Interview Series: Michael Ding on Estimating Work and Software Improvements

Marty's Prediction: The One Thing That Will Define the Best Landscaping Companies in Five Years

Upcoming Events: Join Us for a GLC Field Trip (Dayton, OH - Multiple Options in 2026!) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/glc-fall-field-trips] Level Up Your Sales Manager at Virtual Sales Manager Bootcamp (July 8-9, 2026) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/virtual-sales-manager-bootcamp] Connect with Fellow ACE Members at ACE Discovery (Tucson, AZ - November 17-20, 2026) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/ace-connect] Master Aspire Software at the GLC Aspire Workshop (Dayton, OH - August TBD & December 2-3, 2026) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/glc-aspire-workshop-landscape-software-training] Register for GROW! 2027 Annual Conference (Savannah, GA - February 17-19, 2027) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/about-grow] Episode #166 What will separate elite landscape companies over the next five years? In this episode, Marty Grunder shares why the future won’t belong to companies with the best trucks or biggest crews — it will belong to companies with the best operational intelligence. From AI and leadership systems to recurring revenue and client relationships, Marty breaks down the mindset shifts landscape leaders need to make now to stay ahead. BOBYARD [https://www.bobyard.com] is an AI-powered takeoff and estimating platform that automates the most time-consuming parts of bidding work. Contractors report up to 65% reduction in takeoff time and 3-5x more bids submitted per estimator. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ Leave a Review for the Grow Show! [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-grow-show/id1683205964] ️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️  Subscribe to Our Youtube Channel! [https://www.youtube.com/c/TheGrowGroup] Key Learnings Operational Intelligence Will Beat Equipment, Labor, and Design: The winning companies will turn their data, client relationships, and leadership systems into a scalable platform. They will know more, communicate faster, predict better, and execute more consistently than competitors. Traditional Competitive Advantages Are Becoming Commodities: Equipment is temporary. Labor is unstable. Design is replicable. Marketing is easier than ever with AI. A $2 million company can look like a $30 million company online. Execution consistency at scale is what separates elite operators now. Good Managers Make Good Decisions With Good Data: Operational intelligence means seeing your business in real time, not waiting until the end of the month. Connect your CRM, estimating, production, job costing, communication, and equipment into one operating rhythm. Watch the Five Signals: Margin drift, client friction, leadership health, capacity forecasting, and owner dependency. Elite companies track these in real time and make decisions before competitors even realize there is a problem. AI Is a Tool, Not the Answer: AI amplifies whatever system already exists. A disorganized company using AI just becomes more disorganized faster. The companies that benefit most already have the processes, standards, and clean data to plug it into. Bet on Recurring Revenue Ecosystems: The future winning company will behave more like a membership organization than a contractor. Focus on lifetime value, recurring services, add-ons, and advisory positions. Manage the entire outdoor experience year-round. Clients Do Business With You Because They Trust You: When Grunder surveyed clients 25 years ago, they did not lead with quality or creativity. They said they trust us. Operational excellence frees up time to spend with teams and clients, which is how trust gets built. The Best Companies Will Reduce Owner Dependency: Look at how many decisions require you, how many problems wait for you, how many relationships exist only because of you. Scalability depends on distributing leadership, not centralizing it. Reflection Questions 1. Do you have real-time job costing, or are you waiting until the end of the month, quarter, or year to find out what is working? 2. How many decisions in your business still require you personally? What would it take to reduce that number? 3. Are you selling one-off projects, or are you building recurring relationships around the lifetime value of a client? Additional Resources: BOBYARD [https://www.bobyard.com]  Aspire [https://www.youraspire.com/?utm_campaign=ga_br_al_brand_search_web_dem_exact_home&utm_medium=paid-search&utm_source=google&utm_term=aspire%20landscaping&utm_content=shd_test_dynt_dem_07172025_1&cid=701PM00000xXXZLYA4&utm_term=aspire%20landscaping&utm_campaign=ga_br_al_brand_search_web_dem_brand_CPC&utm_source=google&utm_medium=paid-search&hsa_acc=6234924545&hsa_cam=20348537411&hsa_grp=151852382620&hsa_ad=764457471967&hsa_src=g&hsa_tgt=kwd-465561275476&hsa_kw=aspire%20landscaping&hsa_mt=e&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_ver=3&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=20348537411&gbraid=0AAAAACs4TKNhCCUGHmIFAgHBIX-Sq_QpX&gclid=CjwKCAiAqprNBhB6EiwAMe3yhjVg1CQXwPCwt3VFpD_EbcAau_BnKyia5WAEj2XyNaCnKQ0-nWo77xoC3JIQAvD_BwE] ACE Peer Groups [https://www.growgroupinc.com/ace-peer-groups] Virtual Sales Bootcamp [https://www.growgroupinc.com/virtual-sales-bootcamp]   Grunder Landscaping Field Trips [https://www.growgroupinc.com/glc-fall-field-trips]   https://www.growgroupinc.com/grow-2025The Grow Group [https://www.growgroupinc.com/]    Grunder Landscaping [https://grunderlandscaping.com/]    Marty Grunder LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/martygrunder/]

Are You a Liar? The Lies That Get in the Way of Growth with Marty Grunder

Upcoming Events: Join Us for a GLC Field Trip (Dayton, OH - Multiple Options in 2026!) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/glc-fall-field-trips] Level Up Your Sales Manager at Virtual Sales Manager Bootcamp (July 8-9, 2026) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/virtual-sales-manager-bootcamp] Connect with Fellow ACE Members at ACE Discovery (Tucson, AZ - November 17-20, 2026) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/ace-connect] Master Aspire Software at the GLC Aspire Workshop (Dayton, OH - August TBD & December 2-3, 2026) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/glc-aspire-workshop-landscape-software-training] Register for GROW! 2027 Annual Conference (Savannah, GA - February 17-19, 2027) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/about-grow] Episode #165 In the 42 years that Grunder Landscaping Co. has been in business and the 30+ years Marty has been working with fellow landscape pros through The Grow Group, he's seen every excuse. Often the biggest thing standing in a team's way? Themselves and the lies they let become reality. In this episode Marty shares the common self-limiting things he hears, and how teams can move beyond this to be successful this year. BOBYARD [https://www.bobyard.com] is an AI-powered takeoff and estimating platform that automates the most time-consuming parts of bidding work. Contractors report up to 65% reduction in takeoff time and 3-5x more bids submitted per estimator. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ Leave a Review for the Grow Show! [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-grow-show/id1683205964] ️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️  Subscribe to Our Youtube Channel! [https://www.youtube.com/c/TheGrowGroup] Key Learnings Growth Is Not a Straight Line, It Is a Staircase: Growth stalls, plateaus, and sometimes looks like failure right before a breakthrough. Business growth is often delayed compensation for consistent effort. Most people quit because the timeline did not match what they imagined. The Hardest Thing for an Entrepreneur to Say Is I Need Help: Businesses do not scale through isolation. They scale through leverage: people, systems, partnerships, mentors, peer groups. Trying to do everything yourself eventually makes you the bottleneck. Growth Always Takes Longer and Costs More Than You Think: Marketing costs more. Hiring costs more. Mistakes cost more. What worked at $5K a month breaks at $50K. Scaling means rebuilding parts of the business over and over again. That is normal, not failure. Perfection Is Hesitation in Disguise: Ready, ready, ready, aim, aim, aim is not preparation. It is fear. Meanwhile someone less talented but more willing wins. Business rewards execution over perfection. You Were Not Good at This When You Started Either: If someone can do the task 80 percent as well as you, let them do it. Give your team a shot. They will learn from your mistakes and accelerate past where you started. Hard Work Alone Is Not a Growth Strategy: You can work 14 hours a day and stay stuck if your positioning is weak or your systems do not scale. The smarter you work, the luckier you get. Build a business where the right work compounds. More Customers Will Not Fix Broken Systems: Sometimes you do not need more traffic, you need more clarity. Better retention, better messaging, better pricing, better onboarding. Growth does not fix broken systems. It exposes them faster. The Finish Line Keeps Moving: Every new level brings new complexity. More revenue means more responsibility, more decisions, more pressure. You do not grow by reaching a level with no problems. You grow by becoming the person who can handle bigger ones. Reflection Questions 1. What is one belief about growth that you have been holding onto that might not actually be true? 2. Where in your business are you isolating yourself when you could be asking for help? 3. Are you working harder, or are you working smarter? What is the difference in your business right now? Resources Mentioned * The Grow Show #48: Tribute to Clay Mathile [https://the-grow-show-1.castos.com/episodes/dream-no-little-dream-1?_gl=1*1w6b63f*_gcl_au*MTQ5OTY2OTYyMC4xNzc4MDA2OTQ5] * Patrick Lencioni: Humble, Hungry, and Smart [https://www.tablegroup.com/product/ideal-team-player/?srsltid=AfmBOoo2t6aXk-5blLaqzq8djCcTCN8r8KtMQPo37RDEgJ-NG-y8K9ge] * ACE Peer Groups [https://www.growgroupinc.com/ace-peer-groups] * Grunder Landscaping Co. Field Trips [https://www.growgroupinc.com/glc-fall-field-trips] Additional Resources: BOBYARD [https://www.bobyard.com]  Aspire [https://www.youraspire.com/?utm_campaign=ga_br_al_brand_search_web_dem_exact_home&utm_medium=paid-search&utm_source=google&utm_term=aspire%20landscaping&utm_content=shd_test_dynt_dem_07172025_1&cid=701PM00000xXXZLYA4&utm_term=aspire%20landscaping&utm_campaign=ga_br_al_brand_search_web_dem_brand_CPC&utm_source=google&utm_medium=paid-search&hsa_acc=6234924545&hsa_cam=20348537411&hsa_grp=151852382620&hsa_ad=764457471967&hsa_src=g&hsa_tgt=kwd-465561275476&hsa_kw=aspire%20landscaping&hsa_mt=e&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_ver=3&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=20348537411&gbraid=0AAAAACs4TKNhCCUGHmIFAgHBIX-Sq_QpX&gclid=CjwKCAiAqprNBhB6EiwAMe3yhjVg1CQXwPCwt3VFpD_EbcAau_BnKyia5WAEj2XyNaCnKQ0-nWo77xoC3JIQAvD_BwE] ACE Peer Groups [https://www.growgroupinc.com/ace-peer-groups] Virtual Sales Bootcamp [https://www.growgroupinc.com/virtual-sales-bootcamp]   Grunder Landscaping Field Trips [https://www.growgroupinc.com/glc-fall-field-trips]   https://www.growgroupinc.com/grow-2025The Grow Group [https://www.growgroupinc.com/]    Grunder Landscaping [https://grunderlandscaping.com/]    Marty Grunder LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/martygrunder/]

Interview Series: Michael Ding on Estimating Work and Software Improvements

Upcoming Events: Sign Up for The Landscape Pro's Sales Training (Virtual - May 13-14, 2026) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/landscape-pros-sales-training] Join Us for a GLC Field Trip (Dayton, OH - Multiple Options in 2026!) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/glc-fall-field-trips] Level Up Your Sales Manager at Virtual Sales Manager Bootcamp (July 8-9, 2026) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/virtual-sales-manager-bootcamp] Connect with Fellow ACE Members at ACE Discovery (Tucson, AZ - November 17-20, 2026) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/ace-connect] Master Aspire Software at the GLC Aspire Workshop (Dayton, OH - August TBD & December 2-3, 2026) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/glc-aspire-workshop-landscape-software-training] Register for GROW! 2027 Annual Conference (Savannah, GA - February 17-19, 2027) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/about-grow] Episode #164  Meet Michael Ding, the brilliant young man behind the revolutionary BobYard bidding software! In this episode, Marty is joined by BobYard founder and CEO Michael Ding to discuss the inspiration behind their takeoff software and how it saves time for estimators and salespeople. They talk about the journey to create the tool, how systems can make estimates more consistent, and what teams can do to spend more time on the activities that actually drive value for companies. BOBYARD [https://www.bobyard.com] is an AI-powered takeoff and estimating platform that automates the most time-consuming parts of bidding work. Contractors report up to 65% reduction in takeoff time and 3-5x more bids submitted per estimator. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ Leave a Review for the Grow Show! [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-grow-show/id1683205964] ️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️  Subscribe to Our Youtube Channel! [https://www.youtube.com/c/TheGrowGroup] Key Learnings The Best Businesses Solve Hard Problems with No Shortcuts: If a market has a shortcut, everyone takes it and you end up competing on price. Pick problems where the only solution is the hard one. Then nobody can follow you without doing the hard work too. Estimators Should Sell, Not Click: Before BobYard, 50 percent of an estimator's day was spent clicking on screens doing takeoffs. Estimators are some of your most savvy people. Their job is to bring in money, not to count plants. An Order of Magnitude Better Changes the Conversation: A 10 percent improvement is a hard sell. A 10x or 100x improvement sells itself. BobYard cuts a 4-5 hour commercial takeoff down to 30-60 minutes. That is not marginal, that is transformational. Hire People Better Than the Average: Every new hire should be better than the previous one. It forces the existing team to grow into a new bar. The best hires shatter your expectations of what a great hire looks like. Ownership Means Other People Sleep Well: Define ownership by how easy everyone else can sleep at night knowing you are in charge of your area. If you are losing sleep over something, that is a sign someone needs clearer ownership of it. Trust and Ownership Are Two Sides of the Same Coin: If you do not trust someone, you will not give them ownership. If you do not give them ownership, they know you do not trust them. Great people want autonomy and partnership. Do Not Go Looking for Nails with a Hammer: Do not ask “where can we apply AI in our business?” Ask “where can we improve?” Then pick the right tool. Sometimes it is AI. Sometimes it is just better systems or a clearer SOP. Run a Real AB Test on Software Vendors: The best customers ab test products, run paid trials, build financial models for the ROI. Smaller companies often buy on emotion. The exercise of evaluating software forces you to actually understand your own business. Self-Reflection Is the Hardest Leadership Skill: It is hard to have people tell you the truth when they report to you. The best leaders build enough trust that their team will tell them when they are wrong. Reflection Questions 1. How much of your estimator's day is spent on actual selling versus clicking through takeoffs? What would it look like if that ratio flipped? 2. Where in your business are you taking the easy path because it is what everyone else does? What hard problem could you take on instead? 3. Who on your team has clear ownership of their area, and who is waiting on you to make every decision? Resources: BOBYARD [https://www.bobyard.com]  Aspire [https://www.youraspire.com/?utm_campaign=ga_br_al_brand_search_web_dem_exact_home&utm_medium=paid-search&utm_source=google&utm_term=aspire%20landscaping&utm_content=shd_test_dynt_dem_07172025_1&cid=701PM00000xXXZLYA4&utm_term=aspire%20landscaping&utm_campaign=ga_br_al_brand_search_web_dem_brand_CPC&utm_source=google&utm_medium=paid-search&hsa_acc=6234924545&hsa_cam=20348537411&hsa_grp=151852382620&hsa_ad=764457471967&hsa_src=g&hsa_tgt=kwd-465561275476&hsa_kw=aspire%20landscaping&hsa_mt=e&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_ver=3&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=20348537411&gbraid=0AAAAACs4TKNhCCUGHmIFAgHBIX-Sq_QpX&gclid=CjwKCAiAqprNBhB6EiwAMe3yhjVg1CQXwPCwt3VFpD_EbcAau_BnKyia5WAEj2XyNaCnKQ0-nWo77xoC3JIQAvD_BwE] ACE Peer Groups [https://www.growgroupinc.com/ace-peer-groups] Virtual Sales Bootcamp [https://www.growgroupinc.com/virtual-sales-bootcamp]   Grunder Landscaping Field Trips [https://www.growgroupinc.com/glc-fall-field-trips]   https://www.growgroupinc.com/grow-2025The Grow Group [https://www.growgroupinc.com/]    Grunder Landscaping [https://grunderlandscaping.com/]    Marty Grunder LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/martygrunder/]

Keeping a Clear Head: What to Do When You Feel Like All the Guns Are Pointed at You (And How to Win in the Process!)

Upcoming Events: Sign Up for The Landscape Pro's Sales Training (Virtual - May 13-14, 2026) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/landscape-pros-sales-training] Join Us for a GLC Field Trip (Dayton, OH - Multiple Options in 2026!) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/glc-fall-field-trips] Level Up Your Sales Manager at Virtual Sales Manager Bootcamp (July 8-9, 2026) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/virtual-sales-manager-bootcamp] Connect with Fellow ACE Members at ACE Discovery (Tucson, AZ - November 17-20, 2026) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/ace-connect] Master Aspire Software at the GLC Aspire Workshop (Dayton, OH - August TBD & December 2-3, 2026) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/glc-aspire-workshop-landscape-software-training] Register for GROW! 2027 Annual Conference (Savannah, GA - February 17-19, 2027) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/about-grow] Episode #163  We can't control other people, but we can control our own work, attitudes, and approach. When a client is upset, team members have disagreements, or a vendor drops the ball: the way you react matters. Keep your cool this spring with Marty's best tips for handling adversity, because we all know even the best plans sometimes go sideways. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ Leave a Review for the Grow Show! [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-grow-show/id1683205964] ️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️  Subscribe to Our Youtube Channel! [https://www.youtube.com/c/TheGrowGroup] Episode 100 with Rich Grunder [https://the-grow-show-1.castos.com/episodes/building-a-business-through-brotherhood-with-marty-rich-grunder?_gl=1*z41zrm*_gcl_au*NzU4NDY5MTE4LjE3NzcyMTgzNzUuOTk3ODc1NTM5LjE3Nzc2NjYyMjcuMTc3NzY2NjIyNw..] Key Learnings You Can Only Control Three Things: Your attitude, your effort, and your response. That is it. Everything else is out of your hands. Strong leaders pause and ask what is actually in their control before reacting. Ask the Right First Question: When something goes wrong, ask yourself what am I doing or not doing that is getting me the results I don't want. That is ownership. Reacting emotionally never solves the problem. Leaders Stabilize, They Do Not Escalate: If a client yells and you yell back, the situation gets worse. Leaders bring calm, clarity, and direction. They reduce tension instead of adding to it. A Growth Mindset Changes Everything: A fixed mindset says this should not be happening to me. A growth mindset says this is part of the process, what can we learn. Adversity is not the exception, it is the norm. Slow It Down Before You Respond: Not everything needs an immediate reaction. Saying let me think about that can completely change the outcome. Separate the issue from the emotion. Replace You Are Wrong with Help Me Understand: That one shift keeps disagreements productive instead of personal. It shows the other person you respect their perspective and want to work together. Focus on Solutions, Not Blame: Blame looks backward. Leaders look forward. The question is not who caused this, it is what is the next best step. Use Mistakes to Improve the System: Acknowledge the issue clearly. Take ownership where needed. Ask the team what we can do differently next time. Move forward quickly. Do not let mistakes linger or define the team. Clarity Beats Chaos: Even if you do not have all the answers, give direction. Your team is looking at you. If you need time, say so, but follow through. Silence creates uncertainty. Reflection Questions 1. The last time something went wrong in your business, did you react emotionally or pause and ask what was actually in your control? 2. When was the last time you did a real postmortem on a mistake, or did you just rush to fix it and move on? 3. How does your team see you handle pressure? Are they watching a leader who stabilizes problems, or one who escalates them?

Operations: The First Steps You Should Take on Every Installation | Marty Grunder & Jimmy Hendricks

In this episode, Marty Grunder sits down with Jimmy Hendricks, Senior Group Leader at Grunder Landscaping Company. Jimmy oversees the construction crews and shares the habits that separate great team leaders from average ones. From pre-planning the night before to walking the property before unloading a single tool, this episode breaks down what it takes to start every job on the right foot, finish at or under budget, and keep the client happy. BOBYARD [https://www.bobyard.com] is an AI-powered takeoff and estimating platform that automates the most time-consuming parts of bidding work. Contractors report up to 65% reduction in takeoff time and 3-5x more bids submitted per estimator. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ Leave a Review for the Grow Show! [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-grow-show/id1683205964] ️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️  Subscribe to Our Youtube Channel! [https://www.youtube.com/c/TheGrowGroup] Key Learnings Great Team Leaders Start with Pre-Planning: They review prints, read notes, confirm equipment, check permits, and verify the property is marked before they leave the day before. You cannot spend your entire day chasing the job if you want to make money. The Three O'Clock Call Sets Up Tomorrow: Team leaders report what they need for the next day. Group leaders meet to allocate equipment. If you wait until morning to figure this out, you are putting out fires. Knock on the Door Before You Unload a Single Tool: When you arrive on site, the team leader goes to the door first. Communicate that Grunder Landscaping is on site. Then walk the property and identify utilities, cable lines, and anything you could damage. Turn Wheels In and Get Cones Out Immediately: Safety is non-negotiable. This happens before anything else. You talk about it every day in the morning huddle so nobody forgets. Treat the Property Like It Is Your Own Home: Keep the site clean. Tarp concrete before rain. Put boards across sidewalks if you are crossing 50 times. Do not leave wheelbarrow stripes on the driveway. Smile When a Neighbor Approaches: If someone comes out upset, walk up to them smiling. It will change their attitude before they start yelling. This is trained behavior. Coach by Asking Questions, Not by Telling: When checking in with a team leader, ask them what they are doing tomorrow. Let them explain it. That is how you see if they actually read the notes or just scanned them. The Three Habits of a Great Team Leader: Pre-planning, coaching their team, and reviewing their own work. If they are not judging themselves and saying what did not look good today, they are not ready to lead. Reflection Questions: 1. How far in advance are your team leaders planning their work? The night before, or scrambling in the morning? 2. What does the first five minutes on a job site look like for your crews? Is there a consistent process? 3. Are your team leaders developing the people under them, or just fixing their mistakes? Resources: BOBYARD [https://www.bobyard.com]  Aspire [https://www.youraspire.com/?utm_campaign=ga_br_al_brand_search_web_dem_exact_home&utm_medium=paid-search&utm_source=google&utm_term=aspire%20landscaping&utm_content=shd_test_dynt_dem_07172025_1&cid=701PM00000xXXZLYA4&utm_term=aspire%20landscaping&utm_campaign=ga_br_al_brand_search_web_dem_brand_CPC&utm_source=google&utm_medium=paid-search&hsa_acc=6234924545&hsa_cam=20348537411&hsa_grp=151852382620&hsa_ad=764457471967&hsa_src=g&hsa_tgt=kwd-465561275476&hsa_kw=aspire%20landscaping&hsa_mt=e&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_ver=3&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=20348537411&gbraid=0AAAAACs4TKNhCCUGHmIFAgHBIX-Sq_QpX&gclid=CjwKCAiAqprNBhB6EiwAMe3yhjVg1CQXwPCwt3VFpD_EbcAau_BnKyia5WAEj2XyNaCnKQ0-nWo77xoC3JIQAvD_BwE] ACE Peer Groups [https://www.growgroupinc.com/ace-peer-groups] Virtual Sales Bootcamp [https://www.growgroupinc.com/virtual-sales-bootcamp]   Grunder Landscaping Field Trips [https://www.growgroupinc.com/glc-fall-field-trips]   https://www.growgroupinc.com/grow-2025The Grow Group [https://www.growgroupinc.com/]    Grunder Landscaping [https://grunderlandscaping.com/]    Marty Grunder LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/martygrunder/]