Interesting Times with Ross Douthat

How has the war in Gaza reverberated throughout American politics? Opinion columnist Bret Stephens and Ross Douthat debate the implications of the Israel-Gaza conflict on antisemitism, the morality of war, and why “Monday morning quarterbacking” is not productive when taking stock of military actions in the Middle East. * 01:56 Israel actions in Gaza * 04:39 The moral baseline * 13:31 What is the end game? * 15:52 The role of Israel in American politics * 23:44 Can you criticize Israel without becoming antisemetic?  * 36:05 Does Israel have obligations to the Jewish diaspora? (A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. > Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Happy Independence Day! We’ll be back next week with a new episode, but today we’re sharing the episode that started us on the path to “Interesting Times.” Ross Douthat talks to Reihan Salam, the president of the Manhattan Institute for Policy Research. Together they wrote the book “Grand New Party: How Republicans Can Win the Working Class and Save the American Dream [https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/42417/grand-new-party-by-ross-douthat-and-reihan-salam/].” They review their George W. Bush-era prescriptions for the Republican Party to reclaim the working-class vote and the ways they were right (and wrong) about building a new Republican majority. * 03:47 George W. Bush era * 12:06 Rise and fall of the Tea Party * 18:19 Trump’s 2016 “blood and guts” message * 28:11 Trump’s effect on the right and left * 35:48 Trump’s first term economic agenda * 39:30 Elon Musk vs JD Vance * 46:50 Imagining an activist, conservative government (A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. > Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

The billionaire Peter Thiel is unimpressed with our pace of innovation. In this episode, he critiques artificial intelligence, longevity science and space travel — and warns that our lack of progress could lead to catastrophic outcomes, including the emergence of the Antichrist. * 01:19 - What does stagnation mean in 2025? * 06:30 - Peter Thiel's case for more progress and innovation * 11:30 - Does taking more scientific risk include life extension? * 15:14 - Peter Thiel's political history * 18:34 - Did Trump live up to Thiel's expectations? * 25:10 - Does Elon Musk still want to go to Mars? * 28:09 - How Thiel defines A.I. * 33:20 - Is A.I. Too Modest An Ambition? * 35:23 - How will the human race evolve? Should it? * 41:53 - Thiel's critique of Silicon Valley * 43:40 - Who is the real Antichrist? (A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. > Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Is the key to freedom a life without Amazon? This week, Ross talks to Lina Khan, former Chair of the Federal Trade Commission about how unchecked corporate power has limited choice in our day-to-day lives, and how her fight against Big Tech unites left and right. * 02:41 - What’s wrong with big business? * 09:27 - The political costs of corporate consolidation * 11:39 - How the 2008 financial crisis shaped Lina Khan's philosophy * 17:49 - The antitrust consensus from Reagan to Obama * 21:54 - How the left and right align against big business  * 26:12 - Khan's wins and losses at the FTC  * 36:53 - Is the Trump administration embracing or rejecting Khan's vision? * 42:32 - Is anti-monopoly policy the solution to our economic problems? * 48:38 - Can Big Tech be broken up? (A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)  Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. > Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Has immigration become the new litmus test for the Republican Party? In this episode, Ross talks to Matthew Continetti, the author of “The Right: The Hundred-Year War for American Conservatism,” about the party’s shifting coalition, the defining role of immigration and how today’s right echoes its past. * 01:50 - What the Elon experiment (and fallout) tells us about the Republican Party * 06:55 - Is there a tech right beyond DOGE? * 10:09 - Is the “new right” really all that new? * 18:16 - Where Trump’s agenda fits within the larger conservative story * 25:16 - “Immigration is the biggest issue of our time” * 28:39 - How border control will define conservatism around the world * 34:05 - Is Silicon Valley out of step with Trump's immigration crackdown? * 39:43 - Will Trump's ideas outlast Trump? (A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)  Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. > Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.