Backbone

In this special mailbag edition, Shaun dives deep into two core questions that surface at the very beginning of the fatherhood journey: how to establish foundational non-negotiables for raising a son of character, and how to navigate the intense emotional mirroring of toddlers. Relying on the collective wisdom of past guests—such as Sean Harvey, Emily Huston, Ryan North, and Paul Kix—Shaun maps out what it truly means to raise a "gentleman with a backbone." He unpacks why character must always trump performance and how true kindness serves as an expression of raw strength. Moving into the "mirror principle," Shaun breaks down the neurobiology of toddler meltdowns using the "Conan the Barbarian" vs. "Sherlock Holmes" brain framework. Key Takeaways * Excellence Through Continuous Failure: Raising a son with a backbone requires modeling that true excellence is born from effort and the willingness to get back up after failing, rather than maintaining a rigid veneer of perfection. * Identity Over Performance: In a culture obsessed with statistics and social media validation, fathers must anchor their son's identity in core character—what he does when no one is watching—rather than tracking external achievements. * Kindness is Tensile Strength: True masculinity blends raw strength with empathy and kindness. Like a bridge built with tensile strength to flex without breaking under pressure, a strong man possesses the backbone to apologize and make things right. * The Primal Mirror Principle: Children, especially toddlers, absorb emotional rhythms and environmental stress through mirror learning as a core survival mechanism. If a parent is vibrating with stress, the child interprets the environment as inherently unsafe. * De-escalating the Conan Brain: A toddler's emotional meltdown is governed entirely by the amygdala (the "Conan the Barbarian" brain). Meeting a meltdown with parental anger only introduces a second barbarian to the room, whereas staying in the prefrontal cortex ("Sherlock Holmes" brain) allows for calm, curious problem-solving. 00:00 – Introduction: Welcome to the Mailbag Edition  01:44 – Defining Healthy Modern Masculinity: A Gentleman with a Backbone  02:29 – Non-Negotiables: Modeling Excellence Through Failure  04:55 – Shifting the Focus: Character Over Performance & Kindness as Strength  07:21 – The Mirror Principle: Decoding Your Toddler's Emotional Rhythms  09:46 – Moving from Judgment to Curiosity & Final Parent Reflections  Books mentioned * Raising an Emotionally Intelligent Child by John Gottman  * Emotional Intelligence by Daniel Goleman  * Behave: The Biology of Humans at Our Best and Worst by Robert Sapolsky  Frameworks & Concepts * The Mirror Principle / Mirror Learning: The developmental process by which children subconsciously absorb behaviors, moods, and emotional rhythms via their parents' nervous systems. * Two-Brain Theory: A psychological metaphor contrasting the Conan the Barbarian brain (the survival-driven amygdala) with the Sherlock Holmes brain (the logical, regulating prefrontal cortex). * Tensile Strength Metaphor: The structural engineering concept used to describe a man's capacity to flex with life's pressures and express vulnerability without shattering. * Rocks in a Rock Polisher: A closing metaphor illustrating how community members and parents intentionally refine, smooth out, and polish one another through shared growth. Episodes mentioned: Sean Harvey: https://raising.men/episodes/no-perfect-dads-allowed-the-truth-about-love-and-showing-up-with-sean-harvey Emily Huston: https://raising.men/episodes/feminism-men-and-the-future-of-raising-strong-boys-with-emily-huston Dr. Gloria Vanderhorst: https://raising.men/episodes/fathers-sons-and-the-lost-language-of-emotion-with-dr-gloria-vanderhorst Paul Kix: https://raising.men/episodes/how-storytelling-helps-us-raise-men-with-paul-kix/ Ryan North: https://raising.men/episodes/what-trauma-informed-parenting-looks-like-at-home-with-ryan-north

The Gap Between Ideal and Reality with Jordan Ritter Conn

This episode of Raising Men features an intimate deep dive with Jordan Ritter Conn, a senior staff writer at The Ringer and author of the groundbreaking 2026 book, American Men. After spending five years embedded in the lives of four vastly different men, Jordan discusses the "missing roadmap" of modern masculinity and the internal struggle men face when they fail to meet inherited ideals. 1. Key Topics Covered * The "Masculinity Crisis" vs. The Reality Gap: Discussion on how men don’t necessarily lack a "roadmap," but rather struggle with the internal "gap" between the cultural ideal of a man and their actual lived experience. * The Provider/Protector Obsession: A look at the "Joseph" vignette—how a simple car engine rattle can spiral into a man’s feeling of total inadequacy as a protector. This aligns with data showing 86% of U.S. men believe being a "provider" is a defining trait of manhood. * The Myth of Male Emotional Silence: Jordan rejects the idea that men are unwilling or unable to talk about feelings; instead, he argues they lack "safe spaces" free from judgment or social repercussions. * The "Weight" of Raising Sons: Both Shawn and Jordan share the immediate "weight" felt at the birth of their sons—a unique responsibility to prepare them for a world where traditional rites of passage have vanished. * The Performance of Success: Exploring "Gideon," the star athlete and West Point graduate who felt like a "trophy," illustrating how even those who "typify the ideal" still face profound internal insecurities. The difficulty arises when they're confronted with the ways that they don't feel like they're living up to the ideal that they're holding in their own heads. We need to be given like kind of a permission structure for opening up because we do kind of inherit these messages that showing any kind of vulnerability... is showing weakness. Ultimately I think what kind of defines our relationship to masculinity is how we kind of navigate that failure [to live up to the standard]. 00:00 - Hidden Knowledge: Seeing Childhood Through Your Son 01:12 - Meet Jordan Ritter Conn: Author of "American Men"  02:19 - Why Five Years? The Motivation Behind Immersive Journalism 05:54 - The Myth of Silence: Why Men Actually Crave Deep Connection 09:10 - Joseph’s Story: The Engine Rattle and the Protector Complex 14:12 - The Masculinity Gap: Navigating the Failure to Meet the Ideal 16:35 - The Weight of Fatherhood: Jordan’s Personal Shift 20:43 - The Missing Roadmap: Rebuilding Modern Rites of Passage 24:42 - Adolescent Power: The "Semi-Truck vs. Miata" Experience 30:49 - Legacy & Upbringing: How Fathers Shaped the Men’s Struggles 41:25 - The Radical Act of Being Known: Sharing the Stories Back 44:05 - The Final Principle: Empathy, Curiosity, and the Gift of Being Seen Books, Tools, and Websites Mentioned * American Men: Stories of Modern Masculinity: Jordan Ritter Conn’s latest book (Hachette Book Group, 2026). https://jordanritterconn.com/ [https://jordanritterconn.com/] * The Ringer: The sports and culture outlet where Jordan serves as a senior staff writer. Connect with the Guest * Website: https://jordanritterconn.com/ [https://jordanritterconn.com/] * Professional: Senior Staff Writer at The Ringer [https://www.theringer.com/]

Q&A: The Refining Fire of Fatherhood

This episode dives into the "refining fire" of parenting, where Shaun Dawson explores the collective wisdom of past guests to answer two heavy-hitting listener questions about balancing strength with warmth and navigating the silent guilt of new fatherhood. Questions: 1. "I want my son to be resilient, but I don't want to be a 'cold' dad. How do I provide comfort without making him 'soft'?" 2. "I’m a new dad and I’m struggling to feel that 'instant connection' everyone talks about. I feel guilty, like I'm failing already. Is something wrong with me?" Key Topics Covered * The Myth of the Lone Wolf: Deconstructing the cultural idea that resilience requires being cold, silent, or unfeeling. * The Castle and Drawbridge Metaphor: Redefining a father's role as a "safe castle" where heart-level connection acts as the drawbridge, allowing sons to explore and return for restoration. * Conan Brain vs. Sherlock Brain: Navigating the struggle between the reactive, survival-based "Conan" brain and the observant, analytical "Sherlock" brain. * Paternal Bonding Timelines: Addressing the biological reality that for many men, the "oxytocin hit" of bonding often peaks later (3–6 months) than it does for mothers. * The "Redo" and Presence: Shifting focus from perfection to presence (the absence of distractions and performance) and using mistakes as opportunities for a "redo." 00:00 - Introduction: Raising Ourselves to Raise Our Sons 01:15 - The Refining Fire of Fatherhood 02:30 - Q&A: Balancing Strength and Warmth 03:45 - Breaking the Cycle of "Man Up" Culture 05:00 - The Castle and Drawbridge Metaphor 06:30 - Navigating the Nervous System: Conan vs. Sherlock 07:45 - Q&A: Addressing the Silent Guilt of New Dads 09:15 - The Reality of Paternal Bonding Timelines 10:30 - The Power of the "Redo" and True Presence 12:00 - Key Resources: Internal Weather Reports 13:30 - Episode Summary and Guest Credits 14:15 - Principle: Fatherhood is a Mirror Featured Guests * Aaron Blaine https://raising.men/episodes/battles-before-the-battlefield-aaron-blaine-on-becoming-the-father-he-never-had [https://raising.men/episodes/battles-before-the-battlefield-aaron-blaine-on-becoming-the-father-he-never-had] * Dr. Michelle Watson Canfield https://raising.men/episodes/fathers-who-heal-lead-better-dr-michelle-watson-on-raising-connected-dads [https://raising.men/episodes/fathers-who-heal-lead-better-dr-michelle-watson-on-raising-connected-dads] * Johnny Miller https://raising.men/episodes/regulate-before-you-relate-the-inner-work-of-raising-men-with-jonny-miller [https://raising.men/episodes/regulate-before-you-relate-the-inner-work-of-raising-men-with-jonny-miller]

The Wild and Tender Work of Fatherhood with Dan Doty

In a culture that has "clear-cut" the traditional forests of masculinity, 40% of young men now report having no one to turn to for guidance. We are navigating a landscape where traditional rites of passage have vanished, leaving parents to choose between "toxic" archetypes or the empty alternative of no masculinity at all. In this episode, Shaun sits down with Dan Doty, a pioneer in men’s development and leadership with over 20 years of experience in wilderness therapy and emotional intelligence. Dan breaks down why we are facing a crisis of "arrested development" in men and provides a practical roadmap for parents to cultivate "old growth" maturity in their sons—balancing fierce strength with radical heart. Key Topics Covered * The Erosion of Rites of Passage: How the disappearance of the church, Scouts, and civic institutions has left a vacuum in the transition from boyhood to manhood. * The Function of Initiation: Defining initiation not as a "toughness test," but as a mechanism to give a boy his place within a value-aligned, intact community. * The "Old Growth" vs. "Clear-Cut" Man: A metaphor for modern masculinity—where we lack the deep-rooted, mature mentors (old growth) needed to provide shade and wisdom for the next generation. * Arrested Development: The reality that without intentional growth, many men remain emotionally and spiritually undeveloped well into adulthood. * The Integration of Masculinity: Moving beyond the "man box" to a model that balances traditional strength and wilderness skills with heart-based communication. "Traditionally there's no such thing as an initiation without an intact community." "We have a society that is fundamentally full of undeveloped and immature men, point-blank." "I've been kicking the shit out of that [man] box for two decades... Let's make a bigger box because this one sucks." 00:00 - Introduction: Meet Dan Doty 02:46 - Dan’s Journey: From Wilderness Therapy to MeatEater 05:32 - Beyond the "Man Box": Creating a Bigger Definition of Masculinity 09:15 - Old Growth vs. Clear-Cut: The Metaphor for Modern Men 13:40 - The Disappearance of Traditional Rites of Passage 18:55 - What is Initiation? Community, Belonging, and Purpose 24:10 - Solving the Crisis of "Arrested Development" 28:45 - The Parent’s Dilemma: Balancing Strength and Softness 33:20 - Dan’s 6-Month Leadership & Facilitation Program 37:15 - Raising Strong Boys: Navigating Modern Cultural Challenges 41:30 - Digital Landscapes and the Search for Real Connection 44:50 - The Final Principle: Surrounding Your Sons with Mature Men Books, Tools, and Websites Mentioned * Dan’s primary platform for leadership training and fatherhood coaching. https://www.dandoty.com/ [https://www.dandoty.com/] * Dan’s specialized work focusing on expecting fathers. https://www.fatherhoodready.com/ [https://www.fatherhoodready.com/] * Raising Strong Boys: Dan’s online course designed for parents of sons. * Richard Reeves: Referenced for his research on the systemic challenges facing modern boys and men.