Agency and power in contemporary conflict imagery, photographing youth combatants in West Africa, and the Hetherington archives…with Katy Thornton

The War We See: Reflections & Unheard Moments

As this inaugural series of The War We See comes to a close, this episode offers a moment to pause and reflect. I look back on the conversations that have shaped this first series: the themes that emerged, the questions that still linger in mind, and what I’ve learned from listening closely to those documenting and studying the visuals of conflict. Alongside these reflections, I’m sharing three previously unheard snippets from past conversations - moments that didn’t make the original episodes but offer fresh insight, nuance, and perspective. These excerpts deepen the stories the podcast has been exploring and highlight the complexity at the heart of how we understand war through its imagery.   The War We See will be going on a brief hiatus before returning for a brand new series featuring new guests and exciting new conversations. Thank you for listening, sharing, and engaging so thoughtfully with this first chapter. The conversation is far from over, and I look forward to returning soon with new voices and new stories.

Artistic resistance and the visuality of aerial imperial violence …with David Birkin (Part Two)

This episode is the second half of my fascinating conversation with David Birkin, artist, writer, and Senior Lecturer in Photography at the London College of Communication (University of the Arts London). In Part II, we discuss Visible Justice, the wonderful transdisciplinary network David and his colleague Max Houghton co-founded in 2018 at the University of the Arts London. The Visible Justice research hub brings together practitioners and thinkers from across art, activism, journalism, photography, film, writing, and human rights law who engage critically with the relationship between visual culture and social justice, creating spaces for collaboration beyond disciplinary boundaries. We also talk about David’s selected three images, drawn from his doctoral research as well more recent imagery that has resonated powerfully with him. As with the previous episode, the themes of imperial violence and visual resistance continue to dominate our conversation, with David’s unique and refreshing perspectives offering a powerfully hopeful conclusion to the discussion. Visible Justice: https://www.visible-justice.org [https://www.visible-justice.org/] David’s website: https://lnkd.in/eqavBv9Q [https://lnkd.in/eqavBv9Q]   Note: This conversation was recorded before the ceasefire in Gaza in October 2025. However, it is important to point out that the ceasefire has done very little to ease the suffering of Palestinians, which continues largely unabated and without accountability.   Links to David’s selected photos: 1.     Photograph from the report of the damage done to the British Aerospace Hawk jet in 1996 by the Ploughshares Four (Seeds of Hope East Timor Ploughshares Group): https://for-peace.maydayrooms.org/seeds-of-hope-ploughshares/9/ [https://for-peace.maydayrooms.org/seeds-of-hope-ploughshares/9/] (see full collection for more photographs).   2.     David’s Instagram post with the video of a US military aircraft taking off from Kabul Airport, August 2021: https://www.instagram.com/p/CSqN-Ylo98s/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== [https://www.instagram.com/p/CSqN-Ylo98s/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==]   3.     Protesters demonstrate in support of 'Palestine Action', organised by the Defend Our Juries group, in front of the Mahatma Gandhi statue in London, July 5, 2025. Jeff Moore, AP: https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/people-take-part-in-a-protest-in-support-of-palestine-news-photo/2222966116

Artistic resistance and the visuality of aerial imperial violence …with David Birkin (Part One)

This is Part One of a very special two-part episode with David Birkin, artist, writer, Senior Lecturer in Photography at the London College of Communication (University of the Arts London) and currently, a Visiting Fellow in Art History at the University of Cambridge. David is known for a wide-ranging body of photography-led installations and large-scale visual performances that confront state violence and imperial power, while also enacting forms of creative resistance to them. In a conversation that is as emotionally resonant as it is captivating, we explore his practice and the questions that shape it: how images circulate power, how visual culture sustains imperial violence, and how art can intervene in these processes. We also discuss his ongoing doctoral research into histories of resistance and disarmament in the British imperial context — what he brilliantly describes as tracing “the history of the imperial through the lens of the aerial” — and consider its urgent relevance today, amid the genocide in Gaza and ongoing violence elsewhere in the world. David is a true creative, a very exciting scholar, and a committed advocate for social justice, whose work reminds us that images of war are never neutral and that visual representations of violence are always bound up with questions of power, responsibility, and justice.   Part Two is out next week, featuring a discussion of David’s three selected images.   David’s website: https://www.davidbirkin.net [https://www.davidbirkin.net/]   Notes 1. This conversation was recorded before the ceasefire in Gaza in October 2025.  2. David's selected images will be discussed in Part Two of this conversation, posted next week, so the images will be linked then.

Agency and power in contemporary conflict imagery, photographing youth combatants in West Africa, and the Hetherington archives…with Katy Thornton

This week, I’m joined by fellow Imperial War Museum (IWM) doctoral researcher Katy Thornton (King’s College London), whose research uses the photojournalist Tim Hetherington’s archives at the IWM to examine the fascinating power dynamics between photographers, their subjects, and contemporary culture. Using her own background as a youth worker and academic grounding as a sociologist, Katy explores the intricate relationship between the photographer and the photographed within the context of youth combatants in West Africa between 1989 and 2003. In this evocative and stimulating conversation, we discuss her incredibly nuanced approach to a deeply complex subject, Hetherington’s own remarkable legacy, and the importance of acknowledging the role that power, perception, and agency play in what the camera captures of war.   Katy’s doctoral research: https://www.iwm.org.uk/research/doctoral-awards/students-alumni/katy-thornton [https://www.iwm.org.uk/research/doctoral-awards/students-alumni/katy-thornton] Links to Katy’s selected photographs   1.     A LURD combatant, and member of the AA (Anti-Aircraft) brigade, in an exchange with his girlfriend during the LURD advance on the capital Monrovia. June 2003: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205738356 [https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205738356]   2.     The anti-Gaddafi uprising and Civil War in Libya, 2011:  https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/contemporary-conflict/tim-hetherington   3.     Near the port of Greenville: A fisherman sails past one of the many shipwrecks scattered along Liberia's coastline. September 2005: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205738530 [https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205738530]

Photographing and filming war, bearing witness to human stories from the frontlines, and revisiting the Bosnian War 30 years on with “Unconquered: Goražde City of Heroes”…with Fiona Lloyd-Davies

In this episode, I’m joined by award-winning documentary filmmaker and photojournalist Fiona Lloyd-Davies, whose fearless storytelling has placed her on the frontlines of global conflict for more than three decades. From the besieged towns of Bosnia to the Democratic Republic of Congo, Fiona has used her camera to expose human rights abuses and amplify voices that often go unheard. We explore her remarkable career, from her early work during the Bosnian war including work on the BAFTA-winning The Unforgiving, to her own extraordinary filmmaking, such as Ordered to Rape, which revealed the use of sexual violence as a weapon of war in Congo, and her work on the groundbreaking Baghdad blogger series with Salam Pax. Fiona reflects on the ethical responsibility of witnessing, documenting, and framing war, and on filming stories of immense trauma with compassion and integrity. We also discuss her upcoming project UNCONQUERED: Goražde City of Heroes, and her BBC Radio 4 Archive on 4programme, which revisits one of the least-known sieges of the Bosnian war through powerful first-hand testimony. BBC Radio 4 (Archive on 4) “The Battle of the Drina”, now available on BBC Sounds: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002nh76 Fiona’s production company: https://www.studio9films.co.uk/about-1 [https://www.studio9films.co.uk/about-1] Links to Fiona's selected photographs  1. Stanley Spencer's 'Travoys Arriving with Wounded at a Dressing Station at Smol, Macedonia, September 1916’: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2f/Spencer%2C_Stanley_%28Sir%29_%28RA%29_-_Travoys_Arriving_with_Wounded_at_a_Dressing-Station_at_Smol%2C_Macedonia%2C_September_1916_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg 2. Serbian Epics (1992): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UTmiTsmHQ4 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UTmiTsmHQ4] (the gun sequence from 34:15 - 34:24) 3. Lee Miller's "Fall of the Citadel, St. Malo (1944): https://rps.org/media/5p0fb2sq/copyright_leemillerarchives_fall_of_the_citadel-_aerial_bombardment_st_malo_france_1944-lr.jpg?mode=max&width=1520&rnd=133687995851170000 [https://rps.org/media/5p0fb2sq/copyright_leemillerarchives_fall_of_the_citadel-_aerial_bombardment_st_malo_france_1944-lr.jpg?mode=max&width=1520&rnd=133687995851170000] 4. Portrait of Ancilla, Fiona Lloyd-Davies: https://sotonac-my.sharepoint.com/:w:/g/personal/ha4g21_soton_ac_uk/IQCKEwiCWic0TpAM-IuDfrrMAUWQV1SH93Uiw-TIRlMUbU4?e=atH7Ci 5. [Bonus] An elderly woman pushing her belongings through the rubble of Kravice village, eastern Bosnia, January 1993, Fiona Lloyd-Davies: https://sotonac-my.sharepoint.com/:w:/g/personal/ha4g21_soton_ac_uk/IQCKEwiCWic0TpAM-IuDfrrMAUWQV1SH93Uiw-TIRlMUbU4?e=atH7Ci