“Bashing Trump” vs “Sanewashing Trump”: An Interview with Issac Saul of Tangle News

Trump’s Tax Letter & The 1776 Fund: Republican vs Democrat

In this episode, we tackle the shocking details behind Donald Trump’s latest legal maneuver. Nicole and Jolene break down why Trump suddenly dropped his massive $10 billion lawsuit against the IRS and immediately replaced it with the "$1.776 Billion Anti-Weaponization Fund." We take a look past the patriotic branding to reveal why this massive proposal has absolutely no legal safeguards. We break down the glaring conflict of interest at the center of the fund, including a quiet provision drafted by Trump's personal attorney and acting Attorney General, Todd Blanche, that effectively excuses Trump and his family businesses from federal tax investigations. We look at the actual numbers, including the family’s massive, active trading in stocks and cryptocurrency and ask a question that should bother voters on both sides of the aisle: where is the accountability? We also get into a broader, heavy reality that goes way beyond the headlines: political exhaustion. We look at how low primary voter turnouts allow extreme voices to take control, and how the media keeps us distracted with petty arguments while regular people face massive global and economic whiplash from skyrocketed grocery bills to merchant marine sailors stranded without power in a war zone. Finally, we talk about escaping the constant tribalism, breaking out of the "bubble of shame," and what it actually takes to start talking to each other like grown-ups again. Questions Covered in This Episode: * What is the $1.776 Billion Anti-Weaponization Fund? * Why did Donald Trump drop his IRS lawsuit? * What does Todd Blanche's tax letter mean for the Trump family businesses? * Why are GOP Senators pushing back on Trump's new settlement announcement? * How does low primary voter turnout impact local elections? CHAPTER MARKERS: 00:00 - Introduction 00:39 - The $1.776 Billion Anti-Weaponization Fund explained 03:14 - Settling a $10B lawsuit: Typical Trump negotiations? 04:27 - 3,700 stocks, crypto millions, and the family tax exemption 05:15 - Todd Blanche and the total lack of independent accountability 05:40 - Nicole's theory: Is this a private army fund? 07:03 - GOP Senators say no mas: Ted Cruz’s podcast leak 08:13 - The 8% voter turnout reality in local primaries 11:35 - Legal perspective and dropping cases he can't win 14:00 - Decompiling immigration bills: Senate Republicans are furious 17:00 - Global whiplash: Iran war, high gas prices, and stranded sailors 18:39 - Are people just completely fed up with Trump? 21:37 - Why Democrats and Gen Z are also losing trust in government 24:02 - Fighting fire with fire: Nicole’s frustration with the Democrats 25:07 - Popping the "bubble of shame" and looking at Texas politics 26:24 - The State Fair turkey leg: Dissecting dumb political distraction tactics 29:26 - Would You Rather Join the Conversation: Are you feeling the same political exhaustion and whiplash from modern news cycles? Let us know your thoughts in the comments below and remember to pause and connect with the human on the other side of the screen. RESOURCES MENTIONED: Ted Cruz Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/chaos-in-dc-on-reconciliation-doj-judgment-fund-plus/id1495601614?i=1000769050505 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/chaos-in-dc-on-reconciliation-doj-judgment-fund-plus/id1495601614?i=1000769050505] https://www.nytimes.com/2026/05/29/us/politics/federal-judge-trump-fund.html?unlocked_article_code=1.mlA.Nhlk.t-wPONIlelQi&smid=url-share [https://www.nytimes.com/2026/05/29/us/politics/federal-judge-trump-fund.html?unlocked_article_code=1.mlA.Nhlk.t-wPONIlelQi&smid=url-share] https://www.wsj.com/politics/policy/trump-republican-congress-control-98a13bd9?mod=article_inline Our Website: https://www.wevegottotalk.com/ [https://www.wevegottotalk.com/] LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ [https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/] On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk [https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk] On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701] On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 [https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2] How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ [https://nicolefonarow.com/] How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/ [https://dibledough.com/]

“Bashing Trump” vs “Sanewashing Trump”: An Interview with Issac Saul of Tangle News

What happens when you try to tell the truth in a world that only wants team loyalty? In this episode, we talk with Isaac Saul, founder of Tangle, the independent, non-partisan politics newsletter that summarises the best arguments from the left and the right. Isaac wrote a “plea for help” email after conservatives accused Tangle of bashing Trump while liberals accused it of sanewashing Trump, often in response to the exact same newsletter. We take a look at why the current political division feels different now, and how the media ecosystem rewards outrage, certainty, and tribalism. Isaac breaks down why “picking a side” is often the most profitable model in modern media, and what it costs the rest of us, our relationships, our mental health, and our ability to talk to family and friends who disagree with us. We also get into something surprisingly powerful: language. Isaac explains how tiny word choices can trigger instant assumptions of political bias, and how Tangle created its own editorial standards to keep readers from rage-quitting before they even reach the arguments. Finally, we talk about whether we’ve hit “peak indecency,” and what might actually bring a decency comeback in politics and culture. CHAPTER MARKERS: 00:00 Introduction 00:21 Meet Isaac Saul (Tangle News Founder) 02:15 Why Political Polarisation Feels Worse Right Now 05:21 Media Incentives: Why Outrage and “Pick a Side” Content Wins 07:09 Toxic Comment Sections and Cancel Culture 12:24 Did COVID Accelerate Division? Doomscrolling, Isolation, and Social Media 19:16 Neutral Language in Journalism: Tangle’s Editorial Standards Explained 22:39 Why Polls Skew Left: Conservatives Less Likely to Answer Surveys 24:02 NPR / Public Radio Surge 26:54 Writing With Integrity: Staying Honest Without Feeding Tribalism 30:57 AI, Misinformation, and the Hope for a “Decency Comeback” in Politics 36:02 Would You Rather RESOURCES MENTIONED: This American Life Tangle Episode: https://www.thisamericanlife.org/845/a-small-thing?ref=readtangle.com [https://www.thisamericanlife.org/845/a-small-thing?ref=readtangle.com] Issac Saul with David French: https://youtu.be/fxAKXuvMXcw?si=FpOYfAVa2IdIMkaA [https://youtu.be/fxAKXuvMXcw?si=FpOYfAVa2IdIMkaA] Issac Saul TED Talk: https://youtu.be/543mYKKh1EE?si=-wUgGLuSZ1LK5ygI [https://youtu.be/543mYKKh1EE?si=-wUgGLuSZ1LK5ygI] GOOD FOR THE SOUL: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/45031831-one-long-river-of-song [https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/45031831-one-long-river-of-song] Our Website: * https://www.wevegottotalk.com/ [https://www.wevegottotalk.com/] LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ [https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/] On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk [https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk] On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701] On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 [https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2] How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ [https://nicolefonarow.com/] How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/ [https://dibledough.com/]

How Postpartum Medicaid Went From 60 Days to a Year in Wisconsin

Fourteen Wisconsinites from opposite sides of the abortion debate sat down together for a three-day Builders Movement Citizen Solutions session on abortion and family wellbeing. This wasn’t a panel or a debate for show. It was a practical, structured process with trained facilitators and a clear framework, designed to help people hear each other properly and figure out what could actually change in real life, not just online. What they landed on was surprisingly concrete: extending Medicaid postpartum coverage in Wisconsin from 60 days to a full year. In March 2026, the policy passed almost unanimously, and Governor Tony Evers signed it into law. This means more moms getting treatment for postpartum depression, more women getting care when something goes wrong after birth, and more families supported during the months when everything is raw, expensive, and exhausting. But the story behind that win is not tidy. One participant, Ali (a progressive Democrat and elected official in Madison), admitted she walked in suspicious, worried it would be conflict-as-entertainment. Kai, an independent who describes herself as a “world citizen,” trusted the referral and believed the process could work. Kateri, a Catholic who prefers “consistent life ethic,” feared being flattened into a stereotype, and she didn’t sugar-coat how hard it was to feel understood in a room full of strangers on a topic this loaded. This is the part we don’t talk about enough: real dialogue is uncomfortable, and “common ground” doesn’t magically appear because everyone’s being polite. It takes time, relationship, and a willingness to stay in the room when it gets tense. Still, this group proved something important, that even when people can’t agree on everything, they can sometimes agree on what families need, and push through the politics to get a real policy solution across the line. CHAPTER MARKERS: 00:00 Introduction 00:31 Builders Movement Intro 01:30 Meet The Participants 03:52 Ali Joins With Skepticism 05:47 Kai On Trust And Dialogue 07:21 Three Day Solution Session 11:12 Trauma And Finding Empathy 13:58 Relationship Building Debate 24:37 Men In The Room 25:59 Choosing Medicaid Extension 27:22 Wraparound Support Systems 30:12 Partisan Pushback and Perseverance 33:25 Backlash and Unfinished Work 36:08 Good for the Soul Picks RESOURCES MENTIONED: Builders Movement: https://buildersmovement.org/ [https://buildersmovement.org/] Citizen Solutions Wisconsin: http://citizensolutions.us/citizensolutions/wi [http://citizensolutions.us/citizensolutions/wi] GOOD FOR THE SOUL: Ali’s: My Friends by Friedrich Bachman https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/217163697-my-friends Kateri’s - East of Eden by John Steinbeck https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4406.East_of_Eden [https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4406.East_of_Eden] Kai’s - Hammersmith Odeon Concerts https://www.concertarchives.org/venues/hammersmith-odeon Our Website: * https://www.wevegottotalk.com/ [https://www.wevegottotalk.com/] LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ [https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/] On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk [https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk] On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701] On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 [https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2] How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ [https://nicolefonarow.com/] How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/ [https://dibledough.com/]

Builders, Not Dividers: Voting for Character Over Party

In a world that rewards outrage, it can feel safer to avoid politics, religion, and money altogether. But the silence doesn’t fix anything, it just pushes the tension into Facebook fights, family dinners, and comment sections where people forget there’s a real human on the other side. In this conversation with Stacy Blakeley, Executive Director of the Builders Movement, we talk about how “us vs them” thinking became normal, and why it’s keeping the thoughtful majority stuck on the sidelines. The Builders Movement is a citizen-first movement built to push back on the outrage industrial complex and rebuild civil dialogue in real life. Stacy explains why Builders isn’t a think tank with an agenda, it’s a movement that starts by listening, polling, and meeting people where they are, then creating guardrails so conversations don’t spiral into “everything is broken.” The goal is practical: get citizens back in the driver’s seat, and build solutions from common ground without pretending differences don’t exist. We also dig into Citizen Solutions, the Builders program that brings a carefully selected group of everyday people across race, income, and politics into a two-day, facilitated process to practice good conflict and find actionable policy solutions. Stacy shares what this looked like in Tennessee (including the documentary Tennessee 11) and in Wisconsin, where citizens helped drive legislation to extend postpartum Medicaid coverage, proof that the system can move when regular people stay in it long enough. Finally, we talk about the Builders mindset and the four C’s: curiosity, creativity, courage, and compassion. We unpack why people are often kinder in person than online, how algorithms fuel tribalism, and why the real problem isn’t “the other side,” it’s an incentive system that rewards extremes. If you’re tired of the circus and wondering what you can actually do, this is your reminder: small groups change the world, and it starts with staying human. CHAPTER MARKERS: 00:00 Friends Across Politics: Liberal vs Conservative civil discourse 01:08 What Is the Builders Movement? Ending “us vs them” political division 02:53 Fighting Outrage Culture: social media algorithms and the outrage economy 04:20 Citizen Solutions Explained: bipartisan dialogue that leads to real policy 05:26 Tennessee 11: guns, polarization, and finding common ground 08:11 Wisconsin Win: postpartum Medicaid extension (citizen-led legislation) 10:50 Texas Healthcare Solutions: affordability, access, and practical reform 13:29 Local vs National Impact: civic engagement that scales from communities 19:38 Builders Mindset: the Four C’s (curiosity, creativity, courage, compassion) 23:27 Rewarding Builders in Politics: voting for character over party 29:37 Builders Index + C4: rating candidates as Builder vs Divider 32:51 Voting Beyond Party: independents, open-minded voters, and reform 35:11 Broken Incentives: donors, PACs, lobbying power, and extremism 36:01 Citizen Solutions Hope: why everyday citizens can still change the system RESOURCES MENTIONED: Builders Movement: https://buildersmovement.org/ [https://buildersmovement.org/] Tennessee 11 Documentary Trailer: https://youtu.be/p-drQKzz2q0?si=ulCjPJeR5xHXtXLl [https://youtu.be/p-drQKzz2q0?si=ulCjPJeR5xHXtXLl] Bridge Grades: https://www.bridgegrades.org/ [https://www.bridgegrades.org/] Builders Texas Primary Campaign- Turn out or rollover: https://youtu.be/va4dmwxtqXE?si=JqNGa5KdokVFV9yh [https://youtu.be/va4dmwxtqXE?si=JqNGa5KdokVFV9yh] Ben Sasse 60 Minutes: https://youtu.be/dDveT8OesWA?si=-gfjZB6j7RHA-kn0 [https://youtu.be/dDveT8OesWA?si=-gfjZB6j7RHA-kn0] Political Integrity Substack: https://politicalintegrity.us/ [https://politicalintegrity.us/] Good for the Soul: Raye “Joy”: https://youtu.be/taHYtEGxLnw?si=NpLgzbEJTMapPfMU [https://youtu.be/taHYtEGxLnw?si=NpLgzbEJTMapPfMU] and the live performance: https://youtu.be/2scS3s_I050?si=bkp9PLF9Mz6AilmR [https://youtu.be/2scS3s_I050?si=bkp9PLF9Mz6AilmR] Our Website: * https://www.wevegottotalk.com/ [https://www.wevegottotalk.com/] LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ [https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/] On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk [https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk] On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701] On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 [https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2] How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ [https://nicolefonarow.com/] How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/ [https://dibledough.com/]

“Us vs Them” Has Taken Over American Politics

Politics has started to feel like a loyalty test, not a conversation. Say one thing that is not perfectly on script for your “side” and people act like you have betrayed the whole team. The problem is not that we disagree. The problem is that we have built a culture where curiosity looks weak, changing your mind feels dangerous, and being loud gets rewarded. A lot of the nastiness is being fuelled by the “our side versus their side” mindset. Headlines get treated like weapons. People post for points, not understanding. Social media makes it easy to react to a clip, assume the worst, and decide you already know what kind of person someone is. In real life, when you are face to face, it is harder to hate someone you actually know. Labels do not help either. “Liberal.” “Conservative.” “Christian.” “Atheist.” They can help you find community, but they can also trap you there. Once you pick a label, you are expected to perform it perfectly. And if you leave room for nuance, you risk being shamed, bullied, or written off. That is how we end up with more certainty and less thinking. So where do we go from here? Smaller than people want. It starts with the next comment you almost leave, the next assumption you almost make, the next time you feel that rush of righteousness. Pause. Ask a question instead of throwing a punch. And if you can, get to know someone in real life who thinks differently from you, not to convert them, just to remember what it feels like to talk to a person instead of a stereotype. CHAPTER MARKERS: 00:00 Welcome + “Where Do We Go From Here?” in American Politics 00:48 The Rage Economy: Why Politics Feels Mean and Exhausting 01:33 Changing Your Mind: Why Admitting You’re Wrong Feels Risky 02:18 “Our Side Has to Win”: The Us vs Them Mindset 03:28 Trump Voters, Regret, and the Two-Choices Reality 04:56 The Exhausted Middle: Extremes on Both Sides and Political Fatigue 05:05 Social Media Algorithms: Why Outrage Gets Rewarded 08:04 Comment Sections vs Real Life 10:16 Belonging and Identity 15:33 Media Trust + Isaac Saul (Tangle) and the Cost of Being Fair 17:38 Staying Curious When It’s Uncomfortable 19:00 Accountability: Me Too, Complicity, and Protecting the Tribe 24:16 Menopause for President 26:16 The Enemies Project: Seeing Each Other’s Humanity Again 31:59 Wrap Up + Subscribe and Share RESOURCES MENTIONED: Eric Swallwell video: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DXKWBRbFH76/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link [https://www.instagram.com/reel/DXKWBRbFH76/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link] Good for the Soul: The Enemies Project https://www.instagram.com/reel/DXKWBRbFH76/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link [https://www.instagram.com/reel/DXKWBRbFH76/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link] LINKS: On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ [https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/] On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk [https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk] On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701] On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2 [https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2] Our Website: https://www.wevegottotalk.com/ [https://www.wevegottotalk.com/] How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/ [https://nicolefonarow.com/] How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/ [https://dibledough.com/]