EP 02 · Rebuilding Connection in a Fractured Reality with Sophie Beren and Matt Klein

Double Tap · When Relationships Become Digital Performance with Matt Klein

DOUBLE TAP · WHEN RELATIONSHIPS BECOME DIGITAL PERFORMANCE WITH MATT KLEIN To help us make sense of how relationships change online, we turned to Matt Klein — a cultural strategist, writer, and Head of Foresight at Reddit. Matt’s work sits at the intersection of technology, media, and human behavior, examining how digital systems quietly shape how we relate, perform, and make meaning. In this episode, he helps us name what happens when relationships move onto digital stages. From constant visibility to frictionless design, we explore how systems built for scale reshape how we show up with others and with ourselves — often without us realizing it. WHAT WE EXPLORE IN THIS EPISODE * How relationships shift when they’re formed on public, digital stages * Performance, audience awareness, and constant visibility * The loss of backstage space and its impact on anxiety and self-trust * Dating apps, gamification, and the erosion of accountability * AI intimacy and why private, non-performative spaces feel safer * Frictionless design and how convenience shapes behavior * Why unplugging isn’t the answer * Accountability, agency, and mindful engagement with digital systems * Discomfort, disagreement, and curiosity as necessary relational skills FOLLOW ALONG 00:00 – 01:12 — Opening · Relationships on digital stages 02:03 – 05:49 — Audience, performance, and why online interactions feel unnatural 06:10 – 08:55 — Blurred lines between online and offline relationships 10:22 – 11:36 — Backstage vs. front stage · Why anxiety is rising 12:27 – 14:50 — Frictionless design and our relationship with self 16:03 – 19:41 — Dating apps, gamification, and accountability gaps 20:13 – 22:21 — Pro-social behavior and intentional design 24:40 – 31:43 — Why unplugging isn’t the answer · Agency vs. avoidance 34:27 – 38:52 — Polarization, disagreement, and narrative collapse 43:21 – 45:48 — Visibility, contradiction, and identity risk online 46:38 – 52:43 — Cultural leapfrogging and systems that enable growth 52:43 – 55:12 — The most self-centered thing Matt Klein has ever done SOME TAKEAWAYS Performance changes relationships. When interactions happen on public stages, we stop behaving organically and start managing perception. Backstage space is essential. Without places to decompress, reflect, and contradict ourselves privately, anxiety fills the gap. Friction matters. Discomfort, disagreement, and effort are not failures of relating — they’re prerequisites for depth. Convenience isn’t neutral. Frictionless design shapes behavior, often optimizing away accountability and self-trust. Unplugging is a false binary. The answer isn’t total withdrawal or total immersion, but intentional engagement. Agency begins with awareness. We can’t choose how to show up in systems we don’t know we’re inside of. WHAT WE NEED MORE OF Backstage by design. Spaces that allow privacy, reflection, and contradiction without performance. Systems that encourage accountability. Especially in dating, communication, and community-building. Curiosity over certainty. Relational resilience requires the ability to hold disagreement without collapse. Design for humans, not just scale. Platforms that consider nervous systems, not just engagement metrics. PROMPTS FOR REIMAGINATION * Where in my life do I feel like I’m performing instead of relating * What digital spaces leave me feeling more regulated, and which leave me depleted * Where has convenience replaced effort in ways that might cost me depth * What does backstage space look like for me right now * How might I engage with digital systems more intentionally rather than automatically * Where could a little discomfort actually serve my relationships LINKS FOR FURTHER EXPLORATION Matt Klein * Newsletter [https://zine.kleinkleinklein.com/] * LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/kleinkleinklein/] STAY CONNECTED Self-Centered is a space where centering the self is the first step to rethinking the systems around us. If this conversation resonated, we’d love your support in helping the work reach more listeners.   Subscribe & Listen 🎧 Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/self-centered-pod/id1845730367] 🎧 Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/06q3HzDExnhDGT3bhpew7r?utm_medium=share&utm_source=linktree] 🎧 YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/@ASelfCenteredPod]   Produced by Phoenix Maulella Edited by Louis Sangiorgio Recorded at The KINN [https://www.peerspace.com/pages/listings/65a60cb8417878000e7897ed?utm_source=copy_link&utm_campaign=listing_sharing]   Rate & Review Leaving a quick review or rating helps more people find the show, and keeps thoughtful, slow media visible in a noisy world.   Join the Community 📬 Subscribe to our newsletter [https://aselfcenteredpod.beehiiv.com/?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAadKsNQAta2MT8D4oSiOHFb-0FIPzkz4Xjn7wPtZGiWppoVSuc2tkLz-H5CAFA_aem_ZSiavNXMzhdfSowISSgcyA] for deeper dives, tools, and upcoming episodes. 💬 Follow us on Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/aselfcenteredpod/?hl=en] for clips, quotes, and behind-the-scenes moments.

EP 02 · Rebuilding Connection in a Fractured Reality with Sophie Beren and Matt Klein

What happens when the world we are living in stops feeling shared? We talk about empathy, listening, nuance, dialogue. We talk about polarization, online echo chambers, and misinformation. We talk about connection as the antidote to loneliness, and yet so many of us still feel misunderstood, unseen, or at the very edge of our own relationships. In this episode of Self-Centered, Tori Lazar and Olivia Owens ask what it takes to reconnect when our informational worlds, emotional needs, and relational patterns no longer align. What does support look like when we cannot agree on basic truths? How do we navigate discomfort without collapsing into defensiveness? And how do we rebuild trust, in ourselves and with each other, in an era defined by performance, fragmentation, and emotional overextension? Who we tapped to investigate To ground the conversation in lived experience, we turned to Sophie Beren, a unifier, founder of The Conversationalist, and a leader in helping people navigate dialogue across difference. Sophie’s work centers on breaking out of echo chambers and creating containers for honest, purpose-driven conversation. She helps us unpack the collapse of shared reality, the difference between discomfort and danger, and what conversational consent looks like when tensions run high. To help us explore the systems shaping our social and emotional lives, we sat down with Matt Klein, a cultural strategist mapping the ways digital environments influence identity, behavior, and connection. Matt reveals how platforms turn relationships into performance, why our tolerance for friction is shrinking, and what happens when every interaction is mediated by an algorithmic stage. Together, their perspectives illustrate how personal experience and structural design are always in conversation, and how reclaiming connection requires addressing both. What we explore in this episode Why people living in different information loops struggle to connect Discomfort vs. danger: how to stay in hard conversations without self-betrayal Conversational consent and the art of setting shared intentions Reciprocity vs. over-functioning in relationships The fear of voicing needs and how it blocks intimacy Performance culture and the loss of “backstage time” Why parasocial relationships evoke real emotional responses How the feed trains us to avoid friction and outsource selfhood Storytelling as both a mirror and container for healing Co-creation as the foundation for deeper relationships and dialogue Follow along 00:00 — Show open · Why connection feels harder right now 00:48 — Social overstimulation · Olivia on friendship, solitude, and being alone 02:17 — Emotional availability · The anxiety of initiating connection 04:07 — Parasocial desire · What Love Island opened up for Olivia 05:57 — Healing inside relationship · Triggers as invitations 07:21 — Reentering dating · Slowness, readiness, and the self 09:21 — Reciprocity as intention · “Am I getting what I’m giving?” 10:32 — Over-functioning · Childhood patterns of giving without receiving 12:42 — Edges of belonging · Feeling peripheral in friend groups 15:15 — Boundaries vs. needs · The vulnerability of naming what you want 17:45 — Love languages and emotional texture 19:32 — Double-Tap: Sophie Beren intro · Echo chambers and courageous dialogue 20:20–21:48 — Conversational consent · Intention, capacity, and relational safety 21:48–23:11 — Evolving vs. changing · What conversation can realistically do 23:11–27:16 — Childhood conditions that shape how we listen and respond 27:16 — Double-Tap: Matt Klein intro · Identity, performance, and digital environments 29:29–31:30 — Platforms as third parties · When the medium speaks for us 31:30–34:43 — Opposing views · Hearing vs. being heard 34:43–37:24 — Shared reality and the cultural cost of fragmentation 37:24–40:39 — Echo chambers IRL · Comfort as a false signal of truth 40:39–44:24 — The feed as a trough · Design incentives and internalization 44:24–47:10 — The vanishing backstage · Why we’re starving for unperformed space 47:10–51:01 — Anxiety, avoidance, and the cost of frictionless design 51:01–54:23 — Story as identity · Updating the narrative as we evolve 54:23–59:04 — Parasocial relationships · Naming them to navigate them 59:04–1:04:40 — Responsible innovation · Designing systems with humanity in mind 1:04:40–1:06:00 — Co-creation · Building relationships through shared containers 1:06:00 — Close · Staying a little more self-centered Some takeaways Shared reality is a prerequisite for connection. Without a baseline of truth, conflict becomes impossible to navigate and empathy has nowhere to land. Discomfort is not danger. Friction is part of connection. Learning to stay regulated inside tension expands relational possibility. Reciprocity is a practice, not a personality trait. Over-functioning often comes from old conditioning—not genuine alignment. Needs deepen intimacy. Boundaries protect the relationship; voiced needs grow it. We’re losing our backstage. When every interaction is performed, authenticity becomes harder to access—even alone. Parasocial relationships are emotionally real. Understanding them helps us reclaim agency instead of judging ourselves. What We Need More Of Containers for conversation. Clear intentions, shared capacity, and structured dialogue create the conditions for honesty and care. Design that honors human limits. Platforms must evolve beyond engagement metrics toward supporting resilience, friction, and critical thinking. Practices that reintroduce friction. Not everything should be easy—depth requires resistance. Relational co-creation. Shared expectations, explicit agreements, and intentional repair build trust more sustainably than vibe-based connection. Prompts for Reimagination Where am I confusing discomfort with danger, and what conversation has space to continue? What need am I not voicing because I am afraid of how it will be received? Which echo chambers (digital or relational) am I participating in without realizing it? What would “backstage time” look like in my day or week? How might co-creation shift the dynamics of a relationship I care about? What story about myself is outdated, and what would it mean to rewrite it? Links for Further Exploration Sophie Beren  * Website [https://www.theconversationalist.com] * Personal Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/sophieberen] * The Conversationalist on IG [https://www.instagram.com/theconversationalist] Matt Klein * Substack (ZINE) [https://zine.kleinkleinklein.com/?utm_campaign=profile_chips] * LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/kleinkleinklein/] STAY CONNECTED Self-Centered is a space where centering the self is the first step to rethinking the systems around us. If this conversation resonated, we’d love your support in helping the work reach more listeners.   Subscribe & Listen 🎧 Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/self-centered-pod/id1845730367] 🎧 Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/06q3HzDExnhDGT3bhpew7r?utm_medium=share&utm_source=linktree] 🎧 YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/@ASelfCenteredPod]   Produced by Phoenix Maulella Edited by Louis Sangiorgio Recorded at The KINN [https://www.peerspace.com/pages/listings/65a60cb8417878000e7897ed?utm_source=copy_link&utm_campaign=listing_sharing]   Rate & Review Leaving a quick review or rating helps more people find the show, and keeps thoughtful, slow media visible in a noisy world.   Join the Community 📬 Subscribe to our newsletter [https://aselfcenteredpod.beehiiv.com/?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAadKsNQAta2MT8D4oSiOHFb-0FIPzkz4Xjn7wPtZGiWppoVSuc2tkLz-H5CAFA_aem_ZSiavNXMzhdfSowISSgcyA] for deeper dives, tools, and upcoming episodes. 💬 Follow us on Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/aselfcenteredpod/?hl=en] for clips, quotes, and behind-the-scenes moments.

DOUBLE TAP · Identity, Community, and Choosing Safety with Van Newman

To rethink how we relate to identity, platforms, and belonging, we turned to Van Neumann [https://www.linkedin.com/in/vansnewman/] — a writer, designer, and cultural strategist whose work spans community building, narrative worlds, and screenwriting. Van’s question sits at the center of it all: What does it take to feel safe enough to be honest? In this episode, Van traces their evolution from creative strategist to screenwriter, the limits of platform-based community, and the hard, practical choices trans people are making to live safely and fully. It’s a conversation about creative focus, digital agency, and building containers that let people rest, rebuild, and be real. What we explore in this episode The difference between a friend group and a community with purpose, structure, and containers Why opting out of platforms is hard when daily life and safety still run through them Creative evolution in public: being known for many things and choosing “writer” for this season Original thought vs. the algorithm: how distraction dilutes selfhood Character as mirror: putting more of yourself on the page in screenwriting “Not a heroic timeline”: starting from the real baseline and chipping away Safety as a creative condition — the ID/passport reality for trans people Mini-experiments over master plans: zines, retreats, private sharing, and trying once The one question to ask again and again: “Why am I doing this?” Follow along 00:00 – 01:27 — Opening · Who Van is and why this conversation now 01:27 – 03:41 — The builder’s impulse · Communities born from a single IG post 03:41 – 06:12 — Platform resistance and rethinking how to gather 06:12 – 08:29 — Letting projects live beyond you · A design circle becomes a co-op 08:29 – 10:17 — Shifting to screenwriting and stepping back from public community work 10:17 – 12:00 — Settling into “writer” while being remembered for many things 12:00 – 15:39 — When do you feel most yourself? Presence over distraction 16:08 – 19:23 — Character as mirror · Vulnerability in the writing 20:46 – 23:31 — Incubating screen work while doing public, smaller experiments 23:31 – 26:02 — The internet as superstructure · Why exits are complicated 26:02 – 28:18 — Living abroad and the real-world dependence on Meta tools 28:18 – 31:38 — Passports, IDs, and safety for trans people 31:38 – 34:08 — If you can’t go 0→100, chip away locally and communally 34:08 – 36:39 — Friend group vs. organizing body · Containers and agendas 38:12 – 44:36 — Zines, retreats, private sharing · Mini experiments over master plans 45:02 – 47:38 — Ask “Why am I doing this?” then ask why again 47:57 – 50:31 — The most self-centered thing: leaving the country to choose peace and safety 50:42 – 51:27 — Host reflections and close Some takeaways Safety enables originality. Less distraction and more signal control create room for the most honest thoughts — and the work that follows. Community needs a container. Friendship is care; organizing is purpose. Clear vessels (agendas, cadence, roles) turn care into collective action. Evolving in public is allowed. You can be known for many things and still choose a one-word identity for a season. Today, Van chooses “writer.” The internet is infrastructure. “Leaving platforms” meets real-world limits when access, translation, and safety still run through them. Try once, then decide. Mini experiments — a monthly zine, a retreat, a private update — beat forcing every idea into a brand or business. What We Need More Of Containers that protect care. Spaces designed for rest and honesty, not just output and visibility. Small, repeatable actions. When the system won’t budge, chip away with durable, communal practices. Honest baselines. Before we tell the heroic story, accept the constraints — then choose the next doable move. Boundaries as creative fuel. Reduce inputs, reclaim attention, and let original thought surface. Prompts for Reimagination Where am I confusing friendship with organized community — and what container would clarify the purpose? Which parts of my life still rely on platforms I want to leave, and what’s a realistic “chip-away” plan this month? If I chose one word for my creative identity this season, what would it be? What could I try once — a zine, a private email, a retreat — without turning it into a brand? When I open an app, why am I doing this? What’s the why behind the why? What boundary would give me more original thought and less algorithm in my day? STAY CONNECTED Self-Centered is a space where centering the self is the first step to rethinking the systems around us. If this conversation resonated, we’d love your support in helping the work reach more listeners.   Subscribe & Listen 🎧 Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/self-centered-pod/id1845730367] 🎧 Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/06q3HzDExnhDGT3bhpew7r?utm_medium=share&utm_source=linktree] 🎧 YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/@ASelfCenteredPod]   Produced by Phoenix Maulella Edited by Louis Sangiorgio Recorded at The KINN [https://www.peerspace.com/pages/listings/65a60cb8417878000e7897ed?utm_source=copy_link&utm_campaign=listing_sharing]   Rate & Review Leaving a quick review or rating helps more people find the show, and keeps thoughtful, slow media visible in a noisy world.   Join the Community 📬 Subscribe to our newsletter [https://aselfcenteredpod.beehiiv.com/?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAadKsNQAta2MT8D4oSiOHFb-0FIPzkz4Xjn7wPtZGiWppoVSuc2tkLz-H5CAFA_aem_ZSiavNXMzhdfSowISSgcyA] for deeper dives, tools, and upcoming episodes. 💬 Follow us on Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/aselfcenteredpod/?hl=en] for clips, quotes, and behind-the-scenes moments.

DOUBLE TAP · Play, Community, and Redefining Healing with Minaa B.

DOUBLE TAP · PLAY, COMMUNITY, AND REDEFINING HEALING WITH MINAA B. To help us re-examine the story of healing, we turned to Minaa B. — a licensed therapist, social-worker-turned-author, and founder of the media company, I’m So Mature. Her work bridges psychology and culture, positioning nostalgia and play as serious mental-health practices. In this episode, she reminds us that healing is not about fixing what’s “wrong,” but building the capacity to function, connect, and experience joy — even when life feels heavy. WHAT WE EXPLORE IN THIS EPISODE * The difference between good and bad mental health — and why it’s not about being happy * How resilience and self-efficacy help us thrive through adversity * Perfectionism as self-sabotage: the marathon with no finish line * Why your devices can’t tell you how well you’re doing * Family patterns that shape how we seek validation and stay too long in unhealthy systems * Self-advocacy inside healthcare and therapy — when to speak up and when to walk away * Joy as an act of resistance, not avoidance * How community care can coexist with self-care through four circles of support FOLLOW ALONG * 00:00 – 02:20 — Opening · Why healing doesn’t have to be heavy * 02:50 – 05:57 — Defining good vs. bad mental health * 07:10 – 09:59 — Resilience, self-esteem, and belief in self * 10:31 – 15:27 — Self-advocacy in systems that dismiss our experiences * 17:03 – 18:28 — Family wounds and learning to leave when we’re not seen * 20:41 – 23:24 — Measuring vs. feeling · Knowing yourself better than your ring * 24:17 – 26:38 — Practice, not performance · Problem-solving as healing * 30:25 – 37:07 — Culture, rest, and the roots of community care * 41:33 – 52:08 — The Circle of Support · Intimacy, friendship, participation, exchange * 54:19 – 59:42 — Perfectionism, productivity, and redefining “good enough” * 1:02:22 – 1:07:59 — Joy and hope as tools for endurance * 1:08:20 – 1:09:21 — The most self-centered thing Minaa B. has ever done SOME TAKEAWAYS Healing is about function. Good mental health isn’t the absence of bad days — it’s the ability to regulate, adapt, and keep going. Perfectionism is self-sabotage. Trying to be “better” all the time turns care into punishment. You don’t max out at 5 percent — only at zero. Joy fuels endurance. Joy isn’t frivolous. It’s the energy source for sustained advocacy, creativity, and resistance. It helps us keep showing up to do the work of repair in a world that’s constantly asking more of us. Devices give data, not direction. Your ring can track your stress — it can’t set your boundaries or solve your problems. Community care is layered. Minaa’s Circle of Support framework shows how intimacy, friendship, participation, and exchange create a web of belonging. Culture dictates care. American hyper-individualism makes self-care an “I” project instead of a “we” practice. In cultures that still prioritize interdependence, rest and community are seen as public goods — not indulgences. WHAT WE NEED MORE OF Healing with humanity. Healing isn’t a solo performance or a productivity project; it’s a collective process of remembering how to be human in systems that often dehumanize. Care that includes connection. The self-care industry was built for an individualist culture, but real care requires an ecosystem. Boundaries as love. In systems that reward overextension, saying no is a radical act of preservation. Cultural change from the ground up. Third spaces, sober-curious communities, and grassroots efforts redefining how we gather and grow. PROMPTS FOR REIMAGINATION * Where have I internalized independence as the only form of strength? * What systems (workplace, family, healthcare, tech) are shaping how I define “wellness”? * Which cultural values around rest, play, or interdependence do I want to re-import into my own ecosystem? * What would a “joy infrastructure” look like in my workplace, household, or community? * How might I practice community care within my own circles of support? * How might I start measuring my healing by how it feels instead of how it looks? * What boundaries could act as maintenance against exhaustion? LINKS FOR FURTHER EXPLORATION Minaa B. * Website [https://www.minaab.com/] * Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/minaa_b/] * I’m So Mature [https://imsomature.substack.com/] STAY CONNECTED Self-Centered is a space where centering the self is the first step to rethinking the systems around us. If this conversation resonated, we’d love your support in helping the work reach more listeners.   Subscribe & Listen 🎧 Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/self-centered-pod/id1845730367] 🎧 Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/06q3HzDExnhDGT3bhpew7r?utm_medium=share&utm_source=linktree] 🎧 YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/@ASelfCenteredPod]   Produced by Phoenix Maulella Edited by Louis Sangiorgio Recorded at The KINN [https://www.peerspace.com/pages/listings/65a60cb8417878000e7897ed?utm_source=copy_link&utm_campaign=listing_sharing]   Rate & Review Leaving a quick review or rating helps more people find the show, and keeps thoughtful, slow media visible in a noisy world.   Join the Community 📬 Subscribe to our newsletter [https://aselfcenteredpod.beehiiv.com/?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAadKsNQAta2MT8D4oSiOHFb-0FIPzkz4Xjn7wPtZGiWppoVSuc2tkLz-H5CAFA_aem_ZSiavNXMzhdfSowISSgcyA] for deeper dives, tools, and upcoming episodes. 💬 Follow us on Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/aselfcenteredpod/?hl=en] for clips, quotes, and behind-the-scenes moments.

EP 01 · Reclaiming Our Peace in the Performance of Healing with Van Newman and Minaa B.

EP 01 · RECLAIMING OUR PEACE IN THE PERFORMANCE OF HEALING WITH VAN NEWMAN AND MINAA B. When did caring for ourselves become something to prove? “Mental health” is everywhere. Ad campaigns. Onboarding paperwork. Influencer captions. We talk about burnout, boundaries, therapy, rest. And yet, for many of us, actually feeling better still feels out of reach. In this debut of Self-Centered, Tori Lazar and Olivia Owens slow down to ask what support really looks like when productivity culture swallows self-care, healing becomes performance, and rest turns into another thing to optimize. What does care feel like when it’s not measured or monetized? And how do we find our way back—especially in a world that keeps asking us to push through? WHO WE TAPPED TO INVESTIGATE In each core episode of Self-Centered, we sit down with two guests: one to help us explore the self, and one to help us examine the systems that shape it. Together, their perspectives reveal how personal experience and structural design are always in conversation. To ground the conversation in lived experience, we turned to Van Newman—a writer, designer, and cultural strategist who has spent the last decade creating digital, physical, and narrative spaces where people can feel more like themselves. From platforms like Somewhere Good to the writers’ room, Van’s work blends systems thinking with lived experience to ask: What does it take to feel safe enough to be honest? In this conversation, we dive into the importance, and the challenges, of finding community in an ever-changing landscape. To help us explore the systems that impact our mental health, we sat down with Minaa B.—a licensed therapist, author of Owning Our Struggles, and founder of the media company I’m So Mature. Her work lives at the intersection of mental health, workplace wellbeing, and cultural care. A former social worker turned consultant, Minaa challenges the ways we’ve turned healing into performance, and invites us to choose presence instead. In this episode, she keeps it real about the urgency of challenging the systems we’ve inherited. WHAT WE EXPLORE IN THIS EPISODE * Why mental-health visibility hasn’t translated into actual wellbeing * How healing became something to perform (and who that serves) * The difference between resilience as survival vs. resilience as sustainability * Perfectionism, palatability, and the quiet harm of being “the regulated one” * Rest and joy as rituals of return—not rewards for endurance * Devotion to the self vs. self-optimization and hyper-discipline * What it means to design systems that support rather than measure healing FOLLOW ALONG * 00:00 — Show open · What this project is and why now * 02:50 — Self × system · How we’ll hold tension without binaries * 05:22 — Episode setup · “If the language of healing is co-opted, how do we find our way back?” * 10:08 — Performance wellness · When sleep scores and discipline replace softness * 13:07 — Double-Tap: Minaa B intro · What “quality mental health” really means * 14:03–17:03 — Minaa on function, resilience, and why support shouldn’t require constant strength * 17:32–21:34 — Palatability, people-pleasing, and unlearning regulated selfhood * 24:31–26:37 — Labels as shields · Therapy-speak vs. feeling the thing * 28:44–29:36 — Untamed · Glennon Doyle’s reminder that self-liberation frees others, too * 35:22 — Double-Tap: Van Newman intro · Safety, identity, and community in flux * 36:20–41:20 — Van on resilience myths, leaving/returning, and “small hills” of change * 43:17–45:10 — Rest as source of resilience · Learning, not earning * 49:00–51:37 — Softer, cyclical models of healing (home, work, community) * 57:01–1:01:24 — Work as a site of care · Structure, data, and leadership * 1:02:07–1:04:31 — From discipline to devotion · Designing for regeneration * 1:05:05 — Close · How to stay a little more self-centered SOME TAKEAWAYS Healing shouldn’t require heroics. When systems rely on individual resilience, they outsource care. Support should reduce the need for constant endurance. Palatability keeps us small. Performing “fine” to stabilize a room fragments authenticity. Permission to be messy is part of being whole. Devotion > discipline. Discipline optimizes; devotion nourishes. The point isn’t to become “better,” it’s to remain in honest relationship with yourself. Rest is not a reward for endurance. If rest only arrives as recovery, we’re already overdrawn. Treat it as a sustaining rhythm and ritual of return. Language can liberate or limit. Labels help us name; overuse helps us avoid. Precision without compassion dilutes connection. WHAT WE NEED MORE OF Care that counts. Move beyond “performance wellness” toward practices that prioritize rest, reflection, and repair over metrics and measurement. Soft leadership as a standard. Leaders modeling repair through transparency, boundaries, and accountability—replacing endurance with empathy. Care by design. Workplaces and teams intentionally building systems for rest, flexibility, and regeneration before burnout becomes the norm. Community as infrastructure. Mutual-aid networks, peer support, and workplace cultures that make dignity and connection non-negotiable parts of how we work and live. PROMPTS FOR REIMAGINATION * If true care shouldn’t require resilience, what would it look like to design systems that reduce the need for endurance instead of rewarding it? * If healing has become performance, how can we return to practices that feel nourishing? * Where are you still optimizing what needs to be felt? * What would change if rest wasn’t something you earned, but something you protected? * How might devotion replace discipline in the way you approach your own growth, care, and connection? * When was the last time you felt fully yourself, and what conditions made that possible? LINKS FOR FURTHER EXPLORATION Minaa B. * Website [https://www.minaab.com/] * Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/minaa_b/] * Owning Our Struggles [https://www.minaab.com/books] * I’M SO MATURE [https://imsomature.substack.com/] Van Newman * Website [https://communityvan.cargo.site/] * LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/vansnewman/] * Writing Portfolio [https://vanwrites.cargo.site/] STAY CONNECTED Self-Centered is a space where centering the self is the first step to rethinking the systems around us. If this conversation resonated, we’d love your support in helping the work reach more listeners.   Subscribe & Listen 🎧 Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/self-centered-pod/id1845730367] 🎧 Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/06q3HzDExnhDGT3bhpew7r?utm_medium=share&utm_source=linktree] 🎧 YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/@ASelfCenteredPod]   Produced by Phoenix Maulella Edited by Louis Sangiorgio Recorded at The KINN [https://www.peerspace.com/pages/listings/65a60cb8417878000e7897ed?utm_source=copy_link&utm_campaign=listing_sharing]   Rate & Review Leaving a quick review or rating helps more people find the show, and keeps thoughtful, slow media visible in a noisy world.   Join the Community 📬 Subscribe to our newsletter [https://aselfcenteredpod.beehiiv.com/?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAadKsNQAta2MT8D4oSiOHFb-0FIPzkz4Xjn7wPtZGiWppoVSuc2tkLz-H5CAFA_aem_ZSiavNXMzhdfSowISSgcyA] for deeper dives, tools, and upcoming episodes. 💬 Follow us on Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/aselfcenteredpod/?hl=en] for clips, quotes, and behind-the-scenes moments.