The Talent Tango

In this episode, Amir sits down with Greg Russell, VP of Talent Acquisition at CoverGenius, to unpack why talent acquisition should be treated like project management. They explore how applying frameworks like the project management triangle (scope, cost, time) can elevate recruiting conversations, drive better alignment, and ultimately improve hiring outcomes. From setting expectations with hiring managers to negotiating trade-offs, this episode reframes TA as a strategic, structured discipline—not just a reactive function. 🧠 Key Takeaways: * TA is not just sales—it’s strategic project management. Hiring is a major business investment and deserves the same rigor. * The PM Triangle applies directly to hiring. You can’t optimize for speed, cost, and quality all at once—there must be trade-offs. * TA professionals must own their expertise. Recruiters should feel empowered to push back, educate hiring managers, and protect process integrity. * Confidence and mindset matter. Viewing recruiting as a craft fosters pride, learning, and better long-term performance. * Borrowing language from other teams (like engineering) helps. Using PM frameworks and terminology earns credibility and promotes alignment. ⏱ Timestamped Highlights: * 00:59 – Introducing the idea: TA as project management. * 02:41 – Why each hire is a high-cost, long-term business investment. * 04:26 – The challenge of TA being undervalued or misunderstood. * 08:09 – Project management triangle: budget, scope, time trade-offs in hiring. * 11:39 – Lack of standardized PM methodology in TA—and why that should change. * 12:34 – Teaching hiring managers the trade-offs and setting expectations. * 14:38 – Using familiar frameworks (like Scrum) to align with engineers. * 16:22 – Why order-taking kills TA’s credibility—and how to avoid it. * 19:22 – TA is the expert in hiring—own that expertise in every room. * 25:44 – The "order at a restaurant" fallacy in hiring expectations. * 28:00 – Building recruiter confidence and pride in their craft. * 30:47 – Treating recruiting as a craft versus a job—why it matters for growth. 💬 Quote: “You are the expert in that room when it comes to hiring. Even if you’re sitting with the CTO—own your craft, set the expectations, and drive the project.”

In this episode, Amir sits down with Suzanne McGovern, Chief People Officer and HR veteran, to explore how the employee-employer relationship has fundamentally changed. From the aftermath of COVID-19 and rise of remote work to shifting generational expectations and the role of company culture, they dig into what leaders need to do to build trust, adapt to new work models, and attract talent in a post-pandemic world. 🔑 Key Takeaways: * The contract has changed: COVID-19 was a major inflection point, permanently altering what employees expect from work—especially around flexibility, autonomy, and trust. * Hybrid isn’t a mandate—it’s a design challenge: Simply calling people back to the office misses the point. Organizations must re-architect work to make in-person time intentional and meaningful. * Purpose beats perks: Employees don’t stay for snacks and ping-pong tables—they want to be part of a mission, do meaningful work, and grow as individuals. * Culture should attract and repel: Your values should be so real they naturally draw in the right people—and push away those who don’t align. 💬 Standout Quote: “When we transact, everyone loses. It's got to be more than a transaction. It has to be based on purpose or personal connection.” ⏱ Timestamped Highlights: * 00:24 – Intro: What this episode is about—employee-employer contract and trust post-COVID. * 01:00 – Suzanne’s Background: From IBM to Splunk to Ipsy—big to small org experience. * 02:10 – Defining the Contract: Goes beyond job descriptions—it's about trust and shared expectations. * 03:50 – COVID Changed Everything: Flexible work, layoffs, and remote expectations shifted the power balance. * 06:45 – Work Is Not About Snacks: Why people really come to work—and why “lazy remote workers” is a flawed narrative. * 09:00 – The Hybrid Conundrum: People want both flexibility and deep collaboration—how do we enable both? * 13:10 – The Trust Breakdown: Why both employers and employees are struggling to trust each other. * 16:25 – Reframing Return-to-Office: How empathy and mental health could have made RTO more productive. * 21:00 – Market Shift and Control: How layoffs and power shifts are reshaping employer behavior. * 24:00 – Gig Economy Impact: Employees now have alternatives—and they know it. * 27:30 – Making Work Appealing: Meeting different generations where they are with values, not just compensation. * 30:15 – Culture That Attracts and Repels: Values should be crystal clear—what you stand for and what you don’t.

In this episode, Brittany Blumenthal, VP of People at HiddenLayer, shares how early-stage startups can intentionally define and evolve their culture. She breaks down the challenges of working with strong founder imprints, the importance of documenting culture as a living contract, and how to build feedback loops that go both ways. If you're scaling a team and want culture to grow with it, this episode offers tactical insight and hard-earned lessons. 🔑 Key Takeaways: 1. Culture Starts With the Founder’s Imprint Founders often shape company culture unintentionally. People leaders must help them surface, reflect, and intentionally evolve that foundation. 2. Write It Down—Make Culture a Living Document You can't scale what’s vague. Culture should be defined, documented, and expected to evolve as the company grows. 3. Bi-Directional Feedback Is a Culture Keystone True culture thrives when feedback flows in both directions and employees feel safe to share how the company is doing—not just how they are doing. 4. You Have to Slow the Founder Down In early-stage companies, a big part of the People leader’s job is convincing founders to pause and co-invest in culture before it becomes reactive. ⏱️ Timestamped Highlights: * 00:23 – Intro: Defining culture at startups and reshaping founder imprint * 01:38 – Founders value culture—but need help operationalizing it * 03:38 – “How we want you to show up”: Culture as a two-way contract * 07:45 – When feedback loops are broken, culture fails * 09:50 – Making culture bi-directional and intentionally embedded * 12:20 – What to do when culture is fragmented or inconsistent * 14:35 – Getting founders to pause and participate in defining culture * 16:25 – Closing thoughts: Culture is how we succeed at scale 💬 Quote: “The best way to retain talent is to be very clear and very true about what it's like to work here—and write it down.”

In this episode of The Talent Tango, Amir sits down with Caitlin Kamm, Director of People Growth at Envoy, to unpack a real-world employer branding initiative tailored specifically for engineering talent. Caitlin walks through how her team developed a laser-focused EVP to support a return-to-office mandate—balancing culture, candidate persona, and business needs. From strategy to stakeholder alignment to creative execution, it’s a playbook for anyone in talent roles grappling with attracting high-caliber candidates in a hybrid world. 💡 Key Takeaways: 1. Start with specificity: Crafting an employer brand around a targeted persona—like engineers—yields clearer messaging and stronger impact. 2. Authenticity over perks: The EVP focused on purpose, innovation, and collaboration, deliberately leaving out compensation and benefits. 3. Match the medium to the message: They pivoted from real employee footage to an animated video to better reflect Envoy’s brand and voice. 4. Metrics with context: A 5% increase in offer acceptance was a win—but measuring deeper attribution requires embedding branding assets across the candidate journey. ⏱️ Timestamped Highlights: * 00:00 – Intro to Caitlin and episode scope * 01:01 – Defining employer branding at Envoy * 03:02 – Aligning brand with return-to-office policy * 07:24 – Why engineers were the initial focus * 10:07 – Communicating the 'why' of coming to the office * 12:55 – Making intentional branding choices * 14:24 – Measuring success: acceptance rates and Q1 plans * 17:01 – Applying a product mindset to employer branding * 19:56 – Lessons learned and the power of anchoring to the ideal candidate persona 💬 Quote to Highlight: "You have to treat the soft stuff like the hard stuff—when you bring rigor to planning and persona targeting, the strategy actually sticks." — Caitlin Kamm

In this episode of The Talent Tango, Amir Bormand is joined by Heather Cassar to unpack the nuances of giving and receiving feedback in the workplace. From real-time feedback practices to performance reviews, Heather shares practical tips on how to build trust, motivate teams, and make feedback a natural part of company culture—without making it awkward. Whether you're in HR, a people leader, or a manager navigating hybrid teams, this episode offers a human-centered approach to feedback that boosts both trust and performance. 🔑 Key Takeaways: * Feedback must be real-time, detailed, and actionable. Don’t wait until a performance review to deliver insights—timing builds trust. * Trust is the foundation. One-on-ones that include personal check-ins foster stronger feedback relationships. * Avoid the “big reveal.” Holding feedback until review season erodes trust and reduces opportunities for course correction. * Feedback culture isn’t top-down only. Tailor feedback strategies by department and encourage peer-to-peer feedback to scale trust. * It’s only as weird as you make it. Normalize feedback by using everyday tools like Slack and keeping the tone conversational. 🕒 Timestamped Highlights: * 00:23 – Introduction to Heather Cassar and the topic of feedback * 01:17 – Heather’s 3 principles of effective feedback: timing, balance, and actionability * 05:10 – How personal connection in 1:1s builds trust for better feedback reception * 06:59 – Checking perspective first: “Did you think the presentation went well?” * 09:25 – “It’s only as weird as you make it”—changing the perception of feedback * 12:32 – Aligning feedback with individual motivators for better outcomes * 14:30 – The problem with waiting for performance reviews to deliver feedback * 19:07 – Imprinting feedback into company culture across different functions * 21:46 – Feedback tied to business outcomes and inter-team trust * 24:22 – The “carrot vs stick” approach to feedback adoption * 27:23 – How to connect with Heather 💬 Memorable Quote: “Surprising people is the quickest way to degrade trust—and it’s really hard to come back from that.” – Heather Cassar