What Wall Street Actually Wants from Crypto | Bart Smith & Laine Litman

What Wall Street Actually Wants from Crypto | Bart Smith & Laine Litman

On today's Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn sits down with Bart Smith and Laine Litman, CEO and COO of AVAT, the Avalanche Treasury Company, two traditional finance veterans who both spent years watching institutions talk about crypto before finally deciding to go all in themselves.  Bart and Laine get into what makes AVAT different from the pile of treasury companies trying to copy the MicroStrategy model, and why their bet is on giving investors exposure to the whole Avalanche ecosystem rather than just stacking the token. Institutional conversations almost always start as investment discussions and quickly turn into implementation discussions, but the Clarity Act might be the unlock most people aren't paying close enough attention to.  TIMESTAMPS  02:49 From ETFs to Crypto 05:48 Laine's Path from Voice Trading to Blockchain 09:00 Why AVAT Is Not Another MicroStrategy 13:40 The Private Market Problem 14:57 What Institutional Conversations Look Like Right Now 28:43 The Role of Debt Structure in a Bear Market 35:39 AI, Agentic Payments, and What to Watch in 2026 You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps.  Spotify: https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbC1wRk0yX2xxZG1scWRlZFhHV3V3QkpWR0RJZ3xBQ3Jtc0treGFBUWVDRGYyYWN1UGprSjItckRKNnROZ2x4Sl8yNjZJWnV6SFBVaXMwb2RObm14MDRHUnpZUmFxcWZlbTBfVGtlelF5bl9ObzkxMGNiU1ZwWGJfYllwZFJhZmNxd0pTaklBLUZuaGZfUkVKRWNIRQ&q=https%3A%2F%2Fopen.spotify.com%2Fshow%2F0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ&v=bHnKqwU_Pm0https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ [https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ]  Apple Podcasts: https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbDdpM0dxMUp3ZktXNm5tdWJscE5FbEw2ZnJsQXxBQ3Jtc0ttcnI3VHNVR0ctNXdobGZabVEtTE9aVW51OGJhcnZ0UFhmNmVCdHcyVHJQSi1SNGtUeU0xZnVqVUFlak9qaEdvcmRvXzRtWlpYSWpUZkNMZUpuQWZsS3ZWRW5ZelRvQWw4Y2xyYmxwMVdsd2toY3RWNA&q=https%3A%2F%2Fpodcasts.apple.com%2Fus%2Fpodcast%2Ftalking-tokens%2Fid1743669141&v=bHnKqwU_Pm0https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141] YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens [https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens]  Follow us on X Jacquelyn:   / jacqmelinek  [https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbHUwcjYtUXBFODE0VHl6MU1lLVpQUWh0WWMzQXxBQ3Jtc0trQlJkaEg2ZGQwVkpWVFZwcDlsLWZNbW9iVXJuRWx4QVh1ckdVT00wZnZlbU1DU1BjdFRQaW51bkU4Z0ltMmZPZ1ZQdl9LTkM5RFQ5WUdNaGFQc0tJcWg4LXg5UlZ2bEtCS21xb3UtSlBBWjVkYW1KTQ&q=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fjacqmelinek&v=bHnKqwU_Pm0]  Talking Tokens:   / _talkingtokens  [https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbE0zMXV6bkd2SXdNWm5uZkh6UTB3cUNvYXFpQXxBQ3Jtc0tuS2NOM0xHTHBsTnJ6dUhIUmxFem9ON2Nkak82U3dic3NtR0FiMlZNN1UzakVyNlZWcHZteFBqM3Z5WnVRWWc5NFZBZ3hnN2ZNZ0dXM3dnNThITkdMUWlrVlhyTU9McUNyUVRqZ0VIZ2FvUkFSWE92RQ&q=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2F_TalkingTokens&v=bHnKqwU_Pm0]  Follow us on Instagram   / _talkingtokens   [https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqa21BOHBTUF90bmJzNG5GWFY3aW9RNXlBLU9tUXxBQ3Jtc0trRVFXLTkzbGZtejhia1FoamJfaWNKdDF4aWZHaTRzUnBJWDJVODdaeWdTOTN3eUZnR3lpZlRidmRtcXh1dHdoNWhFUzNOcXA4cmd6U3MtdlJIVnBmRVoxQ0VsRWFOLUNEb3J4UzVyT3JBcXpPMVhkNA&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.instagram.com%2F_talkingtokens%2F&v=bHnKqwU_Pm0] Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

The 4 Things That Need to Happen Before AI Agents Can Actually Spend Money | An Agentic Payments Explainer

On our first episode of Strata Research presented by Talking Tokens & Token Relations, Jacquelyn sits down with Institutional Research Analyst Alex Beaudry to breakdown agentic payments. Alex walks through why it isn't one market but three distinct payment flows, each with completely different infrastructure requirements, and why the machine-to-machine category is where stablecoins have a real structural edge over traditional rails. They also get into the four things that actually need to happen before this market scales, and why the narrative is still running well ahead of the transaction volumes to back it up. Check out the associated newsletter for more details: https://www.token-relations.com/p/agentic-payments-where-we-are-and-where-we-re-going [https://www.token-relations.com/p/agentic-payments-where-we-are-and-where-we-re-going]  TIMESTAMPS  00:00 Introduction Strata Research 01:24 Understanding Agentic Payments 04:54 The Flows of Agentic Payments 07:24 Challenges and Frameworks for Scaling 11:39 Recent Developments and Future Outlook You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps.  Spotify: https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbC1wRk0yX2xxZG1scWRlZFhHV3V3QkpWR0RJZ3xBQ3Jtc0treGFBUWVDRGYyYWN1UGprSjItckRKNnROZ2x4Sl8yNjZJWnV6SFBVaXMwb2RObm14MDRHUnpZUmFxcWZlbTBfVGtlelF5bl9ObzkxMGNiU1ZwWGJfYllwZFJhZmNxd0pTaklBLUZuaGZfUkVKRWNIRQ&q=https%3A%2F%2Fopen.spotify.com%2Fshow%2F0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ&v=bHnKqwU_Pm0https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ [https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ]  Apple Podcasts: https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbDdpM0dxMUp3ZktXNm5tdWJscE5FbEw2ZnJsQXxBQ3Jtc0ttcnI3VHNVR0ctNXdobGZabVEtTE9aVW51OGJhcnZ0UFhmNmVCdHcyVHJQSi1SNGtUeU0xZnVqVUFlak9qaEdvcmRvXzRtWlpYSWpUZkNMZUpuQWZsS3ZWRW5ZelRvQWw4Y2xyYmxwMVdsd2toY3RWNA&q=https%3A%2F%2Fpodcasts.apple.com%2Fus%2Fpodcast%2Ftalking-tokens%2Fid1743669141&v=bHnKqwU_Pm0https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141] YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens [https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens]  Follow us on X Jacquelyn:   / jacqmelinek  [https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbHUwcjYtUXBFODE0VHl6MU1lLVpQUWh0WWMzQXxBQ3Jtc0trQlJkaEg2ZGQwVkpWVFZwcDlsLWZNbW9iVXJuRWx4QVh1ckdVT00wZnZlbU1DU1BjdFRQaW51bkU4Z0ltMmZPZ1ZQdl9LTkM5RFQ5WUdNaGFQc0tJcWg4LXg5UlZ2bEtCS21xb3UtSlBBWjVkYW1KTQ&q=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fjacqmelinek&v=bHnKqwU_Pm0]  Talking Tokens:   / _talkingtokens  [https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbE0zMXV6bkd2SXdNWm5uZkh6UTB3cUNvYXFpQXxBQ3Jtc0tuS2NOM0xHTHBsTnJ6dUhIUmxFem9ON2Nkak82U3dic3NtR0FiMlZNN1UzakVyNlZWcHZteFBqM3Z5WnVRWWc5NFZBZ3hnN2ZNZ0dXM3dnNThITkdMUWlrVlhyTU9McUNyUVRqZ0VIZ2FvUkFSWE92RQ&q=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2F_TalkingTokens&v=bHnKqwU_Pm0]  Follow us on Instagram   / _talkingtokens   [https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqa21BOHBTUF90bmJzNG5GWFY3aW9RNXlBLU9tUXxBQ3Jtc0trRVFXLTkzbGZtejhia1FoamJfaWNKdDF4aWZHaTRzUnBJWDJVODdaeWdTOTN3eUZnR3lpZlRidmRtcXh1dHdoNWhFUzNOcXA4cmd6U3MtdlJIVnBmRVoxQ0VsRWFOLUNEb3J4UzVyT3JBcXpPMVhkNA&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.instagram.com%2F_talkingtokens%2F&v=bHnKqwU_Pm0] Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

USDT0's Co-Founder on Moving $90B Cross-Chain, the Agent Economy, and Tether's Untouchable Moat

On today's Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn sits down with Lorenzo Romagnoli, co-founder of USDT0, a stablecoin protocol that has moved over $90 billion in USDT across 25+ blockchains since launching in January 2025. Lorenzo makes the case that stablecoins were not just built for Americans or Europeans but for people in emerging markets across Africa, Latin America, and Asia who needed a way out of crushing inflation, and explains why that's the core reason Tether's dominance is so hard to compete with. They also get into what it will actually take for AI agents to transact onchain at scale, and why Lorenzo believes the teams still building with true decentralization in mind are the ones worth watching. TIMESTAMPS  00:00 Introduction to USDT Zero and Its Founders 02:31 The Evolution of USDT and Decentralized Finance 05:36 Understanding the Mechanics of USDT Zero 08:33 User Behavior and Volume Trends 11:34 Tether's Role in the Global Financial Ecosystem 15:38 Targeting Emerging Markets with Stablecoins 18:45 The Competitive Landscape of Stablecoins 21:12 The Future of Stablecoins 24:05 Global Adoption and Use Cases 27:32 The Rise of USDT and Market Dynamics 30:11 Innovation and Staying Ahead 34:23 The Role of Decentralization in Finance 39:45 Advice for Future Innovators You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps.  Spotify: https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbC1wRk0yX2xxZG1scWRlZFhHV3V3QkpWR0RJZ3xBQ3Jtc0treGFBUWVDRGYyYWN1UGprSjItckRKNnROZ2x4Sl8yNjZJWnV6SFBVaXMwb2RObm14MDRHUnpZUmFxcWZlbTBfVGtlelF5bl9ObzkxMGNiU1ZwWGJfYllwZFJhZmNxd0pTaklBLUZuaGZfUkVKRWNIRQ&q=https%3A%2F%2Fopen.spotify.com%2Fshow%2F0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ&v=bHnKqwU_Pm0https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ [https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ]  Apple Podcasts: https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbDdpM0dxMUp3ZktXNm5tdWJscE5FbEw2ZnJsQXxBQ3Jtc0ttcnI3VHNVR0ctNXdobGZabVEtTE9aVW51OGJhcnZ0UFhmNmVCdHcyVHJQSi1SNGtUeU0xZnVqVUFlak9qaEdvcmRvXzRtWlpYSWpUZkNMZUpuQWZsS3ZWRW5ZelRvQWw4Y2xyYmxwMVdsd2toY3RWNA&q=https%3A%2F%2Fpodcasts.apple.com%2Fus%2Fpodcast%2Ftalking-tokens%2Fid1743669141&v=bHnKqwU_Pm0https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141] YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens [https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens] Follow us on X Jacquelyn:   / jacqmelinek  [https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbHUwcjYtUXBFODE0VHl6MU1lLVpQUWh0WWMzQXxBQ3Jtc0trQlJkaEg2ZGQwVkpWVFZwcDlsLWZNbW9iVXJuRWx4QVh1ckdVT00wZnZlbU1DU1BjdFRQaW51bkU4Z0ltMmZPZ1ZQdl9LTkM5RFQ5WUdNaGFQc0tJcWg4LXg5UlZ2bEtCS21xb3UtSlBBWjVkYW1KTQ&q=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fjacqmelinek&v=bHnKqwU_Pm0]  Talking Tokens:   / _talkingtokens  [https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbE0zMXV6bkd2SXdNWm5uZkh6UTB3cUNvYXFpQXxBQ3Jtc0tuS2NOM0xHTHBsTnJ6dUhIUmxFem9ON2Nkak82U3dic3NtR0FiMlZNN1UzakVyNlZWcHZteFBqM3Z5WnVRWWc5NFZBZ3hnN2ZNZ0dXM3dnNThITkdMUWlrVlhyTU9McUNyUVRqZ0VIZ2FvUkFSWE92RQ&q=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2F_TalkingTokens&v=bHnKqwU_Pm0]  Follow us on Instagram   / _talkingtokens   [https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqa21BOHBTUF90bmJzNG5GWFY3aW9RNXlBLU9tUXxBQ3Jtc0trRVFXLTkzbGZtejhia1FoamJfaWNKdDF4aWZHaTRzUnBJWDJVODdaeWdTOTN3eUZnR3lpZlRidmRtcXh1dHdoNWhFUzNOcXA4cmd6U3MtdlJIVnBmRVoxQ0VsRWFOLUNEb3J4UzVyT3JBcXpPMVhkNA&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.instagram.com%2F_talkingtokens%2F&v=bHnKqwU_Pm0] Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

What You Need To Know About x402 And How It Impacts Payments | Erik Reppel

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Erik Reppel, head of engineering at Coinbase Developer Platform and creator of x402., They discuss why the internet struggled without a native payment protocol and why AI agents finally made the problem urgent enough to solve. Erik explains how x402 lets computers send money as easily as they send data, and why Visa, Mastercard, and others are all founding members of its x402 Foundation. He walks through why the 402 HTTP status code was reserved for "payment required" but left empty for decades, how publishers can now charge AI agents with micropayments instead of losing traffic to scraping, and why agents with wallets are fundamentally more useful than agents without them. The conversation covers why stablecoins are uniquely suited for low-dollar transactions, how Coinbase uses AI internally to make every engineer 3x more productive, and why the best infrastructure eventually becomes invisible. TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro (01:25) Why AI becoming an economic actor made the internet's missing payment layer urgent (03:21) What x402 actually is (05:14) How x402 works like HTTP but for money and with any client, server, or payment (06:26) What Erik wants people to build with x402: new business models beyond ads and subscriptions (08:31) Who is already using x402: CoinGecko, Messari, a16z, and agent native publishers (09:56) Why the 402 status code sat empty for decades (11:15) Where x402 stands today: 15+ chains, stablecoins first, credit cards next (12:50) Why Visa and Mastercard joined the x402 Foundation (15:41) Biggest use cases right now (17:16) Are AI agents good traders? Why wallets for payments matter more than wallets for trading (19:17) What needs to happen for AI agents to participate more meaningfully onchain (21:44) Do AI agents understand value? Economic reasoning and budget awareness (23:22) Long-term vision for x402 (26:40) Final advice: play positive sum games with positive people ESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ [https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ] Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141] Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek [https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek] Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens [https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens] Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/ [https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/] Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

What goes on behind $30B in tokenized assets | Jason Barraza

In this episode of Talking Tokenization, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Jason Barraza, head of institutional business development at RedStone, about why blockchain oracles are evolving from simple price feeds into the institutional intelligence layer that tokenized finance still needs. Jason, who previously served as COO at Security Token Market where he helped track over 800 tokenized real world assets, explains how RedStone powers NAV feeds for BlackRock, Apollo, and Franklin Templeton, and why the firm's acquisition of Credora for onchain risk ratings is part of building a full-stack intelligence platform. He walks through why RWAs as DeFi collateral is the next big unlock and why the buy-build-or-lease question is splitting institutions into fundamentally different infrastructure strategies. The conversation covers why private credit is gaining so much attention, how Securitize’s Computershare partnership lowers barriers for corporates wanting to tokenize, and why standardization around compliance and portable identity is the key to scaling institutional adoption. This episode is sponsored by Securitize, the proven leader in tokenized funds, equities, and private markets. Discover more at securitize.io [https://securitize.io/?utm_source=talkingtokens.beehiiv.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=talking-tokenization-how-robinhood-s-plan-to-bring-stocks-onchain-has-evolved]. TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro (01:36) What feels materially different from the last cycle (02:08) What RedStone does: oracles, risk ratings, and the institutional intelligence layer (03:13) Where oracle demand is highest right now: NAV feeds and RWAs as collateral (04:21) How Credora's risk ratings help institutions compare vaults yielding the same returns (05:16) DeFi exploits and how RWAs with transfer agents offer a safety net (07:27) Balancing speed and safety: co-creating solutions with institutions (08:49) What's coming in the next 6-18 months (10:12) Why vaults are gaining traction as streamlined fund infrastructure (12:12) Where institutional capital is being deployed today: money markets, stablecoins, and private credit (14:14) Tracking 800+ tokenized asset and what surprised him (16:01) Crypto native vs traditional institutions: the split in tokenization adoption (17:11) Buy, build, or lease: how institutions are choosing their tokenization infrastructure (20:31) What real institutional adoption looks like: full lifecycle onchain (22:10) Why collateral is the new conversation, not just tokenization for its own sake (24:40) Final advice to get educated and get on board ESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ [https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ] Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141] Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek [https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek] Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens [https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens] Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/ [https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/] Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.