Stop Chasing Efficiency: A Marketing Leader's Guide to Real Innovation w/Whitney Goldstein @ Gorilla Logic

How the Most Trusted Page on the Internet is Tackling AI w/ Jimmy Wales, Founder of Wikipedia

Wikipedia became one of the most visited websites on earth without ads, VC money, or a top-down editorial team. Jimmy Wales, co-founder of Wikipedia and author of The Seven Rules of Trust, joins the show to share what actually built that, and why the lessons apply far beyond a nonprofit encyclopedia. Key takeaways: * The accidental innovation advantage: The dot-com crash left Wikipedia with no money to hire moderators, forcing a community trust model that top-down platforms still can't replicate * Why Wikipedia survived what Stack Overflow didn't: Depth and interconnectedness protect against AI disruption. Transactional Q&A loses its reason to exist; rabbit holes don't * The trust-building power of the ask: Reader funding signals no conflict of interest, and donors become advocates * Making AI companies pay their fair share: 88 billion AI bot page views became the case for an enterprise API that makes AI companies fund the resource they're exploiting Resources:  * Get Jimmy’s new book The Seven Rules of Trust: A Blueprint for Building Things That Last: https://sites.prh.com/the-seven-rules-of-trust [https://sites.prh.com/the-seven-rules-of-trust]  * Follow Jimmy on Twitter: https://x.com/jimmy_wales [https://x.com/jimmy_wales]  * Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/]  * Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/ [https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/].  About Jimmy Wales: Jimmy Wales is an American-British Internet entrepreneur best known for founding Wikipedia.org in 2001, the Wikimedia Foundation in 2003, and Fandom in 2004. Today, Wikipedia and its sister projects are among the top-five most visited sites on the web. He holds finance degrees from Auburn University and the University of Alabama and was appointed a fellow of the Berkman Center for Internet & Society at Harvard Law School in 2005. His debut book, "The Seven Rules of Trust," was published by Bloomsbury and Crown Currency in October 2025. Wales has been recognized with the Time 100 Award, the World Economic Forum's "Young Global Leaders" designation, and the UNESCO Niels Bohr Medal. Timestamps: * 00:46 - Why trust (not traffic) is Wikipedia's real foundation * 07:47 - AI search and Wikipedia's 8% traffic drop * 17:44 - How the dot-com crash accidentally built a better Wikipedia * 30:19 - 88 billion AI bot views and making companies pay their fair share * 35:34 - Why editing Wikipedia backfires (and what actually works) * 48:47 - Where Wikipedia goes in the next 25 years

Guiding Buyers Through Year-Long Decisions: The Continuum Strategy w/B2B Strategy Consultant Ardath Albee

Personas have earned a bad reputation in B2B marketing—and for good reason. Most sit unused on hard drives, filled with irrelevant demographic data like "married with two kids, drives a Volvo." Ardath Albee, author of Digital Relevance and a pioneer in buyer persona development since 2000, explains why most personas fail and what actually makes them work. Key takeaways for marketing leaders: * Why 12 personas is too many: How to consolidate by focusing on roles (not titles) to focus your efforts. The questions framework: Why the most valuable part of a persona is the list of questions buyers need answered—and how to sequence them so one answer naturally prompts the next question. * Building the continuum: How to engage buyers across a year-long journey by mapping content from trigger event through implementation (including the challenges nobody wants to disclose). * Personal vs. personalized: Why "Hi [First Name]" is creepy and useless, while understanding context, stage, and challenges is actually personal. * AI for semantic connections: How Ardath uses AI for research and a new tool (VizX) to build the entity relationships that get you into AI knowledge graph. * If your personas are gathering dust—or if you're starting from scratch in 2026—this episode is your roadmap to building buyer understanding that actually drives content strategy, engagement, and revenue. Resources: See Ardath’s work and writings here: https://marketinginteractions.com/ [https://marketinginteractions.com/] Find Ardath on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ardathalbee/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/ardathalbee/] Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/] Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/. [https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/.] About Ardath Albee: Ardath brings over 30 years of business management and marketing experience to help B2B companies with complex sales use digital marketing strategy and compelling content to turn prospects into buyers. She’s a strategist, storyteller, speaker, blogger, teacher, and content geek who is obsessed with helping companies become so damn relevant that buyers can’t help but choose to become customers and, once a customer, making sure they’d never think of leaving. Ardath has written two books about her obsession, Digital Relevance and eMarketing Strategies for the Complex Sale. Timestamps: 00:25 - How fiction writing skills translate to building buyer personas 02:24 - Why most personas fail (and how to spot a bad one) 10:44 - What actually belongs in a B2B persona 14:32 - The continuum framework: guiding year-long buying journeys 25:38 - Making personas useful instead of shelf-ware 38:29 - Personal vs. personalization: the difference that matters

Stop Chasing Efficiency: A Marketing Leader's Guide to Real Innovation w/Whitney Goldstein @ Gorilla Logic

When Whitney joined Gorilla Logic a year ago, she inherited a team facing the same pressure every marketing organization feels right now: prove you're using AI or fall behind. But instead of chasing efficiency metrics, Whitney asked a harder question: "If we can't definitively say why it's making progress and showing up better and making incremental change that helps the bottom line, why are we doing it?" Her solution was to stop the daily AI scrambling. Give the team four dedicated hours every two weeks to explore, experiment, and learn—with zero pressure to show immediate ROI. In this episode, Whitney also shares hard-won lessons on leading teams through change, why "we're not saving lives" creates the psychological safety needed for innovation, and how to give team members space to bring their whole selves to work while still pushing for growth. If you're tired of AI adoption theater and want to build a marketing team that actually innovates (instead of just moving faster), this episode offers a refreshingly honest roadmap. Key takeaways for marketing leaders: * The Swiss Army Marketer philosophy: Why the shift from specialist to generalist is essential for career growth, and how leaders can create opportunities for team members to expand beyond their comfort zones * The contrarian positioning play: How Gorilla Logic differentiated itself by NOT jumping on the AI agent bandwagon, and why the market responded with relief instead of skepticism * Getting marketing back to the C-suite: The two fundamental things holding marketers back from board-level conversations—and how to bridge the gap between marketing metrics and business goals Resources:  GorillaLogic.com [http://gorillalogic.com]  Connect with Whitney on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/whitneygoldsteinmba/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/whitneygoldsteinmba/]  Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/]  Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/ [https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/].  About Whitney Goldstein: With nearly 10 years of marketing experience, Whitney’s strategic direction as a B2B Marketing leader encompasses mission, vision, and strategy. Currently, Whitney serves as Director of Marketing at Gorilla Logic.  Timestamps: 02:48 - Leading with truth and honesty when taking over a team 05:06 - The biggest mistakes marketing leaders make: moving too fast or too slow 13:38 - Why Gorilla Logic isn't "just another AI company" 18:46 - The dedicated exploration time approach: 4 hours every two weeks 35:20 - The Swiss Army Marketer: why specialists won't make it to the boardroom 43:50 - Creating space for teams: "This is PR, not ER"

AI Search: How to Measure Success in the Age of Zero-Clicks w/Mike Witham and Blake Nielson @ 97th Floor

Organic traffic is down. Click-through rates are dropping. And every marketer is panicking about whether their SEO strategy is dead. Mike Witham and Blake Nielson from 97th Floor's AI Task Force are here to set the record straight: 80% of what worked in SEO still works for AI search—but that 20% difference is critical. In this tactical breakdown, Mike and Blake share what they're seeing across dozens of client accounts as they test, measure, and optimize for the new reality of AI-powered search. Spoiler: if you're still only measuring organic traffic, you're missing the entire story. Key takeaways for marketers: * The new KPI framework: Why impression data, brand mentions, and citations matter more than organic traffic now—and how to track them in Google Search Console * The follow-up search strategy: How to identify and measure the branded queries that happen after someone reads about you in an AI overview (and why this is your new conversion path) * Topic clusters 2.0: Why the old hub-and-spoke model isn't enough—you need cohesive messaging across product pages, blog posts, comparison pages, AND social profiles for LLMs to validate your authority Resources:  - Request a free AI Search Audit: https://97thfloor.com/ai-audit/ [https://97thfloor.com/ai-audit/]  - Connect with Mike Witham on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-o-witham/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-o-witham/]  - Connect with Blake Nielson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blakejnielson/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/blakejnielson/]  - Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/]  - Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/ [https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/].  About Mike Witham: Mike Witham is the Head of Search at 97th Floor, where he has spent the past seven years leading SEO strategy and performance for enterprise and high-growth brands. Based in Lehi, UT, he specializes in building data-driven search campaigns that achieve bottom-line results for clients. With his ability to create holistic, full-funnel marketing campaigns, Mike helps teams turn organic search into a highly profitable, revenue-driving channel. About Blake Nielson: Blake Nielson is the Head of Accounts at 97th Floor, where he partners with enterprise and high-growth brands to turn organic search into a measurable revenue channel. With deep expertise in SEO and AI search, he helps clients translate complex shifts in the search landscape into clear business strategy. Blake specializes in building strong client relationships, aligning teams around growth goals, and making sure every campaign ties back to bottom-line results. Timestamps: 1:13 - AI search vs. SEO 5:22 - Measuring impact in the AI age 10:47 - Follow-up searches & Search Console 16:05 - Rethinking topic clusters 23:31 - Offsite strategy: Reddit, YouTube, LinkedIn 30:18 - Hot takes & schema markup experiment

Spotting the Wave: How to Build Before the Market Knows It Needs You w/Daniel Nissan @ Structured.ai

What does it take to build groundbreaking companies across three decades of tech evolution? Daniel Nissan, founder of Structured (formerly Structured Web), made the first internet phone call in 1993, launched the first nationwide grocery delivery service before Amazon, and is now rebuilding his 26-year-old platform from for the AI era. In this episode, Daniel shares hard-won lessons from the frontlines of innovation—from cold-emailing the CEO of FedEx to secure a nationwide delivery partnership, to navigating two major market crashes, to recognizing when "bolting on" AI isn't enough. Key takeaways for marketing leaders: * Why "AI-first" requires a complete rebuild: Learn the difference between bolting on AI features versus architecting for conversational interfaces from the ground up * Timing the market: Daniel's framework for knowing when to jump on emerging technology (even when it feels too early) * Building conviction in your team: How to rally skeptical teams around radical platform changes and get them to believe the impossible is possible Daniel also reveals his prediction for when AI will finally be able to generate human-approved marketing content at scale—and why the real transformation comes when AI moves from generative to agentic. If you're a marketing leader wondering how to think about AI beyond the hype, this conversation offers a rare perspective from someone who's successfully navigated multiple technology revolutions. Resources:  See what Daniel’s up to at https://structured.ai/ [https://structured.ai/].  Find Daniel Nissan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielnissan/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielnissan/]  Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/]  Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/ [https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/].  About Daniel Nissan: Daniel founded Structured in 1999 and leads the company’s strategic vision across marketing, engineering, and product development efforts. From 1996 to 1999, Daniel was the President and CEO of NetGrocer, which he led to be a highly recognized and established leader in the field of eCommerce. He served as a Vice President of Marketing for VocalTec Communications, Ltd. (VOCL) from 1993 to 1996. Part of the original VocalTec group that created the Internet Phone, Daniel was responsible for its breakthrough product concept, marketing, and strategy development. Timestamps: 04:27 - Why join a "stupid idea" startup 05:03 - Making the first VoIP call 51:20 - Traditional platforms vs AI conversation 52:38 - Agentic AI timeline 55:10 - Getting teams to believe 57:50 - The lamplighter analogy